Has the cult of Rashford become more important than the player?

[roonster09]

Okay - how about in this forum for the past 12 month to help with your search?

Again why filters? I don't think anyone is dumb enough to call him championship player after the season he had in 2019-20, I mean I wouldn't put past few but dont think they would want to look like fools posting that.

Whilst showing @-Supreme- the relevant post could you also find me posts saying Rashford "is not productive."

I'd be surprised if posters were actually saying that.

Good point, he got 22 goals in 68 league games last 2 seasons from open play while being the focal point in the attack. That's nothing special for a left forward who doesn't contribute much in the buildup and loves a back pass as much as any of our defenders.

Btw, Rashford was also blamed for other players not being productive and that's in this thread.

 

[-Supreme-]

Again why filters? I don't think anyone is dumb enough to call him championship player after the season he had in 2019-20

So are you saying people actually recognised his contributions and didn't call Rashford a Championship player, so why spout this nonsense?

Okay, I will give you a benefit of a doubt here, how about in any seasons, that someone in this forum has called Rashford a championship player?

I'd imagine you will easily find plenty of examples given how you have seen these nonsense posted regularly for you to having to post this again in this thread despite not a single poster mentioned it in the past 12 months at least?

 

[roonster09]

So are you saying people actually recognised his contributions and didn't call Rashford a Championship player, so why spout this nonsense?

Okay, I will give you a benefit of a doubt here, how about in any seasons, that someone in this forum has called Rashford a championship player?

I'd imagine you will easily find plenty of examples given how you have seen these nonsense posted regularly for you to having to post this again in this thread despite not a single poster mentioned about this in the past 12 months at least?

Like I said, don't understand the context and them come up with this shit. People said Rashford was above criticism when he was always one of the most criticized player since 2016-17 season. People come up with random shit like "He is home grown player and English, so he is above criticism" when he got so much shit for years.

Anyways since you are on caf for long time, I'm assuming you know how to do a simple search. Type championship and search for that thread alone. You can also see how many posters were mocking that "Championship" nonsense, that should tell you how often it was used.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/marcus-rashford-2019-20-performances.448822/page-47#post-24795677

https://www.redcafe.net/search/465047/?q=championship&t=post&c[thread]=430532&o=relevance

 

[-Supreme-]

Like I said, don't understand the context and them come up with this shit. People said Rashford was above criticism when he was always one of the most criticized player since 2016-17 season. People come up with random shit like "He is home grown player and English, so he is above criticism" when he got so much shit for years.

Anyways since you are on caf for long time, I'm assuming you know how to do a simple search. Type championship and search for that thread alone. You can also see how many posters were mocking that "Championship" nonsense, that should tell you how often it was used.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/marcus-rashford-2019-20-performances.448822/page-47#post-24795677

https://www.redcafe.net/search/465047/?q=championship&t=post&c[thread]=430532&o=relevance

So you have found a newbie that mentioned Rashford a championship player 2 years ago, and posts in player performance thread from years ago

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[roonster09]

So you have found a newbie that mentioned Rashford a championship player 2 years ago, and posts in the match day thread who we all know can't be taken seriously.

Thanks for clearing that up.

I said search in that thread, not read that post.

Type championship and search for that thread alone

 

[-Supreme-]

I said search in that thread, not read that post.

Type championship and search for that thread alone

One thing is clear to me, I see a lot of people excused others of saying Rashford is a Championship player than those actually said he is one.

 

[roonster09]

One thing is clear to me, I see a lot of people excused others of saying Rashford is a Championship player than those actually said he is one.

They were mocked and deserved to be.

If we go with that Welbeck nonsense, it will be even more hilarious.

 

[-Supreme-]

They were mocked and deserved to be.

Yes they were indeed.
However I don't see the point to bring this up (after years gone by) when it's not even relatable to any of the posts in this thread.

