Gun control

[Chabon]

Here's the quote

Rep. Louie Gohmert(R-TX): “I wish to God she would have had an M4 in her office locked up. so when she heard gunfire she pulls it out and she didn’t have to lunge heroically with nothing in her hands, But she takes him out, takes his head off before he could kill those precious kids.”

America will never be cured of madness like this because the constitution is so deeply flawed and the entire notion of an almost irreproachable written constitution is fundamentally broken. It's best described as political autism, and there's a reason so few countries have aped it.

 

[Plechazunga]

I'm waiting for somebody to suggest gun towers with a trained sniper at every school. Create employment and increase security!

How about combining your and McArdle's ideas - a gun turret, but with a cannon that actually fires small children?

 

[Arruda]

I once wandered into a survivalist forum and lurked for a few hours. Granted that many of the skills they learn and discuss there can potentially be very useful, but most of them did seem paranoid nut jobs.

 

[fishfingers15]

It's heart wrenching to read through these topics and news related to the shootings. While the loss of these children are to be mourned, don't forget the children dying in other poxy wars fought for power mongering around the world at this moment.

Such a waste of life.

 

[Member 39557]

How about combining your and McArdle's ideas - a gun turret, but with a cannon that actually fires small children?

Perhaps the Children could wear Ewok costumes? Then we'd really be onto a winning idea.

 

[njred]

Right now Obama is dealing with hostility from the GOP with the fiscal cliff looming. I have a feeling, that he will push much harder in 2 weeks.
Problem is, now is the time. He can't run for another term,so he should be screaming for control.

 

[Plechazunga]

He can scream all he likes. He runs one of three co-equal branches of government, one belongs to the gun lobby, the other belongs to the Democrats, who ARE running for another term. And who can't afford to lose much more of the working-class white vote, and have other legislative priorities they consider more important.

 

[Saliph]

Gun nuts don't vote Democrat anyway.

 

[gooDevil]

Indeed, and why anyone countering them hasnt brought up the raw figures instead of pussy footing around I dont know.

Since Martin Luther King was shot dead, over 1 million americans have been killed on american soil by gun violence.

Thats more than all wars, terrorist activity and inter country 'skirmishes' combined globally during the same period.

80 Americans a day die by gunshot.

There are, for every 100 citizens of the US, 88 guns in public ownership.

There are 50 per 100 citizens in Iraq, a fecking war zone.

Of European countries, Switzerland has the highest at 40 , or half the US level of ownership. That doesnt sound too bad, until you realise that Switzerland has national service for every adult male in the country, who are required BY LAW to keep their gun at the end.

So the US has twice the gun ownership of a country whos entire adult male populous are trained Militia required under law to be armed for the defence of the nation.

And the argument is still, there are not enough guns.

When you compare it to the death counts from wars it does make quite an impression. If anything else was killing that many people, there would be panic and outrage.

 

[Adzzz]

Gun nuts don't vote Democrat anyway.

Exactly, as MM said: Obama should give the NRA an actual reason to hate him because they do anyway.

 

[Plechazunga]

Gun nuts don't vote Democrat anyway.

A quarter of Democratic-voting households have guns.

 

[Saliph]

A quarter of Democratic-voting households have guns.

Well, just having a gun in your home doesn't really qualify you as a "gun nut" in my opinion, certainly not in the US. When I say gun nut I'm talking about the "from my cold dead hands", assault weapon-carrying militia types. Bill Maher has a gun, but he regularly slams the Democratic surrender on gun control.

 

[adexkola]

How about combining your and McArdle's ideas - a gun turret, but with a cannon that actually fires small children?

Each toting a tec9 and a desert eagle

 

[nimic]

I, too, play Counter-strike.

 

[Red Dreams]

I don't think that would work. Any Dr signing that a patient was mentally stable enough to use a gun would be considered liable if that patient subsequently proved not to be. Indemnity insurers would have a field day, and Drs would start refusing to sign just to cover their backs.

We have a similar situation in vet medicine - our indemnity insurers teach us that when asked the question "is this horse now safe to ride" the answer is always "no".

you are right. But a letter saying the person is 'not being treated for any medical or mental issues' could be a start.

