I think it's really important to keep saying, that the problem isn't over population. The problem is people wanting luxury goods and a throwaway culture, and aeroplanes and a globalised world.
Global Warming
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
- Start date
You count meat as a luxury good? Just curious, because that's the big sinner.
Yeah I forgot that one! In fact the whole industrialised farming can be terrible for the environment. As a vegetarian, I'm not sure what I count meat as.
But again, keeping the odd chicken isn't a problem. Industrialised meat production, is.
https://www.skepticalscience.com/how-much-meat-contribute-to-gw.html
No idea how correct that is, but we will roll with it.
Population will probably cap out around 12-14 billion people. If there are any further increases, it won't be because of parents have 7 children, it will be because people stop dying 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projections_of_population_growth
Yeah I forgot that one! In fact the whole industrialised farming can be terrible for the environment. As a vegetarian, I'm not sure what I count meat as.
But again, keeping the odd chicken isn't a problem. Industrialised meat production, is.
https://www.skepticalscience.com/how-much-meat-contribute-to-gw.html
No idea how correct that is, but we will roll with it.
Obviously I'm talking about industrialised consumption. If we all relied on the odd local farmer to have a steak every now and again, rather than meat being on the menu every day for virtually everyone, then it'd be an entirely different picture.
I'm not sure about the maths when it comes to the CO2 footprint, but even if you scale back throwaway culture and luxury, and airplane travel, you still can't exactly sustain 7,5 billion with anything like the footprint of a westerner. Most of the world have a far lower carbon footprint than the minorities in the developed world. How many people do you know who'd do away with their flatscreen, smart phone, laptop, gaming system, heating and air-conditioning, etc., and scale it back to the standards found in developing countries? Not a lot, whereas the developing world is quickly trying to get a chicken in every pot and a car in every garage.
We clearly could do with halting population growth.
Surely it's both of those things?
Indeed. But also, the problem isn't just that people have microwaves and tv's and flat screens... is that these are made half way across the world with little regard for the environment. If these were made in the UK, they would be made in far less environmentally damaging ways (because we don't want to spoil our own home!) That may sound slightly racist, but it should have some truth in it.
Population growth simply isn't the problem. Population growth is happening fastest in areas where there is abject poverty and who create very little green house gas.
The problem is every country catching up to the west's standards. If we think China are bad polluters now, wait until 1 billion people suddenly need a huge flat screen TV, a new car, a new iphone, etc.
It is. But people like to pretend that global warming is someone elses problem.
"The problem is Kaszakstan because of their growing population".
"The problem is China because they are the biggest polluters in the world".
No and no. Population will cap out around 12 bn, and all of that growth will be in the most poverty stricken areas. That hurts, but it's not the major increase.
What will hurt a lot more is the rest of the world catching up with the top 1bn people's standards of living.
It is. And both issues need to be addressed.
Population will probably cap out around 12-14 billion people. If there are any further increases, it won't be because of parents have 7 children, it will be because people stop dying
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projections_of_population_growth
It's crazy to think that if we continue as we are there could possibly be 12billion+ on this planet. It really depends what the ceiling is for a human life? Could 100 years old be the norm ?
Yes. We've already reached 70+ on a global level:
And most developed nations are at 80+ (skewed at the lower end because loads of people die in countries with extreme poverty, poor healthcare, famine, etc. - which drags the figure down):Worldwide, the average life expectancy at birth was 71.5 years (68 years and 4 months for males and 72 years and 8 months for females) over the period 2010–2015 according to United Nations World Population Prospects 2015 Revision.
Median life expectancy of 90-100 years in most developed countries is going to be inevitable by the end of the current century - and will likely plateau at that figure, unless there are significant advances in anti/reverse ageing technologies because better living conditions and healthcare (and even curing fatal diseases) will only take you so far:
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v538/n7624/full/nature19793.html?foxtrotcallback=true
It's remarkable just how huge of a source cow burps are for methane, not to mention the dead zones concentrated feeding operations create in seas (notoriously at the mouth of the Mississippi).Yeah I forgot that one! In fact the whole industrialised farming can be terrible for the environment. As a vegetarian, I'm not sure what I count meat as.
But again, keeping the odd chicken isn't a problem. Industrialised meat production, is.
https://www.skepticalscience.com/how-much-meat-contribute-to-gw.html
No idea how correct that is, but we will roll with it.