 

[roonster09]

Yes they were indeed.
However I don't see the point to bring this up (after years gone by) when it's not even relatable to any of the posts in this thread.

"Rashford is above criticism" "he is homegrown academy player, so he doesn't get criticized". How is that not related.

 

[-Supreme-]

"Rashford is above criticism" "he is homegrown academy player, so he doesn't get criticized". How is that not related.

I'm talking about "Rashford is a Championship player", "he can't get into any of the PL sides"

 

[roonster09]

I'm talking about "Rashford is a Championship player", "he can't get into any of the PL sides"

Those are not criticism?

 

[-Supreme-]

Those are not criticism?

We're going round in circle here, if you think posts back years ago when certain individuals mentioned Rashford is a Championship player is worthwhile to bring this up to this thread and in your opinion is relatable then okay - you can continue spout these nonsense.

No wonder I see the extreme Rashford divide here.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Came on, played central, did nothing.

 

[roonster09]

We're going round in circle here, if you think posts back years ago when certain individuals mentioned Rashford is a Championship player is worthwhile to bring this up to this thread and in your opinion is relatable then okay - you can continue spout these nonsense.

No wonder I see the extreme Rashford divide here.

how is it so hard to understand a simple post.

 

[-Supreme-]

how is it so hard to understand a simple post.

Likewise

 

[roonster09]

Likewise

Nonsense.

Posters said he was above criticism and barely got criticism as he was English and academy player, he was always one of the most criticized player and just in last 2 seasons we had around 20 dedicated threads to criticize him. Right from his debut season he was called championship player, Rashford, Rashbeck but some people have their heads so high up in their arse that they can't see any posts criticizing him and somehow believe he is most protected player.

How is pointing out the criticism he got is not relevant? No one is talking about this thread alone.

 

[Doracle]

We're going round in circle here, if you think posts back years ago when certain individuals mentioned Rashford is a Championship player is worthwhile to bring this up to this thread and in your opinion is relatable then okay - you can continue spout these nonsense.

No wonder I see the extreme Rashford divide here.

Roonster appears to have explained his position very clearly. Would you mind finding me an example on this thread of where a “tiny bit of negativity” has been stated to be agenda driven? The main “pro” Rashford posters seem to have very fairly acknowledged that his game could improve and that he had a relatively poor end to the season. It’s only some of the more extreme views which have been called out.

 

[Idxomer]

Again why filters? I don't think anyone is dumb enough to call him championship player after the season he had in 2019-20, I mean I wouldn't put past few but dont think they would want to look like fools posting that.






Btw, Rashford was also blamed for other players not being productive and that's in this thread.

I don't regard 22 league goals in 2 seasons as special, that's not saying his productivity is bad or anything like that. You then replied with stats about his goals+assists combined and someone else accused me of being a tory whatever the hell that means.

 

[NicolaSacco]

Again, there is a difference between talking about how he could do better in a player performance thread compared to talking about how their is a cult status about him.

A lot of us support him because he seems like a useful young player - that doesn’t make him perfect but nor does it make him have a cult status.

The same crap happened with Martial - Martial FC was created by his haters not by his supporters; it just involved his supporters because his haters created it. I was a part of Martial FC but have given up on him after this season.

Our fans are either capable of giving support to good to great players - whilst some are only capable of support to greats and guaranteed success bringing players.

That is where the cult lies - within the fans. There is a cult hating or doubting on players and their is a cult supporting and believing in their players.

You can tell me which one your in.

Nah, you’ve conflated ‘hating’ and ‘doubting’, and made them mutually exclusive from ‘supporting and believing in’ and it undermines your own point because it’s demonstrably untrue.
Plenty of players come to Utd (and to all other teams), where they are supported but their overall contribution to the team, or potential to improve, is doubted. Rashford is a prime example of a local lad who I’m sure the vast majority of Utd fans would love to see do well, but a significant proportion think he simply won’t. Which doesn’t fit in to your best categorisation of what fans are. You’ve left a false choice at the end of your post, possibly deliberately so, to try to trap people into being something they’re not.