 

[SteveJ]

The massacre of innocents at a primary school in Newtown, Connecticut, on Friday was indeed, as President Obama put it, heart-breaking. His halting, grieving address to the nation captured the pain that is felt in the immediate aftermath of such a shocking event. But the pain will not last, for it has happened before – and no American politician will have the nerve to propose the only cure to this repetitive insanity, which would be a sensible, mature and responsible attitude towards the ownership and use of guns. He would never be elected to public office again.

Brian Masters: America's deadly obsession with guns ~

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...9024/Americas-deadly-obsession-with-guns.html

 

[Grinner]

A quarter of Democratic-voting households have guns.

I have a gun in my home. I'd happily give it up for strict gun control.

 

[utdalltheway]

Sanity and American politics don't mix well.
There are too many nutjobs out there living in their own fantasy world that has them with an arms cache stored in their homes, awaiting the uprising and chaos that's surely coming. They live in fear that gangs of minorities (read blacks) or the government is about to come after them any day now.

I've heard this from people I've worked with. It's actually kinda scary how crazy they are.
if you want to hear more of these nutjobs just listen to any conservative talk radio show and prepare to be amazed.

 

[Grinner]

Americans have been taught to be afraid since the end of WW2. When big business saw that it was an effective tool for making money, they perfected it and have used it to shape foreign and domestic policy ever since.

 

[utdalltheway]

that's true. selling fear is what keeps the military machine and consquently the defence industry busy.

 

[Arruda]

I think the most interesting number to know is not how many Americans die by gunshot each day, but how many die by a gunshot that wouldn't occur if America had a ban on weapons for the general citizen. I suppose much of the killings due to gang violence would still occur, as would those consequent to armed robberies and the like.

What concerns me more is the average Joe who never committed a crime that gets home and finds his wife with a lover, goes to the cabinet and shoots them both in a fit of rage. Something he would be unlikely to try (or to succeed) with his own hands or in a more premeditated fashion.

These mass murderers like the current case fall into the same category, I'd guess. It's the easiness that presents the opportunity. Most of these guys seem so socially awkward, harmless in some way (until they tip over), I just can't see these nerds approaching a street gang to buy military grade weaponry. Also, would they find as much ammo, and as cheaply, in a black market?

Paradoxically, I feel safer in a country where only criminals (and security forces of course) have weapons than I would in a country where everyone would have weapons.
I still remember a video posted some time ago where an old man with a handgun shoots and scares away a pair of armed robbers in a public store or something like that. Well, it turned out good then, because the guys were cowardly bluffers, but feck me if I want some patriotic hero turning a robbery where the worse that could happen to me would be to lose my watch and my cell phone into a bloody wild west saloon with crossfire and a potential hostage situation.

 

[711]

I used to find it slightly irritating that Obama (and others) couldn't say three sentences without including 'greatest nation on earth'.

Now I wonder, greatest at what?

 

[Grinner]

It's been pointed out elsewhere that the 2nd Amendment says nothing about a right to ammunition. Make it impossible to buy ammo and you'd solve the problem and all the freaks get to keep their toys.

 

[Verminator]

As the 2nd ammendment was written in 1791, allow only 18th century weapons to be included.

http://thewoundedbird.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/firearms-of-late-18th-century.html

With a 2 minute reload rate, mortality would be greatly reduced.

 

[utdalltheway]

It's been pointed out elsewhere that the 2nd Amendment says nothing about a right to ammunition. Make it impossible to buy ammo and you'd solve the problem and all the freaks get to keep their toys.

Chris Rock had a similar idea in one of his stand up shows. Charge so much per bullet that people wouldn't be wasting shots. "I'd pop a cap in your ass - if I could afford it".

 

[Grinner]

Chris Rock had a similar idea in one of his stand up shows. Charge so much per bullet that people wouldn't be wasting shots. "I'd pop a cap in your ass - if I could afford it".

Yeah that was what I saw. It's a good idea but I expect it'd be easy to get anything you needed from Canada or Mexico.

 

[Platato]

I have a gun in my home. I'd happily give it up for strict gun control.

To the pro-gun crowd, they'd say you're forfeiting your protection. Do you feel you would be?

 

[utdalltheway]

maybe a combination of measures. there are so many guns out there now that banning them today would take years to have a real effect. the black market on them would sustain demand for a long time. And that's without the influx from Canada and Mexico as Grinner mentioned.
I'm not sure what the answer is but mental health treatment has to be part of it.

so a full frontal assault (so to speak) on the issue would go a long way. piecemeal efforts won't do shit.

