Harry Kane | Bayern Munich player

Hammondo

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I can't really think of many examples of that. Liverpool fell to pieces without Suarez. Chelsea were shit for a few years after Costa. Maybe City post Aguero, but its City under Pep they're going to win no matter what. Spurs are doing alright now but lets see where they are at the end of the season. I suppose Arsenal did better after Aubameyang but I think a peak Aubameyang still walks into their current team which has everything except a striker.
City scored less goals with Haaland, we scored more without Ronaldo. I remember a season where Rooney was injured for a decent period, I think over Christmas, and we scored more per game without him than with him and got more points. That's off the top of my head, there are going to be plenty of examples.
 

Scroto Baggins

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Two injuries to their side and they looked a championship side vs Wolves.
And the suspensions of Romero and Udogie on top of those injuries. It meant the team looked a lot like Conte ball, just without Kane to bail them out.
 

Wiesenlooser

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You're using the coefficients from 5 games played in European competitions to prove the strength of a league? Why not look at the last 5 years as a whole (https://kassiesa.net/uefa/data/method5/crank2024.html) to see that Germany is very far behind the likes of England and Spain, and they're only holding 4th place because Bayern do a lot of heavy lifting for the entire league.
Sure bro. That's a 20 point gap between Bundesliga and Netherlands, but only 4 point difference between LaLiga and Bundesliga. The way you are representing the statistics is quite foolish. Saying the Bundesliga is trash is just ridiculous. Honestly, I don't even see United beating Leverkusen at the moment.
 

Acrobat7

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Sure bro. That's a 20 point gap between Bundesliga and Netherlands, but only 4 point difference between LaLiga and Bundesliga. The way you are representing the statistics is quite foolish. Saying the Bundesliga is trash is just ridiculous. Honestly, I don't even see United beating Leverkusen at the moment.
Current United is not beating Bayer, Leverkusen, Leipzig, Stuttgart or Dortmund to be honest.
 

crossy1686

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Sure bro. That's a 20 point gap between Bundesliga and Netherlands, but only 4 point difference between LaLiga and Bundesliga. The way you are representing the statistics is quite foolish. Saying the Bundesliga is trash is just ridiculous. Honestly, I don't even see United beating Leverkusen at the moment.
You and me both, I'm surprised we beat Luton last weekend, but that doesn't change the fact the Bundesliga is a massively inferior league to the rest of the European leagues. Take Bayern out of the league and you're no better than the Dutch league.
 

hasanejaz88

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You and me both, I'm surprised we beat Luton last weekend, but that doesn't change the fact the Bundesliga is a massively inferior league to the rest of the European leagues. Take Bayern out of the league and you're no better than the Dutch league.
If I remember correctly Bundesliga sides have been regularly beating La Liga teams, outside of Real Madrid, in the previous few seasons.

To say the BL is far behind the La Liga is ridiculous. EPL is ahead of everyone but the other leagues are very close to one another, if not the same.
 

Sarni

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This cannot be since the BL is turd and Bayern gets all their players for free from their domestic "competitors".
Bundesliga is a decent league. Great stadiums, great fans, good scouting, teams tend to be well organized and there’s plenty of competition across the league. I like how being a badly run organization gets punished and you have clubs like Hamburg or Schalke struggling to get back to the top division because there are just so many better run teams around them, and a team like Hertha getting relegated. This almost never happens in England because the big boys just buy their way out of trouble.

I notoriously cringe at the disdain English fans show for other leagues. Yes, PL has infinitely more money and is a stronger league overall but it’s not like Luton and Burnley would be so much harder to beat than Union Berlin or Koln.
 

crossy1686

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If I remember correctly Bundesliga sides have been regularly beating La Liga teams, outside of Real Madrid, in the previous few seasons.

To say the BL is far behind the La Liga is ridiculous. EPL is ahead of everyone but the other leagues are very close to one another, if not the same.
So a team can beat another team in a one off cup competition and that means the league is better or just as good?

This is what I mean, you guys are so out of touch with what a competitive league looks like you think beating another team once means your league is a high quality. In England, and sometimes Spain, it’s common for lower ranked teams to beat big teams in cup competitions. Does that mean League 1 is better than the PL? No, it does not.

When you play a game that is lacking intensity and any form of competitive nature at the weekend you can go all out in a midweek game against serious opposition.
 

Acrobat7

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Oh god, not the "the PL is so competitive that our teams exhaust themselves over the weekend and therefore underperfom in the CL/EL" story again :lol:
 

Acrobat7

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So a team can beat another team in a one off cup competition and that means the league is better or just as good?

This is what I mean, you guys are so out of touch with what a competitive league looks like you think beating another team once means your league is a high quality. In England, and sometimes Spain, it’s common for lower ranked teams to beat big teams in cup competitions. Does that mean League 1 is better than the PL? No, it does not.

