Needs time honestly.
They bought poorly in the summer and have to give him the players he wants.
They bought poorly in the summer and have to give him the players he wants.
Graham Potter | turns down Ajax job
- Thread starter horsechoker
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No difference.
Same as before.
Based on results and performances at the start of this season alone the sacking was definitely harsh but then again not completely without merit because our football great in the latter half of 21/22 either, and more importantly if reports are to be believed that there were clashes behind the scenes both with some of the players as well as the higher ups at the club I think him leaving was always going to happen eventually anyway. Despite all that I'd definitely have wanted to see him stay till at least the end of the season and then if the change in manager was still considered necessary start from a clean slate next year with the new coach getting a full pre-season and a full transfer window from the start.
That said, I also understand that ripping off the band-aid and jump starting this 'club rebuild' earlier can help the club in the long term. If we're looking at the current season in a closed bubble I think it would have been more beneficial for our top-4 chances to keep Tuchel but if the plan is to reinvent the whole club operation from the ground up (squad building ideology, data-based player recruitment etc.) and Potter is the one who's been chosen to be the coach in all that it makes sense for him to have almost a whole season to evaluate the squad and identify where we still need to improve, as well as use this time to coach his game system and ideas to the players who are still going to be part of the team next season. The new owners pitched this 'club rebuild' idea to Tuchel as well but he wanted nothing to do with it and just wanted to focus on the coaching part of the job.
If the aim of the club is to become competitive for the EPL title again in the future instead of being locked in a constant battle for top4 I think some changes in how the club is run are/were definitely needed. Despite a lot of money spent the last time we competed for the league title was six years ago in 2016/17 so despite all the criticism the new owners are now getting it's clear that lately certain things weren't working as well as they could have under the Abramovich regime either.
Basically we've gone the Arsenal route. They had a lot of growing pains earlier into Arteta's project but seem to be doing well now. Potter probably won't be afforded 2-3 years to become competitive but then again he should also have more resources available to him to implement his ideas and get his own players in quicker. As for now the jury is still out and I'm definitely not holding these recent results against him.
Yep, including outsmarting Stefano Pioli twice.
I'm not totally sold he's the right man and I'm annoyed with the recent league performances which he needs to sort out sharpish but the comment you quoted takes the phrase misinformed to whole new dimensions.
An interesting take on Tuchel being offered a chance to rebuild the club but wanted the coaching part only. Wouldn't rebuilding have worked in his favor?
Regarding going the Arsenal route, it's definitely a possibility with the new management at the helm but the fans have become accustomed to the managerial merry go round at Chelsea.
I don't think sacking a world class manager and replacing him with an emerging manager with a mid table club has ever worked?
Ironically it's a similar situation to Dortmund appointing Tuchel in terms of career path to the point of getting the big chance.
I've done a lot of research on Potter even before he took the job and tactically speaking it really should work (unlike Moyes and Roy who's plucky underdog systems were never going to translate well to a team looking to win every week). The big question mark is whether he can adapt his mindset to the demands of an elite club (which we are in 2022 no matter how many times people cling on to us being shit in the 80s) and I have to say early signs are a little concerning.
There there.
You were shit in the second half of the 1900's and through the 1910's/20's/30's/40's/50's/60's/70's and 1990's as well.
I’m not familiar with the circumstances in which Tuchel got the Dortmund job but was it the same as Potter?
As in the club spent a fortune on lots of different players then decided to sack their manager after the transfer window closed and appoint him?
I like Potter and think he’s a good long term choice but the circumstances that brought him to Chelsea were panicked, unplanned and very reactive.
It may work out but I don’t buy this as being one big masterplan from the owners. They’ve totally fudged things.
Five years managing Mainz doing very well (scaled for the budget) playing good/pressing football despite the technically inferior players.
Which like with Potter at BHA got him his big chance.
Ahh okay sure. I meant more about how he got the chance. Were Dortmund as chaotic as Chelsea or did they plan for Tuchel and appoint him before pre season, get him his targets, staff and let him train the team?
Nah, totally different. Only similiarity: they came from small clubs were they impressed due their body of work. Although Tuchel's Mainz really impressed also attacking wise - not sure Potter's Brighton did and that will always be something of high demand at an elite club.