 

[Marwood]

Again why filters? I don't think anyone is dumb enough to call him championship player after the season he had in 2019-20, I mean I wouldn't put past few but dont think they would want to look like fools posting that.






Btw, Rashford was also blamed for other players not being productive and that's in this thread.

I don't mean to nitpick but the poster said his goal return is "nothing special."

That's not the same as saying he "isn't productive"

I think it's important to clear this type of stuff up otherwise it becomes this really absurd circular argument. Where posters are arguing against opinions that don't exist.

I asked for an example of a poster arguing Rashford isn't productive. You can't come up with an example. So maybe let that one go?

Same goes for arguing against opinions that were made by one poster two years ago. At some point you have to move on.

 

[roonster09]

I don't mean to nitpick but the poster said his goal return is "nothing special."

That's not the same as saying he "isn't productive"

I think it's important to clear this type of stuff up otherwise it becomes this really absurd circular argument. Where posters are arguing against opinions that don't exist.

I asked for an example of a poster arguing Rashford isn't productive. You can't come up with an example. So maybe let that one go?

Same goes for arguing against opinions that were made by one poster two years ago. At some point you have to move on.

So you want me to search for posts which says "He isn't productive" word by word?

He is 6th in goal contributions in last 2 seasons (In PL), how is that not special? . People had to leave out his assists and penalty goals just to make it look like ordinary.

And then there are few who played down those stats with nonsensical arguments (and with mental gymnastics) but that's too much to quote anyways.

Does this post count?

I have to say I really don't like him as a player. I think he epitomises this generation of player who relies on individual moments in games rather than being focused on the team. He often tries long distance dipping shots and rarely produces end product, his easy miss in the EL final speaks volumes of the basics he is lacking. He also has a tendency to run into players when dribbling, he has pace but wouldn't say he is a good dribbler. He doesn't make unselfish runs to create space for others, which is fundamental to how Utd have always played, i.e. running into channels, taking defenders away etc... I would take Grealish every day of the week. Fair play to him on his child poverty awareness though.

I agree 100%. Rashford just isn’t that good and people need to realise it. Give me a prime Chicarito over him any day. At least Hernandez made runs and knew were the goal was. Watching Rashford is sometimes painful.

And usual Welbeck comparisons who was one of the most unproductive player to play for us

I think slightly better than Welbeck is a fair description, it just relies on remembering that before he was a meme with exploding knees Danny Welbeck was a good player. I’m pretty sure if you don’t count penalties the two have very similar PL scoring records for us.

 

[stw2022]

If you look at what’s actually been said it’s nowhere near as vitriolic as some are pretending it to be. I suspect that’s why we quickly got hearsay from previous threads when asked for evidence that anyone was saying anything beyond doubting his abilities as a footballer

 

[roonster09]

Oh dear just post randomly now.

 

[stw2022]

Other emoticons are available

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

He’s not the player a lot on here think he is (elite / world class etc) but some of the criticism is way over the top. He’s clearly not Welbeck or a championship player. He’s a good player who can be a great player on his day. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Mods just delete this trash fire of a thread already. It's been two pages of useless stuff .

 

[Marwood]

So you want me to search for posts which says "He isn't productive" word by word?

He is 6th in goal contributions in last 2 seasons (In PL), how is that not special? . People had to leave out his assists and penalty goals just to make it look like ordinary.

And then there are few who played down those stats with nonsensical arguments (and with mental gymnastics) but that's too much to quote anyways.

Does this post count?



And usual Welbeck comparisons who was one of the most unproductive player to play for us

Well kind of yeah because that's what you alleged was said. Or at least get close to it. If I say 11 league goals this season isn't special is that the same as saying Rashford isn't productive?

The other quote is regarding his long range efforts and how productive they are. Again not a comment on his overall game. His long range efforts have become a bit pointless of late wouldn't you agree?

