Maybe the same could be said for Arsenal and the dippers, but to include United in that group is a little off the mark. We won 2 trophies last season and the FA cup the season before that, not a bad haul considering the clear state of transition we are currently in.
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Yeah, winning trophies is never bad, but for me you've been far off the pace since Fergie retired so I don't think it's an outrageous statement at all to argue that the same questions of joining spurs hold true for United (and you've been even further away from winning what really matters). For me, winning a second tier European competition without any of the top European teams to qualify for the CL doesn't make players believe you're more likely to win the PL or CL. There are obviously other factors as well, money being the big one, but I think the same questions you raised of Spurs hold true for United as well despite your league cup and EL win. If such cups mattered then then Arsenal would probably have no issue keeping Sanchez happy for example since they've won it three times in the last 4 years. But they are not, because they are not close to being part of Europes elite, and atm neither are you (or we).
Spurs never were or never will be part of any elite , at least Liverpool like a tired old whore still has their memory's and can still pretend they are beautiful and attractive even if everyone know those days are long behind them.Seeing them linked with top end players in Europe just makes one smile . Of course your still beautiful dear , really you are .
. Arsenal , well they will still be Arsenal , City are still trying to buy success and class , so really the only two teams in England that can be considered part of the European elite are Chelsea (though their is a very strange smell) and UTD
Back in the 80s there was a big five - Liverpool, Man United, Arsenal, Spurs and Everton. Spurs have been and are a big club and will be bigger soon.
Never said it was, but you don't need reminding that Spurs haven't won the league or anything else for god knows how long.
So while it may not be exclusive to spurs they are still the new fish swimming in unfamiliar waters. Only Spurs form of the past 2 years, the current team and it's manager lend any credence whatsoever to the idea that Spurs can be winners.Utd have undeniably fell away since SAF, left of course, but we have still won FA cup, League Cup and Europa league in that time. Arsenal had their poorest season ever and still won the FA cup last season, making that 3 FA cups in the past 4 years.
Even Liverpool, who haven't won much recently, can still boast being the second most successful English club ever, and i'd prefer not to dwell too long upon their European successes.....
So all your rivals are far more established in terms of a winning history and competing regularly for trophies than Spurs. Spurs have to keep on improving just to keep up and lack the money to really kick on like a City did. All your rivals have a proven history of winning, whereas Spurs chance of convincing anybody they can reach new heights is now, with this team and this manager. If you don't win the title this year after finishing second, then when will you? You simply have no precedent suggesting that you can maintain or even achieve this current level with a different manager, whereas most of your rivals have managed to maintain certain levels and win trophies under a variation of managers, tactics and personnel.
Like i said spurs are great right now, but if you don't keep on improving and actually win something, it won't be too long before your manager and some players at least, start to consider pastures new. Can spurs still be a similar force if Poch leaves, and they were to lose a few players? Maybe, but it would certainly be setting a new precedent, they simply haven't done so before. That's why i say it's vital for Spurs to kick on this year, maintain the momentum and win a fecking trophy for god's sake! Only winning convinces players of not only your club, but those of others, that they can win again.
I hope you do it, honestly. If Utd are not destined to win the league, then i would love nothing more than seeing Spurs lift it. Would be fantatsic for our game to see an exciting, attacking team based around young, talented home grown players win the title again, it's been a while!
No, it's been 4 years: Bale in 2013.
Nor is it true that "For the first 8 of those [nine] years you didn't have any players that other teams wanted". There have been at least 4 (and probably more): Modric, Bale, Kane and Alli.
Walker - if he leaves (and that's still an IF) - is not one of our star players. He's a very good RB, but we have a very decent replacement in Trippier.
True, but then Chelsea didn't have the extra burden of European football - which this season they will have.
Huh?!?
Bale left
Modric left.
Nobody wanted Alli until right now.
Nobody wanted Kane until right now.
The latter two are fabulous footballers. But your problem starts now. Not when they signed. Alli could play anywhere. Kane would start almost anywhere. They were commodities the whole world knew about only after this season. They're absolutely proven. Now extremely valuable.
