Haaland vs Mbappe - Heirs Apparent

Who do you think will win the Ballon d'Or first?

  • Erling Braut Haaland

  • Kylian Mbappé Lottin


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Oly Francis

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French league is farmers league, let’s not pretend it isn’t. BL is considered weaker league in general as compared to Spain and England etc, as there are many top attacking players over there who couldn’t do it elsewhere. (Werner, Havertz, Dembele, Mkhit, Kagawa etc)
But yes, both are good players who does well in CL and international stage too. I am not questioning their talent at all, but just saying their total numbers maybe inflated as they are playing in league where it’s far easier to score as compared to Spain and England.
And you also have players like Salah who scored 16 goals in Serie A and 32 the season after when he was transfered to premier league.
France and Germany are indeed weaker leagues then spain or england (well i actually think that bundes might be in the mix with spain this season) but calling them "farmers leagues" when players who perform well in these competition do equally well when the reach the CL is a bit silly imo.
 

Oly Francis

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It's hard to take anybody that says farmer's league seriously, unfortunately it's a lot of people even on here. The French league is a harder league to score in than the Bundesliga for example, and there's many examples of Ligue 1 player coming to England and performing better, the main issue with it is that the talents get exported, whereas in Germany, similarly to England, there's a tendency to stay put and not explore other leagues.
Yeah, the thing is we don't have a lot of examples of good players going from PL to Ligue 1 for exemple because it's just not as popular. But players like Payet for exemple were actually better in PL than they were after coming back to Ligue 1.
 

RedRonaldo

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And you also have players like Salah who scored 16 goals in Serie A and 32 the season after when he was transfered to premier league.
France and Germany are indeed weaker leagues then spain or england (well i actually think that bundes might be in the mix with spain this season) but calling them "farmers leagues" when players who perform well in these competition do equally well when the reach the CL is a bit silly imo.
I never said it’s easier to score in Italy, I am only talking about French League and BL. There are far too many flops from over there in recent years.

And you are getting it wrong. I am not suggesting Mbappe and Haaland would be flop elsewhere, they surely going to be huge success anywhere they go. But their overall numbers in those farmers league so far, I wouldn’t take it as seriously as others. But their numbers in CL and international stage so far are surely impressive.

I am just trying to put things into perspective, that’s all.

Mbappe in PSG (France) - 39 goals in 43 games (best season)
Ibra in PSG - 50 goals in 51 games
Ibra in England - 28 goals in 46 games

Haaland in Dortmund (BL) - 41 goals in 42 games (half season from previous + half season in current)
Werner in Germany - 34 goals in 45 games
Werner in England - 10 goals in 32 games
 
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RedRonaldo

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Mbappé is a WC winner - having the kind of international tournament Henry never even came close to in the process - multiple league winner, and CL runner-up. And he's 22. By individual season/competition he already has a better international tournament than Henry and at least as good of a CL campaign under his belt(16/17 with Monaco). If he wins CL and Euros this year, while playing the way he's done the other night, or in Russia, he could retire at the end of the season and he'd already go down in history as a better/greater player than Henry
Err... what the feck are you talking about? Do you know Henry was WC winner too? He was top scorer in French team when winning WC in 98, he was also top scorer for France when winning Euros, and he won CL for Barca. And he won multiple league titles with Arsenal (2) and Barca (2), proper league titles, not farmers league titles like those Mbappe had won.

Henry
- 1 WC (France top goalscorer)
- 1 Euros (France top goalscorer)
- 1 CL
- 2 PL (without Henry, Arsenal would have no chance of winning)
- 2 La Liga
- 2 golden boot
- 2nd, 3rd place in Ballon D’or
- probably the greatest PL player ever


Mbappe
- 1 WC
- 4 Ligue 1 (no one cares, even without Mbappe PSG would have walk away with those)
- 4th, 6th, 7th place in Ballon D’or
- not even greatest Ligue 1 player yet

He may have better potential in future, but how is he already greater player than Henry, even if he wins CL and Euro this year and retire?
 
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Eire Red United

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Mbappe is easily the better footballer but Haaland is easily the better goalscorer. Aesthetically pleasing vs ruthless efficiency.

One is a World Cup winner, the other will do well to ever even play in one... Legacy wise that's always a big deal.

Ballon d'Or wise I think it will be a mismatch. Mbappe will be in the reckoning every year. Haaland only has a chance in non-tournament years. We've seen the same in the women's d'Or. Ada Hegerberg won in 2018 (non-tournament year) but a year later when she was breaking CL records and scored a CL final hat-trick she had no chance up against the players who had an international tournament that year. Not to mention France Football will always have a slight bias towards the French player.
Still think Haaland will be good enough that he’ll be in the top 3 regardless of internationals.
 

