Pogba can play in a 2 man midfeild too along with carrick or herrera in a 4411. He played in 2 man mid entire 45 mins in second half without any fuss
Goal scoring is a serious problem.
- Thread starter Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
When is Jose going to look at the stats and see that we have drawn more games in the league than anyone and scored the fewest goals outside of the top 6, and then do something. Instead of sticking with the same old formation, the same old players. It's not working Jose
Miki Pogab Martial
Ibra
Miki Pogab Martial
Ibra
The formation isnt the problem. Its the finishing. 8.6% chance conversionn. Bottom of the big chance taking league table. That is shocking
I don't know what's going on. Whether it's pressure or mentality or just poor ability, our players are hopeless at scoring. It's not like last season where we'd create one decent chance a match, if we were lucky. We create chances and blow almost all of them. Absolutely infuriating. If it were FM I'd complain that the match engine was broken
Against Hull yes, because Hull were not actually interested in playing football. Against Liverpool or City it would be a very different story.
4-4-1-1 could work if Pogba was on the left, something like:
DDG
Valencia - Bailly - Rojo - Shaw
Mkhitaryan - Herrera - Carrick - Pogba
Mata/Martial
Ibrahimovic
Well We are not playing liverpool or city right now are we? We need points in smaller games first and teams can always be changed depending upon opposition because united squad is big enough and has enough depth to handle different systems. Also a 89 m pound man has to adjust and learn to adapt his game because of the needs of the team and he can do that when he works hard on it.
Playing ibra up top would defeat the purpose of playing a 4411 because it will ake o sense at all, the attacking point needs a fast paced direct player who can stretch the defense and get one on one with the keeper in a direct counterattacking move. and zlatan should be slotted at 10 as a second striker who's linking up abilities and goal scoring ability would make him perfect 10 . A 4411 would be something like this
DDG
AV - Billy- Rojo - Shaw
MkH - AH- Pogba- Martial/ lingard
Zlatan
Rashford/Martial
Or a 343
DDG
Bailly -- Smalling -- Rojo
AV-- AH--- Pogba--- Shaw/young
Mkh Zlatan Martial/Rashford
with both martial and mkh as inside forwards
I've posted in the match thread about it but the chances missed last night were awful. The worst being the chances for Mata, Rashford and Pogba.
I wonder which coach takes charge on the attacking training in the first team. Better sack him first before yourself get sacked, Jose!
Worst finishers in the league!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The state of our finishing makes me almost always ignore referee decisions or any other pathetic excuse people have lined up (e.g. the super goalie, just one of those days).
Said it last night and I still maintain it - the talent is blatantly there but the coaching must be fecking awful to have so many players lacking a clinical nature. The feck do they do in training?!
Said it last night and I still maintain it - the talent is blatantly there but the coaching must be fecking awful to have so many players lacking a clinical nature. The feck do they do in training?!
We've been crap at finishing for years now. Basically since Fergie left. It's like our new mantra
Yep, been pathetic for a while now. No incisive movement, no risks taken and absolutely criminal composure in a lot of one on ones. What this club has missed the last two years is Chicharito. Although his general play was average his movement around the box was world class and his finishing was on another planet compared to Rooney. I really believe that Chicharito would of been a guaranteed 15 points this season.
We really need a super sub at the club. Someone to come on and make some space in the last quarter of the match. We also need Herrera to improve his shooting, no exaggeration but I could get more on target then him. Unacceptable for a professional. Lampard was a great example of what can happen if you can just get that shot on target or at least in the vicinity of the goal, deflections and parries would give us a chance. Herrera can't even time a shot properly so he blasts it everywhere.
Sweet memories, 2012/13, when RVP scored 26 goals for United.
But I think our problem is bigger than "just" our strikers not scoring enough. Our corners/freekicks are not dangerous. Our shots from distance are not dangerous (or they are hitting the bar.) In ancient times, our defenders were able to score with the head after a corner. Hardly happens these days. Do we still get penalties? I think we got much more under Fergie, when we played quicker and more dynamic in the last third and in the box.
But I think our problem is bigger than "just" our strikers not scoring enough. Our corners/freekicks are not dangerous. Our shots from distance are not dangerous (or they are hitting the bar.) In ancient times, our defenders were able to score with the head after a corner. Hardly happens these days. Do we still get penalties? I think we got much more under Fergie, when we played quicker and more dynamic in the last third and in the box.
