Guardiola is bobbins considering the assets he has. Discuss (ting)

kaiser1

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Losing is Losing. He only ever won a a CL with the greatest team of all time.
If you chose a simplistic way to look at it. 7 semi finals are about the same Ferguson made all his career. 7 semis in 10 seasons are now things to scorn at. The 2 CL finals he won were against Fergie where he also had Ronaldo in 1 of them.

This greatest Barcelona team just finished trophyless and 18points behind league winners, scoreless in the CL semi vs Man utd before Guardiola took over. So much revisionism

Next thing will be posts of how great Sterling, Sane, Fernandinho, Walker, Otamendi Delph Stones, Ederson have always been all their life before meeting Pep

Pep failed for crashing at semis with Bayern, since he left Bayern I see that Bayern is now making finals
Pep failed for making 4 consecutive semis at Barca, since he left Barca 7yrs ago, Barca has been winning trebles every season
 

SportingCP96

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If you chose a simplistic way to look at it. 7 semi finals are about the same Ferguson made all his career

This greatest team just finished trophyless and 18points behind league winners, scoreless in the CL semi vs Man utd before Guardiola took over. So much revisionism

Next thing will be posts of how great Sterling, Sane, Fernandinho, Walker, Otamendi Delph Stones, Ederson have always been all their life before meeting Pep
Once again. Never said he was a bad coach he is a fantastic coach if he can get the players he wants. The point I am making is he is very overrated. That does not mean he is bad it means the people who have said he is one of the greatest blah blah are high. He isn't even the best coach in the past 10 years let alone all time. No one said he is a bad coach.
 

JJ12

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If you chose a simplistic way to look at it. 7 semi finals are about the same Ferguson made all his career

This greatest team just finished trophyless and 18points behind league winners, scoreless in the CL semi vs Man utd before Guardiola took over. So much revisionism

Next thing will be posts of how great Sterling, Sane, Fernandinho, Walker, Otamendi Delph Stones, Ederson have always been all their life before meeting Pep
Fernandinho was good before. Sane was signed young, so who knows what he would be without Pep.

Sterling is playing outstanding - but he's naturally peaking. Pep's system has helped, yes.

The rest are shit with him and will be after him.
 

ThierryHenry14

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I can't wait to see the title in 2 years
"Ole is bobbins considering the assets & resources he has. Discuss (ting)"
 

FutbolFan

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Strange logic really. No nuance left in life.

Both Liverpool and City have played fantastic football. Better than even some of past Champions. But sure when one of them looses the title, they "bottled" it and coach deserves sacking.

Lord knows Man Utd would have been a completely different beast with Pep
 

Sir Scott McToMinay

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Im talking his whole career as a whole.

Guardiola never got sacked because he always coached the best fecking team in the league by a country mile:lol:
I have disproved that barca myth before too and also that crop of world class players were all coming thru. He had an impact for sure but Pep just does not have the same quality as Mourinho as a coach. However far you think he has declined the truth is everywhere he has gone under any team he has done the business.

Even his "failure' at Man United he won 3 trophies. One being a European one. His failure is at united is more down to the joke of a board they have and the snowflake players they have who think their shet don't stink. (yes he has some blame too).

As of right now Guardiola cant hold up a candle to what Jose has accomplished in his career. Which is still far from over though I agree he has declined and confidence has faltered. Sir Alex had a similar period and bounced back.
Wow, I had no idea people still rate Mourinho to such an extent.
“Pep does not have the same quality as a coach” is absolutely ridiculous claim.
There’s more to coaching than parking the bus you know?
Mourinho’s record working with young players is an absolute joke, his throwing players under the bus tactics failed on him twice and he kept doing it the third time? Which goes to show that he doesn’t learn from his mistakes (which completely takes the similarities with SAF out of the question, because there are none).
Had with stuck with him we would have had a bunch of has been players over 30 on 250k a week.
He’s been average the past decade, his football is shite, he wouldn’t know a young talent even if he fell on him from above, he is utterly toxic and there are far better managers than him out there.

I don’t even like Pep, but his impact on the game and what he has created with. Barcelona is something Mourinho will never and has never achieved.
Good and proactive football will always prevail, down the line and down the history books.

