Guardian: Manchester United lose £200m training kit deal over fans’ anti-Glazers campaign

[Jazz]

how can you hurt one without the other?

I said what I said.

I should also think any prospective buyer will think twice about buying with all the bloody toxicity the fans pile on to the club. So you might be stuck with the Glazers for longer anyway. Some fans just do not think about all the implications.

Just don't expect the club to spend money they don't have this summer. I don't want to hear any moaning.

 

[Jazz]

All this just as we're getting our shit together football wise. It's a bad strategy.

 

[Jazz]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

This is so bad.

 

[Tarrou]

I said what I said.

I should also think any prospective buyer will think twice about buying with all the bloody toxicity the fans pile on to the club. So you might be stuck with the Glazers for longer anyway. Some fans just do not think about all the implications.

Just don't expect the club to spend money they don't have this summer. I don't want to hear any moaning.

what kind of answer is this?

I know what you said, I'm asking you to explain it

 

[Withnail]

All this just as we're getting our shit together football wise. It's a bad strategy.

So... Do nothing?

 

[Jazz]

So... Do nothing?

Destroying the club is not the answer. But keep on until we have feck all left. You're attacking the financial structures of the club. How does that help us? Explain how that helps us. If we don't look like a viable investment, who the feck is going to touch us? In the meantime, less income means less we can't compete to the standards we want. What you gonna do then? Make money rain down from the sky?

It sets us back more than anything the Glazers could do.

 

[Tallis]

I am not sure why people assume that the next buyers will be better than Glazers. We could get a Peter Lim who has systematically ruined Valencia.

 

[Tarrou]

I am not sure why people assume that the next buyers will be better than Glazers. We could get a Peter Lim who has systematically ruined Valencia.

Nobody is assuming that.

"Better the devil you know" becomes a little bit meaningless when your owners conspired to setup a super league which could well have decimated the English football pyramid, though.

We're already on course for everything the club stands for being obliterated. Is that just passing you by or what?

 

[Roboc7]

But nobody knows. Nobody has a clue whether the next owners will be benevolent billionaire life-long fans or asset stripping venture capitalists.

Someone willing to take that chance has the right to call themselves a fan? I don’t see it.

Unless your emotional attachment is so that you can just shrug and walk away if it’s the latter I don’t see how any fan would be open to take that risk. Literally throwing a coin the the air and claiming that fans should be okay with just risk.

Hyperbole aside, we’ve struggled to replace Fergie but were second and the last 16 years haven’t been awful. Certainly not a basis for being relaxed on literally risking the club in the outcome of an unknowable coin toss

So a fan waits for Glazers to sell on own terms and take that exact same chance with next owners anyway?.[/QUOTE]

 

[Withnail]

Destroying the club is not the answer. But keep on until we have feck all left. You're attacking the financial structures of the club. How does that help us? Explain how that helps us. If we don't look like a viable investment, who the feck is going to touch us? In the meantime, less income means less we can't compete to the standards we want. What you gonna do then? Make money rain down from the sky?

It sets us back more than anything the Glazers could do.

Again so your solution is what, do nothing?

Never protest anything? Protests are hard. Nothing is achieved by accepting the status quo. This hand wringing because it's been reported that we lost a potential minor sponsor is laughable.

 

[RUCK4444]

You're the kind of fan this messaging was tailor--made for, then

With respect you’ve never been in this position, your one horse league means that you’ve never had to worry for more than a single season of Dortmund-game-raising about your position in said league and your ability to compete in Europe.

We’ve been climbing back to where we are now inch by fecking painstaking inch for the best part of a decade.
So forgive me if I have reservations about crippling the commercial side of our club and potentially setting us back another decade whilst competing in the most competitive league on the planet, one where your position at the top table is all big guaranteed unless your backed by oil.

All in the hope an owner swoops in and pays £4 Billion without crippling us for a return, which is a feckin pipe dream imo. Unless it’s the Saudi’s.

I’m not swayed by messages from Joel feckin Glazer, I’ve been posting this exact, word for word, opinion for years here. Feel free to search.

