Graeme Sourness

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What does Souness actually offer as a pundit? Genuine question.

Irregardless of his probable racism and sexism, he just seems completely out of touch and pointless. It’s really odd that Sky or whoever deems him worthy of a no doubt handsome wage.

There must be so many bright, talented young pundits out there, seems a shame to instead employ the likes of Souness.
 

Vanrouge

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Why does this keep getting brought up. The man didn't rate Pogba, get over it. It has nothing to do with the colour of his skin.
I have heard Souness praising Kante to the heavens on numerous occasions. Isn't he black??

The fact is Pogba is one of the most underwhelming transfers in PL history and deserves all the criticism he gets.
I literally couldn't be less interested in arguing with someone who can't (or won't) see it.
 

Hughie77

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The cock has another sounding board now on talkshite , theres enough cocks on there already now they go and put another one on it, and maybe he's the king of them all.

Ffs UTD could sign the best players in the world the cock would still find a problem I bet he thinks Scholes, Giggs Becks , RVN Yorke Cole were all no good because they had better players in the side, give it a rest you doddery old cnut.
 

glasgow 21

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What does Souness actually offer as a pundit? Genuine question.

Irregardless of his probable racism and sexism, he just seems completely out of touch and pointless. It’s really odd that Sky or whoever deems him worthy of a no doubt handsome wage.

There must be so many bright, talented young pundits out there, seems a shame to instead employ the likes of Souness.
Well he is another pundit loving liverpool fan and big pals of Jim White from their Glasgow Rangers days there is your answer.
 

BerryBerryShrew

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Why does this keep getting brought up. The man didn't rate Pogba, get over it. It has nothing to do with the colour of his skin.
I have heard Souness praising Kante to the heavens on numerous occasions. Isn't he black??

The fact is Pogba is one of the most underwhelming transfers in PL history and deserves all the criticism he gets.
Agreed. Anyone who knows anything about Souness knows that he was incredibly progressive at a time where racism, homophobia and bigotry were the norm. The first black footballer to play for Liverpool used to get racist abuse from his own teammates as well as from the terraces and he wrote in his book that Souness was the only teammate who stuck up for him and took the others to task.
 

Tincanalley

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Agreed. Anyone who knows anything about Souness knows that he was incredibly progressive at a time where racism, homophobia and bigotry were the norm. The first black footballer to play for Liverpool used to get racist abuse from his own teammates as well as from the terraces and he wrote in his book that Souness was the only teammate who stuck up for him and took the others to task.
Fair play. Balanced post
 

Andrade

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Why does this keep getting brought up. The man didn't rate Pogba, get over it. It has nothing to do with the colour of his skin.
I have heard Souness praising Kante to the heavens on numerous occasions. Isn't he black??

The fact is Pogba is one of the most underwhelming transfers in PL history and deserves all the criticism he gets.
Yeah, that's not how racism works buddy.
 

Port Vale Devil

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Agreed. Anyone who knows anything about Souness knows that he was incredibly progressive at a time where racism, homophobia and bigotry were the norm. The first black footballer to play for Liverpool used to get racist abuse from his own teammates as well as from the terraces and he wrote in his book that Souness was the only teammate who stuck up for him and took the others to task.
Just googled the story, Tommy Smith seemed a piece of crap.

Making a statement by supporting the minority
Liverpool's first-ever black player, Howard Gayle recalled a harrowing tale of racism he suffered at Melwood at the hands of club legend Tommy Smith.
"In training, I received the ball, controlled it, and lashed a shot towards goal. Tommy Smith was on the other team and it hit him on the leg. It clearly stung and some of the other players started laughing. Tommy responded with a tirade of abuse. It was ‘black this, black that’.


"The place went quiet. Everybody could hear it, including the staff. He was a legend. I was a nothing. Nobody said a word.
"I’d had enough of him: this bitter old man. So I went over and squared up: nose to nose. I looked at him dead in the eye. “You know what, Tommy; one night you’ll be taking a piss at home and I’ll be there waiting for you with a baseball bat,” I said, calmly. “And then we’ll see what you’ve got to say.” I wanted to start a fight with him. And then he walked away.