If Todd centered his masterplan around Potter he made him a disservice to throw him into this mess asap which had / has the risk of damaging his reputation and standing without having a proper time to get to know the players or have the possibility to bring in some transfers. Would have been way smarter to keep Tuchel till the World Cup and sack him afterwards - that way Tood wouldn't have alienated half the fan base (he likely doesn't care) and bought Potter some more time. Everything appears a bit short sighted and ill thought through.
Totally agree.
It does seem like many Chelsea fans can’t, or don’t want to, see this though.
Boehly has been a disaster thus far. So reactive. They couldn’t even get a recruitment team and missed all their first choices, ended up taking some of Brightons then got someone from Southampton (from memory). The whole thing took months and mirrored the chaos of the transfer window.
Surely if the new owners had a clear plan and vision this would have existed before they bought the club? Then they would have come in and implemented it immediately.
I think it’s just a case of maybe not agreeing entirely with your view of things? Just because you think Boehly has been a disaster does not make it an indisputable fact? It’s possible to think he has made iffy decisions without categorising it as catastrophic or disaster.
You surely agree his approach has lacked any kind of planning and execution though?
Would find it odd anyone could suggest everything has gone as planned. It genuinely seems there was no plan. Sorry.
I mean there can be a bit of nuance surely? I don’t think he’s been disastrous but he’s made some iffy decisions as well that haven’t been helpful. Hopefully future windows will go smoother as the owners put people in place to oversee different parts of the operation.
Sure. I certainly don’t think what he’s done so far looks particularly polished though so far. Early days as you say but if he puts himself front stage again throwing money around it would be a concern.
Here are some quotes on the matter by Tuchel himself.
Over the summer Tuchel also repeatedly spoke about his distaste for the transfer market and how he just wants to coach. Then in the quotes above he clearly states he doesn't consider being involved in the building of any new club structure to be a part of his job description either.
It's definitely a big contrast to Potter who is said to be very keen on the idea of taking part in moulding the new backroom staff and upon joining the club he immediately brought in one of his own recruitment analysts Kyle Macaulay from Brighton and is also said to have had some role in bringing in Joe Shields (Southampton chief scout) and Laurence Stewart (technical director at AS Monaco) to the club. The club are also seemingly about to poach Brighton again for their long serving chief scout Paul Winstanley who will definitely have been recommended to the club executives by Potter himself.
Is there a full interview anywhere? Correct me if i'm wrong the entire 90 minute interview will be released some time this week innit?
I dont want to pass on judgments just because of a couple of lines.
I dont want to pass on judgments just because of a couple of lines.
More than happy with Potter ? 2 draws and 3 defeats in the league in the last 5, I am more than happy too ! Long may it continue. The future is bright.
Seriously, I think that Potter is a bit like Moyes, out of his depth in a bigger club. It’s the hope that kills you.
You need to give a manager at least 2 years before you judge them. If that means a couple of midtable finishes then so be it.
Jokes aside, it'll be a disgrace if he doesn't get the rest of the season, and the summer window to start making his own team.
Not really. After few months, I can give ETH time because I can see what he is trying to do, so I won’t bother us to finish midtable.
He took over a team that had all of its assets frozen, could not recruit players due to not really knowing what was happening next week. Once purchasing the team he was made aware of some truly despicable management practices that lead to a person's suicide. Had a manager that was going through a bad private life and was not cooperative with the new owners. I think it is important to remember why that window was as chaotic as it was. If it happens that way this January, then it is fair to say it has been bad. I don't really see how that transition was ever going to be good, especially as the window was already open before any deals could be put together.
Look, I understand the banter and the little digs. You have to do it. Part of being a football fan when your team isn’t doing too well. It’s a song and dance I’ve performed many times with Arsenal and Spurs fans, so I don’t expect rival fans to ease the boot off our throats when it’s our turn in the gutter
So I’d say if Clearlake had a vision why did it take so long to decide Tuchel wasn’t right? Why did that only happen after the season started and they’d backed him in the market? Why didn’t they take so long to look at the structure and recruitment? Why didn’t they have this sorted prior to the take over instead of having to settle for whatever was left over several months down the line?
The window was chaos and the owners have been very reactive in everything they’ve done.
Where will potter go after here? Always a chance of it back firing when you leave a mid table team that your over achieving with to join one of the big boys. Don’t know if he’ll stay in the prem when Chelsea sack him.