You're moving forward as a club but it's ridiculous to suggest that you won't sell your assets if they want to leave. You've done it forever. EVERYONE does it. It's the latter point I'm pointing fun at. We lost Ronaldo. We perhaps should have lost DDG. Arsenal lost Van Persie. Juve lost Pogba, Vidal. Dortmund lose countless players.
There are just many more clubs that can take your best players if they want them. Pretending you're immune to that 'Because Levy' is insane.
It would be more accurate to say "We lose all of our world class players to better teams" than it would be to say "Selling our best players stopped 9 years ago". It's just coincidental that Modric and Bale were desired by Real. Had they not been, they'd be playing for City, United or Chelsea.
Your earlier criteria were Spurs players "that everyone wanted, who wanted to leave, that an English club could afford".
Both Bale and Modric fitted that bill, yet they weren't sold to a Prem rival (which is my point). You call it "coincidental", but it wasn't ... it was club policy not to sell to a Prem rival.
As for Kane, you don't think he was wanted last summer, after winning the golden boot for the first time and showing that his previous season wasn't just a one-season wonder?
You're deluded. If Bale or Modric wanted United over Real they'd have gone there. Are you honestly disputing that? That would be like me suggesting Ronaldo wanted to stay.
Yes, you may have a preference to sell overseas. ALL clubs do. But you'll happily sell to a rival at the right price. You're happy to sell Walker. Apply all the mental Glastonastics to it you like. Bottom line; You're selling your first choice left back to a team that finished a place below you last year. You'd sell them Alli if they oferred £100m and nobody else did. You'd sell them your stadium if they offered enough too.It's business.
I absolutely think that teams may have wanted Kane last year. But Munich didn't, Real didn't. They perhaps still don't. But nobody else wanted him either. United couldn't afford him & Pogba. Chelsea had Costa. City didn't look keen. Nobody else had the cash. He's just had another cracking season.
If Kane hands in a transfer request and doesn't want to go overseas, he's sold to a rival. You won't keep him.
I've already said that Walker is not one of our star players, and in any case he hasn't yet left and might not do so.
Beyond this the topic has been done to death already, so we'd best just leave it there. So come back to me when and if there's a breach in what I say has been club policy for the last 9 years.
I'll be happy to Sir. I'm rarely petty, but I'd be delighted to return and ask if we reset the clock or just make some new rules.
Fwiw, I'd rather see Spurs win the league next year than anyone other than United (obviously).
After City and the dippers, Spurs are the last team I want to win it. Should they do so any hope of acquiring Kane and/or Alli will have gone out the window. We need them to fail in order for us to profit.
Pretty small time mate.
Realistic if you ask me.
A good point, i doubt they will be able to field the same team anywhere near as often once they are playing twice a week. You have been unlucky in that regard over the past 2 seasons, both times pipped by teams who could regularly field a settled side only because they were playing once a week. In hindsight, maybe you should have finished outside the top 4 and then freed yourselves up to have a real go at the PL next year.
Maybe I'm putting too little emphasis on history of winning, but in my eyes it only matters if this group of players and manager have shown it. I don't think any player are more likely to sign for Liverpool because of their past triumphs, and going further I don't think any player will sign for United because of the teams Fergie built. If he was still there, and there was a continuity then it would be part of their decision making, but players decide where to go based on future promises of the projects they can be part of. This 'winning history' is not something I think comes into place much at all, although this history have helped the clubs be in their current financial position, and in which case it helps players see the potential of the project (and also fill their pockets).Never said it was, but you don't need reminding that Spurs haven't won the league or anything else for god knows how long.
Utd have undeniably fell away since SAF, left of course, but we have still won FA cup, League Cup and Europa league in that time. Arsenal had their poorest season ever and still won the FA cup last season, making that 3 FA cups in the past 4 years.
Even Liverpool, who haven't won much recently, can still boast being the second most successful English club ever, and i'd prefer not to dwell too long upon their European successes.....
So all your rivals are far more established in terms of a winning history and competing regularly for trophies than Spurs. Spurs have to keep on improving just to keep up and lack the money to really kick on like a City did. All your rivals have a proven history of winning, whereas Spurs chance of convincing anybody they can reach new heights is now, with this team and this manager. If you don't win the title this year after finishing second, then when will you? You simply have no precedent suggesting that you can maintain or even achieve this current level with a different manager, whereas most of your rivals have managed to maintain certain levels and win trophies under a variation of managers, tactics and personnel.
