Haaland vs Mbappe - Heirs Apparent

Who do you think will win the Ballon d'Or first?

  • Erling Braut Haaland

  • Kylian Mbappé Lottin


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Sayros

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You're free to believe what you want but your arguments are pretty weak. Half of the EPLs top 10 players consists of Bundesliga products. You on the other hand pick the exception in his first year in the EPL and compare it with his last season in the Bundesliga, after he played in a continuous system for multiple years. You can't possibly think that this is a fair assessment.

Might be the case that it's easier to score in the Bundesliga but in that case provide some relevant stats like average goals per game, preferrably also with average goals conceded per game in UCL and EL by league. That wpuld be interesting and could prove ypur point.
I think he's already feeling threatened for his boy's legacy with these two monsters making a mockery of CR7 and Messi's stats at the same age, so we're gonna hear the arguments like this from the CR7 and Messi mob regarding Haaland/Mbappe.
 

RobinLFC

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I think he's already feeling threatened for his boy's legacy with these two monsters making a mockery of CR7 and Messi's stats at the same age, so we're gonna hear the arguments like this from the CR7 and Messi mob regarding Haaland/Mbappe.
Didn't Messi have 2 Ballon d'Ors and 2 CLs with a few La Ligas to boot aged 22 or something like that? Read a stat yesterday too that they'd need to score 44 goals a season for 15 years straight in order to overtake Messi's and Ronaldo's stats.

Comparisons this early in a career are pointless, players break through at different ages so no point doing so. Lukaku could've had 60 goals aged 18 compared to 10 or 20 for Messi and Ronaldo (didn't check), didn't mean a thing.
 

Sayros

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Didn't Messi have 2 Ballon d'Ors and 2 CLs with a few La Ligas to boot aged 22 or something like that? Read a stat yesterday too that they'd need to score 44 goals a season for 15 years straight in order to overtake Messi's and Ronaldo's stats.

Comparisons this early in a career are pointless, players break through at different ages so no point doing so. Lukaku could've had 60 goals aged 18 compared to 10 or 20 for Messi and Ronaldo (didn't check), didn't mean a thing.
Messi won his first Ballon d'Or at age 22 after an insane treble. Then 3 more in a row after that. It's unlikely either of them re-create something like that.

I'm just being tongue-in-cheek because the wildest arguments I'm hearing are usually from the big Messi/CR7 fans as to why what Mbappe and Haaland are doing isn't incredible, when it clearly is. It would be closer to 41 goals or so per season, for the next 15 years, but that's just if they're looking to outscore them. Haaland is well on his way to outscoring CR7/Messi in the CL, so is Mbappe. In other ways, the latter has already done something neither CR7 or Messi have, and I don't just mean winning the WC, but actually scoring most of his goals in the knock-out stages of the competition, something neither have done once (which to me is one of the craziest statistic of their careers given they both got at least to the semi-final).

I don't think/know that Haaland and Mbappe will end up with more goals/assists than CR7 or Messi, because beyond these legends' abilities and team success, they've had the extreme fortune of not being on the sidelines for too much in their careers, it's a rare gift that doesn't happen often. But if anybody has a chance, it's them. They are the two names now, Messi and CR7 is the past more than the present, Haaland/Mbappe will be the center of the footballing universe from here on out, and anywhere they go, they will be put in positions to be successful because only the best clubs can/should get them, and they're pretty much in control of their careers already.
 

troylocker

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He was the best player on the pitch against belgium, are you kidding :lol:

He also scored and was great in the final. In fact the only game in which he didn't either score or have big impact was against uruguay

Hazard a level above him? :lol: yeah, modric won the golden boot. Mostly for being the beating heart of croatia than for actually being the best player of the tournament, but fair enough. I said arguably :D



Yes, that's the point
You are clearly a huge fan of Mbappe, but he wasn't even the best player for France. Mbappe had a very impressive WC and was absolutely brilliant against Argentina, but Griezman was the best player for France in that WC.
He did by the way not score one single goal in the knockout stages of PSGs run to the CL final last season, so it's kinda hard to give him much credit for that.

