Getting players with the right mentality

Roboc7

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Despite ruthlessly ripping players from the squad who don't have the correct mentality or quality for United?

I think he's laid down quite a marker for the players, that you will be moved on if you don't fit in.
So ruthless he’ll welcome Sanchez back with open arms.
 

JPRouve

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De Gea was world class for us in several seasons.
What has that got to do with the right mentality? Most of the players mentioned have never been world class for a second.
 

Bilbo

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Sorry, the players mentalities don't matter if the manager himself lacks the right mentality. A Man United manager should not be playing cagey counter-attacking football 99% of the time. We could bring in the most mentally solid guys out there, if the manager keeps telling to play as though theyre afraid of losing, they'll be considered weak and deadwood within 1 season.
Seriously. Take a day off once in a while. Counter-attacking football is playing to the strengths of the squad that he has available to him. Its sensible management. Buying players with the right mentality and selling the rest is sensible management. As we start adding different types of player to this squad we will start to see the team move to a different style of football. Its not a difficult thing to understand.
 

AR87

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believer that Sancho will turn it around
So ruthless he’ll welcome Sanchez back with open arms.
Remember when he said Smalling was great, but then let him leave on loan?

Remember when he said Alexis was going to give us a boost last summer and got him out on loan?

Remember when he said Lukaku was a world class striker and sold him?

Actions speak louder than words. Saying Alexis is done at United serves no purpose, so he says some fluff about how he'll prove everybody wrong next year, and people take it as gospel instead of looking at his actual actions since he's come into the job.
 

fallengt

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Its extremely important imo and one of the main ingredients to how Fergie was so successful.

Of course players can improve their mentality and attitude with the right coaching and motivation, but you need a certain type of player and identifying those is half the job. Di Maria is prime example of a player who only came because of money. Get too many of those type of players and you will end up in trouble
SAF was the prime example what good leadership can bring to the table.
Most of our players dropped the balls when Fergie retired. I guess he always had some extra and could share it with everyone around him
 

Sylar

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Its important. But they also need top level coaching to take them to the next level.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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How is everyone experts on Brunos mentality suddenly?
He might just have joined for the cash.
 

Bilbo

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What has that got to do with the right mentality? Most of the players mentioned have never been world class for a second.
For me he burned his bridges when he allowed his agent to say what he said and did not publicly support this club. Usually I think footballers are best served saying as little as possible but in that case I believe a statement was required. None of us have any great faith that he wants to play for the club anymore, rightly or wrongly. For me that would be the separator and what puts Pogba into the bracket of players who we should be looking beyond. I'd love to be wrong about that though.
 

soapythecat

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It’s the first time the club has taken a real positive step in regards to recruitment since SAF left. I’d even question some of his latter signings in this respect.
Knock Ole as much as many do, but he is absolutely right about who or what we need to recruit IMO. Whether he gets his players is not down to him.
The players we have let go are all players many, many supporters wanted to see out of the door. I suspect Young was one of the few who really had United at heart but he engineered his move in the end.
Undoubtedly, we are heading in the right direction in recruitment.
 

Bilbo

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Remember when he said Smalling was great, but then let him leave on loan?

Remember when he said Alexis was going to give us a boost last summer and got him out on loan?

Remember when he said Lukaku was a world class striker and sold him?

Actions speak louder than words. Saying Alexis is done at United serves no purpose, so he says some fluff about how he'll prove everybody wrong next year, and people take it as gospel instead of looking at his actual actions since he's come into the job.
Scenario 1 - an offer from Inter or any other club for a player we seem to be desperate to get off of our wage bill

Scenario 2 - an offer from Inter or any other club for a player that we are looking to recall and integrate back into the squad after his loan ends

In the case of Sanchez I think we are unlikely to receive a fee and getting him off the books would be a good enough outcome, but I'm sure that in most circumstances the position we take from the two above will either help or hurt our negotiating position.
 

bond19821982

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If the player is from our academy, the attitude has always been top notch. Not saying there has been no exception, but its almost guaranteed.

I dont agree with the approach though. Pretty much all players want to be the best and win trophies. Do you think Pogba and Martial doesnt want to win trophies or doesnt have the hunger to succeed ?