Bearded One

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Let’s do everything to get Haaland. I love the idea of Mbappe but it’s going to be harder to get him. How effective can our Norwegian links be in trying to get Haaland?
 

simonhch

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Mbappe is at least a level above Haaland. Haaland is a very efficient player with deadly movement and clinical finishing, but he’s much more one dimensional than Mbappe, and thus much more likely to get found out as a player. Not saying it’ll happen, but Mbappe has so much more in his locker, and is an absolute joy to watch for purists of the game.
 

giorno

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Err... what the feck are you talking about? Do you know Henry was WC winner too? He was top scorer in French team when winning WC in 98, he was also top scorer for France when winning Euros, and he won CL for Barca. And he won multiple league titles with Arsenal (2) and Barca (2), proper league titles, not farmers league titles like those Mbappe had won.

Henry
- 1 WC (France top goalscorer)
- 1 Euros (France top goalscorer)
- 1 CL
- 2 PL (without Henry, Arsenal would have no chance of winning)
- 2 La Liga
- 2 golden boot
- 2nd, 3rd place in Ballon D’or
- probably the greatest PL player ever


Mbappe
- 1 WC
- 4 Ligue 1 (no one cares, even without Mbappe PSG would have walk away with those)
- 4th, 6th, 7th place in Ballon D’or
- not even greatest Ligue 1 player yet

He may have better potential in future, but how is he already greater player than Henry, even if he wins CL and Euro this year and retire?
Henry won WC for france as a young player, played because of injuries to the starters, scored his goals in the group stage against the weakest opponents they faced, and was quite lietrally a bit part player on that team. In 2000 he was a starter and played well enough, sure, but again he wasn't a star by any means. Mbappé was arguably the best player of the world cup. Certainly France's star ultimately. The closesr Henry got to being that good for France was 2006...and he still wasn't as good.

Henry's best season in europe was 05/06, when he lead arsenal to the final. Mbappé pretty much matched that in his debut season for Monaco

Who cares what henry did in PL? At a time when the PL was the 3rd league in europe? At barcelona he was good in 08/09(when he was like the 6th or 7th best player on the team) and then a bit part player in 09/10

And to be clear, since the argument was purely theoretical and more of an example than to be taken literally: i said *IF* Mbappé wins CL and Euros while being the best player on his teams, of at least unquestiomably a star
 

Raredaredevil

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A number of posters have mentioned that Mbappe has more chance of winning due to France playing in the major tournaments more than Haaland. I beg to differ. Messi, who has won the title 6 times, has a poor record in terms of international tournaments. Ronaldo's Portugal has won the Euro's.

Hence as long as Haaland and Mbappe produce the goods in their respective leagues, win or get to the finals of the CL and top the goal scoring charts they both have a shot despite possibly not doing well in international tournaments. I'm not saying it doesn't help if they do well in them, but I don't think it's got as much pull than it might have done previously when deciding who will win.

I think a lot will come down to injuries and for some reason I think Mbappe will be brilliant over the next few years but Haaland will have the longer career
Are you seriously comparing Norway and Argentina? For all of Argentina's failure, they are still a top international team that make it to every World Cup whereas Norway can't even make it past the qualifying stage. Messi has scored goals in major football tournaments with Argentina but Haaland comes from a country that will be lucky to even get into a major football tournament. In a World Cup and European Cup year, Haaland will always be irrelevant, which doesn't give him the exposure to the worldwide audience.
 

11101

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Yes but let’s not forget both Mbappe and Haaland are still playing in farmers/weaker league where scoring goals are considered easier. 34 year old ibra once scored 50 goals in a season over there in France (overall 156 goals in 180 games), while players like Werner has had good numbers over there in Germany too (34 goals last season).
Now Ronaldo has gone and Messi is getting old I think we are seeing La Liga isnt exactly the toughest league in the world either.
 

11 forwards

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Are you seriously comparing Norway and Argentina? For all of Argentina's failure, they are still a top international team that make it to every World Cup whereas Norway can't even make it past the qualifying stage. Messi hasored goals in major football tournaments with Argentina but Haaland comes from a country that will be lucky to even get into a major football tournament. In a World Cup and European Cup year, Haaland will always be irrelevant, which doesn't give him the exposure to the worldwide audience.
Norway has a fair chance of qualifying for tournaments in the 10 years to come. There hasn't been a more promising young team coming through for a good 25 years.

In any case the France and Argentinas of this world obviously are on another planet. But irrelevant? Top players for underdog teams tend to get a fair amount of exposure too. The "underdog" thing isn't completely dead yet.