Playing for PSG in Ligue 1 is just lazy for a world class talent (good for your stats, bad for your development and football legacy). They play against the equivalent to Brentford, Cardiff and Bristol City with the occasional West Ham or Everton week in and week out with a 780M squad. He is worth more alone than the 4 bottom teams in the league combined for crying out loud. What he does in the domestic comps with PSG means nothing. If he renews that contract he can rule himself out of any goat discussions in the future, and will be remembered as a gready wonderkid who didn't bother to become an all time great.

He's a fantastic player though, and I look forward to follow his career. If he wants to be a contender for best in the world he needs to go to Spain or England.
 
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Zehner

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I think he's already feeling threatened for his boy's legacy with these two monsters making a mockery of CR7 and Messi's stats at the same age, so we're gonna hear the arguments like this from the CR7 and Messi mob regarding Haaland/Mbappe.
I think going by goals is a stupid thing to begin with. However, if you do it, it's dumb to suggest that Haaland's and Mbappe's numbers were inflated by the league they play in when a) the stats in the UCL are similar and b) Messi's and Ronaldo's stats were also hugely inflated by the teams they played in. Double standards at it's finest.

That being said, I don't think Haaland and Mbappe are as talented as Messi. Actually, from all the young prospects currently around, Sancho is the one who has the highest ceiling, IMO. He could be in the Neymar and Cristiano tier while Haaland and Mbappe for me are the tier below that. Incredible productive from a very young age but their footballing ability isn't out of the world if you ask me. They might challenge Messi's and Cristiano's numbers if they are blessed with similar injury resistance but I highly doubt they'll achieve the footballing standards especially Messi has set throughout his career. That's not a dig by the way, I highly enjoy watching both players. They just don't give me the same unplayable vibes.
 

Berbaclass

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I don't get why people always rush to compare players to Messi/Ronaldo. Those two are absolute freaks. I'd be happy to eat my words but no one, certainly not Mbappe or Haaland will achieve the numbers they have, never mind the absolute relentless consistency of them. There's an argument to say no one will get close to what they've done except a few (Pele, Maradona etc.)
 

Zehner

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I don't get why people always rush to compare players to Messi/Ronaldo. Those two are absolute freaks. I'd be happy to eat my words but no one, certainly not Mbappe or Haaland will achieve the numbers they have, never mind the absolute relentless consistency of them. There's an argument to say no one will get close to what they've done except a few (Pele, Maradona etc.)
One can read that quite often but I don't really think it's the case. There are quite a few who produced comparable numbers across all eras. Puskas, di Stefano, Zico, Romario, Müller, Eusebio, (young) R9, van Basten, Pele, etc. And that's not even counting guys like Bican, Meazza, Peyroteo, who played really ong ago.

I believe goal stats are pretty pointless without context. One should judge the whole package. But I also have the feeling it'll be some time until we witness a player of similar magnitude. Not because they scored x goals in x games but simply because of the abilities they possess make them standout. I don't see anybody with Messi's talent nor do I see anybody who's got Cristiano's work ethics and professionalism paired with the footballing potential he always displayed.
 

Berbaclass

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One can read that quite often but I don't really think it's the case. There are quite a few who produced comparable numbers across all eras. Puskas, di Stefano, Zico, Romario, Müller, Eusebio, (young) R9, van Basten, Pele, etc. And that's not even counting guys like Bican, Meazza, Peyroteo, who played really ong ago.

I believe goal stats are pretty pointless without context. One should judge the whole package. But I also have the feeling it'll be some time until we witness a player of similar magnitude. Not because they scored x goals in x games but simply because of the abilities they possess make them standout. I don't see anybody with Messi's talent nor do I see anybody who's got Cristiano's work ethics and professionalism paired with the footballing potential he always displayed.
Messi and Ronaldo have consistently produced those numbers for 10-15 years. R9 didn't, He's not in the conversation for me. As far as the other players go that's fair enough. Hardly any of them have come from the past 30-40 years if not more though.

