Graham Potter appointed Chelsea manager

[Spaghetti]

Apart from him actually having quite a consistent playing style over his last two clubs. Recently he’s had to become a bit more pragmatic. But (and I hate this stat) they have one of the highest expected goals in the league but their strikers have just been shooting blanks all season. He’s actually a very proactive trucking manage, who has now shown that he can set up a good defence as well.

The praise he’s getting is coming from the games where they have set up completely differently from their usual style.

Regarding the striking situation, if the striker isn’t scoring then you need to find a solution, which is not necessarily buying a new striker. United are second in the league and have scored the second most with a striker who, until the freak game on Tuesday, had only scored 2 goals all season. And this is the managers job.

 

[giorno]

He’s a good manager for a lower Prem club as he seems to do a lot of research and set up the team in an appropriate way for the task.

Being at a top team, where there’s more of an emphasis on playing your own way, and having the other team worry about adapting, is a different matter.

I’m not saying he couldn’t do that, but it’s worth bearing in mind.

This is both wrong and pointless. Like saying water is wet

In general brighton try to play their way, always. It's just brighton. Hard to ask them to impose their game on liverpool at anfield

And doing research on the opponents and coming up with specific counters is what all good managers do. There isn't a single top manager who doesn't adapt

 

[Nickosaur]

He’s a good manager for a lower Prem club as he seems to do a lot of research and set up the team in an appropriate way for the task.

Being at a top team, where there’s more of an emphasis on playing your own way, and having the other team worry about adapting, is a different matter.

I’m not saying he couldn’t do that, but it’s worth bearing in mind.

Potter doesn't go out of his way to change his tactics depending on the opposition. That's actually some of the criticism he's had from Brighton fans on forums/subreddits this season. Some actually encouraging a more direct/long ball approach at times a la Pulis!

The praise he’s getting is coming from the games where they have set up completely differently from their usual style.

I couldn't disagree more. Which games were completely different to their usual style?

This is both wrong and pointless. Like saying water is wet

In general brighton try to play their way, always. It's just brighton. Hard to ask them to impose their game on liverpool at anfield

And doing research on the opponents and coming up with specific counters is what all good managers do. There isn't a single top manager who doesn't adapt

Yeah have to agree. Potter has a specific style and vision and tries desperately to play that regardless of opposition. He's essentially playing a vertical tiki taka, which seems mad at times considering there are quite a few championship level players in the team.

 

[NinjaFletch]

This is both wrong and pointless. Like saying water is wet

In general brighton try to play their way, always. It's just brighton. Hard to ask them to impose their game on liverpool at anfield

And doing research on the opponents and coming up with specific counters is what all good managers do. There isn't a single top manager who doesn't adapt

There's a really, really bizarre hatred of teams lower in the division who try and put their foot on the ball and play as if it's arrogant of them. The same posters then also hate teams like West Brom for appointing dinosaurs like Allardyce.

I don't really get it, but I'm glad Potter's starting to get some results. Brighton are a watchable team and the league is better for teams like them being in it. When I'm flicking through the endless stream of football matches to watch at the minute they're pretty high up on my list of teams that I think will be involved in a good game.

I'd be interested to see how far Potter can go. I wouldn't be amazed if England come calling when Southgate quits.

 

[tomaldinho1]

The praise he’s getting is coming from the games where they have set up completely differently from their usual style.

Regarding the striking situation, if the striker isn’t scoring then you need to find a solution, which is not necessarily buying a new striker. United are second in the league and have scored the second most with a striker who, until the freak game on Tuesday, had only scored 2 goals all season. And this is the managers job.

Not sure this is logical. Bruno takes our pens and is our leading scorer with 12, Rashford has 8, Cavani 5, Martial 4. These are some of the best strikers in the league (Martial and Rashford both scored 17 PL goals last season) but it's Ole's choice to make Bruno so important. If Rashford was on penalties, he'd be on ~14 for the season & also worth factoring in Bruno takes most FKs as well. United actually don't create that much, for all our moaning our strikers generally outperform our xG.

