Both Nadal and Djokovic have better head-to-head record against Federer. I hope both surpass him in GS titles.
Greatest mens tennis player of all time
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
If Djokovic reaches 20 slams, he’s got a very strong case to be the greatest ever. His positive head to head against both Federer and Nadal cannot be overlooked either. In an individual sport, that’s a quite telling statistic.
No love for Tim Henman?
I beat him as a junior
Currently Federer, in a few years it will be Djokovic.
Any particular reason for those records? Just curious. Is it because Federer is older? Or is Federer simply not as good as people think he is?
I won't even ask for proof as it's very likelyI beat him as a junior
He will need to catch Federer in slams if he wants to be the goat. Same with Nadal. The goal posts have always been at the same location.
I won't even ask for proof as it's very likely
Well one could argue that Federer won a lot of those when Djokovic was younger and had breathing problems (he underwent a sinus surgery years ago). Same goes for Nadal, he's five years younger and had a lot of health issues. Roger is great, but I believe both peak Djokovic and peak Nadal are better than peak Federer.
Circumstances like these wont factor in unless they all wind up tied at 20, at which point we can look at how they got their slams, what their head to head records were etc.
Of course, up until that point Roger will be the unanimous GOAT.
Disagree. It’s really easy to forget how good R.F was at his peak.
If Novak wins a proper grand slam (in one season) he won't have to catch up to Fed's major titles count
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This is one narrative I disagree with strongly, people have forgotten how ridiculous Federer was at his peak. Just look up 2004 USO Final, Hewitt had gone 20 odd games without dropping a set and he got obliterated in the final. Commentators were talking up Federer as future GOAT when he had only won 3 Slams, that's how good he was. If we are to go by who had the highest peak one could make an argument for Djokovic 2011 where he had an absurd year but do remember he lost to Federer in SF of RG.
Federer has won against 3-4 different generation of tennis players, I don't know why one has to hold it against him. It probably works in his favor.
Looks likely. Nadal a distant third IMO.
Cannot see anyone stopping Djoker bar himself or the injuries.
Must feel so strange for Federer and the tennis world (fans and players alike).He has practically been hailed as the GOAT quite early in his career and it felt like a certain accomplishment that noone would break for a long time.Especially when Federer had that breath of second life 2 years ago when he started winning slams and beating Nadal again. Around that time Djokovic looked lost and you felt both him and Nadal wouldn't win many slams again.
But here we are, Novak found his invincible super saiyan ultra instinct form again and Nadal still looks like winning the French Open for a few years and is closest to that 20. I think Djokovic might actually do it if he can play another three or four years at a good level. Not one but two players could take the GOAT status that Federer seemed to have held for so long (and it seemed everyone agreed it would remain like this for a long long time after the current generation is finished).
It's a bit similar to Sampras getting that Grand Slam record back in the day with everyone thinking noone would beat that, not knowing that a scrawny swissman would do it relatively soon. But this feels even more abrupt.
But here we are, Novak found his invincible super saiyan ultra instinct form again and Nadal still looks like winning the French Open for a few years and is closest to that 20. I think Djokovic might actually do it if he can play another three or four years at a good level. Not one but two players could take the GOAT status that Federer seemed to have held for so long (and it seemed everyone agreed it would remain like this for a long long time after the current generation is finished).
It's a bit similar to Sampras getting that Grand Slam record back in the day with everyone thinking noone would beat that, not knowing that a scrawny swissman would do it relatively soon. But this feels even more abrupt.
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I think Djokovic playing at this level for three or four years is unlikely.
Sooner or later the younger gen are going to get better and start out running him. He’d also tend to pick up more injuries.
Federer struggles physically in grand slams especially if he drops sets. He’d struggle in the next match.
I’d be surprised if Nadal or Djokovic are still playing at 37.
I didn't say at the same level, I specifically said at a "good level" because I know he can't keep this up for that long. For him that level is already good enough to fluke one grand slam a year. IF he retains beast form for this and next year and then falls off a bit like Federer, taking the odd slam here or there he could do it before 34-35.
Maybe. Or maybe neither of them will get there. I mean, just a while back Federer had won 3 out of the last GS. Now it's 4 slams without I think an appearance in a final. These things can swing quickly when you're over 30 (as all three are) and definitely when you're over 35 as Federer is.
I still see Nadal as the biggest threat as one French (this next one) is definitely in the bag for him so it's pretty much 18-20. Djokovic is gobbling up GS all of sudden but it is still 5 which is a third of his entire career slams. Although I don't see Federer winning another slam, you never know what's in store and I hope he challenges well for Wimbledon and the US open.
