I think in a way that was doomed to happen unless he had stayed at Valencia. He is best as a number 10 but not many big clubs play that way and he is not quite at the level to play a role that important for the ones that do.
Has Juan Mata been a flop?
- Thread starter Raees
- Start date
This. Plus i would add 2 things.Buying one of the best 10s in the prem then playing him on RW, With the help of Hindsight it probably wasn't a good idea.
Just need to convert him into a FB now.
1) He wasn't a flop at all. He was solid buy. Had great games, scored 40 goals for us. Lots of them were crucial goals.
2) Playing Lingard on no10 instead of him was a football sin
Yes, undoubtedly. Good player, doesn't quite fit the United style.
Quality player and I don't even think he was on the decline when we got him, but the way we played him in a team that year by year seemed to get worse just didnt fit him.
We've had so many players who in another era, under the great Ferguson would have done incredible.
He was a few seasons back still very effective in terms of his contribution but could have done with having better players, with pace around him to flourish like David Silva did at city imo.
We've had so many players who in another era, under the great Ferguson would have done incredible.
He was a few seasons back still very effective in terms of his contribution but could have done with having better players, with pace around him to flourish like David Silva did at city imo.
He has been mostly a disappointing signing that's for sure.
His last full season with Chelsea he scored 20 goals.
Here he never managed to get past 10 goals in a season. For a forward that's terrible.
His last full season with Chelsea he scored 20 goals.
Here he never managed to get past 10 goals in a season. For a forward that's terrible.
He hasn’t met the expectation & United’s standard. The level of squad player, I’ll leave it that way.
Not a flop but not close to a success either.
Below-par about sums up his career here. A passenger in virtually every game away from OT, and a passenger in most of the big games as well. With just a few notable exceptions.
Probably passed the ball to Valencia more than any other United player, and probably received more passes from Valencia than any other United player... says all you need to know, really.
Below-par about sums up his career here. A passenger in virtually every game away from OT, and a passenger in most of the big games as well. With just a few notable exceptions.
Probably passed the ball to Valencia more than any other United player, and probably received more passes from Valencia than any other United player... says all you need to know, really.
If you can't see the pattern going on with signings that have excelled elsewhere, only to underperform here, and blame the players for that or call them flops, you deserve this.
Lets look at the facts here. He wasn't a winger when he was purchased and he has almost exclusively played on the right wing because we haven't had a winger and/or we haven't played with a #10 despite him being here.
If we would have had a half decent manager at any time during his time with us then he would have been played as a #10 but we've gone the route of using Lingard instead whenever we've played with a #10, transformed aging wingers into full backs whilst not buying any wingers, extended contracts with CBs that spend too much time training with physio's etc.
The only player that has been a success here since SAF retired is De Gea.
At least Mata has been a good influence, tried to play football, been one of the few players who always gives 100% and in 14/15 he beat Liverpool twice.
What could have been if he had been starting as a #10 but managers have persisted with Lingard who has half as many goals and assists. Disappointing tenure but I'm not disappointed with him.
If we would have had a half decent manager at any time during his time with us then he would have been played as a #10 but we've gone the route of using Lingard instead whenever we've played with a #10, transformed aging wingers into full backs whilst not buying any wingers, extended contracts with CBs that spend too much time training with physio's etc.
The only player that has been a success here since SAF retired is De Gea.
At least Mata has been a good influence, tried to play football, been one of the few players who always gives 100% and in 14/15 he beat Liverpool twice.
What could have been if he had been starting as a #10 but managers have persisted with Lingard who has half as many goals and assists. Disappointing tenure but I'm not disappointed with him.
Mata has almost zero memorable moments for the club. A terrible signing that the club never even used him in his best position.
A panic January buy for a player with a name.
In some ways, really sums up what has been wrong with United since SAF left.
A panic January buy for a player with a name.
In some ways, really sums up what has been wrong with United since SAF left.