Brighton have Maupay on 7 and then a few like Welbeck, Gross and Trossard on 2, the very fact Welbeck is their joint second highest scorer should tell you all you need to know about the attacking quality he has to work with. Manager's can only work with the players they have and you can't compare United's attacking options with Brighton's. You should also look at their xG and xA - they are excellent (7th best xG and 4th best xA - we are 5th) it couldn't be more clear the setup and tactics are working well.

Yeah have to agree. Potter has a specific style and vision and tries desperately to play that regardless of opposition. He's essentially playing a vertical tiki taka, which seems mad at times considering there are quite a few championship level players in the team.

You need to watch them more. He will generally try to use possession offensively and will never sit in but he's played a load of different systems - that's probably why he's not as derided on here as Bielsa or Hasenhuttl - as he's definitely not as dogmatic with having 1 signature style (and hasn't been linked with Ole's job). Not saying this is verbatim but you should read this: Graham Potter – Brighton & Hove Albion – Tactical Analysis – The MastermindSite

FYI this site analyses all managers and is relatively positive on Ole so could be an interesting read in general/not be dismissed!

 

[Nickosaur]

You need to watch them more. He will generally try to use possession offensively and will never sit in but he's played a load of different systems - that's probably why he's not as derided on here as Bielsa or Hasenhuttl - as he's definitely not as dogmatic with having 1 signature style (and hasn't been linked with Ole's job). Not saying this is verbatim but you should read this: Graham Potter – Brighton & Hove Albion – Tactical Analysis – The MastermindSite

I've watched almost every game this season, Brighton are my second team - but admittedly I don't tend to dwell too deep on the tactical side of things! I just know I like what I see
Thanks for the link, it's a good read. There's clearly more to Potter's tactics than my post implied, and I know his formations can often be fluid/flexible but I still don't think his overall approach (pressing high up the pitch, playing from the back, high possesion, quick passing through opposition midfield) changes that drastically?

 

[R'hllor]

God forbid you mention a name of some other manager or bump their threads in here. Just close them all, holy shit.

 

[Holocene]

God forbid you mention a name of some other manager or bump their threads in here. Just close them all, holy shit.

The Caf' is really insecure about opposition managers. It's bizarre. I wonder if this happens on other fan communities.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I've watched almost every game this season, Brighton are my second team - but admittedly I don't tend to dwell too deep on the tactical side of things! I just know I like what I see
Thanks for the link, it's a good read. There's clearly more to Potter's tactics than my post implied, and I know his formations can often be fluid/flexible but I still don't think his overall approach (pressing high up the pitch, playing from the back, high possesion, quick passing through opposition midfield) changes that drastically?

Yeah I guess he's probably the most, if not one of the most, flexible PL managers tactically but there's a limit to how different he can be each week. He's not going to play Big Sam football one week and then tiki-taka the next! I wonder if it's because he has a weaker team though and needs to be more adaptive to stronger opponents, maybe we'd see a different style if he did have money to spend and better players.

 

[tomaldinho1]

God forbid you mention a name of some other manager or bump their threads in here. Just close them all, holy shit.

There is an aggressive crowd that will literally blow their top should you dare praise another coach. Potter so far isn't too scorned by them but if he does well, he will be added to their black book (so far it reads: Arteta, Poch, Lampard, Hasenhuttl, Nagelsmann, Bielsa)

 

[pocco]

There's some good managers knocking about at the moment. It would be a shame if they don't get a chance at bigger clubs eventually. Like most posters were telling us when Jose was in charge (less so now coincidentally), most managers don't stick around much more than 3 or 4 years. We need to be doing our homework now, especially if Ole's contract is up next year.

The next manager will need to be the one to take us to the very top and will have a good team at their disposal, so needs to bring the tactical and managerial acumen to match that.

 

[simplyared]

Spurs or Arsenal would be a good next step, upper mid-table clubs.

Agree he'd be great for Spurs. They should go for him now cos they're just gonna get worse.

 

[RUCK4444]

Please! Calm as you like. Looks half arsed bit like Grealish, then bursts into action. Stopped quite a few attacks and then gave the ball to attacking players. Didn't hang on to it. Very Makalele like, get and give.

