Has the cult of Rashford become more important than the player?

[Rood]

Rashford is massively under rated by our fanbase - some of the stick he gets is ridiculous

Due to his poor end of season, people forget how good he was at the start of this season

20+ goals two seasons in a row (for comparison Rooney only managed this 4 times, although TBF he hit 30+ twice) and he's not even taking penalties anymore plus a ton of assists

And he's mostly playing with an injury too - probably hasn't been 100% all season

 

[Tom Van Persie]

We have one of the most toxic fanbases in football.

Without a doubt.

And I don't see how Rashford could be overrated by United fans. All this fanbase does is shit on him.

 

[FattyFooty]

Most players don't peak at 23. He'll be a much much better player when he reaches 26 in terms of pitch awareness, maturity and even finishing. Many outside of United and England absolutely rate him

Not so sure. Rashford is far more experienced than most people at age 23. And it's not only age that matters. It's also playing time.

Rashford is a good player, but if you take the very best players like: Mbappe, Neymar, Kane, Rooney, Messi, Ronaldox2 they all where in a complete different category at the age of 23.

Im not sure what we are expecting from Rashford but i really think he will remain at what he is. A good player when he is fit.

 

[hobbers]

He does get a far easier ride than his talent dictates given all the other factors unrelated to his actual ability.

I do worry he's peaked. Rooney peaked at 24/25, but he was a world class player at that point so even during the decline he was still one of the best around.

If we've already seen Rashford's best then I don't think he'll be starting regularly for any title winning teams, put it that way.

 

[Martialfc]

Why are you comparing a winger to strikers?

Try Ashley Young, valencia, nani, blomqvist.

See I can do that too.

Rashford isn't world class but he has two 20 goal seasons despite coming back from and playing with injuries, and most of that was from wide left.

He is absolutely good enough to be heavily involved in the first 11 of a title winning team. This thread is a massive nonsense really.

Shame he didn't just get the surgery and miss loads of the season, this place would be making topics about how he's world class and we miss him loads.

Why am I comparing wingers to Stirkers? We used to play 442 now we play 443. Rashford plays the same position as Salah but on the left. That’s why I’m comparing “Wingers to Strikers” the game has changed we no longer whip balls in. I for one would love to go back to 442 but it’s not going to happen. Rashford is overhyped like many others in our team there’s a reason we haven’t won the league since 2013. Until we stop accepting mediocre players we will never progress. Sell Rashford and sign Haaland it’s really that simple.

 

[Mickeza]

If he was out getting pissed every night and shagging hookers he’d be able to focus on his game far more. Needs to sort his head out.

 

[Eriku]

Slightly better that Welbeck? Look at all you Rashford bashers. The one guy who said there are morons on this forum is right. Put the weed down my man.

Hey, now! Don’t go blaming the ganja!

That said, this thread is bonkers. I am really starting to detest this place.

 

[KM]

He does get a far easier ride than his talent dictates given all the other factors unrelated to his actual ability.

I do worry he's peaked. Rooney peaked at 24/25, but he was a world class player at that point so even during the decline he was still one of the best around.

If we've already seen Rashford's best then I don't think he'll be starting regularly for any title winning teams, put it that way.

Serious question: But where does he get a far easier ride?

On this place, he's one of the most criticised players.

 

[Guapa]

Love the guy and a real credit to our club.Good footballer but never going to be a great IMO.Needs to work on his game big time,coaches need to take responsibility there.Also he's a right winger/right midfielder all day long.

 

[Idxomer]

His being allowed to take penalties pre-Bruno deluded people last year. He’s a 10 league goal a season player. Which is fine, if you also have a proper goal scorer in the team.

Good point, he got 22 goals in 68 league games last 2 seasons from open play while being the focal point in the attack. That's nothing special for a left forward who doesn't contribute much in the buildup and loves a back pass as much as any of our defenders.

 

[hobbers]

Serious question: But where does he get a far easier ride?

On this place, he's one of the most criticised players.

Pundits and journos mainly. United fans are actually probably more realistic of his talent than those in the media.

 

[KM]

Good point, he got 22 goals in 68 league games last 2 seasons from open play while being the focal point in the attack. That's nothing special for a left forward who doesn't contribute much in the buildup and loves a back pass as much as any of our defenders.

He’s got the second highest assists of any of our players this season. 15 as compared to Bruno's 17. Not bad for a player who doesn’t contribute much in the buildup

 

[KM]

Pundits and journos mainly. United fans are actually probably more realistic of his talent than those in the media.

By realistic, if you mean continuously wanking off over other teams players and constantly underrating one of our then sure. Some genius in this thread said Maddison is better than him whilst some other genius has compared Welbeck to him

Also I'm not sure what's the relevance of posting "he gets an easier ride" in a thread about criticising him but hey-ho this place is really something these days.