Same with me, he maybe Chelsea's best player but nowhere near the league's best. While he was at Chelsea, Chelsea never challenge for the league title. Definite panic buy from Moyes, and I never once thought he'll take us to top level since he signed and he's pretty much have mediocre career at United. Cannot believe we sold Nani before him.
People saying he's wasted at RW, well he definitely played some games at no.10 and I don't think he impressed much, when he played at no.10 he keep losing the ball the moment the opponent make slight contact at him because he's so weak and slow
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Mata was one of our highest paid and largest signings over the time he's been at the club. Berbatov was a flop despite being our top scorer for 1 season, Veron was a flop despite being quality in europe. When you pay a large amount of money and pay high wages then the player needs to deliver as a star. Mata came nowhere close.
You can blame all the managers, but he couldnt convince a single one of our managers to start him in the hole as our main tactic. He did convince some managers that he should start coming inside from the right despite producing very little in the final third, so theres not much of a reason why he couldnt have convinced a manager to play him in the hole every game. We've had several underperforming players who were the manager's picks to start in their favourite position.
During Mata's time at the club, which other player failed to hold down a spot in their favourite position for at least 1 or 2 seasons? I guess maybe Blind but he did a good job converting to CB and had at least 1 good season there. Plus he wasnt a superstar signing like Mata
Basically if Mata isnt a flop of a superstar signing, then its impossible to be one.
You can blame all the managers, but he couldnt convince a single one of our managers to start him in the hole as our main tactic. He did convince some managers that he should start coming inside from the right despite producing very little in the final third, so theres not much of a reason why he couldnt have convinced a manager to play him in the hole every game. We've had several underperforming players who were the manager's picks to start in their favourite position.
During Mata's time at the club, which other player failed to hold down a spot in their favourite position for at least 1 or 2 seasons? I guess maybe Blind but he did a good job converting to CB and had at least 1 good season there. Plus he wasnt a superstar signing like Mata
Basically if Mata isnt a flop of a superstar signing, then its impossible to be one.
Mata was signed for a massive fee at the time. There was a lot of questions even then as to whether he could fit in at United, given the way we played football (under Fergie). It seemed Moyes just panic bought and got a player who had performed well for Chelsea. He wasn't utilised properly 100% of the time in fairness to him and he still had some good moments but he was never good enough to build a team around or be the focal point of the attack as a number 10.
When we bought him, I thought we would be getting a player who could slice open up defences with his passing and would be a joy for our strikers. I've never seen him play a through ball that the likes of Ozil, De Bruyne, Silva, Eriksen do on a regular basis. He's a clever player who pops up with important goals but is a passenger for 80% of the time. A poor buy.
When we bought him, I thought we would be getting a player who could slice open up defences with his passing and would be a joy for our strikers. I've never seen him play a through ball that the likes of Ozil, De Bruyne, Silva, Eriksen do on a regular basis. He's a clever player who pops up with important goals but is a passenger for 80% of the time. A poor buy.
Juanfield, FA Cup Final goal and taking the piss out of Pardews dopey dance, goal vs City in the 4-2 spring to mind.
Wouldnt say he has been a flop but hasnt been an unqualifed success either.
For Mata I expect he is a 8.5/10, but he turns out to be 6.5/10.
Wouldn’t call that a flop, but just not good signing.
For Sanchez though I expect 9/10, but he turns out to be 2/10.
Now I’d call that a massive flop.
Wouldn’t call that a flop, but just not good signing.
For Sanchez though I expect 9/10, but he turns out to be 2/10.
Now I’d call that a massive flop.
Left footed player more suited to central midfield and whose game relies on creativity/intelligence rather than pace, but frequently played as a right winger.
I fully expect him to replace De Gea.
I fully expect him to replace De Gea.
He's a #10 who has been asked to play on the wing. Under Pep he would have probably played as a #8 in the 4-3-3 and been more effective. He's too slow to be a winger but speed is overrated in the midfield. He's a very talented player and his talent has been for the most part wasted. He might not be energitc enough to start in the big games in midfield, but could have played a huge role against the bottom 14 teams...