When you play a game that is lacking intensity and any form of competitive nature at the weekend you can go all out in a midweek game against serious opposition.
Maybe you should look at the Germann Cup results...
 

crossy1686

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Maybe you should look at the Germann Cup results...
So why is this notion of beating a team in a cup competition so holy for you guys? You're clearly aware of how it works. The strength of a league isn't based on who beats who in the CL or a cup competition, it's based on who can beat who every weekend, and seeing as Bayern Munich have won the last 11 titles shows exactly how strong the league is.
 

Acrobat7

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So why is this notion of beating a team in a cup competition so holy for you guys? You're clearly aware of how it works. The strength of a league isn't based on who beats who in the CL or a cup competition, it's based on who can beat who every weekend, and seeing as Bayern Munich have won the last 11 titles shows exactly how strong the league is.
You are shifting the goal post. Btw, no one is arguing, that the Bundesliga is as good as or as competitive as the PL.
 

DJ Jeff

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City scored less goals with Haaland, we scored more without Ronaldo. I remember a season where Rooney was injured for a decent period, I think over Christmas, and we scored more per game without him than with him and got more points. That's off the top of my head, there are going to be plenty of examples.
So what, a top team is better off not having a great goalscorer? I doubt that
 

stefan92

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So what, a top team is better off not having a great goalscorer? I doubt that
As always context matters. City scored less with Haaland, but played a more stable defence (goal difference still improved with him) and won the CL. Signing Haaland allowed them to sacrifice some of their free flowing game to grind out better results.
 

hasanejaz88

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So a team can beat another team in a one off cup competition and that means the league is better or just as good?

This is what I mean, you guys are so out of touch with what a competitive league looks like you think beating another team once means your league is a high quality. In England, and sometimes Spain, it’s common for lower ranked teams to beat big teams in cup competitions. Does that mean League 1 is better than the PL? No, it does not.

When you play a game that is lacking intensity and any form of competitive nature at the weekend you can go all out in a midweek game against serious opposition.
It's not one off, like I said they've beaten then multiple times over the past couple of seasons.
 

Wiesenlooser

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You and me both, I'm surprised we beat Luton last weekend, but that doesn't change the fact the Bundesliga is a massively inferior league to the rest of the European leagues. Take Bayern out of the league and you're no better than the Dutch league.
This is just bogus. Leverkusen, Dortmund and Red Bull are well ahead of the Dutch League.
 

Wiesenlooser

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So why is this notion of beating a team in a cup competition so holy for you guys? You're clearly aware of how it works. The strength of a league isn't based on who beats who in the CL or a cup competition, it's based on who can beat who every weekend, and seeing as Bayern Munich have won the last 11 titles shows exactly how strong the league is.
My bad I thought City was winning the League 3 years in a row.
 

crossy1686

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My bad I thought City was winning the League 3 years in a row.
Simple maths show that 11 is much more than 3, and I never said the PL wasn’t at its most competitive when City are clearly the best side. We can have this conversation again when City are on their 11th title and Bayern are on their 19th if you like?
 

Wiesenlooser

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Simple maths show that 11 is much more than 3, and I never said the PL wasn’t at its most competitive when City are clearly the best side. We can have this conversation again when City are on their 11th title and Bayern are on their 19th if you like?
I thought the last 5 years were what matters?
 

stefan92

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Simple maths show that 11 is much more than 3, and I never said the PL wasn’t at its most competitive when City are clearly the best side. We can have this conversation again when City are on their 11th title and Bayern are on their 19th if you like?
Please don't. At least not in the Harry Kane thread. I get a bit of discussion about the strength of the PL and BL to better understand how good he really is and what his stats mean, but please don't go into this level of discussion, that fits much better in more general threads (or preferably none as it always quickly turns into a quite unbearable exchange of weak arguments)
 

crossy1686

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I thought the last 5 years were what matters?
That’s as far back as UEFA judge leagues based on qualification for the CL. Germany are currently 4th based on the last 5 years (thanks only to Bayern Munich). The principal poster tried to suggest the league was good because Bayern had performed well in the CL in their last 5 games as if that was some measure of how good the German league is.
 

crossy1686

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Please don't. At least not in the Harry Kane thread. I get a bit of discussion about the strength of the PL and BL to better understand how good he really is and what his stats mean, but please don't go into this level of discussion, that fits much better in more general threads (or preferably none as it always quickly turns into a quite unbearable exchange of weak arguments)
Agreed, there’s some incredibly weak arguments defending the 18 team only Bundesliga in here, almost as bad as the defences most German teams put out on a weekly basis.
 

Elon's Musk

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When you play a game that is lacking intensity and any form of competitive nature at the weekend you can go all out in a midweek game against serious opposition.
Is this not the inverse of the PSG/champions league argument?
 

crossy1686

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Is this not the inverse of the PSG/champions league argument?
Could be? But have PSG ever had a better team than Bayern? Plus, Bayern have that German core that have been together for years, PSG are thrown together with whoever had a good season last season and a bunch of divas. Bayern probably beat them 9 times out of 10.
 