You’re absurdly biased and therefore there’s absolutely no reason for to waste my time.
I hope Mourinho coaches your team and when Boavista knocks you out of your local cup competition he’ll talk about how Sporting should be used to getting knocked out by some shite team because it already happened.

Mourinho isn’t even that good at parking the bus, Rafa Benitez schooled him twice in the CL, in his own game, with far inferior team.
 
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Z1L3

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He has been trash in CL post Barca that's for sure.

Domestic manager only at the moment.
He wouldn't have won CL with Barca either if it wasn't for the refereeing scandals.
 

padr81

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Martial was 36m
Pogba 89m
Shaw 30m
Baily 30m

And i haven't even checked the rest

Whatever source you're taking that from is counting the add ons too some of which haven't been reached yet.
You already paid at least one of the extra's on Martial. One was for him reaching 25 goals, I think 25 international caps is next and being nominated for Balon D'Or. All other clubs prices on there factor in add ons too. its from www.transfermarkt.co.uk and seems pretty accurate, pretty much every City price in there includes add on's too compared to announced prices.
 

SportingCP96

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Wow, I had no idea people still rate Mourinho to such an extent.
“Pep does not have the same quality as a coach” is absolutely ridiculous claim.
There’s more to coaching than parking the bus you know?
Mourinho’s record working with young players is an absolute joke, his throwing players under the bus tactics failed on him twice and he kept doing it the third time? Which goes to show that he doesn’t learn from his mistakes (which completely takes the similarities with SAF out of the question, because there are none).
Had with stuck with him we would have had a bunch of has been players over 30 on 250k a week.
He’s been average the past decade, his football is shite, he wouldn’t know a young talent even if he fell on him from above, he is utterly toxic and there are far better managers than him out there.

I don’t even like Pep, but his impact on the game and what he has created with. Barcelona is something Mourinho will never and has never achieved.
Good and proactive football will always prevail, down the line and down the history books.

You’re absurdly biased and therefore there’s absolutely no reason for to waste my time.
I hope Mourinho coaches your team and when Boavista knocks you out of your local cup competition he’ll talk about how Sporting should be used to getting knocked out by some shite team because it already happened.

Mourinho isn’t even that good at parking the bus, Rafa Benitez schooled him twice in the CL, in his own game, with far inferior team.
I done care what Mourinho does in his career one bit so its not about being biased but that he gets so much undeserved hate on here its laughable.

Also you can say whatever you want about Pep and Barca but pep will never do what Mourinho did with Porto and Inter EVER I would put my house on that. Making incredible teams or inheriting them is all fun and games in a 1 horse league until you get out coached.

Say whatever you want about Mourinho's pragmatic football but it works ( or rather did work) Ask Porto or inter fans if they care.

Also this park the bus shite is retarded. It is a big part of his tactics (because defense wins titles) but as he shown in Madrid he can play great attacking football.

My Favorite coach of all time is Sir Alex so its not "bias" he is not even a Sporting fan at all its about how overrated pep is when he has done feck all with less and is less proven while Mourinho gets shitted on for fun.

Porto and inter CL are worth a lot more than his for Barca. which are the only he ever won.
 

SportingCP96

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I know! That Jedi shit!

If only Fraudiola could have mind controlled Aguero and Muller sufficiently, eh?
2...different...games! :wenger::wenger::wenger: Di Matteo never faced guardiolas Bayern:lol:
 

SportingCP96

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"He only parks the bus"

*Record for most goals EVER in a la Liga season

Yet I am "biased" ok :lol:
 

Canagel

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I've been out here laughing at Guardiola all day but it's a joke to bring Mourinho into the same sentence. Mourinho had not been relevant in CL football for 4 years.
 

padzilla

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Let’s say City did sack him who the hell would they replace him with?
 