My point is that in 'modern football' they are 'freaks' and pretty much stand alone in terms of numbers.
 

Sayros

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I think going by goals is a stupid thing to begin with. However, if you do it, it's dumb to suggest that Haaland's and Mbappe's numbers were inflated by the league they play in when a) the stats in the UCL are similar and b) Messi's and Ronaldo's stats were also hugely inflated by the teams they played in. Double standards at it's finest.

That being said, I don't think Haaland and Mbappe are as talented as Messi. Actually, from all the young prospects currently around, Sancho is the one who has the highest ceiling, IMO. He could be in the Neymar and Cristiano tier while Haaland and Mbappe for me are the tier below that. Incredible productive from a very young age but their footballing ability isn't out of the world if you ask me. They might challenge Messi's and Cristiano's numbers if they are blessed with similar injury resistance but I highly doubt they'll achieve the footballing standards especially Messi has set throughout his career. That's not a dig by the way, I highly enjoy watching both players. They just don't give me the same unplayable vibes.
Agreed about no one being on Messi's talent level, I don't see anybody in the world and youth game right now that can come close. But talent is just one thing, and mentality is another, and the two youngsters have world-class mentality already at a young age, with clear goals ahead of them and most importantly a reference in Messi and CR7 to look up to, and each other to motivate them for the rest of their career like the legendary duo. I've said for some time now that because of players like Messi and CR7 coming in the age of YouTube, it won't take long for the next generation to come and if not match at least come close to the sort of performances they put on because it's now in the collective consciousness that it can be done, consistently, for a decade plus. If it's not Mbappe/Haaland, it'll be someone else soon.

I think the only thing that's going to stop either of them from getting to 'eat at Messi's/CR7's table', to use Griezmann's phrase, is health and transfer decisions. One thing I certainly don't want to see is the two of them on the same team.
 

do.ob

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Haaland is more than twice as productive as either Messi or Ronaldo in terms of minutes per goal in the CL. If he can keep his level anywhere close to that, which of course is the biggest of ifs and why these comparisons are stupid at this point, no one is going to ask about talent. Mbappe isn't that far off those two either and he got his national team success going for him.
 
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I don't get why people always rush to compare players to Messi/Ronaldo. Those two are absolute freaks. I'd be happy to eat my words but no one, certainly not Mbappe or Haaland will achieve the numbers they have, never mind the absolute relentless consistency of them. There's an argument to say no one will get close to what they've done except a few (Pele, Maradona etc.)
I don’t see Mbappe being able to get anywhere near the numbers of Ronaldo/Messi.

as you say, that’s a completely unrealistic barometer.

Haaland, I think has a chance - he absolutely lives for goals. But he’s got to stay injury free for the next decade and beyond - that in itself it unlikely.

So much luck, as well as talent is needed.

I’d compare Haaland to RVN (not necessarily in style, but it’s all about the goals).

Mbappe is clearly the more exciting player, he’s one that will get you off of your feet.

let’s see what happens when they both move to big clubs.
 

Berbaclass

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I don’t see Mbappe being able to get anywhere near the numbers of Ronaldo/Messi.

as you say, that’s a completely unrealistic barometer.

Haaland, I think has a chance - he absolutely lives for goals. But he’s got to stay injury free for the next decade and beyond - that in itself it unlikely.

So much luck, as well as talent is needed.

I’d compare Haaland to RVN (not necessarily in style, but it’s all about the goals).

Mbappe is clearly the more exciting player, he’s one that will get you off of your feet.

let’s see what happens when they both move to big clubs.
I think Mbappe will be the better of the two. I'm not completely convinced by Haaland TBH. I think at the moment he's a little bit one dimensional.
 