Liverpool tried the same in 90s/2000 and what exactly did they achieve? This is just an excuse because we are unable to attract top players due to our shit management of the club- on and off field issues.
 

KristianMackle

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I think Pogba feeds on the quality around him. You can tell he enjoys exchanging passes with Martial. I think he'll enjoy himself a lot more with Bruno as well. Quality feeds on quality. This should help get his mind to where it needs to be, if it wasn't already.
 

Abizzz

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Ed should just keep the players at his place instead of a hotel while negotiating.

Whoever chases away the goons unprompted is a keeper.
 

JPRouve

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For me he burned his bridges when he allowed his agent to say what he said and did not publicly support this club. Usually I think footballers are best served saying as little as possible but in that case I believe a statement was required. None of us have any great faith that he wants to play for the club anymore, rightly or wrongly. For me that would be the separator and what puts Pogba into the bracket of players who we should be looking beyond. I'd love to be wrong about that though.
But this has nothing to do with the right mentality within the locker room, it's about your feeling as an outsider. De Gea is someone that also actively tried to leave the club and was sidelined when his head was somewhere else, he also started to totally lose focus at the end of last season when his future was being discussed behind the scene. Now maybe he is a leader behind the scene and a great model to follow but from the outside I don't see why he is at the top of the list and not Pogba or Martial who has always been challenged by Mourinho and always responded which is also more than you can say about half of the players on this list who have done nothing and have never been challenged, maybe they will show that they have the right attitude in the future but today, they have no business being listed, Greenwood being an example.
 

Gehrman

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We also need managers with right mentality. A lot of ex-united players say they didnt know fear until they worked under Fergie. Fergie was incredible in instlling the fear of failure.
 

romufc

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It’s the first time the club has taken a real positive step in regards to recruitment since SAF left. I’d even question some of his latter signings in this respect.
Knock Ole as much as many do, but he is absolutely right about who or what we need to recruit IMO. Whether he gets his players is not down to him.
The players we have let go are all players many, many supporters wanted to see out of the door. I suspect Young was one of the few who really had United at heart but he engineered his move in the end.
Undoubtedly, we are heading in the right direction in recruitment.
Indeed. We can be Ole in or out but if you are a real fan, you will understand what he is trying to do. Does he want new signings? ofcourse he does. But Ole is a United man, he will not want to spend £100m on Dybala knowing he is coming here for the money.

He will rather give the players who have United at heart a chance. What he has done this season is put faith in players. Martial, Lindelof, Fred, Rashford, Lingard, Perreira.

Some have rewarded his faith like Rashford and some have backfired like Lingard. But now we know Lingard and Perreira cannot do the job.

We are building something with a good foundation. We could easily have Maguire, Williams, AWB, Henderson, McTominay, Rashford, Martial, Bruno, Dalot, Fred, James together for 5/6 years and then add in real quality alongside them.

These players have seen the bad times, they will be hungry to succeed.
 

Dolf

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Despite ruthlessly ripping players from the squad who don't have the correct mentality or quality for United?

I think he's laid down quite a marker for the players, that you will be moved on if you don't fit in.
Exactly. It's possible that tactically he isn't good enough to be our manager but we should at the very least keep him around the club. He knows what kind of players we need and how the mentality should be. So far our tactic seemed to be to just buy the next big thing or the already established name but that changed completely when Ole came in. I can really see a positive change in the next few years when it comes to our squad. Now let's hope he can have them perform on the field.
 

sunama

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I think getting owners, sporting directors, and similar staff with the right mentality is equally just as important as the players and their mentality. Unless we get both sides of the coin singing from the same sheet, this club will continue to go nowhere fast.
Agreed.
Changes need to take place at the top.
Many people are singing the praises of our current batch of players, yet we just lost to Burnley and also got beat by LFC (who did not play well).
Until I start seeing actual results, with consistency, I'm doubtful if anything will improve and currently believe we are on a downward trend, where getting beat by LFC is seen as an "okay" result. Only 2 years ago we were in 2nd, so there has been a sharp decline.
 

sammsky1

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SAF was DoF, head of recruitment and coach all rolled into one. And because his tenure lasted so long, he was able to cumulatively build his knowledge and contacts of the entire global footballing industry, the workings of EPL and the club itself to an unparalleled level. Add to that the perfect working relationship with his CEO Gill, who himself through tenure had also gained vast knowledge, and so the culture of Manchester United was set. These two men were Manchester United. And they were both equally respected as the very best in the industry for their specific skills.