 

[Jazz]

Again so your solution is what, do nothing?

Never protest anything? Protests are hard. Nothing is achieved by accepting the status quo. This hand wringing because it's been reported that we lost a potential minor sponsor is laughable.

Do you really think we're only going to lose a minor sponsor if the fans carry on like this? This could have a ripple effect.

You've protested, the Glazers have heard you and seem to be trying to work with the fans; You're not even waiting for that outcome but just going full steam ahead attacking the financial structures of the club. I'm all for making your discontent known, but this is going too far and actually harming the club itself - not so much the Glazers. They will land on their feet somehow. You're just making things harder for our club.

We've finally had some relative stability football wise and building towards something better. Helping to cut our funds off affects that growth. Can't you see that?

 

[Jazz]

Anyway I'm done. Whatever happens happens. I will just support the club and ignore people's moanings when we can't afford to 'get back to the top' because there will be feck all resources to do so.

 

[::sonny::]

This will be an epic battle

The war eternal, till the end.

Now bring the protest in Tampa, Florida, outside his house.

 

[Roboc7]

Destroying the club is not the answer. But keep on until we have feck all left. You're attacking the financial structures of the club. How does that help us? Explain how that helps us. If we don't look like a viable investment, who the feck is going to touch us? In the meantime, less income means less we can't compete to the standards we want. What you gonna do then? Make money rain down from the sky?

It sets us back more than anything the Glazers could do.

Destroying the club is so ridiculously over the top, never going to happen as it wouldn’t suit anyone including the Glazers. We don’t compete at standards we want irrespective of the income already and our spending dips when we qualify for Champions League because for owners there’s no ambition or financial incentive to achieve any more.

 

[Brightonian]

People saying the Glazers can't be forced out are right.

People saying this hurts them and since they weren't going to let us spend money anyway that's a good thing are right too.

The point no-one seems to be making is that if we can inflict this kind of serious economic damage to their project (and it will take more evidence going forward to prove that to them), their only option will be to be forced to become better owners in order to return the club to its upward value trajectory. They won't find a buyer at anywhere near their evaluation, but the loss of a £200m sponsor is not nothing, especially if the press around that loss of sponsorship is loud enough to dissuade other applicants. In the end, they will stop taking so much money out of the club if that's what's needed to placate the fans and get the value rising again, because increasing equity has always been their long game.

Of course fans are cynical about the Glazers' capacity to change as owners, because they never have before. But they've never needed to before. I'm not suggesting the Glazers would ever change their attitude to the club. But they will be forced to respond to financial reality. This may only be the loss of one potential sponsor who might be replaced with something just as lucrative. But if it isn't, if fan protests both online and in reality can land a few more blows like this, they'll sit up and listen. They won't be going anywhere, but they can be forced to become better owners than they are now.

 

[diarm]

We have no control over who our next owners are. Trying to hold supporters accountable for that is fecking moronic.

What we can do, is make it abundantly clear what is not acceptable to us. The last 16 years of neglect, mismanagement and failure to engage with, or even consider the supporters is not acceptable. Attempting to breakaway and destroy 130 years of English football is not acceptable.

By the time this is done, any potential buyer coming in, will know with crystal clarity that they need to be better than the Glazers or they will get the same treatment.

If it takes a few financial hits, a few barren transfer windows and a hit to our image as one of the worlds most valuable clubs to get us back to being a football club first and an attractive investment opportunity second, I can live with that.

To many of you, having a bigger transfer budget and being top of the Forbes list is more important. I get that - I just don't respect you for it.

 

[Tarrou]

Anyway I'm done. Whatever happens happens. I will just support the club and ignore people's moanings when we can't afford to 'get back to the top' because there will be feck all resources to do so.

shame you didn't even bother to answer my question

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

You must realise that the match day protest was a catalyst to these sort of digital protests. They might have eventually happened but until the protest, they hadn’t and now they have.It motivated people and brought the issue to the attention of the world.

The match day protest was fine. I still stand by breaking into the stadium was not.