Future will tell. That's the intriguing part of it!
 

louvega

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Very different players but Haaland is much better imo.
Mbappe had scored like 5 goals in 3 months prior to the game against Barcelona.
Haaland has scored 18 goals in 13 cl ganes. For Dortmund he scored 41 goals in 68 shots. His numbers are out of this world.
 

RobinLFC

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Henry won WC for france as a young player
Henry was 20, Mbappe was 19 when they won their WCs.

played because of injuries to the starters
Irrelevant.

scored his goals in the group stage against the weakest opponents they faced
Mbappe had one great game in the knock-out stages and that was against Argentina. He was a non-factor against Belgium in fact. Not to mention that France were poor in all of their group stage games as well.

Mbappé was arguably the best player of the world cup. Certainly France's star ultimately.
Was he feck :lol: Hazard was a level above him, and Modric got the Golden Boot.

Who cares what henry did in PL? At a time when the PL was the 3rd league in europe?
Ridiculous argument. Who cares what Mbappe has done in his entire career then, since he's done it in Europe's 5th league?
 

We need an rvn

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Are you seriously comparing Norway and Argentina? For all of Argentina's failure, they are still a top international team that make it to every World Cup whereas Norway can't even make it past the qualifying stage. Messi has scored goals in major football tournaments with Argentina but Haaland comes from a country that will be lucky to even get into a major football tournament. In a World Cup and European Cup year, Haaland will always be irrelevant, which doesn't give him the exposure to the worldwide audience.
I'm not comparing Norway and Argentina - where did I say that? And if I were comparing two countries, which I didn't, wouldn't I be comparing France and Norway as that's who the two players play for???

I'm saying that if you look at Ronaldo and Messi, and neither doing that well in international tournaments (bar Ronaldo's one year with Portugal where they won it) then it doesn't necessarily impact who will win the wold player of the year if the player who wins is such an phenomenon - such as Messi and Ronaldo are. 11 World Player of the Year awards between them and only 1 international trophy right??? Hence it potentially doesn't matter that much if Haaland doesn't play in the world cup etc if he scored 40 odd goals and wins two titles in Europe.
 

sun_tzu

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I see a lot of comparisons here. Ruud vs Henry, Shearer vs Henry, Messi vs Ronaldo etc.

Haaland and Mbappe has a lot more end product than all these guys at the same age and let's hope they are both still far from peaking. Haaland has scored a goal every 90 minutes and contributed to a goal every 72 minutes so far in his senior football career, while Mbappe has scored a goal every 109 minutes and contributed to a goal every 70 minutes of his career so far. These are absolutely insane numbers and there is no doubt in my mind these are extraordinary talents. My point is that these two phenomenons pretty much dwarf all these (and others) legends' early career numbers:

- Henry scored 28 goals in 139 games for Monaco before he left for Juve at 21. He scored 12 in his last 62 games for Monaco....
- Shearer had 9 senior goals to his name when he left Southampton for Blackburn at 22.
- Messi had 42 goals in 110 games for Barca when he turned 21.
- Ruud left Heerenveen at 22 with 14 goals in 36 senior games
- CR7 had 32 goals in 168 games after the season he had turned 21

I really look forward to see this battle unfold the next decade, because it might be better than anything we have seen before.
real aka Brazilian aka fat aka R9 Ronaldo
At 21 years of age his record was
Played 200 games - scored 179 goals - this included his time in brazil, holland and his season at barca and his first season at inter - he also had an additional 44 games and 29 goals for Brazil

Mbappe (at 22 years old) has
played 213 Games - scored 138 goals - he also has 39 caps and 16 goals

Haaland
played 153 games - scored 110 goals (albeit he is still only 20 though has played at a lower level) but still he needs to score 69 goals in his next 47 games to match R9 .... 7 caps and 6 goals as well

Basically they are fantastic - but even as impressive as their early figures are you dont have to go back too much further to find somebody who outperformed them



Ronaldo = 0.895 goals per game at 21
Mbappe = 0.648 Goals per game at 22
Haaland = 0.719 goals per game at 20
Owen = 0.542 goals per game at 22 (205 games and 111 goals... oh and 44 caps and 19 goals)

Basically Ronaldo is further ahead of Mbappe and Haaland than they are of Owen (and owen won a ballon dor at that age - so yes both are phenomenal talents but they are not THE PHENOM)
 
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RedRonaldo

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Henry won WC for france as a young player, played because of injuries to the starters, scored his goals in the group stage against the weakest opponents they faced, and was quite lietrally a bit part player on that team. In 2000 he was a starter and played well enough, sure, but again he wasn't a star by any means. Mbappé was arguably the best player of the world cup. Certainly France's star ultimately. The closesr Henry got to being that good for France was 2006...and he still wasn't as good.