 

[Joeace2020]

He has an incredible ceiling of ability, but his decision-making is really struggling to reach the same level. Decision-making turns incredible talent into incredible output, and he's at that age where that transformation is more and more expected of him. I don't think him being a top notch human being trying to change the injustices of our world will influence any footballing decisions that the club make regarding him.

Also we ask him to play a ridiculous amount of football enduring a lot during the season, so that too affects everything that's expected of him.

The American Owners love a great image and Marcus is doing it all for them. He is proving valuable to their plans and that will impact what decisions the club makes about him. You can count on that.

 

[Chabon]

Slightly better that Welbeck? Look at all you Rashford bashers. The one guy who said there are morons on this forum is right. Put the weed down my man.

I think slightly better than Welbeck is a fair description, it just relies on remembering that before he was a meme with exploding knees Danny Welbeck was a good player. I’m pretty sure if you don’t count penalties the two have very similar PL scoring records for us.

Good point, he got 22 goals in 68 league games last 2 seasons from open play while being the focal point in the attack. That's nothing special for a left forward who doesn't contribute much in the buildup and loves a back pass as much as any of our defenders.

22 goals in 60 odd starts for a wide forward is fine. He’s fine, that’s the point. He’s Nani, not Ronaldo.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I’m pretty sure if you don’t count penalties the two have very similar PL scoring records for us.

As wingers/wide forwards?

Not a chance.

 

[JPRouve]

There is a point that I believe is important to keep in mind. Whether a player gets an easy ride or not depends on how likeable he is. By all account Rashford is an upstanding young man, so it doesn't matter if he is as good as Rooney on the field or not, people will have more fondness, more patience for him than almost any other player. And I'm sure that some will argue that the only thing that matter is United and what happens on the field but Rashford being a model for younger players and also some of his elders is a great thing for United.

Also as others have said, he is actually good, not great but good which again in combination with his character makes him an important figure at the club. I just wish he could rest and repair his body properly.

 

[hobbers]

Some genius in this thread said Maddison is better than him whilst some other genius has compared Welbeck to him

So?

We could also compare him with the likes of Grealish and Sancho, and he'd come up far short. He also wouldn't be a starter for City or Liverpool or Chelsea.

 

[Idxomer]

So?

We could also compare him with the likes of Grealish and Sancho, and he'd come up far short. He also wouldn't be a starter for City or Liverpool or Chelsea.

I think he would start for Chelsea at least and maybe Liverpool depending on Mane's form.

The thing is he wouldn't be allowed to play in the same manner he does for United.

 

[Andy_Cole]

This worries me and I’ve highlighted it a lot on the forum and mates. It’s no different to JLingz, or even brand Beckham. Obviously it’s fantastic what he’s doing. But a football point of view surely it’s taking his focus away.

 

[hobbers]

I think he would start for Chelsea at least and maybe Liverpool depending on Mane's form.

The thing is he wouldn't be allowed to play in the same manner he does for United.

Don't see Klopp or Tuchel putting up with Rashford's newfound lack of work rate.

Chelsea seem to have a good thing going with Havertz, Mount and Pulisic/Werner. Rashford would really struggle breaking in there.

 

[Smores]

This worries me and I’ve highlighted it a lot on the forum and mates. It’s no different to JLingz, or even brand Beckham. Obviously it’s fantastic what he’s doing. But a football point of view surely it’s taking his focus away.

That depends on your expectations. I don't think Rashford has the drive of Ronaldo to be a machine and try and be the best. That's 99% of players though so i don't think he can really be criticised for his activities.

I think we expect too much of our own home grown players. His output is decent but he's not a world class player.

 

[Bebestation]

We have one of the most toxic fanbases in football.

Exactly.

I never really care about what people think about me when I say that a lot of our rivals have a better ability to support their club especially in periods when the club is down or mediocre.

This is why I believe Liverpool have more CL wins than us. They have the ability to win things with medium assembled team such as Benitez CL 2005 because of how that club, players and fans are able to go through thick and thin for each other.

Our club is ready to talk down the manager or players as soon as they feel as the success and money is out of their eyes - talking down support to certain players so that players eventually feel isolated at our club. I’ve given up on Martial as a United player - but even 3 years ago there were fans calling anyone supporting a player from this club a Martial FC.

They think these words and atmospheres are not felt in this world and they didn’t have any cause in Martials failure.

The same shit is happening to Rashford now. People want to chuck him under the bus so they can get a better LW that has the ability to win a PL or some shit.

Really our fans are rubbish.