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

You wont get the traction the protests deserve without the whole breaking into the stadium stuff. The fact that supporters postponed the biggest fixture in English football made sure that the protest made the news worldwide

The company who have cancelled the deal cited concerns the brand would be boycotted. Not that matches wouldn't get played.

 

[::sonny::]

Sponsorships are made to sell products to club fans and to develop the brand awareness

A targeted attack like this is the most effective. Each big sponsor will run away from the club as soon as possible

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

that anyone could think this withdrawal happened as a result of anything other than the direct protests in and around Old Trafford is astounding to me.

They cited their brand being boycotted. Not some people sitting on the goals at OT.

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

Wtf? This has more to do with those fans breaking into the stadium and the worldwide coverage that caused than anything else.

Green and Gold campaign has been going for over a decade and gained ZERO wins, then this happens within a week of the stadium protest.

Again, companies cited boycotting of their brands.

 

[Jazz]

shame you didn't even bother to answer my question

Your question didn't make any sense. I was pretty clear in what I said. Just say you disagree with me and keep it moving.

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

You do realize it was 200 million over 10 years right? No one was coming in handing a cheque of 200 million which we were gonna use to buy Kane and Sancho.

To be fair, we rarely buy players with upfront cash. It's usually spread over the contract so if you get £10m per year sponsor money that contributed to the £20m you're paying a year for five years for a transfer fee of £100m player.

 

[RUCK4444]

Again, companies cited boycotting of their brands.

Yeah I’m sure it had nothing to do with the worldwide coverage we got as a result of the protesters breaking in but more importantly forcing the cancellation of the biggest game in the PL.

That didn’t affect it at all. Just the verbal talk the anti-glazer movement has been saying for a decade that managed to get them to crack coincidentally a few days after the protest.

 

[Tarrou]

Your question didn't make any sense. I was pretty clear in what I said. Just say you disagree with me and keep it moving.

the question of how can you hurt one without the other didn't make sense?

okay I'll break it down a bit further

how can you hurt Manchester United football club, a club owned by the Glazer family, without hurting the Glazer family?

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

Yeah I’m sure it had nothing to do with the worldwide coverage we got as a result of the protesters breaking in but more importantly forcing the cancellation of the biggest game in the PL.

That didn’t affect it at all. Just the verbal talk the anti-glazer movement has been saying for a decade that managed to get them to crack coincidentally a few days after the protest.

You would of gotten coverage if the match was delayed as per the Chelsea fans protest. That got coverage globally. Did not need to break into the stadium.

Also again, brands worried about boycotts has come after people have actually started threatening to actually boycott all the brands and smashing up reviews online.

 

[Jazz]

the question of how can you hurt one without the other didn't make sense?

okay I'll break it down a bit further

how can you hurt Manchester United football club, a club owned by the Glazer family, without hurting the Glazer family?

Billionaires always land on their feet. You won't hurt them as much as you think, but the implications of what the fans are doing will have more of an impact on the stability of the club. The more you destroy the club the longer it will take to get back to the top.
Glazers are shit owners but quite frankly they're not the worst owners. What if you had to deal with Croenke or whatever his name is? Arsenal has has had zero investment.

I am not here for instability. Not when we seem to be slowly turning a corner. And nothing you say is going to convince me.

 

[Tincanalley]

I dont believe the story at all to be honest it seems a bit planted by those who want their campaign to be viewed as a success.

The overall media coverage has been quite limited. It’s trended only briefly on social media. There isn’t even word from actual sponsors that have been targeted by it that they’re in any way affected or concerned. Yet a non-targeted business who nobody knew were ever in talks to sponsor us, who likely has never heard of the campaign, has pulled out of contract negotiations suddenly people know about?

At some point of if has all the hallmarks of bullshit it probably is.

The most that’s happened is that in order to create a story this company was approached and asked hypothetically if the campaign would affect their decision to sponsor us and their “Er....I guess” reply has been extrapolated. Which is why it’s being reported by MUST-friendly Jamie Jackson and not a financial or business reporter

Oh, those. That crowd. Interesting language from the hypotherical sponsors, newbie. "I guess". Are they American?