Henry's best season in europe was 05/06, when he lead arsenal to the final. Mbappé pretty much matched that in his debut season for Monaco

Who cares what henry did in PL? At a time when the PL was the 3rd league in europe? At barcelona he was good in 08/09(when he was like the 6th or 7th best player on the team) and then a bit part player in 09/10

And to be clear, since the argument was purely theoretical and more of an example than to be taken literally: i said *IF* Mbappé wins CL and Euros while being the best player on his teams, of at least unquestiomably a star
What the feck are you talking about? You really think winning PL titles during early mid 2000s is nothing as compared to winning Ligue 1 for PSG in current time? What the actual feck?

This is one of the most cringedworthy read I’v ever came across have on redcafe. Surely Henry winning WC and Euro for France (both as France top scorer) is not worth a mention, and Mbappe winning WC will automatically makes him best player in the World Cup for some strange reason no one understood except you. And surely no one cares about winning PL titles during early mid 2000s, same decade when PL teams has produced most CL finalist out of all leagues in Europe. (BTW PL was at its peak during 2000s and widely considered as best league in the world, dominating CL with Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal playing and even winning in multiple finals throughout the decade, whereas Serie A was on steep decline during the around same period due to bribery scandal. So yeh 3rd league in Europe my arse)

Oh and by the way he also lead Arsenal to CL final in 2006,of course it’s not worth a mention as according to you, whereas Mbappe helping PSG reach CL final last season is huge and deserve every praises, as according to you too.

What drugs are you on?
 
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NasirTimothy

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I never said it’s easier to score in Italy, I am only talking about French League and BL. There are far too many flops from over there in recent years.

And you are getting it wrong. I am not suggesting Mbappe and Haaland would be flop elsewhere, they surely going to be huge success anywhere they go. But their overall numbers in those farmers league so far, I wouldn’t take it as seriously as others. But their numbers in CL and international stage so far are surely impressive.

I am just trying to put things into perspective, that’s all.

Mbappe in PSG (France) - 39 goals in 43 games (best season)
Ibra in PSG - 50 goals in 51 games
Ibra in England - 28 goals in 46 games

Haaland in Dortmund (BL) - 41 goals in 42 games (half season from previous + half season in current)
Werner in Germany - 34 goals in 45 games
Werner in England - 10 goals in 32 games
Calling a major European competition a ‘farmer’s League’ is the kind of juvenile discourse that belongs with the 12 year old trolls on Twitter, not on a board that is actually supposed to have people on it that are knowledgeable about football. The German and French leagues are top five leagues in the world, they deserve attendant respect. La Liga and the PL are richer leagues, but the others are still difficult to excel in. Also, most of the stars in the PL are foreigners: if they had to rely on English talent only, it wouldn’t be nearly as good
 

Zehner

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Henry was 20, Mbappe was 19 when they won their WCs.


Irrelevant.


Mbappe had one great game in the knock-out stages and that was against Argentina. He was a non-factor against Belgium in fact. Not to mention that France were poor in all of their group stage games as well.


Was he feck :lol: Hazard was a level above him, and Modric got the Golden Boot.


Ridiculous argument. Who cares what Mbappe has done in his entire career then, since he's done it in Europe's 5th league?

I also think Mbappe is vastly overhyped. Great player obviously but ability-wise he's not as special as he's made out to be. The most impressive thing about him is a) his maturity at a very young age and b) his pace. Finishing and dribbling are very, very good but there are too many young players who are better than him in this regard to label him the standout talent of his generation, IMO.
 

Zehner

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I never said it’s easier to score in Italy, I am only talking about French League and BL. There are far too many flops from over there in recent years.

And you are getting it wrong. I am not suggesting Mbappe and Haaland would be flop elsewhere, they surely going to be huge success anywhere they go. But their overall numbers in those farmers league so far, I wouldn’t take it as seriously as others. But their numbers in CL and international stage so far are surely impressive.

I am just trying to put things into perspective, that’s all.

Mbappe in PSG (France) - 39 goals in 43 games (best season)
Ibra in PSG - 50 goals in 51 games
Ibra in England - 28 goals in 46 games

Haaland in Dortmund (BL) - 41 goals in 42 games (half season from previous + half season in current)
Werner in Germany - 34 goals in 45 games
Werner in England - 10 goals in 32 games
If it's that easy to score in thos leagues, why aren't their numbers better than their CL numbers?

Also, Werner is in his first season and Ibra was what, 34 when he moved to England? Very suspect comparisons. Why don't you choose Aubameyang, Son, de Bruyne or Gündogan as examples?

I don't think any of those two is a worldbeater talent but you should actually be all over them given your admiration for Cristiano. In many aspects, Haaland and Mbappe are very, very similar to him.
 