Mr.Kaya

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fati is not on the same level, at least yet, but he's 3-4 years younger than mbappe and haaland
Fati is only 2 years younger than Haaland actually, but yea hes definetly not close to their level as of yet.
 

abundance

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Fati is only 2 years younger than Haaland actually, but yea hes definetly not close to their level as of yet.
Yup Fati doesn't impress me that much so far too but even two years are a big gulf at that age.
Haaland at Fati's age was still playing in Norway and both Juve and Roma passed on signing him for 4mils or so.
 

Macern

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Haaland has the numbers in his favour. He’s also roughly two years younger. Obviously a more lethal goal scorer, whereas Mbappe is a more complete player. Haaland is rather unique though, in the sense that I don’t know who to compare him to other than Gronkowski in the NFL. As a Norwegian I’m going for Haaland :wenger:
 

gibers

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I am only questioning their total numbers, not not their talents. If they stay in France and Germany managed to score 700+ goals in their career, it would look less impressive than someone who did it in better league, but still its impressive numbers. For example, Mbappe best season in PSG he scored 39 goals, impressive. But then Ibra did it in same team same league a few years back with 50 goals, but he then only managed 28 goals in England the season after. Sure Ibra is good, but the total numbers does inflated a lot from dominate side in those league.
Not really much to do with the league but with the team. Put Lewandowski in this City side and he would get 50+ goals. Put an elite CF in City's team and they would have Messi and Ronaldo's numbers. Salah broke the EPL record with Liverpool in his first season. If Pep had an elite striker in his team they would put up insane numbers.
 

EngimaMK

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I hate these kind of comparisons. Feels very much like something 12 year olds would argue about.
 

BridgeBanter

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Mbappé is a WC winner - having the kind of international tournament Henry never even came close to in the process - multiple league winner, and CL runner-up. And he's 22. By individual season/competition he already has a better international tournament than Henry and at least as good of a CL campaign under his belt(16/17 with Monaco). If he wins CL and Euros this year, while playing the way he's done the other night, or in Russia, he could retire at the end of the season and he'd already go down in history as a better/greater player than Henry


Eh, Cruyff is in the conversation and he lasted less than a decade. Mbappé has been a top 10, top 5 player in the world for 4 years now...

Dinho isn't in the conversation because his peak wasn't as high as the guys who *are* in the conversation, not just because he lacks longevity


Doesn't need to, if he's just as impactful and effective overall. Cristiano doesn't surpass Messi in a lot of areas and at this point you can make a genuine argument he's the better of the two
Im sorry that’s just ridiculous. I think Mbappe himself would disagree he has already surpassed Henry, even if he won CL this year. It’s actually incredibly disrespectful to even suggest that.
 

Magz

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Yup Fati doesn't impress me that much so far too but even two years are a big gulf at that age.
Haaland at Fati's age was still playing in Norway and both Juve and Roma passed on signing him for 4mils or so.
Actually, Haaland passed on Juventus. Multiple times if I'm not mistaken.
 

Acheron

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Not that it matters 'cause we're getting both anyways :drool: :D
Yup, that would be my dream get them both eventually and build around them. Anyway I think we do really need to get one soon so we don't have to rely so much on Benzema but also benefitting on playing alongside him and growing into the role of being the focus of our attack. :drool:
 

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Actually, Haaland passed on Juventus. Multiple times if I'm not mistaken.
He turned them down for RB Salzburg when he left Molde, and they were at least flagging their interest in him when he went to Dortmund (don't remember if they had a bid accepted or not.)
 

RedRonaldo

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Ibra also played in a team not as good as the PSG team he played in which means less chances for him. Whilst also the fact he was older and no longer in his prime.
Ibra scored 50 goals for PSG at age 34. He scored 28 goals for us at age 35. But yeh, PSG is far more dominate side playing in weaker league. But that’s my whole point about Mbappe record in PSG. If he is playing for us he would struggle to score as many, but he would still likely end up as our top scorer for sure.
 

RedRonaldo

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Nice work!