"Graeme Souness was the only one that came over in the immediate aftermath. “Well done, Howard,” he said. “Tommy deserved that”. Graeme was a true leader."
To step up in defence of Gayle when no one else was doing the same, and to go against a legend that was Smith must have taken balls of steel - Souness had them.
As a senior member, Souness' support and those few words must have meant the world to Gayle, who was suffering as he was the first player of colour to play at Anfield, and some players could not accept that.
 

Tarrou

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Yeah, that's not how racism works buddy.
i always find it funny when people point out times people weren’t racist as if that means anything

It’s like a murder defence lawyer showing a video of his client walking into a Starbucks and saying look here.. my client clearly didnt murder his wife he can order coffee without killing anyone
 

Andrade

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Agreed. Anyone who knows anything about Souness knows that he was incredibly progressive at a time where racism, homophobia and bigotry were the norm. The first black footballer to play for Liverpool used to get racist abuse from his own teammates as well as from the terraces and he wrote in his book that Souness was the only teammate who stuck up for him and took the others to task.
Again, this doesn't mean that he is not racist. Ron Atkinson employed black players at a time when they were almost non-existent in the English game. But he was still a virulent racist, and we wouldn't have known that but for an accidental insight into his uncensored, off the record thoughts.

I don't know what is in Souness's heart but I'm seeing a lot of people defending him who don't actually understand how racism works. Just because you work with a black person or praise a (humble, self-effacing) black person, it doesn't mean that it's impossible for you to also hold racist views, especially about a flashy, flamboyant black person.
 

Andrade

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i always find it funny when people point out times people weren’t racist as if that means anything

It’s like a murder defence lawyer showing a video of his client walking into a Starbucks and saying look here.. my client clearly didnt murder his wife he can order coffee without killing anyone
Exactly. People really don't get it.
 

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Again, this doesn't mean that he is not racist. Ron Atkinson employed black players at a time when they were almost non-existent in the English game. But he was still a virulent racist, and we wouldn't have known that but for an accidental insight into his uncensored, off the record thoughts.

I don't know what is in Souness's heart but I'm seeing a lot of people defending him who don't actually understand how racism works. Just because you work with a black person or praise a (humble, self-effacing) black person, it doesn't mean that it's impossible for you to also hold racist views, especially about a flashy, flamboyant black person.
I think therein lies the issue with Souness. Kanté is inoffensive to casual racists, because he behaves how they believe a good, hard working black person should, whereas Pogba is the opposite. His over the top criticism of Pogba was very often rooted in nothing else than his unconscious bias - the past couple of years have warped people's minds on this matter, but Pogba was generally speaking ok at first for us, and Souness's was extremely vocal and critical towards him right from the start, in a pretty surprising and shocking way. There were often moments where his bile even surprised his co-pundits on air.

Anyway, people seem to believe that if you're not ideologically advocating for the deportation of all black people from the UK, and once said hello politely to a black person, you're not a racist, and won't understand the underlying issue with Souness, which is a bit sad. There's various shades of this, and the perverse nature of Souness's bias is a lot more common than people want to admit.
 

11101

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Souness just dislikes lazy players I would guess. No way he is racist he is just a bit of a dinosaur. This video sums up his feelings on racism.

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12012897/souness-i-am-questioning-myself
Laziness and flamboyance. He likes players who work hard and keep their heads down. Pogba is the opposite of that and virtually a figurehead for it with his dabbing, haircuts and assorted media circus. The same things that stopped our own fans ever warming to him. It's got nothing to do with his skin colour.
 

hellhunter

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Laziness and flamboyance. He likes players who work hard and keep their heads down. Pogba is the opposite of that and virtually a figurehead for it with his dabbing, haircuts and assorted media circus. The same things that stopped our own fans ever warming to him. It's got nothing to do with his skin colour.
And yet he seemingly doesn't like Casemiro
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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Why does this keep getting brought up. The man didn't rate Pogba, get over it. It has nothing to do with the colour of his skin.
I have heard Souness praising Kante to the heavens on numerous occasions. Isn't he black??

