It's cool, I believe I have my answer
Film Hannibal (Carthage)
- Thread starter Welsh Wonder
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Denzel Washington is completely wrong for Hannibal. Not because of his skin colour, because who the feck cares, but because he's way too old.
So you were fine when Anthony Hopkins played Hannibal?
Anthony Hopkins can play anyone he wants. Hannibal Lecter, Hannibal Barca, Hannibal Buress - I don't care.
Hopkins as Hannibal Mejbri is something I didn't expect but it worked pretty well I have to say.
Nothing a little CGI cant fix
To be serious though, if Joaquin Phoenix can pull of 27 year old Napoleon at the age of 49, as the early reviews seem to indicate, no reason to think Denzel cant do the same, the guy oozes charisma.
?Why do you think the Romans called it the 'Punic' wars?
Punicus from the Greek Phoinix (which is Phoenician)
Such a @Norman Brownbutter type of post.
George Peppard played Hannibal better than anyone.
Pretty sure Cyrus the Great did it way before Hannibal too but Hannibal tactics at Cannae and at Trebia and Trasmine are ridiculously brilliant. I'm definitely guilty of a western centric perspective but i really struggle to think of a single commander from around that era that used the environment so effectively.Why do you think the Romans called it the 'Punic' wars?
Another interesting thing is the famed double flanking movement into encirclement of Cannae didn't originate with Hannibal. The Carthaginian navy used it in the battle of Cape Ecnomus (still the largest naval battle in history in terms of men involved, if you accept the historical accounts) but failed to envelop the Roman fleet and was defeated piecemeals in separate engagements, so with the same strategy, Carthage failed dismally at sea (their expertise compared to Rome) while succeeded gloriously on land (Rome's strong point). The wars were filled with little ironies like that, as also plenty of parallels, chiefly the political meddling at the home front that stymied frontline generals, leading to defeat (Hamilcar in Sicily, Fabius (of Fabian's strategy renown) for Rome the first time, Hannibal in Italy).
Also, in the debate about greatest generals in history, Asian generals are conspicuously missing. Nearly half a century before Cannae, Bai Qi already successfully completed an army envelopment that lead to the annihilation of the enemy army at the battle of Changping, killing, capturing and executing 400,000 men, over a terrain stretching dozens of kilometers. Yet due to the Western centric world we live in, all we commonly hear about is Alexander, Hannibal and Caesar.
He made the Celts disciplined enough to hold a defensive line and to not get drunk before a major battle- i mean that alone commands respect
.?It's cool, I believe I have my answer
Never knew Hannibal was Phoenician (lebanese), and I've played both Rome Total War games and consider myself a bit of a history geek
I'm not sure you can still call Hannibal 'Phoenician' at that point in time though. Carthage was founded many centuries before the Punic Wars and had been its own regionally important centre for ages by that time. I don't think we have much information on the ongoing relationship between Phoenician cities (which had also been under Hellenistic rule for over a century by 200 BCE), so while Carthage is obviously a Phoenician colony, I wouldn't call Hannibal Lebanese, that seems a stretch.Why do you think the Romans called it the 'Punic' wars?
...from a historical nitpicking point of view.
Too much attention was given to Cannae due to the sheer number of Roman lives lost and the question in the immediate aftermath, but for my money Lake Trasimene was the most brilliant of them all, the level of organisation and discipline to pull off an ambush by a large army on hostile territory, in 217 BC no less, is just mind boggling to think about in the context of antiquity.Pretty sure Cyrus the Great did it way before Hannibal too but Hannibal tactics at Cannae and at Trebia and Trasmine are ridiculously brilliant. I'm definitely guilty of a western centric perspective but i really struggle to think of a single commander from around that era that used the environment so effectively.
He made the Celts disciplined enough to hold a defensive line and to not get drunk before a major battle- i mean that alone commands respect
Probably not until Alesia, but dear old Julius had the expertise of Roman engineering and organisation behind him.
A Qin general in the unification war also pulled off a great victory using the environment roughly around the same period
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Ben
He was basically Phonecian/berber.I'm not sure you can still call Hannibal 'Phoenician' at that point in time though. Carthage was founded many centuries before the Punic Wars and had been its own regionally important centre for ages by that time. I don't think we have much information on the ongoing relationship between Phoenician cities (which had also been under Hellenistic rule for over a century by 200 BCE), so while Carthage is obviously a Phoenician colony, I wouldn't call Hannibal Lebanese, that seems a stretch.
...from a historical nitpicking point of view.
Yeah, Carthage must have become quite the ethnocultural mix by the time of the 3rd century BCE.
As Ridley Scott would say, get a life.
Scipio Africanus maybe? I'm not an expert, just someone who listens to podcasts.Pretty sure Cyrus the Great did it way before Hannibal too but Hannibal tactics at Cannae and at Trebia and Trasmine are ridiculously brilliant. I'm definitely guilty of a western centric perspective but i really struggle to think of a single commander from around that era that used the environment so effectively.
He made the Celts disciplined enough to hold a defensive line and to not get drunk before a major battle- i mean that alone commands respect
I don't know a huge amount about Napoleon/Wellington but i get the feeling the perception is similar to how it is between Hannibal and Scipio: Scipio was a brilliant general (like Wellington) who beat the best (Hannibal) but he had a lot of advantages in their final battle and he doesn't quite command the same respect and awe despite being the victor.
Some of Scipio's victories were brilliant though. I don't think i've come across a battle like the final battle between him and Hannibal.
How old are you mate? That was a while ago if I'm not wrong.
I didn't know he cut hair
And fixed mobile phones.
What about his son John David though? Now that he looks established in Hollywood, I sure would have been nice to see him portray hannibal in the younger years while Denzel could play Hannibal in his later years. Hannibal passed away between age 64 and 66 after 2 changes of allegiance out of Carthage, but his biggest feats in the Second Punic War happened when he was in his late 20s/early 30s.Nothing a little CGI cant fix
To be serious though, if Joaquin Phoenix can pull of 27 year old Napoleon at the age of 49, as the early reviews seem to indicate, no reason to think Denzel cant do the same, the guy oozes charisma.
In the upcoming Godzilla-related series, Wyatt Russell portrays the younger version of the character portrayed by his father Kurt Russell. That should offer an interesting dynamic.
Unfortunately age isn't the only issue in Denzel playing Hannibal.