Dunno who he plays ahead of for England and I hope after this window we will say same at us in August
Has the cult of Rashford become more important than the player?
- Thread starter Nikelesh Reddy
- Start date
He's a good player, if he played a more normal game then people would give him a lot more leeway. He's taken on a lot of responsibility both on and off the pitch in the last few years, and that obviously takes a mental toll.
That said, his woes are not purely down to off the pitch stress. I don't think we've found his best position yet, and when we do, his decision-making will be much more explicable and ultimately devastating.
That said, his woes are not purely down to off the pitch stress. I don't think we've found his best position yet, and when we do, his decision-making will be much more explicable and ultimately devastating.
There is definitely a great player in there, I wish he'd do the simple things right. There is this unnecessary need to do the spectacular every time he gets the ball. if he can keep it simple and make better decisions he can go to the next level I think.
If we go with non penalty goals.
| Rank | Player | Age | Club | Goals | Assists | Total | Penalty goals | Non Penalty goals + Assists |
| 1 | Erling Haaland | 20 | Borussia Dortmund | 41 | 12 | 53 | 3 | 50 |
| 2 | Robert Lewandowski | 32 | Bayern Munich | 48 | 8 | 56 | 10 | 46 |
| 3 | Lionel Messi | 33 | FC Barcelona | 38 | 14 | 52 | 7 | 45 |
| 4 | Kylian Mbappé | 22 | Paris Saint-Germain | 42 | 11 | 53 | 9 | 44 |
| 5 | Harry Kane | 27 | Tottenham Hotspur | 33 | 17 | 50 | 6 | 44 |
| 6 | Karim Benzema | 33 | Real Madrid | 30 | 9 | 39 | 0 | 39 |
| 7 | Heung-min Son | 28 | Tottenham Hotspur | 22 | 17 | 39 | 1 | 38 |
| 8 | Thomas Müller | 31 | Bayern Munich | 15 | 24 | 39 | 3 | 36 |
| 9 | Luis Muriel | 30 | Atalanta BC | 26 | 11 | 37 | 2 | 35 |
| 10 | Marcus Rashford | 23 | Manchester United | 21 | 15 | 36 | 2 | 34 |
| 11 | Romelu Lukaku | 28 | Inter Milan | 30 | 10 | 40 | 7 | 33 |
| 12 | Jadon Sancho | 21 | Borussia Dortmund | 16 | 20 | 36 | 3 | 33 |
| 13 | Bruno Fernandes | 26 | Manchester United | 28 | 17 | 45 | 13 | 32 |
| 14 | André Silva | 25 | Eintracht Frankfurt | 29 | 10 | 39 | 7 | 32 |
| 15 | Wout Weghorst | 28 | VfL Wolfsburg | 25 | 9 | 34 | 2 | 32 |
| 16 | Duván Zapata | 30 | Atalanta BC | 19 | 14 | 33 | 1 | 32 |
| 17 | Cristiano Ronaldo | 36 | Juventus FC | 36 | 4 | 40 | 9 | 31 |
| 18 | Antoine Griezmann | 30 | FC Barcelona | 20 | 12 | 32 | 1 | 31 |
| 19 | Álvaro Morata | 28 | Juventus FC | 20 | 12 | 32 | 1 | 31 |
| 20 | Mohamed Salah | 28 | Liverpool FC | 31 | 6 | 37 | 7 | 30 |
| 21 | Gerard Moreno | 29 | Villarreal CF | 30 | 11 | 41 | 12 | 29 |
| 22 | Johannes Eggestein | 23 | SV Werder Bremen | 20 | 9 | 29 | 0 | 29 |
| 23 | Lautaro Martínez | 23 | Inter Milan | 19 | 11 | 30 | 2 | 28 |
| 24 | Memphis Depay | 27 | Olympique Lyon | 22 | 12 | 34 | 8 | 26 |
| 25 | Ciro Immobile | 31 | SS Lazio | 25 | 8 | 33 | 7 | 26 |
| 26 | Lars Stindl | 32 | Borussia Mönchengladbach | 17 | 15 | 32 | 7 | 25 |
| 27 | Andrej Kramaric | 29 | TSG 1899 Hoffenheim | 25 | 6 | 31 | 7 | 24 |
| 28 | Lorenzo Insigne | 29 | SSC Napoli | 19 | 11 | 30 | 7 | 23 |
| 29 | Wissam Ben Yedder | 30 | AS Monaco | 22 | 9 | 31 | 11 | 20 |
His good is good, his average is poor , his poor is awful. Also he hasn’t adapted his game to take into account either his supposed injury or an alternative role he’s been asked to play such as when he’s played on the right.
He seems to be trying to be the same player but with positional/fitness limitations and whatever the stats say, watching him I don’t think it’s working.