Rice loves to get it and drive forward to the opposing area. Not vastly different to what we have at the moment. Bissouma is very disciplined to protect their back 4

Yeah he’s one of those that doesn’t look flashy at all but does the basics very well indeed.

Only young and should only improve.

Definitely one I’d be happy for us to recruit. Ticks a lot of boxes.

 

[Cheimoon]

Regarding the striking situation, if the striker isn’t scoring then you need to find a solution, which is not necessarily buying a new striker. United are second in the league and have scored the second most with a striker who, until the freak game on Tuesday, had only scored 2 goals all season. And this is the managers job.

While that'st true in general terms, you have to also consider the material he's working with. It's not like Brighton have good goalscorers hidden elsewhere in the team, and they can't just buy a proven goalscorer with their budget. Brighton already create a good number of chances, so the general setup is good. Maybe Potter could tweak things to get other people into those opportunities, but that risks upsetting the current balance. (Plus, what are your strikers supposed to do, then?) Obviously, if they keep losing games playing that style, then some chance is in order; but as long as they gather enough points, it would seem better to retain a working system and put all transfer efforts this summer into getting people with better scoring efficiency.

There is an aggressive crowd that will literally blow their top should you dare praise another coach. Potter so far isn't too scorned by them but if he does well, he will be added to their black book (so far it reads: Arteta, Poch, Lampard, Hasenhuttl, Nagelsmann, Bielsa)

Rose also,and Jesse Marsch might be next once he makes a step up (although I'm not sure how well he's really doing at Salzburg). I should say, though, that Potter is generally well regarded on here. I mean, this thread is much more positive than those of the others you mention.

 

[bond19821982]

There is an aggressive crowd that will literally blow their top should you dare praise another coach. Potter so far isn't too scorned by them but if he does well, he will be added to their black book (so far it reads: Arteta, Poch, Lampard, Hasenhuttl, Nagelsmann, Bielsa)

Very true. According to them, you are shit if you are managing bottom half teams.

 

[giorno]

You need to watch them more. He will generally try to use possession offensively and will never sit in but he's played a load of different systems - that's probably why he's not as derided on here as Bielsa or Hasenhuttl - as he's definitely not as dogmatic with having 1 signature style (and hasn't been linked with Ole's job). Not saying this is verbatim but you should read this: Graham Potter – Brighton & Hove Albion – Tactical Analysis – The MastermindSite

He does not use a load of different systems, as that site makes clear(pointing out the broad patterns of their play that are present in virtually every game - that is their system). The adjustments he makes are mostly down to personell(like most adjustemnts in general)

It's a good analysis and it points to the fact that brighton have a very well defined playing identity - a system - which they try to execute, with variations mainly down to personnell, in every game they play. Broadly, they are one of the least tactically flexible sides in the league actually, which largely comes down to the fact 70% of what they do is likely automated

 

[Inigo Montoya]

There is an aggressive crowd that will literally blow their top should you dare praise another coach. Potter so far isn't too scorned by them but if he does well, he will be added to their black book (so far it reads: Arteta, Poch, Lampard, Hasenhuttl, Nagelsmann, Bielsa)

He really won’t. If he was at Pool or City then it doesn’t matter who’s in charge ...they’d get shit

 

[tomaldinho1]

He does not use a load of different systems, as that site makes clear(pointing out the broad patterns of their play that are present in virtually every game - that is their system). The adjustments he makes are mostly down to personell(like most adjustemnts in general)

It's a good analysis and it points to the fact that brighton have a very well defined playing identity - a system - which they try to execute, with variations mainly down to personnell, in every game they play. Broadly, they are one of the least tactically flexible sides in the league actually, which largely comes down to the fact 70% of what they do is likely automated

Graham Potter’s Brighton have been one of the most tactically fluid sides in the Premier League two seasons in a row now. They’ve been able to transcend and operate in a number of different formations, most notably a 3-4-2-1/3-4-3 formation.

As I said above, unless you are expecting some kind of miracle work or FM style approach of course there will be constants across every game. It's fair to say he will try and have his team play offensively and he won't park the bus but they do so in more ways than most other managers. I can't think of another manager with more variety, Mou is very adaptable although he does it more in big games and Pep has some crazy ideas but they're usually a disaster.