SAF built teams in his own image, and so one of his first non negotiable filters was the character and mentality of a prospective signing. He knew how to screen for such personalities through background checks via his vast network. So getting players with the right mentality was already inbuilt into the DNA of the club.

As soon as SAF/Gill leave, all of the above disappeared.

All with the benefit of hindsight, but as anyone qualified in change management would have predicted:

It was going to be impossible for Moyes/Woodward to seamlessly pick up the baton, let alone even know what the existing culture and habits of the club were. And LVG and Mourinho suffered for the same reasons. None truly knew there actual job description, and had different opinions on what the 'Manchester United mentality' was, if they cared at all. Certainly many of LVGs and Mourinho signings would have failed the 'SAF mentality test'.

With hindsight, its blatantly obvious that if the club wanted to continue with Fergusonian values, especially with regards to player mentality and character, they should have appointed a DoF who was inculcated in those values. And that person would likely have had to have worked under him; perhaps Brian McClair or Carlos Queiroz.

The one area where OGS's managerial appointment makes total sense is in context of the club decision to go back to Ferguson type values. That doesn't mean being stuck in the past: the right cultural values should be timeless and executable in different eras and contexts. Making sure players have insatiable desire to succeed, who hate losing, put team before self, and thrive under the greatest of pressure and scrutiny was a classic Fergusonian value. OGS knows better than most what these values feel like: he simply has to see if he can recognise the personality traits of ex team mates like Schiemical, Gary Neville, Rio, Vidic, Keane in his prospective recruits. Any new player must have this on top of the technical skills and physical ability. Im hoping Bruno has all of this in spades.
 
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Gehrman

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Indeed. We can be Ole in or out but if you are a real fan, you will understand what he is trying to do. Does he want new signings? ofcourse he does. But Ole is a United man, he will not want to spend £100m on Dybala knowing he is coming here for the money.

He will rather give the players who have United at heart a chance. What he has done this season is put faith in players. Martial, Lindelof, Fred, Rashford, Lingard, Perreira.

Some have rewarded his faith like Rashford and some have backfired like Lingard. But now we know Lingard and Perreira cannot do the job.

We are building something with a good foundation. We could easily have Maguire, Williams, AWB, Henderson, McTominay, Rashford, Martial, Bruno, Dalot, Fred, James together for 5/6 years and then add in real quality alongside them.

These players have seen the bad times, they will be hungry to succeed.
I'd freaking love to see Dybala as our nr 10 than lingaard.

Do you think David Silva, Aguero and Toure ever dreamed of playing for city?
 

sp_107

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How important is this in your opinion?

It seems with the signing of Bruno United are continuing to get players of a certain profile. They are young, hungry, want to play for United and have a bit of fire and bite about them. I know there's alot of negativity around the club but surely this is the right way to go moving forward as a decreased winning mentality and desire is something we have all seen disappear in recent times. Liverpool are a prime example of how that mentality can elevate players to another level and make a team function together.

Maguire, AWB, James and Bruno all fit the profile. Obviously there's continued work to do but if you look at our players, including those we have brought through, the theme is clear;

DDG
Williams
Maguire
AWB
Fred
Mctominay
Bruno
James
Rashford
Greenwood

The above all want to be here and are hungry to succeed. They just have that bit of something that means they'll bust their gut and do all they can on the pitch. It's subjective of course but that's my opinion. Then you have the likes of Lindelof, Shaw, Pogba, Martial. They make up the rest to a degree and need to show that fire to be here for me.

We are genuinely trying to build something and I'm positive about that. Plenty of work to do but I do think we are going after the right kind of player (and purging the squad of the older/wrong types).
Agreed to most of this and we can add Dalot/Lindelöf to this list.
We need to focus on keeping this core group of players and add more ambitious, hard working players in coming months.