Like i said spurs are great right now, but if you don't keep on improving and actually win something, it won't be too long before your manager and some players at least, start to consider pastures new. Can spurs still be a similar force if Poch leaves, and they were to lose a few players? Maybe, but it would certainly be setting a new precedent, they simply haven't done so before. That's why i say it's vital for Spurs to kick on this year, maintain the momentum and win a fecking trophy for god's sake! Only winning convinces players of not only your club, but those of others, that they can win again.
I hope you do it, honestly. If Utd are not destined to win the league, then i would love nothing more than seeing Spurs lift it. Would be fantatsic for our game to see an exciting, attacking team based around young, talented home grown players win the title again, it's been a while!
Now for Spurs fans we have seen a stable improvement, and not just a sudden two year flash, we have had some great teams lately, and not just with Poch although it is true that we have not been as close to the title as these last 2 years. I doubt we'll suddenly fall into obscurity should he leave, although it would definitely be a big blow. A
And I'm happy at least one United fan are appreciating Spurs
- I used to always cheer on Fergie's teams for the title over the oil teams or other challengers, and the way he built his team is to be admired.None of the reported sources for this obvious non-event are reliable. Player isnt for sale.
I think prices are being hugely inflated in peoples minds and are nowhere near realistic or anything close to what clubs will pay.
£160m for Neymar? £130m for Kane? £120m for Mbappe?
Yes the market is inflated at the moment but the world record was set last year at £89m and took years to get to that number. It hasn't magically doubled in 11months. Everyone needs to take a step back and get real because if these prices were real, no one is going anywhere, which defeats the whole purpose of a transfer market.
£160m for Neymar? £130m for Kane? £120m for Mbappe?
Yes the market is inflated at the moment but the world record was set last year at £89m and took years to get to that number. It hasn't magically doubled in 11months. Everyone needs to take a step back and get real because if these prices were real, no one is going anywhere, which defeats the whole purpose of a transfer market.
It is surprising how little Spurs have one over the years when as you say they have been one of the big clubs and some of the players they have had
The Spurs hatred on here is absolute cringe.
I dont know what the nine year period is but generally speaking I would say Spurs have always had top quality and world class players other clubs would want. In fact though they have one of the best sides they have had for a while, which to me is down to the manager rather than the players, who do they have that any of the big clubs outside the premiership would try to sign at the probably fees? Rose and Walker are both average full backs ridiculously over priced. I dont think Kane is world class at all and top clubs wouldnt be interested outside the premiership, Ali is the true quality player and still needs a year or two of development and consistency before he is truly proven as i dont think he is over hyped but he has some way to go still. Eriksen, Dembele, Verthongen are all good players.....but Bale, Modric, Berbatov, Robbie Keane, Defoe were all big sales with quite a few big clubs being interested n the players BEFORE they went to Spurs. If you made a best eleven of Spurs players in my lifetime it would be up there with any of the top clubs Hoddle, Waddle, Gascoigne, Campbell, Sheringham, Lineker for example are amongst the very best English players since we won the world cup. SPurs are a massive club that has under achieved and has been a bit of a selling club trying to hold on to there very best players....but there best players have often been world class Modric, Bale, Klinsman, Berbatov. These are all players I think would be more in demand around the world than any in the current Spurs team with the possible exception of there keeper who is amongst the worlds best.
Remember who you're dealing with.
The fella is making the wrong argument from his 9 year trend.
The actual take always are;
- In the last 9 years Spurs have had a few world class players wanted by top clubs. They never had that before.
- They have built a supporting cast and club framework that has encouraged their latest two 'jewels' to stay for longer.
- The league is no longer strong enough that local rivals are European super powers, they're second tier. They aren't instantly attractive to the Spurs squad.
- The league has greater financial parity which enables them to retain talent compared to years gone by.