Acrobat7

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Could be? But have PSG ever had a better team than Bayern? Plus, Bayern have that German core that have been together for years, PSG are thrown together with whoever had a good season last season and a bunch of divas. Bayern probably beat them 9 times out of 10.
Mate, please move this discussion into the appropriate threads.
 

crossy1686

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Mate, please move this discussion into the appropriate threads.
The discussion is relevant, and I didn’t start it. My comment was referring to Harry Kane being a very good player and he will absolutely score a hat trick most weeks due to the level of opposition he faces most weekends. Then an urgent news story broke on German tv about my comment and every Bundesliga watching German joined the Caf to reply to my post.
 

Wiesenlooser

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You and me both, I'm surprised we beat Luton last weekend, but that doesn't change the fact the Bundesliga is a massively inferior league to the rest of the European leagues. Take Bayern out of the league and you're no better than the Dutch league.
So I actually did the work and calculated the UEFA coefficient without Bayern Munich. And the actual result is 75.5 points without Bayern vs 77.3 points with Bayern.

That's still MILES ahead of the dutch League with 57 points. You're just talking nonsense trash.
 

crossy1686

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So I actually did the work and calculated the UEFA coefficient without Bayern Munich. And the actual result is 75.5 points without Bayern vs 77.3 points with Bayern.

That's still MILES ahead of the dutch League with 57 points. You're just talking nonsense trash.
I’d run those numbers again if I were you mate.
 

Wiesenlooser

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I’d run those numbers again if I were you mate.
You're actually right there was a small error, but it's still rather high (73.8) compared to the Dutch league

Sure:

22-23: 110 (21+18+18+16+15+15+7) / 7 = 15.7
21-22: 87.5 (28+20+14+11+8+6.5) / 6 = 14.6
20-21: 79.5 (22+17+15+12+10+3.5) / 6 = 13.25
19-20: 95 (27+18+18+14+12+6) / 6 = 15.8
18-19: 86.5 (24+18+17+11+9.5+7) / 6 = 14.4

= 73.8

TLDR you talked trash. Hope you can at least acknowledge that.
 
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Abizzz

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I don't understand this discussion any more. Kane has scored plenty in a Tottenham side that sometimes included great players (Modric and few others) and often didn't. Against some better PL defenses and a lot against weaker PL defenses. He's doing it in Bundesliga and the Champions League. The same for England.

Some apparently not taking it too well that a player like that went to a league they appear to have no interest in and know nothing about.
 

DJ Jeff

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I don't understand this discussion any more. Kane has scored plenty in a Tottenham side that sometimes included great players (Modric and few others) and often didn't. Against some better PL defenses and a lot against weaker PL defenses. He's doing it in Bundesliga and the Champions League. The same for England.

Some apparently not taking it too well that a player like that went to a league they appear to have no interest in and know nothing about.
Kane never played with Bale or Modric. He repeatedly carried Spurs on his back with just Son (and for a while Alli) backing him up.
 

Abizzz

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Kane never played with Bale or Modric. He repeatedly carried Spurs on his back with just Son (and for a while Alli) backing him up.
I just checked it and you are correct. Could have sworn Modric was still around when it suddenly started clicking for Kane but he went the summer before.
 

Acrobat7

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The discussion is relevant, and I didn’t start it. My comment was referring to Harry Kane being a very good player and he will absolutely score a hat trick most weeks due to the level of opposition he faces most weekends. Then an urgent news story broke on German tv about my comment and every Bundesliga watching German joined the Caf to reply to my post.
Maybe it is due to the fact, that Harry Kane is a great striker. He scored for Spurs and scores for England and Bayern.

You're the one who claims that the Bundesliga without Bayern is practically the Dutch League. This is mindless bollocks and suggests that it would be nice if you were better off putting these theories in the "Buli is turd" thread.
 

crossy1686

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Maybe it is due to the fact, that Harry Kane is a great striker. He scored for Spurs and scores for England and Bayern.

You're the one who claims that the Bundesliga without Bayern is practically the Dutch League. This is mindless bollocks and suggests that it would be nice if you were better off putting these theories in the "Buli is turd" thread.
Kane is a very good striker, we've seen that most weeks in the PL and for England, and he regularly scores lots of goals against weaker opposition for both, which all great strikers do. He's not just all of a sudden developed into a better forward because he's arrived in the mighty Bundesliga a couple of months ago.
 

Wiesenlooser

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Kane is a very good striker, we've seen that most weeks in the PL and for England, and he regularly scores lots of goals against weaker opposition for both, which all great strikers do. He's not just all of a sudden developed into a better forward because he's arrived in the mighty Bundesliga a couple of months ago.
Love how you just ignore that your BS claims have been debunked.
 

stefan92

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Kane is a very good striker, we've seen that most weeks in the PL and for England, and he regularly scores lots of goals against weaker opposition for both, which all great strikers do. He's not just all of a sudden developed into a better forward because he's arrived in the mighty Bundesliga a couple of months ago.
Of course he didn't and nobody claimed that. The quality difference between Bayern and their average opponent is more in their favour than it is for Spurs, so naturally Kane can score more if he integrates properly with his team (which he did very quickly which is why people rightfully praise him).

That is partially caused by Bayern being better than Spurs and by the average PL team being better than the average BL team, it's all straightforward and this would be a nice thread if we wouldn't need to discuss extreme positions here.