Apologies for assuming your gender
Keep them coming, you can't even see a sarcastic post ffs. It was so obvious too given the context.
Moaning about how this place is toxic ignoring the posts from the poster who is on 'your side of the argument'. Like I said, fake moral outrage.
Agree, but injury and squad management is on the manager. He is not forcing ole to play him and even if he does Ole should know better. It's also our sqad depth, 60% fit Rashford is better than the options we have on the bench. Unless ole is bold enough to play youth there.
But that said, him not adapting or making proper decisions is on him. I dont know if his off field work is impacting his on field performances.
Yeah I suppose you’re right, I mean he’s only scored 10 more career goals than him. But I guess by the time he‘s 30 (like Danny) we could revisit this post?
I'm just wondering why so many seem to have such disdain for our players.
Because they are ambitious and have standards.
One of the weirdest aspects of this argument is the people saying they don’t expect a 23 year old player to continue to improve, purely because he’s played a lot of games. Perhaps it’s a lack of patience and a need for instant gratification
There’s plenty to blame the manager for I agree. Okay he’s a grown man and needs to speak out if he’s injured but he’s been hung out to dry by a manager who can’t afford to take him out of the firing line because all he has tactically is to hope for individual brilliant performances, and Rashford for all my issues with him can pull those off occasionally.
This is one other issue I have btw. He's been fortunate to be at United from such a young age. Just like Martial, being at the most popular club in the world and being young and talented enough to receive hype can lead to people seriously overrating a player. Lonzo Ball in the NBA is a similar comparison in that respect.
Whilst other young stars had to scrap, claw and have decisively class seasons at lower clubs, Rashford and Martial had the advantage of being at United when we had little to no competition in their positions, this meant that especially from 2016 to 2018, anything they did that was remotely good was met with massive overreactions, whilst their peers had to do unthinkable things to even garner a third of the reaction. This is even in comparison to their peers at bigger clubs, people forget at times how big we are as a club and the amount of pull we have. Pogba's initial post-United hype as borne more off of what the media felt United had missed out on than his general play. We turned Di Maria into the third highest shirt selling player in 2015. It's the reason why I like the idea of loaning out our players, due to the level of hype around players, we need to see how they perform consistently at other clubs.
I see where you're coming from. And yes, generally on the CAF this is a problem, but this case is a little bit different. We all love Rashford and for me, I don't think his off the field stuff affects his game....I simply don't think his game, injury or no injury, is good enough to be a key player for us. I think he's at a similar standard to Sterling, yet is treated like he's superior. Our aim is to be as good or better than City, and to do that, we need players who are more in line with the quality of Bruno and Cavani. I think Sancho/Grealish fall in that category, i think Rashford is just below that. That's not disdain, its just being realistic. Disdain is what I have for Martial.
Then why are there more threads concerning the players performances and not the managers capabilities ? The biggest hinderance to this team being able to achieve a higher ambition starts and stops with the manager.
There are 11 threads on the first page alone full of people doubting his management from various angles
That would warrant criticism, but no the active disdain often seen for some of our players.
Some seem to have this idea that there's only two development trajectories: Early breakthrough or late bloomer.
I don't mind criticism (not that it really matters what I mind or don't mind) but the over-the-top criticism and unkind characterisations are what does me in.
And, I mean, we have posters on this forum telling us that Bruno is actually shit too. Go back a year and Luke Shaw was considered shit and needed to be upgraded on. People swing wildly from extreme to extreme, with very little nuance to be found.
That's a misconception. First all players have scrapped football is probably the most competitive sport at youth level and in order to get into an academy you need to give everything, only the best in their age class manage to go to get an apprentice contract then you have scrap among the best and show that you are good enough to play for the senior team. Secondly It's easier to reach professional football in lower clubs than it is at United because the first team is better even what you consider little to no competition is significantly better than anything a club like Zaragoza has, it's also a lot more difficult to match the expectations of a club like United even when we are talking about simply competing for a CL spot and lower clubs are more willing to adapt for a very talented young player and put him in the best situation than a big club would.
And since you quoted a post regarding Villa and Griezmann, people shouldn't miss the fact that Villa is one of the best striker that we will ever see and Griezmann is one of the best french attacking player ever. We are talking about a very high bar that will not be passed that often, it's not something that should be expected.
Come on,lets not take things so literally for gods sake!By “he’s our number 10”,I mean that he’s supposed to be our talisman and he’s supposed to one of the faces of United just like Rooney was in the past.He gets the same kind of attention and he has a similar profile off the field...He’s supposed to be as important to the future of the club as Rooney was in that period,and hence the comparison.
Plus he’s an attacking player who should be compared to all our top attacking players of the past...
I was being sarcastic, it's an often used argument that makes little sense.