Players like Soumare, Grealish and Werner are few names I can think of who are in their early 20's and wants to prove themselves at higher level.
 

Roboc7

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Remember when he said Smalling was great, but then let him leave on loan?

Remember when he said Alexis was going to give us a boost last summer and got him out on loan?

Remember when he said Lukaku was a world class striker and sold him?

Actions speak louder than words. Saying Alexis is done at United serves no purpose, so he says some fluff about how he'll prove everybody wrong next year, and people take it as gospel instead of looking at his actual actions since he's come into the job.
Perreira and Mata got new contracts, Jones And Rojo were both kept despite begin worse than Smalling.

Was that because of mentality or ability or simply because he had to get rid of a centre back and no one would take those two (Smalling also has desire to play football). Actions aren’t always driven by reasons people think or would like them to be.
 

Bilbo

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But this has nothing to do with the right mentality within the locker room, it's about your feeling as an outsider. De Gea is someone that also actively tried to leave the club and was sidelined when his head was somewhere else, he also started to totally lose focus at the end of last season when his future was being discussed behind the scene. Now maybe he is a leader behind the scene and a great model to follow but from the outside I don't see why he is at the top of the list and not Pogba or Martial who has always been challenged by Mourinho and always responded which is also more than you can say about half of the players on this list who have done nothing and have never been challenged, maybe they will show that they have the right attitude in the future but today, they have no business being listed, Greenwood being an example.
I fully agree, and we will never have any idea who has the right mentality within the locker room. We can only assume that the players staying or going are doing so because of what is happening inside those walls. De Gea had his moments, and if that happened now we might well cut our losses and go with Henderson or Romero.

I couldn't look at this squad now and pick out any individual as being a problem. My issue with Pogba is as I said mainly around his silence over his future and refusal to back the club when Raiola had his say. It only strengthens the general belief that he wants out, so we should give him what he wants.
 

Alabaster Codify7

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Seriously. Take a day off once in a while. Counter-attacking football is playing to the strengths of the squad that he has available to him. Its sensible management. Buying players with the right mentality and selling the rest is sensible management. As we start adding different types of player to this squad we will start to see the team move to a different style of football. Its not a difficult thing to understand.
Do you not see the silliness of this? You are making daily comments of the same nature, too - just positive ones. Take a day off, mate.
 

Hawks2008

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I think it's important but with most things intangible I feel it's importance is overstated. We lack quality more than anything, no amount of desire or hunger or whatever is going to make some of our wasters good players.
 

Bilbo

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Do you not see the silliness of this? You are making daily comments of the same nature, too - just positive ones. Take a day off, mate.
Do you not agree that a counter-attacking style of play (not that I think that this is the only string in our bow) is the best strategy for this group of players? How would you have us set-up - with this group of players?
 

romufc

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I'd freaking love to see Dybala as our nr 10 than lingaard.

Do you think David Silva, Aguero and Toure ever dreamed of playing for city?
There is a difference here.. Dybala does not want to come to United. He never did and if he did was for one reason only, the money. He would flip as soon as the things went south like Di Maria.

No, but Silva and Aguero were young and there was a plan put to them. We are new owners and want to build this club to become successful and we see you two to become legends. they would have put a business plan and for first few years they showed ambition to become successful. If the club didnt show any ambition, they would have left.

If you dont understand this, this is where the problem lies. We need to learn from mistakes made.

That is exactly how we got Pogba btw, he was promised a rebuild and to become the image of United's rebuild and this didn't happen.
 

youngrell

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Do you not agree that a counter-attacking style of play (not that I think that this is the only string in our bow) is the best strategy for this group of players? How would you have us set-up - with this group of players?
There's nothing wrong with counter attacking anyway, it is not a negative tactic and I'm sick of seeing it as a stick to beat the manager with.

It's not as if Ole has us camped on the edge of our box only attacking when there's clear opportunity. He wants us to win the ball all over and spring into action quickly from there.

This isn't aimed at you, obviously, just adding to your defence.
 

SAFMUTD

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I agree that mentality is key on any aspect of life, specially in sports.

