Has Moyes 'lost' the players?

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Players like Vidic, Evra and Rio are all on final stages of their careers and if they feel the need to go, we should let them be. The preferred choice would be to have them as subs training and guiding the youngsters, but if they are not happy with that, they should be allowed to leave. If things go the way they seem to be right now, it will be a whole new dressing room next season.

Not just the retirement of Fergie, but the club did a great mistake in letting Gill go at the same time and Moyes compunded it by taking out the coaching staff. With transition all throught he line from CEO to manager to coaches, it has become too big a transition to be handled smoothly and we are facing the effects now. The change in training, strategy, playing style which unsettles players will definitely have been tempered and moderated if we did have the old coaches who can buffer the effects.

 

[Danny1982]

Of course eventually he's gonna lose the players.. Our players are used to winning, if we finish below fourth this season I don't see them having faith in him next season, especially our best players.

 

[Sir Matt]

It's hard to blame the players for having doubts about the man when they go home and and walk past a pile of trophies and medals while he's at home with a bare cabinet befitting the Etihad. They've worked with the most decorated manager of all time and now go to the tied-for-least-decorated manager of all time (zero actual trophies). Still, they have to do their jobs and perform.

I would like to see the number of injuries this season compared to previous years under his training methods at the end of the season. He's long been accused of using philistine training methods to match his football. If it's legitimately creating issues, which he would surely refuse to acknowledge, he doesn't need to be in charge of training. I trust Rene hands down over Moyes to handle the players training. If he loses the dressing room, it will be because he got rid of the backroom staff that had a relationship with the players to replace them with less qualified individuals. Imagine going to work one day with all of the management (that you had a good relationship with) you'd worked with for the last 5-10 years being replaced with new people who didn't appear to know what they were doing. It would be very frustrating trying to relearn everyone and everything that you already know how to do extremely well. There's a reason CEOs don't sack everyone when they take over. They integrate themselves and their philosophy with the company, not replace it.

I doubt he'll ever really have Evra on his side after the public pursuit of his replacement. He's the vice-captain of the club and beloved by the fans. To openly try to replace him isn't going to go down well with anyone, especially when Moyes failed. If he had brought in a replacement and Evra lost out, fair enough, but he undermined the player as soon as he took the job.

 

[Erentz]

I seriously doubt the useless cnut ever had the players anyway.

 

[Isotope]

Didn't exactly know where to put this but:

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

If that wasn't an incentive to believe in the manager, then I don't know what is.

I doubt it's in player's contract. At least, not on the senior ones.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Even amid strife the players would back a manger doing all in their power to alter the pattern of events, if on the other hand Moyes is seen to be repeating previous mistakes there will be a tipping point for some.

Do you remember that infamous substitution of Benitez's whilst at Liverpool, the one greeted with such bewilderment from Torres and Gerrard? I hope United don't get to that point but i wonder how far away we might be.

Of course has he kept on some of the old regime such a turning point could be postponed longer than otherwise.

 

[jem]

I'm still behind Moyes, but even if I wasn't, anyone in the dressing room trying to let their ego dictate who should and shouldn't be manager should be out the door immediately. There's very few players this season who've performed nearly well enough to be questioning anyone other than themselves.

Janujaz could justifiably turn round in the dressing room and say "what the feck are the rest of you doing, are you even up to this?" Maybe Rooney and Jones.

Anyone else would just look like a hypocritical idiot.

I'd throw De Gea in there as well. Very telling that 3 of those 4 players (De Gea, Jones, Januzaj,) are among the youngest in the squad. The veterans have really let the team, and Moyes, down this year.

 

[Stack]

I seriously doubt the useless cnut ever had the players anyway.

lovely.

 

[7even]

What is the cost of replacing Evra, Rio, Vidic and some more players in one window?

Being a leader is all about trust. Either you have or not, black or white. A manager can lose the trust of one or two players if he immediately isolate them from the rest of the squad. But more then that it's a lost case.




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[noodlehair]

What is the cost of replacing Evra, Rio, Vidic and some more players in one window?

Being a leader is all about trust. Either you have or not, black or white. A manager can lose the trust of one or two players if he immediately isolate them from the rest of the squad. But more then that it's a lost case.




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Rio wouldn't even need to be replaced, we need another first team capable left back regardless of who is manager, and Vidic is heading the same way based on his performances.

 

[vijay]

Players like Vidic, Evra and Rio are all on final stages of their careers and if they feel the need to go, we should let them be. The preferred choice would be to have them as subs training and guiding the youngsters, but if they are not happy with that, they should be allowed to leave. If things go the way they seem to be right now, it will be a whole new dressing room next season.