The fact is Pogba is one of the most underwhelming transfers in PL history and deserves all the criticism he gets.
Graeme, that you?
 

Old Ma Crow

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Casemiro runs a lot and gets stuck in. Souness is going to praise him through gritted(cosmetically treated) teeth.
 

11101

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And yet he seemingly doesn't like Casemiro
Yet loves Kante and Mane. Maybe, just maybe, it's something other than skin colour that rubs him up the wrong way?

Personally I think his problem is jealousy. He's a bitter old man who hates that the new breed of players make more money and have more fame in one season than he did in a career, whilst being less professional and less hard working than he was. Pogba is the extreme of that. Hes the football equivalent of a Surrey pensioner moaning about young people spending their money on Starbucks and Netflix.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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Yet loves Kante and Mane. Maybe, just maybe, it's something other than skin colour that rubs him up the wrong way?

Personally I think his problem is jealousy. He's a bitter old man who hates that the new breed of players make more money and have more fame in one season than he did in a career, whilst being less professional and less hard working than he was. Pogba is the extreme of that. Hes the football equivalent of a Surrey pensioner moaning about young people spending their money on Starbucks and Netflix.
The trouble with arguments like yours & the others that people make is that you use exceptions as the rule whilst, probably more importantly, you talk for Souness as if you know him personally & dismiss any possibility that something other than footballing ability played a role in his coverage of most illuminatingly Pogba.

I actually agree that he comes across at times as jealous of modern players, Kante & Mane are perceived as hard workers, bar the fact Mane played for Liverpool, his issues tend to come with flair players of a certain demographic.

I can’t tell you if Souness is a racist so why do so many posters want to tell others he certainly isn’t? Maybe, just maybe, you shouldn’t dismiss the possibility of it.

Too many posters read the word racism & think it’s made as a blanket statement about everything somebody does. The man sat next to an ex-female footballer & spouted ‘it’s a man’s game’, is it really that unbelievable that he’d have other blind spots about what he believes a [insert demographic here] footballer should be.
 

rimaldo

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he’s a definite racist. i had the misfortune of being on the same flight as him a few years ago. a black chap boarded the plane and souness refused to stand up and applaud like the rest of us.
 

GatoLoco

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he’s a definite racist. i had the misfortune of being on the same flight as him a few years ago. a black chap boarded the plane and souness refused to stand up and applaud like the rest of us.
What do you mean by boarding a plane? Getting on it to travel somewhere?
 

Andrade

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I think therein lies the issue with Souness. Kanté is inoffensive to casual racists, because he behaves how they believe a good, hard working black person should, whereas Pogba is the opposite. His over the top criticism of Pogba was very often rooted in nothing else than his unconscious bias - the past couple of years have warped people's minds on this matter, but Pogba was generally speaking ok at first for us, and Souness's was extremely vocal and critical towards him right from the start, in a pretty surprising and shocking way. There were often moments where his bile even surprised his co-pundits on air.

Anyway, people seem to believe that if you're not ideologically advocating for the deportation of all black people from the UK, and once said hello politely to a black person, you're not a racist, and won't understand the underlying issue with Souness, which is a bit sad. There's various shades of this, and the perverse nature of Souness's bias is a lot more common than people want to admit.
There's absolutely no reason for this agenda he has against Pogba. You don't like a player? Say so and keep it moving. Don't turn it into some ridiculous vendetta where you endlessly talk about him. That's not your job.
 

JB7

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The trouble with arguments like yours & the others that people make is that you use exceptions as the rule whilst, probably more importantly, you talk for Souness as if you know him personally & dismiss any possibility that something other than footballing ability played a role in his coverage of most illuminatingly Pogba.

I actually agree that he comes across at times as jealous of modern players, Kante & Mane are perceived as hard workers, bar the fact Mane played for Liverpool, his issues tend to come with flair players of a certain demographic.