I do think goals/game is a flawed stat for measuring goalscoring ratio though.
I think a goalratio based on goals per minute on the pitch, you will give you a more real picture of who is the best goalscorer and better statistics (Haaland for instance started just 2 of his 16 apps for Bryne as a 15/16 year old and only half of his 50 apps for Molde):

- Haaland has a goalratio of 89 minutes/goal including all his senior performances for Norway and Bryne, Molde, Salzburg and Dortmund. After he went to Salzburg he has the insane goalratio of a goal every 72 minutes for Norway, Salzburg and Dortmund (76 goals in 5488 minutes) and even more insame if you include his Norway U20 performances in that same period (11 goals in 404 minutes - 37 minutes/goal). CL 18 goals in 990 minutes - 55 minutes/goal

- Ronaldo (R9) had a goalratio of 106 minutes/goal including all his senior performances for Brazil, Cruzeiro, PSV, Barca and the first season for Inter up till after the WC 98. If you take away his early Cruzeiro career (2 goals in 920 minutes) and we count from he went to Europe he had a goalratio of 101 minutes/goal. Ronaldo played his first CL match when he was 22. Ronaldo arguably had the toughest working conditions and his teams didn't score as much as Mbappe and Haalands teams has.

- Mbappe has a goalratio of 108 minutes/goal for France, Monaco and PSG. He has played for a stacked PSG in Ligue 1 which is good for statspadding, but also contributes with a lot more assists than the other two.

Owen was miles behind with around 150 minutes/goal also including his prime years for Liverpool. He never scored 20+ PL-goals in a season in his career.

R9 is my favourite player of all time, and watching him play for Barca and pre-injury for Inter is the sickest stuff I have seen on a football pitch. It wasn't just the goalscoring, it was the nutmegs, the tricks, the arrogance and the alienlike explosiveness, strenght, pace and balance. He was something else, a one man army.

...but when it comes to goalscoring, ang goalscoring alone: Haaland is the best young goalscorer in moderns football to this date. And he has that freakish explosiveness/strenght/pace combo as well. So fascinating to watch.
Yeh would agree with that. Haaland is probably the best young goalscorer I’ve ever watched. L.Ronaldo for sure was the best and most talented young player. Mbappe is behind L.Ronaldo in both, behind Haaland in goalscoring but better talent than him at the same time.

But bear in mind L.Ronaldo has also been playing week in week out in best 2 leagues in the world even at young age, while Mbappe is playing in 5th best league, Haaland is playing in the 4th.
 
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Tarrou

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I see a lot of comparisons here. Ruud vs Henry, Shearer vs Henry, Messi vs Ronaldo etc.

Haaland and Mbappe has a lot more end product than all these guys at the same age and let's hope they are both still far from peaking. Haaland has scored a goal every 90 minutes and contributed to a goal every 72 minutes so far in his senior football career, while Mbappe has scored a goal every 109 minutes and contributed to a goal every 70 minutes of his career so far. These are absolutely insane numbers and there is no doubt in my mind these are extraordinary talents. My point is that these two phenomenons pretty much dwarf all these (and others) legends' early career numbers:

- Henry scored 28 goals in 139 games for Monaco before he left for Juve at 21. He scored 12 in his last 62 games for Monaco....
- Shearer had 9 senior goals to his name when he left Southampton for Blackburn at 22.
- Messi had 42 goals in 110 games for Barca when he turned 21.
- Ruud left Heerenveen at 22 with 14 goals in 36 senior games
- CR7 had 32 goals in 168 games after the season he had turned 21

I really look forward to see this battle unfold the next decade, because it might be better than anything we have seen before.
I'm not sure where you got these stats from but Shearer had a lot more than nine goals for Southampton. He was already scoring regularly at that age and he'd been capped by England
 

United Junkie

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This goes for Mbappe too. His must choose a top club in a more competitive league. Nobody outside of France cares what he does in Ligue 1 or any domestic competition in France. The fact that he plays for a "plastic oilmoney" club with 2,5 to 20 x the financial muscles of any of the competitors makes it very hard to give him credit for anything he does in domestic competitions. As long as he plays there his legacy will be NT and CL merits.