 

[Zen86]

He’s a very good player in that he’s capable of those magnificent moments, he‘s very much a match winner. That said, he’s paradoxically not very dependable. He often brings little to the team outside of those special moments, meaning he’s often either one of our best or one of our worst performers. He’s rarely in between.

 

[Chabon]

As wingers/wide forwards?

Not a chance.

Excluding penalties, Rashford has scored 0.358 goals per 90 minutes in the premier league, whereas Welbeck managed 0.355 goals per 90. For us, that is, it’s slipped to 0.33 in his post-United/post-cartilage days.

I dunno about a positional breakdown, but I’d guess Rashford had scored the majority of his goals from wide positions whereas Welbeck basically never scored when played out wide (admittedly the two had very different roles).

 

[Bebestation]

Don't see Klopp or Tuchel putting up with Rashford's newfound lack of work rate.

Chelsea seem to have a good thing going with Havertz, Mount and Pulisic/Werner. Rashford would really struggle breaking in there.

absolute bullshit.

Rashford would compete with Mane and would be rested if injured to make sure he has the ability to work hard.

again, Ole’s lack of tactics or a style has no link to Rashfords lack of work rate - you want to see him gegenpreasing by himself whilst our manager has no style in cohesive football at all.

man then you speek the bullshit of Rashford not being useful to take over or compete with players like Hudson odoi, Tammy Abraham, Werner when he doesn’t even score that many goals, be the less creative more goal scoring option instead of pulisic etc.

Absolute bullshit stinks.

Rashford has the ability to take over sterling as a PL winner for city.

Rashford can compete with mane as an 23 year old.

He can compete and be 2nd option to son at Spurs.

can start for Arsenal.

can compete for a role as a LW for Chelsea. Werner has been a good player with poor record and number.

Better than Barnes from Leicester

 

[Cassidy]

Lots of bullshit in this thread. Rashford is quality.

Maybe the club should have looked after his fitness properly by having adequate back ups

 

[RepardReece]

There's a lot of overrating and also underrating on this thread. He's decent player, he isn't rubbish, but he isn't world class either.

I don't think he'll improve much from where he's at currently either. We'll probably see a thread in 5-10years time saying "What Marcus Rashford could've been" or "What happened to Rashford".

The truth is he's just not got the best footballing brain, some of his decisions on the pitch is incredibly stupid. If he put as much energy into improving his game as he does with what he does outside of football, he could really be a great player, but sadly I don't see him improving much from here as he doesn't have that drive the likes of Ronaldo had.

He's become a really lazy player on the pitch too, and in this day in age in football, that's a really bad trait to have.

That being said, he can put in a really good shift, and even on really poor games, he can still provide a goal contribution.

 

[Withnail]

If we want to win the league Rashford isn’t good enough. Rooney, RVP, Ruud, Saha, Hernandez, Tevez give me and of them over Rashford. Rashford is basically a slightly better Danny Welbeck. We need a Harry Kane to go to the next level Rashford can not take us their alone he just isn’t good enough.

Slightly better than Wellbeck?

Rashford already has more goals by the age of 23 than Wellbeck has gotten in his entire career. Whether we need a Harry Kane or not is irrelevant as Rashford isn't a CF.

He absolutely is good enough for a PL winning side from his best position off the left and will only continue to improve, given his age and performances to date.

The premise of this thread is quite daft.

 

[hobbers]

absolute bullshit.

Rashford would compete with Mane and would be rested if injured to make sure he has the ability to work hard.

again, Ole’s lack of tactics or a style has no link to Rashfords lack of work rate - you want to see him gegenpreasing by himself whilst our manager has no style in cohesive football at all.

man then you speek the bullshit of Rashford not being useful to take over or compete with players like Hudson odoi, Tammy Abraham, Werner when he doesn’t even score that many goals, be the less creative more goal scoring option instead of pulisic etc.

Absolute bullshit stinks.

Rashford has the ability to take over sterling as a PL winner for city.

Rashford can compete with mane as an 23 year old.

He can compete and be 2nd option to son at Spurs.

can start for Arsenal.

can compete for a role as a LW for Chelsea. Werner has been a good player with poor record and number.

Better than Barnes from Leicester

So basically in your own words he'd be nothing more than a backup to most of our supposed rivals, and Spurs, which is exactly what I said.

Hudson odoi, Abraham and Werner are not starters for Chelsea so not sure what relevance you think they have.

 

[roonster09]

Good point, he got 22 goals in 68 league games last 2 seasons from open play while being the focal point in the attack. That's nothing special for a left forward who doesn't contribute much in the buildup and loves a back pass as much as any of our defenders.