 

[giorno]

As I said above, unless you are expecting some kind of miracle work or FM style approach of course there will be constants across every game. It's fair to say he will try and have his team play offensively and he won't park the bus but they do so in more ways than most other managers. I can't think of another manager with more variety, Mou is very adaptable although he does it more in big games and Pep has some crazy ideas but they're usually a disaster.

You're conflating starting formations with system. To begin with every formation is fluid and flexible nowadays. There is no real meaning to saying a team plays a 3-5-2 or a 3-4-3 or whatever. As the article essentially points out as well

it's correct to say that they play a very fluid and flexible system, i.e. they have a high degree of sophistication and organization with multiple patterns and can switch, mix and match depending on what the opponent does. But that system largely tends to stay the same from game to game

 

[romufc]

I think people get too carried away with these managers. They are good managers but not good enough to make the step up to title winning managers.

Its not difficult for a good manager to set a team up defensively and counter, we have seen it with Ole as well.

The real task comes when you are expected to win, when teams start putting low blocks and you have to find ways of breaking teams down.

Moyes struggled, Hodgon, Lampard and the like all have struggled to come up with a formula.

 

[golden_blunder]

There's some good managers knocking about at the moment. It would be a shame if they don't get a chance at bigger clubs eventually. Like most posters were telling us when Jose was in charge (less so now coincidentally), most managers don't stick around much more than 3 or 4 years. We need to be doing our homework now, especially if Ole's contract is up next year.

The next manager will need to be the one to take us to the very top and will have a good team at their disposal, so needs to bring the tactical and managerial acumen to match that.

Ole is not leaving of his own accord, he will get a new contact too

 

[tomaldinho1]

You're conflating starting formations with system. To begin with every formation is fluid and flexible nowadays. There is no real meaning to saying a team plays a 3-5-2 or a 3-4-3 or whatever. As the article essentially points out as well

it's correct to say that they play a very fluid and flexible system, i.e. they have a high degree of sophistication and organization with multiple patterns and can switch, mix and match depending on what the opponent does. But that system largely tends to stay the same from game to game

I will quote you to respond:
"it's correct to say that they play a very fluid and flexible system...But that system largely tends to stay the same from game to game"

 

[Cheimoon]

I think people get too carried away with these managers. They are good managers but not good enough to make the step up to title winning managers.

Its not difficult for a good manager to set a team up defensively and counter, we have seen it with Ole as well.

The real task comes when you are expected to win, when teams start putting low blocks and you have to find ways of breaking teams down.

Moyes struggled, Hodgon, Lampard and the like all have struggled to come up with a formula.

That's true, but I'm not sure how that's relevant here, seeing as Potter does not set his team up defensively to attack on the counter...?

 

[Spaghetti]

Potter doesn't go out of his way to change his tactics depending on the opposition. That's actually some of the criticism he's had from Brighton fans on forums/subreddits this season. Some actually encouraging a more direct/long ball approach at times a la Pulis!

I couldn't disagree more. Which games were completely different to their usual style?

Yeah have to agree. Potter has a specific style and vision and tries desperately to play that regardless of opposition. He's essentially playing a vertical tiki taka, which seems mad at times considering there are quite a few championship level players in the team.

Basically the last 2 games, in which they’ve beaten Liverpool and Spurs and sparked Potter praise. He deserves the praise, of course, but they clearly changed their style for the matches.

It is what managers need to do, which was my initial point.

 

[Spaghetti]

Not sure this is logical. Bruno takes our pens and is our leading scorer with 12, Rashford has 8, Cavani 5, Martial 4. These are some of the best strikers in the league (Martial and Rashford both scored 17 PL goals last season) but it's Ole's choice to make Bruno so important. If Rashford was on penalties, he'd be on ~14 for the season & also worth factoring in Bruno takes most FKs as well. United actually don't create that much, for all our moaning our strikers generally outperform our xG.

Brighton have Maupay on 7 and then a few like Welbeck, Gross and Trossard on 2, the very fact Welbeck is their joint second highest scorer should tell you all you need to know about the attacking quality he has to work with. Manager's can only work with the players they have and you can't compare United's attacking options with Brighton's. You should also look at their xG and xA - they are excellent (7th best xG and 4th best xA - we are 5th) it couldn't be more clear the setup and tactics are working well.