You can't compare Berbatov and Mata. No way was Berbatov a flop. He even was the PL highest scorer in one season though Fergie treated him badly that season and did not even play in some games. Berbatov rarely lost possession and he also created a lot of chances for others.
Mata on the other hand gets dispossessed a lot of times and put us in danger and have even conceded because of him more than a couple of times. He can never get away from the defenders and even defenders with the ball would always out sprint Mata.
As some of the others have said Moyes got him because he needed to make a name signing after getting Fellaini only during the transfer window. He never was a United type of player. He always loses the 40/60 balls as he is so slow. Yes he runs a lot but it is most of the time useless. I would say he is not a success for sure for United. For the money we played and the hype he was a flop. To be honest maybe he was not that good as he was made out to be?
Mata on the other hand gets dispossessed a lot of times and put us in danger and have even conceded because of him more than a couple of times. He can never get away from the defenders and even defenders with the ball would always out sprint Mata.
As some of the others have said Moyes got him because he needed to make a name signing after getting Fellaini only during the transfer window. He never was a United type of player. He always loses the 40/60 balls as he is so slow. Yes he runs a lot but it is most of the time useless. I would say he is not a success for sure for United. For the money we played and the hype he was a flop. To be honest maybe he was not that good as he was made out to be?
He wasn’t a flop but he hasn’t really worked out either. It’s not entirely his fault as he’s been played out of position for 99% of his time here though.
It’s something we like to do over the years.
Young (RB)
Valencia (RB)
and to a lesser extinct
Fortune (centre mid)
O shea ( centre mid ) (GK)
Neville (centre mid)
Bailly (DCM)
Carrick (CB) injuries had a say in most of these occasions tbf
Alan Smith (CM)
I’d add Martial too I see him that should be up top and it’s his preferred position.
It’s something we like to do over the years.
Young (RB)
Valencia (RB)
and to a lesser extinct
Fortune (centre mid)
O shea ( centre mid ) (GK)
Neville (centre mid)
Bailly (DCM)
Carrick (CB) injuries had a say in most of these occasions tbf
Alan Smith (CM)
I’d add Martial too I see him that should be up top and it’s his preferred position.
He never achieved the success I expected from him when we signed him. We were meant to be getting one of the best players in the league and Chelsea's best player. Yet that level never really materialised. Yet I would hardly call him a flop, he has been solid for us at least, and had some good moments.
If he wasn’t such a nice guy the opinion would more likely be different I feel.
Record signing at the time. Some great moments but majority of the time disappointing and not at the expectations.
We’ll see him in the ‘legends’ teams when he retires though.
Record signing at the time. Some great moments but majority of the time disappointing and not at the expectations.
We’ll see him in the ‘legends’ teams when he retires though.
Course he has. Remember The Special Juan banner? He didn't make that himself and hire someone to display it. He might have delivered all that was expected of him if used correctly, but he's still contributed, still made the effort, still represented the club well on and off the pitch. There should be a few ahead of him at the exit door.
Basically, yes. It pains me to say that. Given only one team can win PL per year, most players will be flops at United. If Mata were playing for someone like Everton he'd be considered a success.
Considering there was a time he was one of the best players in the league, being compared to Silva and Hazard and Cazorla, he's almost certainly not been a success of the level expected. But, who has in those years? I imagine playing him not in his best position hasn't helped.
Yes.
What did people expect to begin with? He was a cast-off from Chelsea, it's not like we managed to get a prized asset away from another top team. I know the Chelsea fans loved him and rated him, but he still wasn't a regular there.
And since the day he's joined he's not been that much of a regular here, and also not played in his best position which hasn't helped. He's been a professional, but nothing more.
For me he's always been too slow, he looks like he's running in mud compared to everyone else, so I never expected much.
And since the day he's joined he's not been that much of a regular here, and also not played in his best position which hasn't helped. He's been a professional, but nothing more.
For me he's always been too slow, he looks like he's running in mud compared to everyone else, so I never expected much.