There's a lot of bullshit and bluster to suggest that Levy controls all and will never sell to a rival. It's nonsense. Some of it is great management of the club. Most of it is market forces that swung in their favour.
That's no slight on Spurs.
United are only as huge as they are right now in the modern era as we hit the 1992 football lottery. The Premier League boom. The Plc. The perfect manager. The kids breaking through. Some of it was by design. Lots of it was fortuitous timing.
Success is marrying lots and lots of hard work to bucketloads of talent. You need a few elements of luck too though. It's stupid to dismiss that.
I don't hate spurs. But certain fans are tiresome.
Lol ... Jimmy Greaves, Glenn Hoddle, Ossie Ardiles, Gasgcoigne, Klinsmann, Danny Blanchflower, Dave Mackay and many more all say "Hi".
Yeah, what a greasy horror show this thread is.
Personally I have zero animosity towards Spurs. I'd rather they win the league than any of our rivals in years we can't
We should be trying to buy him instead of Morata.
Linekar, Waddle, Ginola, Davids, Campbell, VDV, Alli and Harry Kane etc.
Take a gander at the sheer wealth of talent Spurs have had on their books over the years, so good in their respective positions that world class would not be an overstatement, yet none of them - Blanchflower aside some 60 years ago - ever managed to win a league title with Spurs. It's all well and good having 1, 2 or even 3 great players in your team, but when you surround them with dross, like Spurs have been doing for 60 years, you'll win nothing. Having a few great players among your squad does not equate to having a great team. A painful lesson that we United fans have had to learn the hard way recently.
Of course that was yesteryear, today Spurs have won of the best teams in the premier league. Literally every position covered in quality. Class all over the pitch with the hunger and desire to match it. And the rest of the footballing world are beginning to notice. There are a lot of envious eyes on Spurs right now, Kane, Alli, Erikson, Walker, Rose, both CB's and LLoris. A collective of quality that Spurs have never seen before. Yet no clubs are wasting their time bidding for them because Levy has all the bargaining chips and rightly so. Only way this will change is if Spurs fail to progress next season. Up to this point, the players have been happy to recieve a sub-standard wage and the obligatory pat on the back as a reward for their efforts. But next season they will demand more from themselves, a top 4 finish won't be enough and neither will a pat on the back. Failure to win something will see a multitude of bids come in. Guaranteed.
Next season is huge for Spurs.
Hate is a strong word and completely incorrect if you ask me. How could any United fan genuinely feel anything towards Spurs? they are a London club for a start, I had personally never met a Spurs fan before I began working in London a few years back. They were an afterthought to me, insignificant even. Don't know anout anyone else but that view is changing rapidly, Spurs have at least 3 players who could walk in to our first team at this very moment - Kane, Alli and Walker - and a fair few others who could stake a claim for a squad place. We're envious more than anything.
Now City and Liverpool on the otherhand...
All top class managers will be in their second years. Mou,Pep,Conte, and Klopp. And also Wenger in his final year will try his ass for the best. So all the big boys are more stable, except perhaps Arsenal if Alexis leave.
And if Koeman and Everton can retain the service of Lukaku, it will be a dark horse too.
Some posters here overated Spurs and its players too much. Specially Kane. The New Shearer, ha ? Deary me.
Lets see if Spurs and Kane can do it one more time.
Even getting the top 4 will be hard for Spurs in 2017/2018 season.
Same players, same method, won't repeat. Check Atletico Madrid for an example. Spurs is a weak version of Atletico Madrid.
And if Koeman and Everton can retain the service of Lukaku, it will be a dark horse too.
Some posters here overated Spurs and its players too much. Specially Kane. The New Shearer, ha ? Deary me.
Lets see if Spurs and Kane can do it one more time.
Even getting the top 4 will be hard for Spurs in 2017/2018 season.
Same players, same method, won't repeat. Check Atletico Madrid for an example. Spurs is a weak version of Atletico Madrid.
When posed with the question last season, "will Spurs finish in the top 4?" this forum voted overwhelmingly "no".
It's repeated for the last two seasons.
Same players - except the young average age has meant they've improved due to increased experience and coaching time.
Same method? Not really, since we've switched to mostly playing with a back 3 compared to the season before last.
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