All three have one or two seasons of top flight football left in them, like Zanetti, Thuram, Maldini did at their respective clubs these players can continue to shore up the defence if they have a stable team. The non existent midfield and a disjointed attack has exposed the defence, and these players well past their prime has only brought down their confidence levels. This season is going nowhere, and they have lost their confidence.

 

[oleonenumber20]

All three have one or two seasons of top flight football left in them, like Zanetti, Thuram, Maldini did at their respective clubs these players can continue to shore up the defence if they have a stable team. The non existent midfield and a disjointed attack has exposed the defence, and these players well past their prime has only brought down their confidence levels. This season is going nowhere, and they have lost their confidence.

I don't think all 3 will stay. Rio will retire. Every time he has stepped onto a pitch this season he hasn't performed and I believe he is one of the players who is blaming his lack of form on the manager. Rio was once a great player but he is now a bad apple who likes to shout his mouth to his mates in the media.

Evra and Vidic still have the passion. Evra needs proper competition for his position Moyes and his scouts have identified Luke Shaw as his competitor but he is unlikely to move from Southampton. Vidic needs Phil Jones next to him!

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Timely article:



Manchester United players raise concerns over David Moyes credentials

• Fears in dressing room over Champions League qualification
• Three straight losses leave questions over manager's changes

• Jamie Jackson
• The Guardian, Wednesday 8 January 2014 22.32 GMT

David Moyes saw his Manchester United side lose 2-1 to Sunderland in the first leg of the League Cup semi-final. Photograph: Owen Humphreys/PA
David Moyes faces a fight to convince several senior Manchester United players of his credentials following the dismal form that has resulted in three consecutive defeats for the first time in 13 years.
The Guardian can reveal that some within the dressing room are unsure of Moyes's ability to reverse a sequence that includes a league defeat by Tottenham Hotspur, being knocked out of the FA Cup by Swansea City, and Tuesday's 2-1 loss at Sunderland in the League Cup semi-final, first leg.
The Football Association, in addition, is looking into Moyes's remark after the tie at Sunderland that we are "playing referees as well as the opposition". The manager could face a charge if it is viewed he was commenting on match officials' fairness.
When Moyes was appointed as Sir Alex Ferguson's successor at the close of last season he brought in his own coaches – Steve Round, Phil Neville, Chris Woods, and Jimmy Lumsden, and also appointed Ryan Giggs – while discarding the existing backroom staff of René Meulensteen, Mike Phelan and Eric Steele.
This move is being privately questioned by some within the squad who were happy working with a group that had helped Ferguson oversee part of the most successful period in United's history. According to well-placed sources, there is a bemusement among a number of players, with a strong sense forming that as United won the title by 11 points last term there was little need for Moyes to undergo a complete revamp of a set-up that had a proven winning structure.
Moyes has never won a major trophy as a manager and, for some, his record is now under scrutiny, given the team are 11 points behind the leaders, Arsenal, and have scant chance of retaining the title. There is further concern that United may fail to qualify for the Champions League for the first time since 1995-96, with the side in seventh position, five points behind fourth-placed Liverpool.
While there is no sense of a player mutiny at present, this week's revelation that the club captain, Nemanja Vidic, is exploring leaving this summer, despite United wishing to open discussions over a new deal, is the latest crack in unity.
Before the defeat at Sunderland, in which Vidic scored United's equaliser, his agent, Silvano Martina, told an Italian radio station: "At the moment, I would rule out an extension [to his contract] with Manchester United."
Vidic's disquiet follows Danny Welbeck's denial of the claim last month by Moyes that the manager had to instruct the striker to be "the last off the training field" in order to improve. Within days the player offered a counter-view. "I have been doing that [extra training] ever since I have been at United," he said.
Earlier in December Rio Ferdinand publicly questioned Moyes's policy of naming the team close to a match, rather than the day before, as Ferguson did, stating it could turn the defender "into a madman".
Moyes's pursuit of Leighton Baines to replace Patrice Evra has not gone down well either, given the left-back's popularity in the dressing room. As with Vidic, the Frenchman may consider his options as he is out of contract in the summer.
All of this means that following the loss of the three matches in seven days, some senior players who were serial winners have been left uncertain about the direction of the club under Moyes.
After the defeat at Sunderland Welbeck became the first to voice concern regarding prospects of qualifying for next season's Champions League. Asked if he could understand why supporters are worried United may finish outside of the top four, he said: "I can understand why fans are concerned. We are not around the Champions League spots at the moment. We need to get our form back and just win the next matches."
The striker is unsure why after clinching the title last season United are so far adrift of Arsenal. "I cannot pinpoint one thing why this is happening. We were champions last season and we know that the consistency in our game has not been good enough," said Welbeck. "It is a new experience for us all but the main thing we have to do is look at the next game."
He did state a determination to start winning games. "It is over 10 years since United lost three games in a row, so we know we have to turn it round and win the next match. The manager is very upbeat. He lets the players know he wants to do really well and the players also want to win games for United," he said. "Losing three on the bounce is really not good enough and we want to put that right."