And given how much more intense of an effect methane has relative to CO2, it's not an insignificant contribution.
There were some parts of Italy where there were 50°c today. But hey, global warming doesn't exist!
Last edited:
Was reading today that by year 2100, there gonna be places in South Asia and India that won't be suitable for humans to live there anymore.
I have seen higher estimates. Even within this one, I would expect a significant portion of the deforestation number to be caused by newly cleared grazing land.
Yep, just saw it on the BBC. I also read this morning the mediterranean sea is gonna be full of jellyfishes in few years.
Have those parts of Italy ever hit 50 previously?
They are in Southern Italy and Emilia Romagna. No, never, albeit you know it is always hot in Southern Italy.
Get ready for Captain Birdseye Battered Man-O-War
Yes. In the Paleocene–Eocene Thermal Maximum ~50 million years ago - before the Antarctic Glaciation phase.
It's not working in Ireland yet
Wish it would
Wish it would
Ireland will get colder with climate change, not warmer. Along with most of Europe.
It is the hugely accelerating rate of change that is the biggest worry especially given the consequences so far.
Latest modelling suggests another 2 degrees is happening no matter what we do so as we are doing feck all it will be more than that.
And 2 degrees (which we will exceed soon) isn't where danger starts. It has already. 2 degrees was a convenient limit for climate accords to aim for that were allegedly vaguely achievable.
We aren't that far away from mass deaths in the hotter developing nations - once the wet bulb temperature gets up to 35 degrees for long periods thousands or more will die. Low nations are already in trouble and places like Bangladesh will be devastated with only a little more sea level rise.
Our complacency is bizarre.
Latest modelling suggests another 2 degrees is happening no matter what we do so as we are doing feck all it will be more than that.
And 2 degrees (which we will exceed soon) isn't where danger starts. It has already. 2 degrees was a convenient limit for climate accords to aim for that were allegedly vaguely achievable.
We aren't that far away from mass deaths in the hotter developing nations - once the wet bulb temperature gets up to 35 degrees for long periods thousands or more will die. Low nations are already in trouble and places like Bangladesh will be devastated with only a little more sea level rise.
Our complacency is bizarre.
Really?
While increased global temoeratures can cause more cloud cover which might slightly reduce temperature Ireland has experienced àt least 0.8 degrees rise in the last 100 years.
The northern half of the GBR is on its last legs already with a huge percentage of coral bleached or dead.
Here are some graphs showing the clear warming trend in the last 100 years in GB and Ireland
http://www.ukcip.org.uk/wp-content/PDFs/UKCP09_Trends.pdf
Whether or not that continues is another matter, but it certainly seems to be climbing along with the global trend - which makes sense as island nations!
Of course there are theories that jet streams will stop, or anything else, but right now it seems the general trend is up and up .
http://www.ukcip.org.uk/wp-content/PDFs/UKCP09_Trends.pdf
Whether or not that continues is another matter, but it certainly seems to be climbing along with the global trend - which makes sense as island nations!
Of course there are theories that jet streams will stop, or anything else, but right now it seems the general trend is up and up .
Read that a sort of Great Barrier Reef might be seen in the mediterranean sea sooner or later, as this sea is getting hotter and hotter.The northern half of the GBR is on its last legs already with a huge percentage of coral bleached or dead.
Eventually Europe will get colder because the gulf stream will no longer warm it like it does.
http://ocp.ldeo.columbia.edu/res/div/ocp/gs/
http://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2017/06/06/could-climate-change-shut-down-the-gulf-stream/
A slowing gulf stream might have an effect. It might keep Europe a bit cooler than it would otherwise be. In 100 years. Or 1000 years.
So eventually after we are all fecked by temoerature the gulf stream will beeak down causing further climate chaos. Great theory. I for one am reassured.
Doesn't the gulf stream cool us in summer and warm us in winter? So temperatures will swing further.
I'm not saying that Europe cooling is a good thing, in fact Europe cooling would be a very bad thing in certain parts where people already die yearly from the bitter winter. I'm not like that fecking flat earth nutter trying to deny or swing climate change.
Again, everything you are saying is rubbish
Is it, or are you just ignorant? Nah, it's rubbish, I know.
The BBC performing their public service of providing a platform for climate nutters, and literally spreading denialism on their website:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40889563
This is false…
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40889563
This is false…
This guy debunks climate skeptics
Quite interesting how these guys are complete charlatans