 

[dal]

Their engaging because it’s ruining the image of the club, they only care about money.

Sponsors are fully aware of cancel culture although I don’t think it goes that far it will eat away.

I feel they will be forced to give more ownership away.

 

[Tincanalley]

Ya me too. Better the devil you know. If they fix up the facilities, sign the right guys, start to repay the debt in a meaningful way while also bringing the fans into the fold then fine they can take their huge fees for owning us and finally hold their heads high around the fans. You know they are thinking we eventually want to sell this for 4b we can’t let it be seen to be falling apart and losing value under our stewardship and the whole world is talking about it. The fans finally have some taken some power back so I think this is all fine for now. It’s what the glazers actually do is the real question. If they promise the world and bail I think the local fans aren’t going to stop so easily this time and you could see with Woodward’s house and the latest protests the locals are not going to let it slide. It could get ugly yet. The glazers should keep their word and work fast!

Interesting post. "Sign the guys", yeah. Maybe. "Hold their heads up high?" Finally?? There's music needed for such a Disneyland ending, surely? Very realistic use of football fan language, too. Just the kind of expression you would hear down the pub. Hold their heads up high, around us fans, Glazers. Yes. Great. Marvellous. Cool. Fabulous. Way to go, buddy.

 

[Pickle85]

Interesting post. "Sign the guys", yeah. Maybe. "Hold their heads up high?" Finally?? There's music needed for such a Disneyland ending, surely? Very realistic use of football fan language, too. Just the kind of expression you would hear down the pub. Hold their heads up high, around us fans, Glazers. Yes. Great. Marvellous. Cool. Fabulous. Way to go, buddy.

Ha, this made me chuckle. Right on, dude. You know what's REALLY rad, fellow soccer fan?! Giving the Glazers another shot!

 

[Josep Dowling]

We have no control over who our next owners are. Trying to hold supporters accountable for that is fecking moronic.

What we can do, is make it abundantly clear what is not acceptable to us. The last 16 years of neglect, mismanagement and failure to engage with, or even consider the supporters is not acceptable. Attempting to breakaway and destroy 130 years of English football is not acceptable.

By the time this is done, any potential buyer coming in, will know with crystal clarity that they need to be better than the Glazers or they will get the same treatment.

If it takes a few financial hits, a few barren transfer windows and a hit to our image as one of the worlds most valuable clubs to get us back to being a football club first and an attractive investment opportunity second, I can live with that.

To many of you, having a bigger transfer budget and being top of the Forbes list is more important. I get that - I just don't respect you for it.

This is well said. In the end we all want to see what’s right for the club but have different views on how that’s achieved.

The club will get hurt in the short term to get the Glazers out but it comes at an unfortunate time with the squad finally looking on the up.

One issue is getting the Glazers out, fully understand that fans want to see them gone, but who exactly do they expect to buy the club? Do they want the club back on the stock exchange so fans can buy all the shares? The biggest issue is finding a suitable buyer. As an investor Manchester United is not a great investment anymore. It’s too expensive, very little profit and very little dividends. The only thing that they would hope to increase is the capital value of the club. The stadium and training ground needs upgrading. That’s more cash gone. TV rights look to be levelling out. And the idea of the super league has been squashed with new laws and regulations set to come in. That stops the club from ever being in control of its own TV rights. In basic terms there isn’t much growth available without spending a lot more money. Very few investors are going to be interested without major discount on the sale price.

 

[Haddock]

What makes me laugh is all these fans are basically saying is, we don't want capitalism.

The catalyst for many owners of clubs is generating money, the glazers saw an opportunity and grabbed it, it's what capitalism is all about.

Yes, we'd probably prefer dirty russian or Arab money, but ultimately that's another can of worms that you could go into about the unsuitability of other owners too. However we've got the glazer family and realistically, they've been decent owners all things considered.

The fans want success but that costs money, lots of it. Players/agents are the biggest leaches in football, their demands increase the debt on all clubs which is unsustainable. The glazer family are only leveraging debt onto the club to keep it competitive. Eventually all clubs will run out of money on the current model, unless their is a wage/transfer cap.