Look I'm a fan of Maguire, think he's harshly judged and so get a bit defensive of him. So I get it.

But I think you're just shouting at the sky here.

 

[United492]

Rashford is a very good player, but I don't see him as elite level. Frustratingly he's one of the fastest players on any football pitch, but continually slows the play down, be that for Utd or England. He's young, he'll work it out, hopefully sooner rather than later, especially in terms of his decision making.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a critic of his - plastic Ronaldo and all that - but I think he just needs to be reined in a little, don't let him near free kicks (although 1 in 50 or so go in). He kind of needs to be mentored a bit better by the coaches and senior players. The bloke is young, all of his external campaigns, coupled with the football side of things are going to burn him out. There's a lot of pressure on the lad, moreso on him than other british players of his age, especially taking into account how he burst onto the scene so rapidly and his community efforts.

I guess what I'm trying to say is he is falling foul of the same fate that every other young english talent has done over the years, think Wilshere for one, who has just faded away football-wise, and I'd like that not to happen to "Rashy".

I'll take my own advice and give the lad some slack.

 

[roonster09]

Well kind of yeah because that's what you alleged was said. Or at least get close to it. If I say 11 league goals this season isn't special is that the same as saying Rashford isn't productive?

The other quote is regarding his long range efforts and how productive they are. Again not a comment on his overall game. His long range efforts have become a bit pointless of late wouldn't you agree?

Look I'm a fan of Maguire, think he's harshly judged and so get a bit defensive of him. So I get it.

But I think you're just shouting at the sky here.

Well I disagree. Playing down his productivity means saying he isn't productive (or productive enough), what else does it mean. How can a player with 6th most goal contributions in last season not productive, or his goal contributions isn't special. What exactly people mean when they say he is Welbeck or slightly better or even worse, one of the most non productive player we had.

I also said people removed his assis stats to make it look worse, which was silly. Played down his stats saying it's nothing special and few even lied about his stats.

Also if you think calling his stats as average is not same as saying he isn't productive, then we have to agree to disagree. Oh yes, his stats was called average.

 

[Bebestation]

The fact is that it was asked by the OP whether the cult of Rashford has become more important than the player.

This was answered instantly by the fans who highlighted that the player scored 20 goals this season. A player who scores 20 goals is important to the team. The 2nd top goal scorer for United is important to the team - even with reduced penalty kicks chances he had than in previous seasons. The fact that he scores against big tough clubs is Important to United.

Inside top 5 for assists in the PL during open play. Important for United.
top 7 assists in Pl overall, inside top 10 for both assists inside and outside the box.

Important for United.

Now does this mean he is perfect and can’t improve things such as his decision making, dribbling and maybe even some of his selfishness? No. He can improve and should look to improve as a young 23 year old with his prime still further than it is closer.

However, that doesn’t change the fact that he is a valuable player for United right now. A player that is important to United and is more important than he is not; arguably with plenty of time on his hand to get even better.

 

[Ali Dia]

Nobody said he wasn’t important


That’s the point, at the minute he’s too important. We need more, from him or somewhere else.

 

[alexthelion]

The entire thread is pathetic really

Why?

Rashford's overall play has, at times, been downright awful. No amount of spouting stats and then calling out posters who don't agree can hide that fact.

 

[Rolaholic]

Why?

Rashford's overall play has, at times, been downright awful. No amount of spouting stats and then calling out posters who don't agree can hide that fact.

I haven't seen anyone deny that he can be inconsistent though, point me out to those who have please if you think otherwise.

Just seen people baselessly accusing him of faking injuries and being more focused on off the pitch stuff than his football and using those charitable efforts off the pitch as a stick to beat him with when he's still been one of the most productive players in Europe for his age.

Just because many don't agree with the hysterics doesn't mean they're part of a 'cult' but of course I shouldn't be shocked given that no one despises United players more than United fans.