SportingCP96

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I've been out here laughing at Guardiola all day but it's a joke to bring Mourinho into the same sentence. Mourinho had not been relevant in CL football for 4 years.
I agree but we are talking about the whole of a career and just the last 4 Years to fit a narrative.
 

padr81

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Save what time? He dropped KDB for two holding midfielders, Bernardo Silva didn't even feature while Sane shouldn/t have even bothered showing up. Those are three massive calls and three pragmatic decisions.
Remember when Jose was the devil for dropping Pogba, Martial and Rashford for that Sevilla first leg? Why is the first leg any different for Pep? Even then United actually achieved what they set out to do.
Look at the difference in how fans are talking about his treatment of Sane to Jose and Martial / Rashford.
There's a double standard around Pep that's mind boggling to me. Is it because they disguise their defensive play with over rotation of the ball that fools people? Liverpool have put them under severe pressure in the league and now look at what they're doing. It's score a goal, shut up shop by keeping the ball and getting the second if it presents itself. They've been one defensive lapse away from a disaster for 5/6 weeks now.
They've been winning narrowly for a while now and their style has caught up with them. Should be out of the FA cup and out of Europe and I'm certain it's going to catch up with them in the league.
Bottling is too strong of a word but he's certainly trying to shut down and play out games a lot more in this run in.
While I was annoyed with the set up, KDB was on the mend from injury and Bernardo was actually injured. Sane has been nothing but a rotation player all season, he's always been vying with Mahrez for the when Bernardo is not on the wing spot. Pep played Bernardo Sterling many times ahead of Sane with Gundogan, Fernandinho and D Silva in the middle this season because for whatever reason he doesn't fancy Sane. He even said before this game "leroy knows why he doesn't play more" or words to that effect.

The nature of both defeats are completely different, United go completely dominated in Spain, 25 shots to 6, 8 on target to 1. Then got outplayed at Old Trafford. Pep is not without his share of the blame but you are arguing about two completely different levels of failure along with intentionally misusing facts (the 3 players he didn't play all had legit reasons not to play). United mustered 4 shots on target in 2 legs, City had 10 on target and 30 shots on goal over the 2 legs.

To compare both games.
United had 20 shots to Sevilla's 46. United had 4 shots on target over 2 legs to Sevilla's 14.
City had 30 shots to Spurs 24. City had 10 on target over the 2 legs to Spurs 9.

One was an even game that a team lost on away goals, the other was an absolute pasting over 180 minutes.

If Pep had got bent over like that he'd 100% rightly be called out for his decisions like Jose. But expecting him to play injured players and calling both games remotely the same is miles from reality.
 

Tom Van Persie

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Every club Pep's been to are already the top dog in their league or has an unlimited budget (City) Mourinho's achievements at Porto and Inter are much more impressive than Pep's. No denying he's a fantastic manager and one of the all time greats but I put Mourinho above him.
 

Canagel

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I agree but we are talking about the whole of a career and just the last 4 Years to fit a narrative.
Yeah I meant the current Mourinho. His last two knockout exits vs Seville and PSG 2015 were shambles.
Their whole careers comparsion is up to be debated but Mourinho's prime has long gone.
Hes done nothing himself in the CL since 2010.
 
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Sauldogba

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Best manager of the last decade for me but he has seriously underachieved with Bayern and now City.
With the squad hes had,and the money hes spent he should be winning the Champions League.
Ive said it before and ill say it again, that Bayern team he inherited had another Champions League in it and he ruined it by needlessly changing it and implimenting his tiki taka.
He took them a step back regardless of his performance in the League says.
Heynckes Bayern imo was one of the most talented teams ive seen win it.
Also people need to stop acting like Mourinho,Fergie and Pep arent all special in their own right.
They are all tier 1 managers. All be it Fergies the best one.
For now.
 

Hughie77

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Is Quarter finals good enough for that group of players ? Fair to say it was for us pretty much, St Pep was running up and down when VAR, was looking at a offside, if same was at Swansea they wouldn't be in FA cup as well,
They will win Prem now, but it's the holy grail they can't get there hands on, next season now same as us.
 

Hugh Jass

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Someone just has to make a meme of him with his hands on his head, knees on the ground, when he realizes it is offside. Just brilliant.
 

Sir Scott McToMinay

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“Pep wouldn’t have won the CL with Inter like Jose did”
I’m not sure where this idea came from but it’s stupid and utterly hypothetical.

-Rodgers and later Laudrup at Swansea, and Poch at Southampton, shown that you can play possession and proactive football with inferior players, to some level of success.
Now, you take a team like Inter, who are bigger and richer than Soton, and you take Pep who is a better coach than Rodgers or Soton’s Poch, and you can achieve some real success.