I dont agree with the players you mention though, of course the youngsters are fired up to play thats natural, but the only one thats clearly a leader is McTominay. Williams always plays fired up but I’ve not seen enough of him to call him a leader, the same with Greenwood.

The other ones such Fred, AWB, James are hard working players but don't strike me as leaders, I can’t see any of them with the armband specially DDG everyone can see he lacks leadership is one of the things he’s most criticized about.

From the ones we’ve bought giving Fernandes as a done deal I think him and Maguire are the ones that strike me as having that leadership profile, regarding Rashford Im not too sure, he will definitely become a leader but I’m not sure if he’s ready yet.

This is all assuming you are referring to mentality as leadership and players that inspire others.
 

MikeKing

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I think it's important but with most things intangible I feel it's importance is overstated. We lack quality more than anything, no amount of desire or hunger or whatever is going to make some of our wasters good players.
Yeah, it can only take you so far, but that applies to quality as well. Quality will fluctuate like form, but if everyone has the right amount of desire, the function of a team will be consistent and yield better results over time. Liverpool and Leicester teams are good examples of this where everyones attitude is great the team quickly become greater than it's parts, but as you say you absolutely need quality players to make a real impact in this league.
 

SAFMUTD

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Sorry, the players mentalities don't matter if the manager himself lacks the right mentality. A Man United manager should not be playing cagey counter-attacking football 99% of the time. We could bring in the most mentally solid guys out there, if the manager keeps telling to play as though theyre afraid of losing, they'll be considered weak and deadwood within 1 season.
Dont worry he’ll be gone in the summer but most players will be here.
 

Roboc7

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Don't you remember him bigging Sanchez up regularly before sending him off to Inter? I wouldn't read too much into his comments yesterday.
I don’t read into anything to be honest. Ole selling players isn’t driving a cultural or mental reboot he’s simply having to sell before he can buy.
 

Rozay

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Mentality is a bit subjective. I think the most common criteria is sprinting frankly. Beyond that, fans know little.

A top player, one with genuinely special ability, should hopefully be determined to be a great player. The notion that players ‘really want to play for Manchester United’ is conveniently often aligned with players who can’t get into a better team than Manchester United. For a British player, if he was not a United fan, he’s more likely to have grown up hating us than anything else. The thing is, a player should be ambitious and want to go to the top, so if he played for Swansea, of course he should want to go to United. But that also depends on his options. Ramsey and Bale, when presented with an alternative superclub at the time, both went elsewhere. Choosing us over a move to Leeds or Newcastle proves nothing.

A player like Neymar is probably seen as uncommitted, in fact, I’ve read his name in this very thread as an example of a player to avoid. However, he is extremely committed to being a great player, and as a result never lets his team down for club or country. He can never be accused of ‘not playing’. He is protective enough of his own reputation for that. A club like Real or Barca would never say ‘we should stay away from a player like Neymar’. They would sign him, he will be great there, and win lots of trophies. This has nothing to do with any love or commitment to them. Neymar would leave Barcelona and sign for Madrid today. The point is, they match his ambitions.

When you aren’t a very good team it’s easy to view every top player as one to avoid. The likes of Neymar would be as happy to play for us as anyone else, if we were at the top of the game. Players who don’t have that option are happy to be here than at small and average clubs. It’s normal. There is little to suggest that Pogba hates United, as is often implied. He’s not even Latin and just doesn’t like the city or something. He considers it home. I’m sure if we were a stronger side he’d have no doubts. That problem will remain unless we just adopt a strategy of signing players who wouldn’t be wanted at better teams.
 

Gasolin

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100% and this is something Ole has been trying to do so I can only credit him for that. Some of those players now have a "swag", they want to fight. When it's clicking, it's going to be even more refreshing that the couple of times we've seen this season. Ole has reinstalled a mindset that if you're not good, you can be dropped. Regardless of your status.

Ole was a fantastic striker, he can teach a thing or two in that regard, regardless of what we think of him, there's no way our players don't see how good he is when he explains things in that regard at least. And mentality is critical for high performance. Ole coached Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez. Ronaldo said he was very good, Haaland said he was critical for his development (and many say Ole has improved his finishing), Rio as a player has said that Ole would be a top coach due to his great ideas about the game.

