Definitely. Having slept on it I have to say I'm still pissed off with the manner of it, but these things happen I suppose. It does seem we stumble whenever there's pressure on to take third or fourth, but equally there are tangible factors we can point to last night as to why it was difficult for us to hang on. I hope Shaw's is only a minor tweak as we could be fecked for left back options for the next game.
Going full defensive to keep the lead
- Thread starter Andycoleno9
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Yeah but Solskjaer isn’t allowed to do it because he doesn’t know what he’s doing apparently.
Yep, him and Pogba came off because they were tired and giving the ball away needlessly which was inviting Southampton on to us.
Ole tried to sure things up in midfield by retaining possession better, issue was that the players we have on the bench aren’t great when pressed.
We got fecked by a fluky corner while down to 10 men, you can name anyone of three players who should have dealt with it, it is what it is. Next game please
Don't see it as a problem. Of course the best thing to do is to extend the lead and widen the margin, everyone knows that. But it is easier said than done and it's not always possible to do so. There's nothing wrong trying to defend the lead, it's just that our defending isn't good enough. It's alright for Mourinho to park the bus, and it's alright for Ole to do the same.
We had more possession when Pogba & Bruno were on the pitch. They needed to be off due to fatigue, we had chances to finish the game before they were off. We could have finish it off and rest them comfortably.
Remember this is the same team that beat Pep, Lampard & Mourinho this season, this was never gonna be the total control or the same as our previous matches. You are only highlighting the last 20-25 minutes of the game not the entire game & clearly you got no idea how good & the way how they played.
There is a fine line between building up stamina and risking injury. Imagine our level of play if one of the key starters (which it seems is all 11 of them) gets injured
AWB needs work on the training field on heading and composure when in possession. He is usually doing better in the latter but the former has always been a problem for him. Most times he actively avoids headers and doesn't even challenge for the ball. I know he might be focusing on his strengths but a headed ball into a throw in is better than a sliding tackle that might: a) lead to a foul, b) disposes the opponent, c) go for a throw in
I said to the missus last night when Bruno was subbed off that it is a sub where the means justify the ends. Get the three points and nobody cares; concede and it will be on the manager.
I don't think you will ever see Bruno subbed off again with the game in the balance. If he's not the captain, he certainly plays like it. I do think that was a mistake. A second mistake was not getting further fresh legs with the fifth sub in the third set of subs. Ighalo would have been a big help to hold the ball up.
I don't think you will ever see Bruno subbed off again with the game in the balance. If he's not the captain, he certainly plays like it. I do think that was a mistake. A second mistake was not getting further fresh legs with the fifth sub in the third set of subs. Ighalo would have been a big help to hold the ball up.
That little twat was Micheal Obafemi mate, not Obafemi Martins
Does look a decent player though.
my mistake! For some reason though, Martin's just stuck in my head after he came on haha.There's no problem going defensive but we did it in a stupid way. We subbed off our 2 playmakers and ended the game with Scott-Fred-Matic midfield. It meant that if we conceded it's basically game over. Even if the goal came early, we would have had to go and attack with such midfield and no playmakers at all. It was all or burst and it backfired on us.
Fernandes should have stayed regardless of his form and us going defensive or not. Would have given Saints something to worry about even if they scored.
Arsenal prove it today. When you defend good enough you can see out the lead and hit them on the counter.
I’m sorry to keep pissing on your parade but this isn’t true. Arsenals game plan was to sit deep today and nick something. Quite a difference from having a 2-1 lead at home with better players, bigger squad depth and completely forfeiting possession.
Think of United Barca 2008 semi. We were clearly playing counter attacking football and had a game plan. Arsenals is somewhat similar. There are plenty of examples of the top of my head. Inter vs Barca comes to mind as well. Totally different to sitting back on a goal lead for the last 30 minutes.
Doesnt disprove the point that if you are setup well and can defend well you can defend a lead and offer a counter threat.
City have had multiple chances and missed them all. Riding on luck doesn't prove it to be a better way of playing.
No it exactly proves that if you set up well you’ve a decent chance of winning. But if you end up shitting your pants half way into the second half and invite pressure — you’ll get punished.
Arsenal sat back from the start and played 343. City also played right into their hands and were not clinical at all. City also don't have players to target with any of their aerial crosses.