Djokovic is only 5 behind Federer. by the end of this year he could be 3 behind. OK, let's say they're not playing until 37 like Federer, let's say 34 to be ultra conversative. that still gives Djokovic 8 more slams to get 3 or 4. if you say he's still competing strongly at 35, he only needs to win 4 of 12. he will do it easily. the gap between the big 3 and the rest is ridiculous - the new generation will have to up their game considerably over the next couple of years to stop him.
I fully expect Djokovic to surpass Federer's total, and be considered the best player of all time.
Nadal's reliance on the French makes him a distant 3rd for me - even if he did make it past 20.
Hard to disagree with this. And unlike Nadal, if Djoko gets ahead of Federer in GS, there aren't many justifications why he won't be the GOAT. Bear in mind, if he reaches 20+, it would mean that he has more GS than anyone, would hold the record in two out of four GS, have more ATP masters than anyone, and probably (likely) surpass Federer in number of weeks as No.1. The 'Fed was better to watch' won't hold against Djokovic's achievements.
The best chances for Federer is if he somehow flukes Wimbledon, or if Djokovic gets another burnout or gets injured.
Nadal is a distant third IMO. Even if he reaches 20, it would probably mean that 13 or 14 of them were in the French Open. Greatest ever player in a grand slam, but in the other three, both Fed and Djoko were miles better.
Boris Becker / thread closed
Nadal/Djokovich are better athlethes than Federer. Federer is the better tennisplayer.
Which of these three plays the most beautiful tennis? Federer.
Which of these three players would you rather watch? Federer.
Maybe we could get a poll in this thread? @Damien
Which of these three plays the most beautiful tennis? Federer.
Which of these three players would you rather watch? Federer.
Maybe we could get a poll in this thread? @Damien
Becker was my favorite player growing up. I used to live in Wiesloch which is very close to Leimen.
Most title isn't perquisite. Senna won only 3 F1 championships (less than 5 other drivers) and is considered by many as the GOAT.
And both Raf and Djokovic will end up passing Federer (another great) anyway in slams. Maybe in next 3 years.
Which thread is that? I didn't see..
Djokovic is only a year younger than Nadal.
He’s also shown in the past that when everyone says he going to win that slam or whatever he tends to get bored. He’s got a good chance but he’s got to win another slam this year.
Not it won't, incredible thing to claim when Federer was winning slams with Hewitt and Roddick as his main challengers whilst all of Djokovic slams have been won with Fed, Rafa and Murray about.
Djokovic is also the only one to win all 9 master events. Has won more master titles than Fed will likely overtake Rafas total(1 behind) and win most year ends(1 behind Fed)
If he gets same the amount of slams as either then he is undisputedly better overall as he did it in the hardest era and has the H2H win ratio over both and won more masters etc.
I think Novak could equal 20 if he can churn out another two years of his current form.
Federer is the GOAT overall. Nadals the GOAT on clay.
Murray and Novak are in the conversation of all time greats, without being the greatest.
Murray and Novak are in the conversation of all time greats, without being the greatest.
Murray isn't close to an all time great.
I'd say both Novak and Rafa can overtake Federer if they play as long as he does in terms of stats. In terms of overall impact on the game, I think Fed may keep his crown for a while.
Murray isn't even the British GOAT. Fred Perry won 10 slams including the career slam during his career. Murray only has a total of 3. Good player but not nearly in the GOAT conversation.
I reckon Djokovic will end up with the greatest number of slams, by virtue of the fact that he’s on an insane run at the moment, which could easily see him win another 2 or 3 before next year’s French. My guess is that’s it for Federer. As someone mentioned above, two years of that sort of form, which would make it very unlikely that Federer would get any more and Nadal only picking up the French and he’d have a few years where he could try to add to the tally after both of the others are past their respective bests. That’s a nice fixed target to aim for and keep his motivation high.
I think Fed may have one more left in the tank - possibly at Wimby or the Open or possibly next year's Aussie. If he reaches 21, it will make it very hard to catch him. I can see Rafa winning maybe one more French but with Thiem just hitting his peak it will be increasingly hard.
I love Muzzy but he’s not even anywhere near these guys let alone tier 2 and 3 GOAT candidates.
Like I said in the other thread, even if Novak finishes a Slam or two below Federer, he's got to be GOAT. He's got truly impressive accomplishments already and he's done it without stat padding in a weak field. Ofcourse if he does get a weak field to stat pad in, he's good enough to take a good number of Slams if Fed/Nadal are done soon.
If we end up with all of them within a Slam or two of each other then, at that point, it's going to be more than just the count.
If we end up with all of them within a Slam or two of each other then, at that point, it's going to be more than just the count.
Have felt Nadal is the goat for a long time but cant argue with this post.
For me if Djokovic and Nadal end up with the same slam as Federer its
Djokovic
Nadal
Federer