RedRonaldo

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Calling a major European competition a ‘farmer’s League’ is the kind of juvenile discourse that belongs with the 12 year old trolls on Twitter, not on a board that is actually supposed to have people on it that are knowledgeable about football. The German and French leagues are top five leagues in the world, they deserve attendant respect. La Liga and the PL are richer leagues, but the others are still difficult to excel in. Also, most of the stars in the PL are foreigners: if they had to rely on English talent only, it wouldn’t be nearly as good
Point is, those league is in poorer standard as compared to the top 2 as of today. As already highlighted, many of high profile top players over there, couldn’t produce anywhere near as good elsewhere.
 

RedRonaldo

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If it's that easy to score in thos leagues, why aren't their numbers better than their CL numbers?

Also, Werner is in his first season and Ibra was what, 34 when he moved to England? Very suspect comparisons. Why don't you choose Aubameyang, Son, de Bruyne or Gündogan as examples?

I don't think any of those two is a worldbeater talent but you should actually be all over them given your admiration for Cristiano. In many aspects, Haaland and Mbappe are very, very similar to him.
I simply don’t think scoring goals in Germany or France is as tough as scoring goals in England or Spain. It doesn’t apply to all, but it does apply to many.

Also, the stats I have listed for Ibra and Werner, are their stats in one season apart from the 2 different leagues. Age shouldn’t be a factor as it’s almost at same period of time in their career for comparison sake, and it’s as relevant as one could have got.

Also, just to put things into perspective, Rashford has 6 goals in 6 CL games this season, he has 8 goals in 24 PL games. Does that answer your question?
 
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Zehner

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I simply don’t think scoring goals in Germany or France is as tough as scoring goals in England or Spain. It doesn’t apply to all, but it does apply to many.

Also, the stats I have listed for Ibra and Werner, are their stats in one season apart from the 2 different leagues. Age shouldn’t be a factor as it’s almost at same period of time in their career for comparison sake, and it’s as relevant as one could have got.
You're free to believe what you want but your arguments are pretty weak. Half of the EPLs top 10 players consists of Bundesliga products. You on the other hand pick the exception in his first year in the EPL and compare it with his last season in the Bundesliga, after he played in a continuous system for multiple years. You can't possibly think that this is a fair assessment.

Might be the case that it's easier to score in the Bundesliga but in that case provide some relevant stats like average goals per game, preferrably also with average goals conceded per game in UCL and EL by league. That wpuld be interesting and could prove ypur point.
 

Oly Francis

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You're free to believe what you want but your arguments are pretty weak. Half of the EPLs top 10 players consists of Bundesliga products. You on the other hand pick the exception in his first year in the EPL and compare it with his last season in the Bundesliga, after he played in a continuous system for multiple years. You can't possibly think that this is a fair assessment.

Might be the case that it's easier to score in the Bundesliga but in that case provide some relevant stats like average goals per game, preferrably also with average goals conceded per game in UCL and EL by league. That wpuld be interesting and could prove ypur point.
Doesn't seem Bayern had a harder time scoring against PL/Liga teams last season compared to french teams (small sample but still).
10 goals in 2 games against Tottenham
7 in 2 games against Chelsea
8 in 1 game against Barcelona
3 in 1 game against Lyon
1 against PSG.
 

roonster09

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Doesn't seem Bayern had a harder time scoring against PL/Liga teams last season compared to french teams (small sample but still).
10 goals in 2 games against Tottenham
7 in 2 games against Chelsea
8 in 1 game against Barcelona
3 in 1 game against Lyon
1 against PSG.
ManUtd goals this season

7 in 2 games against Leipzig
5 in 1 game against Real Sociedad
3 in 1 game vs Luton
1 in 1 game vs Watford

Looks like it's harder to score against second division english side than Bundesliga and La Liga team. (Small sample but still).

Btw I believe it's harder to score in French league as teams are very defensive but that's not the case in Bundesliga. It's a defenders nightmare and attackers dream league. French league and Serie A you see many defensive teams playing deep line.

Anyways on the topic, Mbappe is more complete player, he can play across any attacking position and also scores goals out of nothing taking on many players. Haaland is more ruthless finisher, what Haaland has over many attackers is his movement and finishing but Mbappe has equally good movement. Rest of the game, Mbappe is better.
 

giorno

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Mbappe had one great game in the knock-out stages and that was against Argentina. He was a non-factor against Belgium in fact. Not to mention that France were poor in all of their group stage games as well.
He was the best player on the pitch against belgium, are you kidding :lol:

He also scored and was great in the final. In fact the only game in which he didn't either score or have big impact was against uruguay


Was he feck :lol: Hazard was a level above him, and Modric got the Golden Boot.
Hazard a level above him? :lol: yeah, modric won the golden boot. Mostly for being the beating heart of croatia than for actually being the best player of the tournament, but fair enough. I said arguably :D


Ridiculous argument. Who cares what Mbappe has done in his entire career then, since he's done it in Europe's 5th league?
Yes, that's the point
 
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RobinLFC

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He was the best player on the pitch against belgium, are you kidding :lol:

He also scored and was great in the final. In fact the only game in which he didn't either score or have big impact was against uruguay



Hazard a level above him? :lol: yeah, modric won the golden boot. Mostly for being the beating of croatia than for actually being the best player of the tournament, but fair enough. I said arguably :D



Yes, that's the point
Seems like you just don't rate Henry the right way (or at least how I think he should be rated) and rate Mbappe quite a bit higher than I do, fair enough.