I remember the ball that came over Ibra's shoulder yesterday and he just helplessly missed it. Rvp would've scored it and he would've scored the chances Rooney and Ibra had (where they had to spin, Rooney missed it completely and Ibra hit it wide). None of our strikers are clinical tbh. Sad but true.
Various players around world football just need a foot inside the box and they will at least test the keeper but our strikers seem to need a lot of space and time to convert. I'm not sure about blaming the coaching because as a player you practice shooting on your own accord alot.
Various players around world football just need a foot inside the box and they will at least test the keeper but our strikers seem to need a lot of space and time to convert. I'm not sure about blaming the coaching because as a player you practice shooting on your own accord alot.
We've had 3 penalties all season. One against Southampton at home (Ibra scored) and two against Fenerbahce at home (Pogba and Martial scored). Fair to say we should have had more in the league, but we're still not dangerous enough to force opponents into fouling us in the box more.
I must admit, I was expecting about 5 half way line screamers from Pogba by this point in the season.
Shocking
And he was rubbish.
like most I agree its very frustrating the lack of goals we have scored compared to the big chances we have created in matches, its cost us far too many points but how is Mourinho to blame for this? we are playing attacking football and in some games we should have the game wrapped up but end up fecking drawing! he cant go on the pitch and put the ball into the net himself, some of the misses that would have won us matches like Rasfords yesterday and in previous games, Ibra has missed some serious opportunities as has the rest. At one point we had over 100 chances in like 4 games and we have the worst conversion rate in the league the only thing I blame Mourinho for is not busting someone's head wide open lol
Mourinho has been a massive improvement no one since chlsea has outplayed us and all should of been beat comfortably IMO
Mourinho has been a massive improvement no one since chlsea has outplayed us and all should of been beat comfortably IMO
Yes it is, Ibrahimovic has been better than I thought but he makes our football terrible. Limits our ability to create proper chances and make runs in behind. I'd be tempted to ship him and Rooney if we did manage to land Griezmann.
Signing Griezmann to play second fiddle to Ibrahimovic would be depressing as feck!
We should be playing with pace and creativity. Not Ibra and Rooney.
Martial-Griezmann-Mhki-Mata-Rashford should be our attack in rotation.
Signing Griezmann to play second fiddle to Ibrahimovic would be depressing as feck!
We should be playing with pace and creativity. Not Ibra and Rooney.
Martial-Griezmann-Mhki-Mata-Rashford should be our attack in rotation.
Worked so well vs Arsenal or when Ibra was rested in Europa. We need better experienced quality up top
A have heard some say we look better without Ibrahimovic and it's not that crazy. We miss having that person/ Rashford last season running in behind. With Ibra everything needs to be in front.
Would love to see Jose give Rashford a chance with Martial, Mata, Miki behind him.
Not only Ibra I've heard some suggest we look better without Pogba and sometimes it's true i never feel like we are in control of a game with him. We look a bit more solid without him sometimes.
I also don't think Herrera is as good as a lot of fans think he is.
Just once I'd like to see it.
We have, although I agree that it should have happened more often in some of the smaller games esp in Europa and league cup.
It hasn't exactly worked very well though thats the issue.
It's not suprising we don't score many goals.. We are to slow in our build up ...Mhki is far too inconsistent.Mata too slow
.Zlaton has an annoying tendency to be selfish and shot from impossible and at the worst time them for some unknown reason add he had played all round Europe insist on sticking his boot to head height every time a cross is played in
Martial n Rashford are too young and struggling for form .Rooney is a dead donkey and Bar Pogba and Fellaini we have no other goal threat elsewhere on the pitch whether it's midfield or defence noone else is capable of weighing in with goals
.Zlaton has an annoying tendency to be selfish and shot from impossible and at the worst time them for some unknown reason add he had played all round Europe insist on sticking his boot to head height every time a cross is played in
Martial n Rashford are too young and struggling for form .Rooney is a dead donkey and Bar Pogba and Fellaini we have no other goal threat elsewhere on the pitch whether it's midfield or defence noone else is capable of weighing in with goals
In the Moyes season, you just couldn't believe the results when looking at the team sheet.
It's getting a little like that at home in the league now. You just cannot believe our front 6 aren't scoring many!
.
It's getting a little like that at home in the league now. You just cannot believe our front 6 aren't scoring many!
.
Crap newspaper, but according to the Mail we've converted just 33 out of 391 chances in the Premier League this season.
Even if those numbers aren't precise, of the top 10 teams I'd bet Man united conversion percentage is probably the lowest. The team simply isn't accurate or clinical on it's goal shots, OR set pieces
Why are United struggling with goal scoring?