The comparison of how Arsenal defended with 6, 7, 8 players throughout the game isn't comparable with United against Southampton who had to fashion their last gasp chance against 10 men and proper targets from a corner at the very last minute of injury time.
The comparison of how Arsenal defended with 6, 7, 8 players throughout the game isn't comparable with United against Southampton who had to fashion their last gasp chance against 10 men and proper targets from a corner at the very last minute of injury time.
It doesn't prove the latter. You can change tact in a game and shut-up shop if you setup to do it correctly.
However if you are not setup or able to defend well then yes inviting pressure can be fatal.
Nonsense. We had lot of chances in the last 30 minutes against Southampton to finish the game off, Rashford & Martial could easily made it to 3-1. Your memory was only referring to the last 10 minutes before injury time plus the injury time when we had 10 men.
Hate this mentality. We have shown that attack is the best form of defense. Well... possession. Those last ten minutes, holding on to a win would be much easier if we sat patiently passing the ball around in the other teams half. Now tired legs etc, you risk losing possession and getting hit on the break so I have no problem refreshing and strengthening to defend against counter attacks but sitting deep and parking the bus has never worked well for us.
I’ll reply to this tomorrow mate. I’m way too incapacitated right now.
I’ll reply to this tomorrow mate. I’m way too incapacitated right now.
Wonder how Arsenal fans respond to this tactic seeing as they've all taken so much joy in apparently always playing the game the 'right' way and being beautiful to watch. Now they're seeing actually being able to defend well is important and it's not all about scoring beautiful goals v Norwich.
Similar when we went to the Emirates a few years back and DDG was superman right ???
In the Palace game we continued to look for more goals after we took the lead, then there're de Gea's flying save on Milivojevic's free kick, Ayew's disallowed goal and McCarthy's long shot. Do you call that riding on luck? Thing is, you are always going to concede chances even if you try to dominate possession. Very few teams could actually retain the ball till full time without giving the ball away, certainly not us.
Yes and that was what took the pressure off in the final 10-15 minutes.
We had numberous games under Mourinho where we went 1-0 up then sat back and invited pressure, only to concede.
Letting the opposition have the ball allows them to grow into the game and gain confidence. Keeping it away from them and maintaining pressure is a much safer way to defend.
Put it this way, what's more likely to score a goal - the ball closer to your goal or further away?
It’s something Jose did regularly. Ole doesn’t seem to do it as much. He did it for the last 15 against Southampton & it backfired, but it’s something we did far more under Mourinho & van Gaal.
Ive never liked it. Inviting pressure boosts the other team when it isn’t necessary.
Ive never liked it. Inviting pressure boosts the other team when it isn’t necessary.
Some absolute classic replies on here
Simple fact is to beat a press you let them have the ball, that's what we did against Southampton, you play a bit more direct and hot on the counter.
Would have worked against Soton too had Williams not been forced off, that forced the defense into a reshuffle which led to a disorganised corner last minute.
This is exactly what arsenal have done last two games, play direct and let the opposition have the ball, City and Liverpool both press high, so let them have the ball and keep defensive shape, hit the channels early with the release ball.
It's not 'parking the bus', it's called having a plan b, something that both Liverpool and City could do with, both their plan A's didn't work against arsenal and they couldn't change things to make a difference.
I haven't seen United go full defensive under Ole this season, and I doubt we will.
Simple fact is to beat a press you let them have the ball, that's what we did against Southampton, you play a bit more direct and hot on the counter.
Would have worked against Soton too had Williams not been forced off, that forced the defense into a reshuffle which led to a disorganised corner last minute.
This is exactly what arsenal have done last two games, play direct and let the opposition have the ball, City and Liverpool both press high, so let them have the ball and keep defensive shape, hit the channels early with the release ball.
It's not 'parking the bus', it's called having a plan b, something that both Liverpool and City could do with, both their plan A's didn't work against arsenal and they couldn't change things to make a difference.
I haven't seen United go full defensive under Ole this season, and I doubt we will.
I just don't see our defenders having the concentration or mentality for it like a Vidic, Rio, Ramos, Terry, kompany, Godin has/had.
We also had numerous games under Mourinho where we went 1:0 up then sat back and invited pressure, and we successfully held onto the lead or even hit a few more on the counter, just like the Spurs vs Leicester game undergoing right now.