Another thing that's doing my nut in, about WC players like Messi or managers like Pep needing to win stuff with inferior teams to be hailed as real greats.
Why the feck would Pep go to Inter when he can work with Lahm, Alaba and Ribery at Bayern and create something truly great?
Why the feck should he go to Porto or Aberdeen or someplace? His career looks different from Mourinho’s because he literally won the treble in his first season as a manager and he could get whichever job he wanted with the possibilities or creating an all time great side.

Did Scholes had to test himself at Everton? or Pogba at Celta Vigo?
Some people’s careers take off right from the get go, it shouldn’t leave a mark on their careers.

Why would anyone ever downgrade their career out of choice?
 
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Bwuk

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Would of loved Pep at United.

Our squad wouldn't be in the state it is now. He wouldn't of kept the likes of Smalling, Young, Jones. They'd either be sold or their contracts not renewed.

Pep is ruthless.
 

Steele

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@JJ12 Walker, Otamendi, Stones, Delph and Ederson are shiit? Those are basically the back five with whom he got 100 points with last term.
 

Full bodied red

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Denigrate or worship Old Baldy as much as you like....

There are two people behind the scenes at City who have proved much more important than Mancini, Pellegrini and Old Baldy himself.

Mansour - who provides the cash-no-problem situation, which then allows....

Begeristian - who for the past five years has provided an endless stream of affordable and good players for whichever manager, and compared to our own recruitment these past five years appears to be some sort of genius.

Hearetbreaking to say it, but they have left us looking like amateurs.
 
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horsechoker

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A fraud that took over a team that rijkaard built and was lucky to have messi xavi and iniesta. Yes I know barca under franks last season weren’t playing great but he turned them from europa league team that was competing against Celtic into a powerhouse of European football again. Ronaldinho played against Celtic in the uefa cup for Barca In his first season....
Rijkaard has proved how much better he is than Pep since then
 

adexkola

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@JJ12 Walker, Otamendi, Stones, Delph and Ederson are shiit? Those are basically the back five with whom he got 100 points with last term.
True, but they pulled up chairs in every game, seeing they had no work to do, since the front 6 was enough for the opposing 11.

Or something. Still trying to figure it out.
 

JDoe

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True, but they pulled up chairs in every game, seeing they had no work to do, since the front 6 was enough for the opposing 11.

Or something. Still trying to figure it out.
They are certainly not shit (bar Delph), they costed what, 200m for the other four? We're talking about the most expensive back five ever here if we include Mendy, and they were bought mostly BEFORE the market got real crazy... It's not like they've been hidden gems or something before they moved to City.
 

Kaglish10

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A fraud that took over a team that rijkaard built and was lucky to have messi xavi and iniesta. Yes I know barca under franks last season weren’t playing great but he turned them from europa league team that was competing against Celtic into a powerhouse of European football again. Ronaldinho played against Celtic in the uefa cup for Barca In his first season....
I actually think it was Luis Aragones who laid down the template and blue print for Pep at Barca, not Rijkaard.

Prior to 2008 season under Pep, the likes of Xavi, and Iniesta had just won the 2008 euros while being the main core of the spanish midfield. Pep only needed to build on this midfield at Barca. I think Pep should have Arangones to thank because it was him who revamped the game of Xavi and Iniesta and made them a core of his Spanish midfield. He was the one who reshaped Xavi from the no 6 he used to be at Barca to a fantastic no 8 and ensured Iniesta was no longer a utility player he once was but a core part of the Spanish midfield.

If Aragones hadn't laid down the precedent with Xavi, Pep could have continued with Xavi in the no 6 role, considering his love for a technical no 6, which was the reason he replaced Yaya with Busquets (a good replacement though). Also, Iniesta may not have been a core player in his midfield but rather remained the utility player he was.

After 2008 euro, Pep couldn't have been happier to realise he would be managing the new look Spanish core midfield that just had a terrific euro tournament. All he needed to do was to find an equivalent to Marcos Senna in the holding midfield role and an equivalent forward to David Villa, which was the reason he signed Thierry Henry. Pep had wanted David Villa as well but couldn't come to agreement with his club and wasn't really prioritised, especially after seeing Eto'o terrific performance in the striker role. Also, there was Messi, who was already one of the best talent out there to have on the wing.