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/cristiano-ronaldo-man-united-solskjaer-174293

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c.../man-utd-solskjaer-ronaldo-ferdinand-15573447

You can all choose to deny it, but not everything is fake just because it doesn't suit your agenda.

Among the players listed in the OP, we can find Greenwood, Williams, Rashford... who have progressed without any doubt. Ole also has a reputation since his time at Molde to be able to change tactics successfully.

Let's talk about that care taker period that is dismissed as a manager bounce. Look at Arteta, Lundgberg or even Jose. How long is that manager bounce? Not much. During that time, Ole has asked the players to run MUCH more (no f****** comparison possible) and they managed to win a lot of games before the team ran out of steam, but why did the players accept or want HIM as a coach? It's because they believe in him. And that's only possible if the dude knows what he's talking about, whatever you think of him.

Now let's talk about another area that gets dismissed by a lot here because being a fan is not "enough" to manage United. Well, it may not be enough, but it better be a f******* requirement. Ole is a guy who will take the fall for the club if that helps the club to go back winning titles. His plans are certainly not 1 year, not even 3 years, it could be a 5 years, 10 years term. We signed players like Mejbri, who are seen as exceptional talent waiting to blossom.

It it said that all teams of all age within United are now playing a high energy 4 2 3 1 with a hard working 10. That's where Mejbri will fit, passing out and going forward. That's where Pogba was supposed to fit, but maybe we can adapt a bit more if Fernandes is around, and now that Pogba is used as a deep lying play maker a la France.

We did not rush Greenwood, even when Martial was out. Martial out made the team go completely South in term of results, but we did not put Greenwood there, we waited until Greenwood can at least provide a similar work rate to the other players.

And finally, those press conferences. Given the above, why do you care? Is it not obvious that Ole primary concern is to not put the house on fire and just keep things internally? You guys get all worked up by those quotes, those quotes are nothing. It's just a game at best. Ole is ruthless behind, there are numerous quotes about it. He is not going to do any of this s*** publicly, because he wants Manchester United to be a calm water. That works better when we keep winning, but just because we do not win doesn't mean that this should change.

Bonus: all those stories about the inability to break low blocks. This is documented, and often, I am surprised how people don't even look at those analysis done by many.

Initially, Ole plan was apparently to build a 4 2 3 1 around Pogba has a deep lying play maker with passes for the front strikers. Martial as a false 9, opening space for Rashford and the third player (James, Greenwood, Lingard). And it was working until we got this injury for Pogba.

So we copied the midfield of Liverpool, who is an uninspired non creative midfield only tasked to keep possession, block counter attacks and pass the ball wide. Until our best player comes back basically, hopefully soon. And we also copied something else from other teams that saw us now break better low blocks. Have you seen how often AWB was available wide in some of those games? And if counter attacks happen, who is tasked to stop it? This non creative midfield of ours. AWS going up means Fred is asked to cover behind, that sort of half space that exists. With Matic, we're doing things a little differently on the left, maybe due to his pace. Matic doesn't cover as a LB when Williams or Shaw move up. He stays in the middle, and it's Fred who goes in between the CB to allow for Maguire to cover for when the LB goes up (this is typical Jose btw, this move to put the CM/DM in between the CB to force a shape change).

This is a specific plan by design. We are asked to have our FB to push higher, and to force our forward line to get narrower and closer to the box, to the goal. All width and creativity are now coming from the full backs, until we can also add the natural creativity of our midfield, because unlike Liverpool, we have some creative midfield in the hospital. So we play now a system that is very similar to the one Klopp plays for sure. The success rate is lower because players are getting to it. But we will get there. AWB is only 21 and start showing promises going forward, he's already way better than anyone in 1 to 1 defense.

Rashford injured means that we put James on the left, which is better for him because he can be then attracted on his right foot and create space for the LB + allow AWB to play with a player who can give him space on the other side. That's good for us, that means he will improve his games. So here is an example of Ole changing his play to adapt to a freak situation. We should value that kind of adaptability as it's a sign we are in presence of a very astute manager.

Bonus2: Whenever I say 100%, I keep hearing Rashford saying it with his interviews and it cracks me up!
 
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