He’s got the second highest assists of any of our players this season. 15 as compared to Bruno's 17. Not bad for a player who doesn’t contribute much in the buildup

22 goals in 60 odd starts for a wide forward is fine. He’s fine, that’s the point. He’s Nani, not Ronaldo.

Last 2 seasons in PL, from open play he has 38 goals + assists in PL.

Only 6 players has more goals and assists in last 2 seasons in PL, Kane, KdB, Salah, Son, Mane, Vardy. None of them are close to Rashford when it comes to age.

Kane - 51 goals + Assists
KdB - 47
Salah - 47
Son - 47
Mane - 43
Rashford - 38

 

[Ixion]

Good point, he got 22 goals in 68 league games last 2 seasons from open play while being the focal point in the attack. That's nothing special for a left forward who doesn't contribute much in the buildup and loves a back pass as much as any of our defenders..

What a load of shit this is. Twisting stats and phrasing till it suits your point. Don't like how his stats look so only counting open play, ignoring all the assists he has, describing him as being the focal point when he's played out wide dozens of times. Jog on.

Some of you Tories in disguise need to piss off.

 

[Rado_N]

He’s been playing through injuries for ages and most importantly he’s twenty fecking three you lunatics.

 

[Bebestation]

So basically in your own words he'd be nothing more than a backup to most of our supposed rivals, and Spurs, which is exactly what I said.

Hudson odoi, Abraham and Werner are not starters for Chelsea so not sure what relevance you think they have.

so Werner is not a starter and Rashford is irrelevant

he would start for the title winners as Rashford is a better performer than Sterling when Sterling has a easy atmosphere to play around.

so it really means you chat shit.

Sterling, Mahrez. Rashford fits in that team as tight as a condom.

mane is literally the more experienced version of Rashford. If Liverpool didn’t already have Mane I doubt they would say no to Rashford mane has not even had the best season but still Mane is better due to his experience as a player closer to his 30’s than his 20’s. Same for Son at Spurs.

chelsea spent a god load on Werner who was scoring like crazy in the German league but isn’t doing it in the PL. yep put Rashford in an envelope and he would have never been an interest to Chelsea.

your partner must really love you because your bullshit stinks

 

[eire-red]

At times this season he has looked very lacklustre. I wonder if he has been just managing himself through the season on the back of some injuries.

His output is incredible for a wide player, and we've seen enough performances to know that if he manages to pull all the parts of his game together, then he'll be a brilliant player for us.

Only the truly elite are 23 and already world class. Haaland, Mbappe, CR, Messi etc. These guys are part of a small group that have been doing it from a young age.

Lewandowski, RVP, Salah, KDB, I could go on and on. All world class in their own right, and none of them the finished article at 23.

Let's have a bit of patience, instead of talking about arbitrary ceilings and potential. Development is not linear. Who had even heard of Bruno Fernandes at 23?

 

[HTG]

He’s fine and you guys should be happy to have him.

 

[OL29]

I don’t know why some people choose to ignore that he’s been playing injured for long stretches of this season. Even with that, he’s put up numbers as good as any wide player in the league. He’s not perfect but he’s still probably our second most important attacking player. It’s disappointing to see so many turn on him, but not surprising.

 

[KM]

So basically in your own words he'd be nothing more than a backup to most of our supposed rivals, and Spurs, which is exactly what I said.

Hudson odoi, Abraham and Werner are not starters for Chelsea so not sure what relevance you think they have.

Werner isn't a starter for Chelsea? Good job, highlights the footballing knowledge which I was arguing against.

 

[hubbuh]

Which peers are you talking about?

Now randomly Beckham is brought in. Did you rate Rashford as better player than Scholes, Beckham, Lewandowski and many other great players just because he played at higher level when he was 18?

Did anyone say Rashford is one of the greatest player? It's like people love to argue imaginary points just to have a go at player.

Few of the ManUtd fans wank themselves to death when players like Son are discussed, when you read Spurs fan opinion on him, its same like any other attacking wingers. Inconsistent and decision making problem.

Few see him as good player who has very good end product and can get better, they are ok with Rashford.

Then there are few who comes and moan about "Is he better than Ronaldo, Rooney? No way. Is he better than Beckham at same age? No. Can he be the lynchpin in the team that will dominate PL and CL? No way" and all that nonsense, they just moan about him no matter what.

Also it's hilarious people come up with "Can he be the lynchpin in the team that will win CL? No" as everyone and their dogs rated players like Mendy, Rudiger, Kovacic, Jorginho, Werner, Mount as players who will be winning CLs just a year ago when they looked so poor under Lampard, well everyone except Mendy and Mount. It's as if winning PL and CL depends on one player.

Great post. Well said.

 

[Handré1990]

The cult of Rashford. Okay then