 

[Grinner]

Nope....I would just switch it out for a baseball bat and a can of mace. Or I might just get a shotgun depending on the law.

 

[gooDevil]

Guns are awfully expensive, getting a non-lethal weapon might actually be cheaper in some cases. There would be a huge rush for those guns that shoot bean-bags or shock people, which could keep the firearms companies happy.

 

[Grinner]

Yeah...a tazer is a pretty good home defence option.

I hate the term home defence though.

 

[ukbob]

What you have to remember is that the average American is completely different in the way Eoropeans and in particular the English think. They are brought up completely differently, have a different mind set.
All of this will blow over and that is when the NRA etc. will all come out with their interpretation of events. I have had many discussions with Americans on this issue and NOT ONE advocated stricter gun control. they put the blame fairly and squarly on the shoulders of parents and the society we live in today. We bring our children up in a violent world supported by greedy corporations that will promote anything that earns them money and just could not care a less about the welfare of the minds of the children they corrupt. Not my words by the way.

 

[Mockney]

..in a violent world supported by greedy corporations that will promote anything that earns them money ..

Like guns?

The whole "you've got to understand, it's a different culture" thing just washes straight over me. You might as well be talking about stoning women or supporting the death penalty for gays (which, incidentally, Americans don't seem to think are mere innocent cultural differences when they're supporting wars overseas) I don't care if it's culturally ingrained, it's stupid, retarded, violent & dangerous.

If you want to talk about parenting, then if they can't behave, daddy Obama should give them a smack and take away their toys.

 

[gooDevil]

Of course it doesn't help that 1 in 4 Americans expect Armageddon to happen in their lifetimes.

 

[nimic]

People are suddenly cultural relativists when it comes to guns.

 

[Red Dreams]

Like guns?

The whole "you've got to understand, it's a different culture" thing just washes straight over me. You might as well be talking about stoning women or supporting the death penalty for gays (which, incidentally, Americans don't seem to think are mere innocent cultural differences when they're supporting wars overseas) I don't care if it's culturally ingrained, it's stupid, retarded, violent & dangerous.

If you want to talk about parenting, then if they can't behave, daddy Obama should give them a smack and take away their toys.

think they do that in Idaho already...

 

[adexkola]

Like guns?

The whole "you've got to understand, it's a different culture" thing just washes straight over me. You might as well be talking about stoning women or supporting the death penalty for gays (which, incidentally, Americans don't seem to think are mere innocent cultural differences when they're supporting wars overseas) I don't care if it's culturally ingrained, it's stupid, retarded, violent & dangerous.

If you want to talk about parenting, then if they can't behave, daddy Obama should give them a smack and take away their toys.

It matters when you're talking about the practicality of implementing strict gun control. Yes they're stupid. Yes they're backwards. But they exist. Until their generation is wiped off, calling them stupid on a forum won't do nothing.

 

[Mockney]

It matters when you're talking about the practicality of implementing strict gun control. Yes they're stupid. Yes they're backwards. But they exist. Until their generation is wiped off, calling them stupid on a forum won't do nothing.

Very true. It's more of a cathartic thing for us Europeans. We're incredibly frustrated by the lunacy of it all, and our only outlet is to rage on a forum. SAF isn't going to listen to anything we say on here either, but we rant away anyways.

Plus I find the "utopia wont happen so lets give up" attitude so depressingly defeatist. If you're just waiting for the old gen to die off, then why not take steps to make the transition easier when it comes? Help shape the new generation more sensibly, ostracize the outdated, prevent the old nutters from instilling the same attitudes in their children and maybe save a few kids from getting their ears blown off in the mean time.

Spoiler

The lesson is, never try

 

[Wibble]

If you're just waiting for the old gen to die off, then why not take steps to make the transition easier when it comes?

I see where you are going with this. Gun laws plainly need to be far less restrictive if we are to achieve this aim so that we can effect real change.

 

[Mockney]

Did you watch the Piers Morgan clip Wibbs? What d'you make of the pro-gun guy saying the Aussie ban had no effect as the crime rate was already falling and that crime actually got worse?