I would say it would have been a real issue getting rid of Tuchel immediately. Most of us adored him. It also takes time for a relation to work or not to work. Boehly could end up being a disaster, but I would not use that period to judge him. That was a truly stacked deck against any new owner.
Every manager Chelsea have sacked in the last couple of decades has gone on to get a very good job. Even the likes of Avram Grant got another Prem job (apart from Tuchel, but he'll get a good job 100% if he wants it).
Getting the sack at Chelsea isn't a blight on anyone's career. It's why almost everyone wants to be Chelsea manager, you know you'll end up with a huge payoff and no stain on your record.
United or Spurs going by recent history.
Surely if you’re the new owner with this long term plan you arrive at the club, meet the important people then make a decision who you want and who you don’t want quickly.
You certainly get in your sporting director early so you can start to shape the squad and then bring in a coach that matches the same philosophy.
Boehly did everything the wrong way around. The same happened in your transfer window.
Chelsea went from a slick operating machine to a chaotic disaster. Bidding, and being rejected, by everyone and overpaying massively to simply get bodies through the door.
Meanwhile Boehly was out having dinner with everyone whilst Tuchel was having a breakdown in the US.
Certain Chelsea fans are in the position we were this time last year. Just sorting it out now, a run is just around the corner (literally what Maguire said)
I was told on here by a few Chelsea fans that the owner wasn’t buying the players but it was the advisers that he was about to appoint that were advising him (I did question this logic since it’s before they would even get paid)
It’s just the truth being bent this way and that as to not see what could actually be happening. I include both sides in that, I could very well be wrong and Potter has them top 4 come May. The worst of it is there is absolutely nothing to suggest that Boelhy won’t be a hands on owner so all his talk of Sporting Director saviours are a bit premature.
The idea that everything was running great in the previous regime is a major rewriting of history.
Just looking at the last year alone we spent £97m on Mr first touch and let two defenders contracts expire.
Definitely not us. We’ve got Ten Hag for the long run I think.
And like I wrote on here earlier today, the last time we even remotely challenged for the league title throughout a full season was six years ago under Conte. After that the amount of money spent has been massive but we've still been in a constant battle for top4 and nothing more. Most big money transfers have been players identified by the club hierarchy and most of them have been huge flops.
Marina sold players well but other than she didn't do a very good job in the last five years or so. This revisionism that the club was operating like a well-oiled machine under her leadership is very baffling.
To have a chance of getting back to challenging for league titles something definitely had to change. Boehly and his buddies are at least trying something different and new people are being hired to run the recruitment department. It remains to be seen whether their way of doing things works out better than their predecessors or not but unlike some on here I won't judge them on the last summer window when literally none of the recruitment personnel were in place at the time and the manager was different too.
For people like @TheReligion everything has to be black or white. It's either complete shite with no hope for improvement ever or it's sunshine and rainbows and everything is perfect. Neither is true.
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I would go as far as saying we were run erraticly from late 00s onwards. They had the right idea to replace the old guard with the signings of younger players but then we scraped it for a quick title.
It wasn't disastrously bad and there was a lot of good but having Eden Hazard helped paint over an awful lot of cracks that the outsiders wouldn't see.
There is a big change in the club's management structure from the very top to the head coach. It is normal to have a teething period. The old DOF and the football director structure was all gone in the summer and need to rebuild from the ground. Things will only get better with the resources Chelsea has.
Sorry you just don’t like hearing the truth about how things have been run at your club lately.
Like I said, it's not black or white.
I definitely recognize the new owners have had a bit of rocky start and should have done certain things better but I also recognize some positive aspects as well and can definitely see a long term vision somewhere in there.
As a non-Chelsea fan (not sure about that tbh) you're definitely allowed to focus only on the negatives. I on the other hand keep in mind the negatives but also try to focus on the bigger picture because surely being a moaning miserable cnut gets boring after a while, no?
You’re a nice guy, you understand footballLook, I understand the banter and the little digs. You have to do it. Part of being a football fan when your team isn’t doing too well. It’s a song and dance I’ve performed many times with Arsenal and Spurs fans, so I don’t expect rival fans to ease the boot off our throats when it’s our turn in the gutter
.