Suffice to say it was Arangones who laid down the blueprint and template for Spain and by extension to Barca while Pep continued to build upon it at Barca.

That being said, I don't think Pep's managerial skills should be questioned despite the obvious talent and luck he had at Barca. He's proved that he can be a force to reckon, even while at City. However, he's become pragmatic and too stubborn these days. It was like he was trying to prove a point to the media that his omission of Sane was right. Rather than play Bernardo on the wing, he should have been deployed in the place of the tired ageing Silva in the midfield while Sane would give them more directness on the wing thereby forcing back Spurs attack. Without Sane, City only had Aguero as the only player who could force play with his direct approach. Sterling is more of a goal scorer who loves using his movement to get on the end of play than be the one to force play hence City needed someone like Sane who could force play on the other wing and give Spurs something to worry about, considering Spurs was operating narrow and the wing was there to be taken. But I feel Pep just wanted to prove a point to people/media who criticised him for not playing Sane in the first leg, which is actually still a mystery to me because I don't know why he didn't play Sane in the first leg.
 
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AP88

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Name a better manager in world football right now.
You reckon Guardiola would do better than Klopp and Pochettino have with their current squads?

Do you think he’d have gotten that United team to finish second last season like Jose did? With Young and Valencia as his fullbacks flanking Jones and Smalling and Jesse fecking Lingard as his #10?

His achievements have to be judged relative to his resources, and he SHOULD have won the league last season, as he should have at Bayern and Barca - he should have also done more in Europe at Bayern and City too.

Last night he had Stones, Sane, Mahrez, Fernandinho, Otamendi and Jesus ON THE BENCH FFS. Every one of those players would start for and improve practically every other team in the league, and primarily be key players too.

He’s never overachieved in his career, so it’s impossible to declare him great.
 

Robbo's Shoulder

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No doubting Pep is a fantastic coach when given the money and players to work with but until he actually builds a side from scratch i'll always have a question mark over him. His CL record post Barca is poor to say the least. If he loses out to Liverpool in the league it means 1PL title out of 3, not the record for a so called managerial genius, given the players and funds he has at his disposal. Add in a United, Arsenal and Chelsea in transition, the juries still out for me.
 

PSingh

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Fernandinho was good before. Sane was signed young, so who knows what he would be without Pep.

Sterling is playing outstanding - but he's naturally peaking. Pep's system has helped, yes.

The rest are shit with him and will be after him.
It’s clear he’s improved Sterling. I doubt it’s solely down to his ‘system’, it’s more likely to be because of Pep’s coaching.
 

africanspur

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Fair points. I just think you need to make the next step. I see shades of Villarreal with Spurs atm, albeit you have much bigger support and better facilities. I just can't help but think it you don't make the step someone is going to come along and pillage you guys. I mean if Real were to come calling to HK and Eriksen in the summer, could Levy really fend them off whilst keeping his wage structure intact. Things like that are my biggest concern for you guys. As someone said if the football bubble does burst you guys are the best run club and will almost certainly be the biggest benefactors.

With Villarreal it looked like they were getting into a position to kick on and win major trophies similar to Spurs (albeit a smaller club), everyone was thinking its coming soon, but it never came. Even though you are a direct rival and I sometimes take the piss I hope Spurs can keep it together because it would be a victory for football that I genuinely didn't and still don't believe is possible anymore.
I agree and I think we've already started doing that, smashing the wage structure for Kane and offering pretty elite wages.

I actually think we're coming to the end of this cycle of players this summer. Dembele gone, very good chance Eriksen and Alderweireld will be, probably Llorente and Vorm, Vertonghen getting older, Rose potentially expendable (and Trippier), as well as a few others. I think we may see a reasonable amount of movement this summer. Kane isn't going anywhere this summer but I think there is a very good chance Eriksen will move and I don't think its down to just wages by any means, I think he wants to win trophies and he wants to play for an elite club. As much as I love Spurs, we are not a sure bet for trophies and not currently an elite club so can't fault him for that. He's always talked of his love for Barcelona (and I'm sure he wouldn't mind Real either....) so if one of them come in this summer, he's gone imo.