The part about Mbappes being more aesthetically pleasing to watch is also a bit laughable. He does have some tricks up his sleeves for sure, but he also has one of the most ackward looking runningstyles I've ever seen. It works for him though...
Even a lot of people inside France dont care for him and PSG.
 

amolbhatia50k

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The poll should be about who will be the better footballer. The Balon Dor can be a lottery in that whoever is part of a top team who can win the CL first will have the best shout.
 

troylocker

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I'm not sure where you got these stats from but Shearer had a lot more than nine goals for Southampton. He was already scoring regularly at that age and he'd been capped by England
You are of course right, he had 43 goals in 158 games when he left the Saints at 22, and had 13 goals in 41 games in the top division the last season he was there.
 

Pexbo

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Good article by Kean Early on this topic.

tl;dr Haaland is vastly inferior to Mbappe (and most other strikers) on almost every possible metric. Expect his ability to smash the ball into the net. He’s basically a unique freak. Nobody else to compare him with.
Given the choice of Mbappe for £125m for Haaland for £175m I’d go for Haaland.

That’s for this United team mind you, I wouldn’t necessarily make the same decision if I was in charge of another side.
 

Brightonian

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Given the choice of Mbappe for £125m for Haaland for £175m I’d go for Haaland.

That’s for this United team mind you, I wouldn’t necessarily make the same decision if I was in charge of another side.
I don't agree. Obviously I would love to get Haaland. But a player who ought to be average but isn't for some inexplicable reason is a dangerous thing. For whatever reason, he's never struggled. He's never been tested by a bad spell. He's a player who seems to do what he does through absolute self-confidence but he's never undergone the thing that tests the self-confidence of a striker - a serious dry spell.

So given the choice, even for the same price, I'd take Mbappe. Even though I'll grant you an out-and-out centre-forward is what we need most right at this moment. If you're choosing between potentially this generation's two star footballers, you choose the one who doesn't look inexplicable and too good to be true.
 

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How/why did we end up picking martial over mbappe from their academy for the big money. It’s mad how different things could have been. Monaco are a selling club and neither had broken through fully. Martial was almost certainly cheaper than Mbappe would have been but Mbappe has always looked like he lives for football and has a fairly drama free image. Anto has a bit of a moody streak to go with the obvious talent and was certainly more of a risk. Did we just take the cheaper riskier option at the end of the day? Is it our scouts not doing their homework on players mental makeup and motivations for lack of a better term? is it our owners taking the cheaper option? Or is it all just dumb luck?
 

Red Stone

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I think Mbappé will win it first, as he's at the bigger team, he's further along in his development and he has the benefit of being the star of a national team that are favourites in every tournament they enter.

That being said I think Haaland will have a better career. Mbappé doesn't have the same ferocious mentality and drive. Haaland's hunger for goals and willingness to get stuck in to get on the end of things is Ronaldo-esque, and his physicality adds to that.
 

tomaldinho1

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How/why did we end up picking martial over mbappe from their academy for the big money. It’s mad how different things could have been. Monaco are a selling club and neither had broken through fully. Martial was almost certainly cheaper than Mbappe would have been but Mbappe has always looked like he lives for football and has a fairly drama free image. Anto has a bit of a moody streak to go with the obvious talent and was certainly more of a risk. Did we just take the cheaper riskier option at the end of the day? Is it our scouts not doing their homework on players mental makeup and motivations for lack of a better term? is it our owners taking the cheaper option? Or is it all just dumb luck?
Martial at 19 was class when he came here, he'd just broken through and been great for Monaco in the CL. Mbappe was basically still a child at 16. It would have been crazy, I don't think he had a single senior goal, would have been like us signing Shoretyre over a year ago.
 

totaalvoetbal

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At this present moment in time, I would take Haaland simply because finding a great goalscorer now is very difficult.