Sadly most fans are thick and don't really get business. They are living in a romantic football world of football from 30 years ago. The game hasn't been for the normal working man since sky injected billions into the game. This is just part of the evolution of football and sport in general. Football is no different to any business or sport really. The truth is, the club will die if the fans want to bleed the club of sponsorship and revenue. The choice is simple, glazers = having a competitive club. No glazers + no sponsors = club in freefall.

No fan is against the club turning a profit. We are asking for the money to be spent on facilities and proper planning. Not on Avram Glazer's barber.

Competitive is the Glazers knowing Alex Ferguson was going to retire and not planning for life after him. Competitive is directors raking in millions while skimping on transfers across the squad and punting on high priced galactios instead. Competitive is hiring three managers with wildly different styles of play and talent-management skills. Competitive is paying over the odds for bang average talent because you have no squad planning. Competitive is replacing Cristiano Ronaldo with Bebe and Obertan. Competitive is having a leaky roof in the stadium. Competitive is Edward Woodward who made the Herrera transfer as hard as buying Zidane. Competitve is paying £8M more for Fellaini than you could have a week earlier. Competitive is selling Lukaku (having overpaid for him to begin with) and signing Odio Igalho from Shanghai Shenhua midway through the season. Competitive is saddling the club with debt and paying £700M interest over the last decade. Competitive is grasping for a champions league spot every year when your income depends on it. Competitive is the league's highest wage bill with little to show for it. Competitive is declaring Woodward a marketing genius because he made that wee, unknown football club in the North West a worldwide marketing phenomenon. Competitive is the TeamViewer sponsorship which will bring in less than Chevrolet.

That's Glazer's football heritage.

Plenty of columinists, like this guy, have said us fans are idiots. Good to know. But even this dimbulb in the link posted can recognize this much. He wrote:

"If Man Utd’s supporters are really so unhappy, they can do what any dissatisfied customer does: Stop buying the product. For United’s hometown supporters, that’s an admittedly complicated proposition. They could stop showing up at Old Trafford, but even considering their antipathy toward the Glazers, that seems masochistic. They could boycott Red Devil merchandise, but with every jersey the club sells in China, it grows further insulated from the wrath of its English fans."

 

[red thru&thru]

16 years of pretty much peaceful protests haa got us where exactly with the owners?

Of course none of us want to see sponsors turn their back on us etc, however, we need to do such things for the Glazers to start thinking of making some sort of change.

People who are worried about the club not looking appealing enough for perspective buyers due to financial implications, simply don't understand what's happening here. We DO NOT want investors as our owners. We want owners who care about the club as a football club first and foremost. If Glazers want to sell and investors don't want to buy, the price will come down to a point where fans will buy the club!

 

[Bilbo]

What we can do, is make it abundantly clear what is not acceptable to us

Let's be honest here. The vast majority of our fanbase find a draw away to Chelsea not acceptable and they make that abundantly clear too.

 

[Bilbo]

How do you know there are no interested buyers?

I dont know that there aren't, but its highly likely. These things tend to become known rather quickly and besides, if anyone actually wants to do this and isn't leaking their interest all over the place in a time of fan unrest then they are missing a giant PR opportunity among other things.

 

[NFM]

Do you want to know what really bad owners look like?
Then carry on and lose sponsors and let the club default on its debt.
Then the banks take over, and you will see what really bad owners look like!
The level of intelligence on here over this matter is miniscule.

 

[Water Melon]

Do you want to know what really bad owners look like?
Then carry on and lose sponsors and let the club default on its debt.
Then the banks take over, and you will see what really bad owners look like!
The level of intelligence on here over this matter is miniscule.

Not true at all. Glazers will sell long before the banks have to intervene. Please show me any half a decent football club that was taken over by banks. Manchester United is up there with the world's best. There will be a long queue of potential buyers, if the price is right. Your miniscule "knowledge" is as far detached from reality as are fairies and ghosts from neurosurgeons.