I don't like this uproar by the want to replace a player because he popular in the dressing room. What the hell has that got to do with it. It's their performances on the pitch that matter, not if they are a good laugh. I think Moyes is going to have to weed out the troublemakers in that dressing room. I am beginning to think SAF indulged some of these players more than we realised.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I don't think all 3 will stay. Rio will retire. Every time he has stepped onto a pitch this season he hasn't performed and I believe he is one of the players who is blaming his lack of form on the manager. Rio was once a great player but he is now a bad apple who likes to shout his mouth to his mates in the media.

Evra and Vidic still have the passion. Evra needs proper competition for his position Moyes and his scouts have identified Luke Shaw as his competitor but he is unlikely to move from Southampton. Vidic needs Phil Jones next to him!

Rio has to go, I still like Vidic, but I think Evra has to understand that he will be a backup. We cannot afford to have him as the main LB anymore.

 

[Drifter]

I I am beginning to think SAF indulged some of these players more than we realised.

Or maybe they just don't like Moyes training methods and tactics.

 

[.Rossi]

Or maybe they just don't like Moyes training methods and tactics.

According to Dea Gea, the team are now doing extra sessions on crossing in training....Is that all we actually do?

 

[roseguy64]

I don't like this uproar by the want to replace a player because he popular in the dressing room. What the hell has that got to do with it. It's their performances on the pitch that matter, not if they are a good laugh. I think Moyes is going to have to weed out the troublemakers in that dressing room. I am beginning to think SAF indulged some of these players more than we realised.

How so?

 

[roseguy64]

According to Dea Gea, the team are now doing extra sessions on crossing in training....Is that all we actually do?

Judging by our tactics...

 

[.Rossi]

Judging by our tactics...

"Go Danny!! Keep going Danny!!"

Out of this world motivation from the touchline

 

[Drifter]

According to Dea Gea, the team are now doing extra sessions on crossing in training....Is that all we actually do?

No doubt Moyes is a big believer in crosses.

 

[oleonenumber20]

According to Dea Gea, the team are now doing extra sessions on crossing in training....Is that all we actually do?

seems like we are going back to basics not a bad idea

 

[.Rossi]

No doubt Moyes is a big believer in crosses.

And laps....Loads and loads of laps

 

[Eyepopper]

"Go Danny!! Keep going Danny!!"

Out of this world motivation from the touchline

You expect a manager to give a motivational speech from the touchline do you?

 

[Earthquake]

You expect a manager to give a motivational speech from the touchline do you?

Shakespearian, with added watch tapping.

 

[.Rossi]

You expect a manager to give a motivational speech from the touchline do you?

Nah...Not so much a speech but, a bit more then a Graham Taylor impression. It was a bit weird hearing it the other day is all

EDIT: What Earthquake said....

 

[Eyepopper]

Nah...Not so much a speech but, a bit more then a Graham Taylor impression. It was a bit weird hearing it the other day is all

EDIT: What Earthquake said....

So maybe 'Go on Danny, that's the way' or something similar.... not just 'Go on Danny'.

Bizarre some of the things people choose to criticise over.

 

[.Rossi]

So maybe 'Go on Danny, that's the way' or something similar.... not just 'Go on Danny'.

Bizarre some of the things people choose to criticise over.

Ah now hang on a second, I wasn't exactly criticising the guy, I was just making a remark over how I found it weird.

If you want to see criticism then, that is nothing compared to what some of the posts have been like. Myself included

 

[smallred]

its debateable whether he had them or not.

all this talk about selling cleverly, young, valencia etc etc, the first players out the door could be vidic, rio, evra, giggs along with others such as Rooney. the players being pused out the door by everybody, are the ones who will end up staying.

cant see why everybody is so quick to turn their backs on the players in return for a manager who maybe completely out of his depth.

 

[Kag]

According to Dea Gea, the team are now doing extra sessions on crossing in training....Is that all we actually do?

Hopefully not.

When we discuss this I can't help but get Kevin Mirallas' interview on SSN out of my head. Laughingly saying that Moyes' training was "more Scottish" and that they now "do a lot more work with the ball."

If that's what Mirallas, a relative nobody, thinks then what do our players secretly think?

 

[7even]

Many of you are idealistic and your ideas is good in theory but in reality a manager is lost as soon as a few players starts to question him. When the media starts to write, false or not, it's just a matter of time.