You need to watch them more. He will generally try to use possession offensively and will never sit in but he's played a load of different systems - that's probably why he's not as derided on here as Bielsa or Hasenhuttl - as he's definitely not as dogmatic with having 1 signature style (and hasn't been linked with Ole's job). Not saying this is verbatim but you should read this: Graham Potter – Brighton & Hove Albion – Tactical Analysis – The MastermindSite

FYI this site analyses all managers and is relatively positive on Ole so could be an interesting read in general/not be dismissed!

So you are saying his recruitment could be an issue? He’s been at the club for a couple of years and failed to identify that they don’t have anyone who can score. This could put off potential suitors at higher clubs I suppose.

I wasn’t comparing the quality at United to that of Brighton. But more that a striker failing to score hasn’t stopped them from being 2nd in the league, due to a more varied approach.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

I can definitely see Spurs going after this guy when they look to replace Jose.

 

[Spaghetti]

This is both wrong and pointless. Like saying water is wet

In general brighton try to play their way, always. It's just brighton. Hard to ask them to impose their game on liverpool at anfield

And doing research on the opponents and coming up with specific counters is what all good managers do. There isn't a single top manager who doesn't adapt

Which part is wrong?

Top teams may tweak their systems slightly but they don’t change their approach completely to every single game. Madrid probably have 2 main approaches - against Atlético / Barça or against the rest.

Liverpool, for example, have no plan B. Their plan A (long balls and picking up the second ball) was ridiculously successful for far too long, and they never change from it.

 

[tomaldinho1]

So you are saying his recruitment could be an issue? He’s been at the club for a couple of years and failed to identify that they don’t have anyone who can score. This could put off potential suitors at higher clubs I suppose.

I wasn’t comparing the quality at United to that of Brighton. But more that a striker failing to score hasn’t stopped them from being 2nd in the league, due to a more varied approach.

Potentially - I'm not sure how much money he's had. Guess you'd have to compare him to clubs with a similar budget but would be interesting to see that's for sure.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Just seen a Brighton fan on BT call it potter-ball. Come on

 

[Spaghetti]

Potentially - I'm not sure how much money he's had. Guess you'd have to compare him to clubs with a similar budget but would be interesting to see that's for sure.

He has spent around 100 million. Including 20million on Maupay and 20 million on Trossard.

 

[tomaldinho1]

He has spent around 100 million. Including 20million on Maupay and 20 million on Trossard.

Well I guess they are their top scorers! Looking at those listed on transfermarkt it's clear he's having to bargain hunt - I'd imagine the issue Brighton will have is they'll be after players like Soucek or Watkins but can't be that competitive on wages. I think their top earner is Lallana (who they had to smash their wage structure for) whereas most of their players will be on less than £2m per year, when you look at someone like WHUM it's a big step up, he's basically got WBA budget and squad but is choosing to try and play his style. Potter versus Big Sam. Purists versus Pragmatists.

 

[giorno]

Which part is wrong?

Top teams may tweak their systems slightly but they don’t change their approach completely to every single game. Madrid probably have 2 main approaches - against Atlético / Barça or against the rest.

Liverpool, for example, have no plan B. Their plan A (long balls and picking up the second ball) was ridiculously successful for far too long, and they never change from it.

Brighton don't change their approach from game to game. They rarely did, and usually by necessity because their opponents forced them to

And having multiple gameplans to fall back on in case plan A doesn't work is good coaching

 

[Spaghetti]

Brighton don't change their approach from game to game. They rarely did, and usually by necessity because their opponents forced them to

And having multiple gameplans to fall back on in case plan A doesn't work is good coaching

I totally agree with that. But I don’t think you are naive enough to think that managing at Brighton is the same as managing at, say, Chelsea. When those two teams play each other, which would you expect to have to change their style?

For what it’s worth, I thought Brighton played excellently against United and were extremely unlucky not to win.