Gonna stand by the point that Hazard was the best player at the WC though. Would've won it too if we'd beaten France.
 

giorno

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Seems like you just don't rate Henry the right way (or at least how I think he should be rated) and rate Mbappe quite a bit higher than I do, fair enough.
I think i rate him the right way of course :D
He was an all time great, his peak was just a shade below Ronaldinho's or Zidane's and he was the best striker of his era during his prime, the best player in the world before the rise of Dinho(post 2002 WC until euro 2004) and one of the best players of all time. Certainly among the 10 best players of the last 25 years or so.

Mbappé is - roughly - at that level *now*. It's a matter of either having a dominant CL/Euro campaign or doing what he's done in ligue1 over the last 4 years in a less dominant team for that kind of recognition to become set in stone, playing at this level for a number of years

Gonna stand by the point that Hazard was the best player at the WC though. Would've won it too if we'd beaten France.
If you'd won the WC, maybe. Hazard, Modric and Mbappé were the 3 best players of that tournament. Hazard's advantage over Mbappé is that De Bruyne only had one truly impressive game against Brazil, whereas Kante, Varane, Pogba and Griezmann were all great for France, throughout
 

mancan92

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I am only questioning their total numbers, not not their talents. If they stay in France and Germany managed to score 700+ goals in their career, it would look less impressive than someone who did it in better league, but still its impressive numbers. For example, Mbappe best season in PSG he scored 39 goals, impressive. But then Ibra did it in same team same league a few years back with 50 goals, but he then only managed 28 goals in England the season after. Sure Ibra is good, but the total numbers does inflated a lot from dominate side in those league.
Ibra also played in a team not as good as the PSG team he played in which means less chances for him. Whilst also the fact he was older and no longer in his prime.
 

dinostar77

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Mbappe is CL proven and the closest i have seen to a young brasilian ronaldo. Haaland needs to get another season or two of CL experience so he can be properly judged. Especially into the knockout stages. Also the transfer market values of the players is massively different. PSG demanding £175-£200mil for Mbappe this summer if they have to sell him. Haaland is somewhere near £60mil ?

On a sidenote, spainish papers have said Madrid have €350mil credit facility available to them that they havent chose to use as yet. Rumour is this is being held back in part for Mbappe transfer.
 

RobinLFC

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Mbappe is CL proven and the closest i have seen to a young brasilian ronaldo. Haaland needs to get another season or two of CL experience so he can be properly judged. Especially into the knockout stages. Also the transfer market values of the players is massively different. PSG demanding £175-£200mil for Mbappe this summer if they have to sell him. Haaland is somewhere near £60mil ?

On a sidenote, spainish papers have said Madrid have €350mil credit facility available to them that they havent chose to use as yet. Rumour is this is being held back in part for Mbappe transfer.
I think Haaland has an unofficial releaese clause of €75m that kicks in as from summer 2022, so think he'll stay at Dortmund for one more year unless a ridiculous offer comes in this summer.

I have a hard time seeing Mbappe leave PSG, they won't sell him and not sure he'll run his contract down to go elsewhere (think summer 2022 as well). At PSG it's basically "stay for the length of your contract" so let's say he signs for 4 more years he'll have been in France until at least 26 years old.
 

dinostar77

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I think Haaland has an unofficial releaese clause of €75m that kicks in as from summer 2022, so think he'll stay at Dortmund for one more year unless a ridiculous offer comes in this summer.

I have a hard time seeing Mbappe leave PSG, they won't sell him and not sure he'll run his contract down to go elsewhere (think summer 2022 as well). At PSG it's basically "stay for the length of your contract" so let's say he signs for 4 more years he'll have been in France until at least 26 years old.
PSG dont want him to go but i think they will have to be sensible and let him go this summer if he refuses to sign a new contract. They dont the money, but need the money because of ffp rules. Allowing him to run his contract down to a free would be too much loss of face for Qatar owners.

I think they will sign Messi if Mbappe decides to go. Not a like for like at all, but i dont know who else would placate the PSG fans.