I can’t tell you if Souness is a racist so why do so many posters want to tell others he certainly isn’t? Maybe, just maybe, you shouldn’t dismiss the possibility of it.

Too many posters read the word racism & think it’s made as a blanket statement about everything somebody does. The man sat next to an ex-female footballer & spouted ‘it’s a man’s game’, is it really that unbelievable that he’d have other blind spots about what he believes a [insert demographic here] footballer should be.
The problem with your argument is that in telling someone to not dismiss the possibility that he is a racist, you're largely dismissing the possibility that he isn't. It seems odd that you why would question why many posters say he isn't a racist, but not question the posters who say he definitely is.
 

Gio

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Agreed. Anyone who knows anything about Souness knows that he was incredibly progressive at a time where racism, homophobia and bigotry were the norm. The first black footballer to play for Liverpool used to get racist abuse from his own teammates as well as from the terraces and he wrote in his book that Souness was the only teammate who stuck up for him and took the others to task.
Aye. He's progressive on a range of equalities issues where football was stuck in the dark ages. Plenty of evidence we've put forward in this thread to demonstrate much of that.

Laziness and flamboyance. He likes players who work hard and keep their heads down. Pogba is the opposite of that and virtually a figurehead for it with his dabbing, haircuts and assorted media circus. The same things that stopped our own fans ever warming to him. It's got nothing to do with his skin colour.
True. And it's compounded by his experience as a central midfielder where such attributes are so damaging to your teams' chances of winning games. Again any assessment of his managerial track record backs this up. He fell out with countless players who were cocky and didn't knuckle down and get the basics right - the basics that professionals of his era valued. Players like Ally McCoist, David Dunn, Craig Bellamy.

There's absolutely no reason for this agenda he has against Pogba. You don't like a player? Say so and keep it moving. Don't turn it into some ridiculous vendetta where you endlessly talk about him. That's not your job.
It was his job though. Sky knew it generated massive traffic so rinsed-and-repeated it for years.
 

Fluctuation0161

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I think therein lies the issue with Souness. Kanté is inoffensive to casual racists, because he behaves how they believe a good, hard working black person should, whereas Pogba is the opposite. His over the top criticism of Pogba was very often rooted in nothing else than his unconscious bias - the past couple of years have warped people's minds on this matter, but Pogba was generally speaking ok at first for us, and Souness's was extremely vocal and critical towards him right from the start, in a pretty surprising and shocking way. There were often moments where his bile even surprised his co-pundits on air.

Anyway, people seem to believe that if you're not ideologically advocating for the deportation of all black people from the UK, and once said hello politely to a black person, you're not a racist, and won't understand the underlying issue with Souness, which is a bit sad. There's various shades of this, and the perverse nature of Souness's bias is a lot more common than people want to admit.
Yep.

Some just don't get it.
 

villain

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I think therein lies the issue with Souness. Kanté is inoffensive to casual racists, because he behaves how they believe a good, hard working black person should, whereas Pogba is the opposite. His over the top criticism of Pogba was very often rooted in nothing else than his unconscious bias - the past couple of years have warped people's minds on this matter, but Pogba was generally speaking ok at first for us, and Souness's was extremely vocal and critical towards him right from the start, in a pretty surprising and shocking way. There were often moments where his bile even surprised his co-pundits on air.

Anyway, people seem to believe that if you're not ideologically advocating for the deportation of all black people from the UK, and once said hello politely to a black person, you're not a racist, and won't understand the underlying issue with Souness, which is a bit sad. There's various shades of this, and the perverse nature of Souness's bias is a lot more common than people want to admit.
Great post.
 

GMoore23

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Here's his recent team of the week.

The racist cnut didn't even include one black player. Oh wait.......................
 

Macern

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i always find it funny when people point out times people weren’t racist as if that means anything

It’s like a murder defence lawyer showing a video of his client walking into a Starbucks and saying look here.. my client clearly didnt murder his wife he can order coffee without killing anyone
:lol:
 
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