Jose played a similar set up at Chelsea and they smashed the goals in when they won the league. They only had Oscar in behind Costa too & as I recall Oscar was far from prolific that season.
Jose played a similar set up at Chelsea and they smashed the goals in when they won the league. They only had Oscar in behind Costa too & as I recall Oscar was far from prolific that season.
Zlatan and the formation built around him is the problem. Pogba's finishing is a huge issue
Big chances missed:
Zlatan 12 (top of PL. Next highest is Afobe of Bournemouth with 8)
Pogba 5
Lingard 3
Mata 3
Rashford 2
Rooney 2
https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/big_chance_missed
Conversion rate of non-penalty shots taken inside the area
Zlatan 10 goals from 65 non-penalty shots taken inside the area = 15%
Martial 2 from 10 = 20%
Rashford 3 from 19 = 15.7%
Pogba 3 from 32 = 9%
Mata 4 from 23 = 17%
Rooney 1 from 16 = 6%
Mkhitaryan 2 from 12 = 16.7%
Team stats for goals scored inside the area (our main problem. We are 9th, miles behind the top 5):
https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/att_ibox_goal
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Good post. It reminds me that despite his impressive goal record Zlatan's finishing is rather poor.
I would say we're missing defenders who are good in the air and are able to score goals from set pieces. Yes forwards and the midfield players are simply not scoring for one reason or the other but we also distinctively lack goal scoring defenders.
I'm talking players like Terry, Ramos or even Ivanovic. The current crop of "defenders" aren't good at either ends of the pitch and is something that needs to be looked in to.
I'm talking players like Terry, Ramos or even Ivanovic. The current crop of "defenders" aren't good at either ends of the pitch and is something that needs to be looked in to.
I'd say average rather than poor. But still, building your team around a static player is an interesting choice to say the least.
Here are the conversion rates for shots taken outside the area:
Zlatan 3 goals from 28 shots taken outside the area in the PL = 10.7%
Pogba 1 from 43 = 2%
Rooney 1 from 12 = 8%
No-one else has scored
Our 5 goals is joint 4th in the PL. Top is 7 goals (Burnley, Chelsea, Liverpool)
https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/att_obox_goal
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Hit the woodwork:
We are top with 16
Bournemouth 14
Man City 12
Spurs 12
Ars 11
Liv 11
median/mean both 8
https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/hit_woodwork
Pogba 5
Lingard 2
Bailly 1
Fellaini 1
Herrera 1
Zlatan 1
Martial 1
Mata 1
Mkh 1
Rashford 1
Rooney 1
We are top with 16
Bournemouth 14
Man City 12
Spurs 12
Ars 11
Liv 11
median/mean both 8
https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/hit_woodwork
Pogba 5
Lingard 2
Bailly 1
Fellaini 1
Herrera 1
Zlatan 1
Martial 1
Mata 1
Mkh 1
Rashford 1
Rooney 1
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Good post.
Ibrahimovic is good for goals on an individual level but he will only score 1 goal a game max. If we concede a poor goal (which we have at times this season) It's an equaliser to salvage a draw.
I think Ibrahimovic hinders those around him with his lack of pace. The football with him is going to be rigid and show.
Team goals would increase if we dropped him played Rashford front: with Martial, Mata, Mkhitaryan behind.
Some say Mata/Mhki are slow, which they are but we need them creatively for their passing and movement.
Think about this logically Mata /Mkhitaryan are players that need pace up front they want to releasing balls early to someone like Rashford to get in behind that would suit their game.
With Ibrahimovic they all have to adopt a different approach because Ibrahimovic is incredibly slow can't chase anything. If he can't get the ball he ends up dropping team which is exactly what Rooney does when he plays up front.
We need to look at other opinions. Zlatan is detrimental to our play, but if we dropped him I can see our movement up front improving and team goals increasing.
We are missing point blank chances, not sure what Jose can do about this at this stage.
Total nonsense anyone blaming tactics ,formation or selection, you cannot legislate for guys who are generally proven goal scorers missing chance upon chance. I do however have a problem with reverting to route one so early in games.
Chicharito was absolutely awesome. One of the highest shot conversion rates the prem has ever seen I believe. Can't believe we let him go for 7million or whatever it was.
Pogba is horrible when played as a 10, i.e in the last 4 games. Mata should be in there permanently.
Herrera is sometimes the only player on the team giving 100%. Which is why he's probably knackered by now
Awesome post. Explains what I was hinting at way better