How would David Silva do as the right-wing of a front three with no coaching?
Mata is a prime example of a player signed with no idea how he would fit into the playing style, and then having his limitations exposed rather than his strengths played to. That said, he was never a creator of goals in the way some might expect of a flighty Spanish floater.
Mata is a prime example of a player signed with no idea how he would fit into the playing style, and then having his limitations exposed rather than his strengths played to. That said, he was never a creator of goals in the way some might expect of a flighty Spanish floater.
Yeah I’d say so, but I wouldn’t blame him too much. He was arguably the best player in the league when he came here, but we just aren’t set up to get the best out of these kind of players. Mata, Kagawa and Mkhitaryan all underwhelmed, and that’s the reason I can never get too excited when I see us linked to players like Isco. We just shunt them onto the wing and tell them to get on with it.
Not a flop.
One of the best signings in the post-Fergie are which isn't saying much but I think he's been a good player for United on and off the pitch.
Obviously his legs have gone a bit and I wouldn't be sad to see him move on but I think he'll be remembered as a good servant.
One of the best signings in the post-Fergie are which isn't saying much but I think he's been a good player for United on and off the pitch.
Obviously his legs have gone a bit and I wouldn't be sad to see him move on but I think he'll be remembered as a good servant.
He is a weird case. You cannot really say a player is a flop when he has 218 games under his belt. The problem is though, that he never lived up to the big expactations we had towards him when he came in 2014. It just tells me that the standard has dropped. You can be quite average, but still get many games for United nowadays. I have nothing against the guy, actually I like him a lot, but he hasn’t been a big success here.
Only reason he's not a flop is because of the absolutely terrible signings made after him. In the Fergie era he would no doubt be seen as a flop but in the post SAF era, Mata looks like an ok to decent buy.
Yes. He was a flop, but more so just a bad signing than him being a disappointment.
Yes. He has been about as effective as Fellaini was here. Few good games but mostly a flop. Mata was supposed to be our David Silva but he turned out to be more of an Obertan. But he played some great games, but I'd honestly say he was good in 1 out of every 6 or 7 games played.
The problem we've had is he was bought by 1 manager with a different philosophy and then multiple other managers came and he just got over looked as let's be honest he isn't built for the PL but play the right system and play him as a 10 then yeah he is a top player. Should have never sold Kagawa as he was a top playmaker
The epitome of how clueless we are after SAF’e retirement, ie buying players and not knowing what to do with them. With a competent DOF, we will have a clear direction on playing style and would only buy players who play in accordance.
No. Performed to the best of his abilities when you consider he never has been given a run of games in his prefered 10 spot.
Always the right attitude, effort and professionalism. Out-talents the lack of his physicality which takes a lot of determination to do.
Always the right attitude, effort and professionalism. Out-talents the lack of his physicality which takes a lot of determination to do.
Absoloutely not been a bright spot over tought times. His goal vs liverpool is enough to not be a flop imo
It would be unfair to call Mata a flop. He was signed halfway through the season and the PL campaign wasnt going good. He was received as a player who could turn things around, but unfortunately 5.5 seasons further, the reasonable conclusion to draw is that he hasnt made the impact that many thought he would. This begs the question which signed player actually did become a success post Sir Alex? Many came and many ‘failed’, due to improper strategies, injuries, unfunctional systems and ofcourse managerial changes. What we can say about Mata is that he is actually a good player, who’d thrive in a good system with good players around him, considering his attacking mind set and skills to accomodate that. He scored Some important goals, with the one in Anfield being arguably being the highlight of his career here. One for the archives ofcourse.
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No. Him, Pogba and Ibra are basically the only successful post-SAF signings.
You could MAYBE throw Fellaini in there due to his crucial goals. That’s it. The rest have failed to live up to the hype or are just not good enough.
You could MAYBE throw Fellaini in there due to his crucial goals. That’s it. The rest have failed to live up to the hype or are just not good enough.
The irony, I think you got all your words on your sentences mixed up there.