My slight sadness was that this cycle of players would be coming to an end without a trophy.....if we were to somehow win the biggest trophy of all....I think that would be it for me. :D I'd probably just stop watching football and be content with my lot!

I get what you're saying and things in football are always very fluid but I think we have a much more solid base than Villarreal now, even if we have to sell top players or if (god forbid) Poch leaves.
 

Josh 76

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Now the dust as settled a little, I can't believe how Pep is getting criticised for his team selections in the CL v Spurs.
He played it safe in the first leg and lost to a silly goal , in which City were always in control. He knew he would score goals in the second leg, which they scored 4, but can't be responsible for Laporte and Ederson to have a crap 10 minutes. Spurs just got lucky.
Fighting on 4 fronts was never going to be easy. Credit to Pep to have the balls to try it.
This title would be over , if City crashed out of the two cup competitions earlier like Klopp chose to do. To achieve 195/198 points in two seasons is unprecedented.
 

africanspur

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You're miles ahead of Everton and Villa now. You're revenue is 8% higher than Juve's! It's 40% more than Athletico's. Juve regularly spend in excess of £77m. Their net spend is £60m per season over the last 3 seasons, but that includes the sale of Pogba.



Yeah, but I think you can go too far the other way too. There's a fine line between intelligent prudence and reckless cautiousness.



Similar resources in the sense that if you wanted to spend what City have, you have the revenues to be able to. 20 years ago, City were in League One. 10 years ago, they finished 10th in The Premier League. Yes, they have had the money, but they also now have the revenues to maintain their status. So do you, but you don't have the same ambition, for fear of what might happen if you fail.



Or clubs that can guarantee they have the ambition to compete.
Yes it is, which has happened over the past few years, with regular improvements on and off the field. It is precisely because we haven't spent beyond our means that we've been able to grow like this. And again, the Juventus thing...literally just happened. This past financial year, once you take into account new commercial relationships and the increased attendances at Wembley. Their revenue has been 50-70+ million more than ours for years and years (in fact, 5 years ago, it was over 100 million more than us). Juventus are also the biggest club in Italy, are guaranteed CL football every season and have the small matter of 7 straight league titles.

It also includes the purchase of a certain Portugese superstar. The net spend is highly influenced by the anomalous last summer window. The 5 seasons before that, Juventus spent £120 million net total or £24mil/season. Even with last season's splurge, the average goes up to £56m/season.

I'm also not sure where you even the City £77 million from, they've spent about £110 million net a season for the last 5 seasons.

It 100% can go the other way as well. I would say we've gone too far in the other direction in the last 2 windows, though as I said to Padr81, we were clearly very close to signing De Jong last summer so were clearly trying and willing to spend big money. I'm hopeful we'll be spending more money in the upcoming seasons and out wage structure has already significantly changed.

Yeah I wonder what happened to City so that City could spend what they have...FFs, even the financial behemoth that is Man Utd can't spend the same as City. Abrahmovich has given up pumping in as much money as he usually does. Liverpool don't come anywhere near the spending of City. I can't believe you're genuinely trying to argue that we have similar resources to City, I've never come across anyone who has tried to suggest that, even before the matter of the stadium payments is taken into account. Nobody can spend like they do, other than PSG. And they're not spending their own money either.

If Joe Lewis put his own money in, I'm sure we could spend a bit more. We could definitely spend more than we have but we can't spend anywhere near Man City. And they have ambition...because they have the funds of a small country behind them (literally). I'm sure we'd be super 'ambitious' if the Emir of Kuwait bought the club. Until that happens though, we'll have to live without our means. Again, going back to my earlier example. The man who comes back with a £2000 Nissan Micra isn't afraid of failure. He's just not an idiot who has bought a £100k car on credit when he has only £2k to his name.

Right, I'm sure what would interest Eriksen in Barcelona is just the ambition, as opposed to their history, almost guaranteed trophies, opportunity to play with the likes of Messi and raised wages. If we spent £50 million a season, he'd turn them down and stay at Spurs.