 

[Spaghetti]

Well I guess they are their top scorers! Looking at those listed on transfermarkt it's clear he's having to bargain hunt - I'd imagine the issue Brighton will have is they'll be after players like Soucek or Watkins but can't be that competitive on wages. I think their top earner is Lallana (who they had to smash their wage structure for) whereas most of their players will be on less than £2m per year, when you look at someone like WHUM it's a big step up, he's basically got WBA budget and squad but is choosing to try and play his style. Potter versus Big Sam. Purists versus Pragmatists.

Yes, he’s certainly doing a decent job with what he’s got. Although a moment ago you were saying he’s unlucky because the strikers are not scoring. And I know football is a crazy financial world, but 20 million for Maupay is hardly bargain hunting!

Anyway, I’m sure he’ll get a shot at a higher up club if they continue like they have in the last couple of weeks.

 

[Cascarino]

I really like him. The job he took over at Swansea was legitimately awful, mass exodus after being relegated and financially limited in terms of bringing players in, something like 45m on transfers out but only about 5m spent. It might sound a little dramatic but I was very worried about that season, said this as the season started

Only one senior CB, there is Rodon, a former academy lad full of talent, but he's only 20 and has only ever played a dozen competitive games and they all came in league 2 for Cheltenham last season.
Bony won't be fit this year. so the only striker is McBurnie.

It's going to be an interesting season.

Edit: +£43,960,000 this season and we haggle over 500k for Woods.

Mawson, Fernandez, Amat and Bartley all gone (or will be by tonight). This leaves VDH as the one CB left at Swansea.

The amount of first team players who have left, and the lack of replacements is very worrying. On top of the players who’ve already gone it looks like J.Ayew and Clucas will both be gone today too.

Potter has his work cut out.

Dan James, Joe Rodon and Connor Roberts all had their breakthrough season under him coming from the academy, and he played in a way that made going to watch the games enjoyable. I was pretty gutted he left as he sounded initially like he wanted to build something at Swansea, but the board wore him down. Whenever I tune into Brighton games I find them fun, does seem to struggle sometimes with getting the crucial goals but always worth the watch.

I've spoken to a lot of people who have interacted with him and a couple who have worked with him, sounds like quite a decent bloke which endears him to me further. Hoping he does well.

 

[giorno]

I totally agree with that. But I don’t think you are naive enough to think that managing at Brighton is the same as managing at, say, Chelsea. When those two teams play each other, which would you expect to have to change their style?

For what it’s worth, I thought Brighton played excellently against United and were extremely unlucky not to win.

Of course managing Brighton isn't the same as Chelsea

Still Brighton don't really change their style willingly. They do because they're unable to force their game on the opponent

 

[tomaldinho1]

Yes, he’s certainly doing a decent job with what he’s got. Although a moment ago you were saying he’s unlucky because the strikers are not scoring. And I know football is a crazy financial world, but 20 million for Maupay is hardly bargain hunting!

Anyway, I’m sure he’ll get a shot at a higher up club if they continue like they have in the last couple of weeks.

Maupay is doing ok, he's on 7 which is better than Cavani, Martial and Greenwood. For £20m + wages of £2m a year (Cavani's fee + wage will be £30m for one year) he seems a decent signing. Trossard looks to have average stats (4g, 2a) so if he keeps up that rate he'll have been ok. In reality, anyone getting 10+ for them will have been worth it because they are essentially aiming to stay up.

My point is if you look at their underlying stats, they are really impressive and so there's a definitely a potential question about recruitment, could they have signed someone better, can they pay enough to be competitive or has potter hired poorly. I don't think there can be much debate to whether he's doing well on the pitch (currently) though as that seems very obviously 'yes'.

 

[croadyman]

I can definitely see Spurs going after this guy when they look to replace Jose.

Yeah was thinking the exact same thing when watching the game tonight

 

[tenpoless]

Any chance his name used to be like Smith or something and he changed to fit in?

 

[alexthelion]

There is an aggressive crowd that will literally blow their top should you dare praise another coach. Potter so far isn't too scorned by them but if he does well, he will be added to their black book (so far it reads: Arteta, Poch, Lampard, Hasenhuttl, Nagelsmann, Bielsa)

Probably because the Ole-outers have been loud in wanting them as a replacement for Ole.