David Moyes took a huge risk replacing the old back room staff, he gambled and as it seems it didn't work out well, not in results and not with some senior players. On top of that he was extremely naive in his press conferences. First bold talks about founds and world class players then he ends up with Fellaini five minutes before transfer deadline. Imagine the players reactions when they witness this after a life time with Fergie.

Whenever he talks he sounds defensive and out of depths. Proven winners like to work with people with winning mentality, that's why they are winners. In comes a red head Scottish former Everton manager and immediately starts to feck up whenever he open his mouth. The results that some players question his authority and knowledge can't be a surprise for us who works with management. I'm baffled regarding Moyes lack of understanding of human psychology and his naive approach, honestly everything who could go wrong has gone tits up. That's a achievement in itself.

I'm in the same age as Moyes so I can relate to some parts of his challenge. I perfectly understand the huge press he's under and I fully understand that replacing a living legend is almost mission impossible. That's why this appointment make no sense because it was written in the sky that he would struggle with this naive and amateurish approach. I feel sorry for him in one way because he's a good honest man with good intentions but managing United is not for nice guys. You need to be ruthless, have plenty of charisma and a smooth mouth like a experienced politician. Moyes is not this man and never will be. Not his fault.

Let's pray he turn this around because we all want the club and and him to succeed but the odds are against him. To put it mildly.


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[.Rossi]

Hopefully not.

When we discuss this I can't help but get Kevin Mirallas' interview on SSN out of my head. Laughingly saying that Moyes' training was "more Scottish" and that they now "do a lot more work with the ball."

If that's what Mirallas, a relative nobody, thinks then what do our players secretly think?

Ha nice

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Hopefully not.

When we discuss this I can't help but get Kevin Mirallas' interview on SSN out of my head. Laughingly saying that Moyes' training was "more Scottish" and that they now "do a lot more work with the ball."

If that's what Mirallas, a relative nobody, thinks then what do our players secretly think?

Not surprising at all.

 

[MJJ]

So maybe 'Go on Danny, that's the way' or something similar.... not just 'Go on Danny'.

Bizarre some of the things people choose to criticise over.

The useless cnut should have said " To go or not to go, that is the question".

 

[Keenst]

Hopefully not.

When we discuss this I can't help but get Kevin Mirallas' interview on SSN out of my head. Laughingly saying that Moyes' training was "more Scottish" and that they now "do a lot more work with the ball."

If that's what Mirallas, a relative nobody, thinks then what do our players secretly think?

I remember that too, didn't sit well with me when I heard it.

 

[Eyepopper]

Hopefully not.

When we discuss this I can't help but get Kevin Mirallas' interview on SSN out of my head. Laughingly saying that Moyes' training was "more Scottish" and that they now "do a lot more work with the ball."

If that's what Mirallas, a relative nobody, thinks then what do our players secretly think?

Hmmmm

Mirallas scored 9 in 33 under Moyes.

So far under Martinez he has 2 in 22.

But as long as he's enjoying training thats the main thing I suppose.

I'd be saying plenty of nice things about Martinez too if I were him.

 

[pocco]

It's unfair to criticise his training methods. We don't know how what effect they're having so it's just pointless.

 

[Kag]

Hmmmm

Mirallas scored 9 in 33 under Moyes.

So far under Martinez he has 2 in 22.

But as long as he's enjoying training thats the main thing I suppose.

I'd be saying plenty of nice things about Martinez too if I were him.

Yeah, he's actually been a bit shit so far this season as far I'm aware. Still, it isn't exactly good to hear. It just inflates the pre-perceived notion many had of Moyes prior to his appointment in regards to his style of play and training methods.

 

[Eyepopper]

Yeah, he's actually been a bit shit so far this season as far I'm aware. Still, it isn't exactly good to hear. It just inflates the pre-perceived notion many had of Moyes prior to his appointment in regards to his style of play and training methods.

Meh.... people see what they want to see, there are a long list of both current and former players and managers to cancel out what Mirellas (who is about a third as productive under a new manager) has to say.

He probably tells Martinez how smashing his blouse is every morning when they arrive at training too, only once he's done sticking pins in his Lukaku doll, obviously.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Hmmmm

Mirallas scored 9 in 33 under Moyes.

So far under Martinez he has 2 in 22.

But as long as he's enjoying training thats the main thing I suppose.

I'd be saying plenty of nice things about Martinez too if I were him.

Maybe he should actually be grateful that Moyes brought him to the PL.

 

[Eyepopper]

Maybe he should actually be grateful that Moyes brought him to the PL.

Thats exactly what I was thinking, a little classless IMO. I think he'll be on his way back out of the PL quick enough too, particularly if he maintains a scoring record of 1 in 11.

Its sucking the new managers arse is all, plays right in to the hands of those looking for something else to criticise Moyes for though.