Cant rule them out of haaland either. Easy sell to Haaland. Do you want to play with Messi and Neymar for a few years? Sold.
 

stefan92

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Mbappe is CL proven and the closest i have seen to a young brasilian ronaldo. Haaland needs to get another season or two of CL experience so he can be properly judged. Especially into the knockout stages. Also the transfer market values of the players is massively different. PSG demanding £175-£200mil for Mbappe this summer if they have to sell him. Haaland is somewhere near £60mil ?
I slightly disagree - Haaland/Dortmund should get a deeper run into the CL last year to prove him more, but I think he has done it already. 18 goals in 13 games (4 in 3 KO round games) for two different clubs and just two CL games where he did not score can be considered "proven" I believe. When you compare the current and last season, both of them have basically the same scorers (Mbappe more assists, Haaland more goals), so I would like to say that Haaland needed less time to reach the same level in the CL, while Mbappe took longer to reach this. At this point in time, both of them are absolutely proven players and not talents anymore who need time to reach their "real level" or whatever.

Regarding the clause, that is believed to be somewhere in that area, but not for this summer, but for next summer. So this summer Dortmund could safely call a price around 100mil for him, they would be happy to have him there for another season.
 

dinostar77

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I know the press are saying Mbappe v Haaland will be the next Ronaldo v Messi. But i do wonder if Ansu Fati and Amad Diallo will end up in this conversation if both players (not strikers i know) come anywhere near the potential scouts think both players have. Apparently the best two under 19 players in the world with the highest potential.
 

RobinLFC

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I slightly disagree - Haaland/Dortmund should get a deeper run into the CL last year to prove him more, but I think he has done it already. 18 goals in 13 games (4 in 3 KO round games) for two different clubs and just two CL games where he did not score can be considered "proven" I believe. When you compare the current and last season, both of them have basically the same scorers (Mbappe more assists, Haaland more goals), so I would like to say that Haaland needed less time to reach the same level in the CL, while Mbappe took longer to reach this. At this point in time, both of them are absolutely proven players and not talents anymore who need time to reach their "real level" or whatever.

Regarding the clause, that is believed to be somewhere in that area, but not for this summer, but for next summer. So this summer Dortmund could safely call a price around 100mil for him, they would be happy to have him there for another season.
Proven as in - be decisive and score goals against great teams to carry his team. 8 of Haaland's 18 goals have come against the almighty Belgian teams Genk and Bruges. Of course you can only score against the opponents you're playing against (and all signs point to the fact that he does it against great teams too like his 2 goals against PSG last season), but he needs to go deeper in the KO stages and still deliver to be considered proven (but again, all the signs are there that he'd easily deliver if given the opportunity). I think it's likely that it happens at his next club rather than Dortmund though, where the QFs this season seem likely as their final destination depending on who they'd get there if they get there.

Mbappe had already done it at Monaco and has reached the final with PSG last year too.
 

HerrLeinad

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I simply don’t think scoring goals in Germany or France is as tough as scoring goals in England or Spain. It doesn’t apply to all, but it does apply to many.
The difference is marginal at best, we are talking about maybe a handful goals more or less over a whole season which could be explained by a difference in level and actual stats don't even show that much of a difference.
You on the other hand argue like it's a completetly different level of difficulty to score in the EPL, i.e. as if a typical EPL strikers would score 1,5x or 2x the amount of goals in those leagues and that's just ridiculous.

You also pick examples of individual players and draw huge conclusions from anectodal data. Using Werner as example is pretty much like using Liverpool Torres and comparing him to Chelsea Torres and then coming to the conclusion that the league quality improved by 4 times because Torres wasn't able to score as many goals for Chelsea.
Players struggling in a new club/league isn't just down to a difference in quality of the league. Götze didn't "flop" at Bayern because teams in the Bundesliga suddenly had a different quality. The same is true for EPL "Stars" like Coutinho or Hazard or do you think they struggled after their transfers because La Liga or the Bundesliga were too tough for them?
There are many factors involved and Aubameyang is a prime example. He performed in Ligue 1, Bundesliga and the EPL pretty much at the same exact level and now he suddenly had a huge drop in performance. You even have other examples like Sanchez, what happened there, did the EPL quality suddenly increase after he went to United?
What about players who couldn't cut it elsewhere but suddenly became stars in the EPL?
What do Bruno's and Diaz' performances at United show in regards to the EPL? That the portguese league is as good as or even better than the EPL?