It is pathetic the amount of reaches people make to justify shitting on the players they don't like. It'd be different if the conversation were strictly about what's happened on the pitch but it's devolved into bad faith arguments more often than not so yes the thread is a shambles.

 

[alexthelion]

Well when posters say he only plays left wing because he’s a rubbish striker what do you expect?

Are you saying he's not a rubbish striker? A majority of CAF posters would disagree, I suspect, judging from posts that have been made on here.

 

[alexthelion]

While I applaud the effort it's a bit rich if they then go to great lengths to avoid paying tax that could fund the govt feeding hungry kids

How dare you, you Tory loving scum (that's right, isn't it?).

 

[alexthelion]

Like any of that money would go any further than Tory pockets.
How much have they syphoned off in the last 11 years under the guise of austerity? Billions.

Bollocks, but you believe what you want to.

 

[alexthelion]

You’re using up all your posts in here saying the same stuff every single day. You’ll probably eventually get promoted on the back of this thread but you can still take a break, let the odd post you disagree with slip through like most of the rest of us do. We all know your opinion and at the end of the day people don’t have to and enough people clearly don’t share the same opinion as you as to make it a legitimate conversation.

My opinion holds that Rashford is currently not hard working, unpredictable or consistent enough to lead our attack if we want to win a league or a CL. He also doesn’t have a best position which is strange after so many games.I think given his decent numbers and actual below average, timid performances against the poorer teams who sit deep throughout the season is a discussion worth having.. Yes he could still improve and adapt but he could also get worse. What if his workrate decreases even more in the future and Ole remains as blinkered to the possibility of rotating him?

If he’s our best and most influential attacking player then we could be in trouble and back battling for top 4 before we know it. If Cavani hadn’t stepped up we almost certainly would have fallen off if we were depending on Rashford in 2021.That’s the standard the posters you disagree with are holding him to. They want the club to thrive over any particular players stats or off the pitch interests. Just waiting for Roonster or KM to come in and back you up with which in my opinion from experienced posters is worse than someone who has genuine doubts about Rashford in his current role and just want to talk about it in a calm fashion somewhere other than the performance thread.


Yes I agree there definitely have been some weird takes but you guys laughing at posters and calling them tories or pitting them against hungry kids or whatever is just as bad. It makes those posters who started off trying to make a reasonable point get more extreme and defensive and go off target which is what happened to me the day I incorrectly listed his 2021 goal output as 2 instead of 4 and I actually corrected myself straight after. Still good on ya for remembering one post and forgetting the very next one of mine where I corrected myself and apologised for any confusion of the stats. We both know you’re in here the whole time so I know you saw both posts. Very “agenda” of you to focus on one and totally ignore the other

Have a nice afternoon and good luck with promotion.

Well said.

 

[alexthelion]

Thread police

I didn't even bother to post here because of the shit posted by likes of you and that stw guy, the only reason I replied is because you posted about me in your post.

Wood and Bamford have better stats? Getting ready for the mental gymnastics from Ali Dia

Are they shit posts just because you don't like what's said about your hero? If you don't post hger, what's this then?

You do know it's perfectly fine to believe Rashford's play has been somewhat of a letdown, despite the numbers you keep using, trying to promote him as super duper (when he really isn't).

 

[roonster09]

Are they shit posts just because you don't like what's said about your hero? If you don't post hger, what's this then?

You do know it's perfectly fine to believe Rashford's play has been somewhat of a letdown, despite the numbers you keep using, trying to promote him as super duper (when he really isn't).

Nonsense. No one said Rashford had great season or great player who is perfect.

 

[alexthelion]

Again why filters? I don't think anyone is dumb enough to call him championship player after the season he had in 2019-20, I mean I wouldn't put past few but dont think they would want to look like fools posting that.






Btw, Rashford was also blamed for other players not being productive and that's in this thread.

Because they, truthfully, said he's selfish and doesn't pass enough?