Discussions like this remind me of EPL fans who once argued a team could never dominate (win) as much in the EPL as clubs in La Liga, the Bundesliga or Ligue 1, that it would be impossible to have a similar points output due to more competition.
Then Guardiola and Klopp happened and now everyone pretends they never made that argument or they still chose to ignore reality. Elite clubs will produce elite results in any league and the same is true for players.
 

gajender

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I know the press are saying Mbappe v Haaland will be the next Ronaldo v Messi. But i do wonder if Ansu Fati and Amad Diallo will end up in this conversation if both players (not strikers i know) come anywhere near the potential scouts think both players have. Apparently the best two under 19 players in the world with the highest potential.
You can add Sancho and Felix as well it's not clear cut as some are making out to be that future race for ballon d'or would be toss up between Haaland and Mbappe only, it's not given they would two best players in the world in future.
 

Zehner

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Mbappe is CL proven and the closest i have seen to a young brasilian ronaldo. Haaland needs to get another season or two of CL experience so he can be properly judged. Especially into the knockout stages. Also the transfer market values of the players is massively different. PSG demanding £175-£200mil for Mbappe this summer if they have to sell him. Haaland is somewhere near £60mil ?

On a sidenote, spainish papers have said Madrid have €350mil credit facility available to them that they havent chose to use as yet. Rumour is this is being held back in part for Mbappe transfer.
Ibrahimovic would say what Mbappe can do with a football R9 could do with an orange.
 

troylocker

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real aka Brazilian aka fat aka R9 Ronaldo
At 21 years of age his record was
Played 200 games - scored 179 goals - this included his time in brazil, holland and his season at barca and his first season at inter - he also had an additional 44 games and 29 goals for Brazil

Mbappe (at 22 years old) has
played 213 Games - scored 138 goals - he also has 39 caps and 16 goals

Haaland
played 153 games - scored 110 goals (albeit he is still only 20 though has played at a lower level) but still he needs to score 69 goals in his next 47 games to match R9 .... 7 caps and 6 goals as well

Basically they are fantastic - but even as impressive as their early figures are you dont have to go back too much further to find somebody who outperformed them



Ronaldo = 0.895 goals per game at 21
Mbappe = 0.648 Goals per game at 22
Haaland = 0.719 goals per game at 20
Owen = 0.542 goals per game at 22 (205 games and 111 goals... oh and 44 caps and 19 goals)

Basically Ronaldo is further ahead of Mbappe and Haaland than they are of Owen (and owen won a ballon dor at that age - so yes both are phenomenal talents but they are not THE PHENOM)
Nice work!

I do think goals/game is a flawed stat for measuring goalscoring ratio though.
I think a goalratio based on goals per minute on the pitch, you will give you a more real picture of who is the best goalscorer and better statistics (Haaland for instance started just 2 of his 16 apps for Bryne as a 15/16 year old and only half of his 50 apps for Molde):

- Haaland has a goalratio of 89 minutes/goal including all his senior performances for Norway and Bryne, Molde, Salzburg and Dortmund. After he went to Salzburg he has the insane goalratio of a goal every 72 minutes for Norway, Salzburg and Dortmund (76 goals in 5488 minutes) and even more insame if you include his Norway U20 performances in that same period (11 goals in 404 minutes - 37 minutes/goal). CL 18 goals in 990 minutes - 55 minutes/goal

- Ronaldo (R9) had a goalratio of 106 minutes/goal including all his senior performances for Brazil, Cruzeiro, PSV, Barca and the first season for Inter up till after the WC 98. If you take away his early Cruzeiro career (2 goals in 920 minutes) and we count from he went to Europe he had a goalratio of 101 minutes/goal. Ronaldo played his first CL match when he was 22. Ronaldo arguably had the toughest working conditions and his teams didn't score as much as Mbappe and Haalands teams has.

- Mbappe has a goalratio of 108 minutes/goal for France, Monaco and PSG. He has played for a stacked PSG in Ligue 1 which is good for statspadding, but also contributes with a lot more assists than the other two.

Owen was miles behind with around 150 minutes/goal also including his prime years for Liverpool. He never scored 20+ PL-goals in a season in his career.

R9 is my favourite player of all time, and watching him play for Barca and pre-injury for Inter is the sickest stuff I have seen on a football pitch. It wasn't just the goalscoring, it was the nutmegs, the tricks, the arrogance and the alienlike explosiveness, strenght, pace and balance. He was something else, a one man army.

...but when it comes to goalscoring, ang goalscoring alone: Haaland is the best young goalscorer in moderns football to this date. And he has that freakish explosiveness/strenght/pace combo as well. So fascinating to watch.
 

louvega

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I know the press are saying Mbappe v Haaland will be the next Ronaldo v Messi. But i do wonder if Ansu Fati and Amad Diallo will end up in this conversation if both players (not strikers i know) come anywhere near the potential scouts think both players have. Apparently the best two under 19 players in the world with the highest potential.
fati is not on the same level, at least yet, but he's 3-4 years younger than mbappe and haaland