If he’s not at the “Rooney,Van persie,RVN level(forget about Ronaldo),then he doesn’t deserve to start week in week out for United.We have to find players of the Rooney,RVN caliber if we want to get back to the top...
Top 100 imo
It's nice to want things. I'd like to fill every position with someone as good as the players from 99/08 but unfortunately you can't just do that. If we insisted anyone not of that level shouldn't be starting we'd only be able to field 2 players.
Only read the first two pages of this thread because it's the same nonsense over and over again, but I'll pop in again to say I really enjoy STW saying Sancho is just a "different postcode" to Rashford when they've both just had very comparable seasons.
Of course, his reasoning will be that Rashford looks "incompetent on the ball", whatever in the blue hell that means, because you can't back such a garbage opinion up by pointing to goals, assists, or any actual metrics.
Of course, his reasoning will be that Rashford looks "incompetent on the ball", whatever in the blue hell that means, because you can't back such a garbage opinion up by pointing to goals, assists, or any actual metrics.
Even then we had the likes of Butt, Silvestre, Wes Brown and Phil Neville as important members of the team. People are living in a different dimension when they want a world beater in every positions, in reality all teams have players that are good on the field but replaceable, now these players generally also are high character individuals, upstanding people that provide a lot in the locker room and I wouldn't be surprised if Rashford is or become that kind of figure at United.
Honestly I think we're tearing him down. Could end up like Owen. There seems to be some sort of shift towards playing the same players most games. We need to trust our squad more.
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I've said it a gazillion times but the pressure we put on him (and to some extent Martial) over the past 2 seasons has been enormous; not just the expectation for him to lead the line and perform well, but also to be available every single game virtually. And he's been playing with injuries for the past year and a half.
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I've said it a gazillion times but the pressure we put on him (and to some extent Martial) over the past 2 seasons has been enormous; not just the expectation for him to lead the line and perform well, but also to be available every single game virtually. And he's been playing with injuries for the past year and a half.
If we dont know his best position in the team after 6 years then we may as well give in. looks like hes been playing with an injury for some time.
Was never a born goal scorer and if only he could improve his finishing he'd be a good player. The thing is he misses far too many gilt edged chances for my liking but seen as we got him for nowt I'd keep him as a squad member.
Was never a born goal scorer and if only he could improve his finishing he'd be a good player. The thing is he misses far too many gilt edged chances for my liking but seen as we got him for nowt I'd keep him as a squad member.
I'm amazed on how much certain posters in this thread invest to talk Rashford down.
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They betray their feelings when they refer to the people who applaud his charitable endeavors as some sort of fanatical 'cult' rather than normal people appreciating a young man using his platform to try and do objective good for a cause near and dear to his families heart...
Along with using that to denigrate him as a player when he's already had a better start to his career than the vast majority of players of the same age in spite of injuries
I'm not surprised at all. This fanbase is toxic.
@stw2022, you are sinking without a trace. You have been given MORE THAN ENOUGH proof that Rashford is not only doing quite well, he is actually better than what most of his fans thought he is.
You are either comparing him to players you are not watching on a regular basis (and thus believe they perform week-in, week-out) or to a computer game version of footballer's performance.
Suck it up, accept the facts and move on.
I am skeptical of anyone bringing up his charity work when talking about him given the shit that gets said and the abuse he gets on twitter. How dare he buy his Mum a house when he doesn't play 10/10 every week, how dare he try to help hungry children when he didn't score in the last game, how dare he video call Barrack Obama when the season has ended. A lot of people feign concern about his form because of ulterior motives they can hide through football and I'm sure there will be people in this very thread trying to disguise why they dislike Rashford and what he does.
Which is true but can't always happen. Cole and Yorke weren't Rooney, RVP or RVN. However, In order to make up for potential consistencies they had in their game ( which for Yorke didn't really show till 2001) we had Sheringham and Ole who were of similar qualities that could rotate and make up that offensive difference.
He’s never looked the same since that back injury. I still think he can be one of the worlds best but for whatever reason it’s just not happening for him at the moment and it makes things worse when he tries too hard to make something happen. He puts his head down and dribbles into 5 players to try and create a spark but ends up losing the ball. Hard to say what his ceiling is but he will hit some form, gain confidence and the game will start coming more naturally to him.
It’s typical that people want to bring in a players personal life when he’s not in form. When becks was out of form Victoria was distracting him and ruining his career blah blah blah. When he was in form no one talked about it.
Same with Rashford. I don’t think you can argue that he’s been underwhelming and everyone wants to speculate why. But he’s got loads of ability and a lot of people will be eating crow when he does hit a rich vein of form.
It’s typical that people want to bring in a players personal life when he’s not in form. When becks was out of form Victoria was distracting him and ruining his career blah blah blah. When he was in form no one talked about it.
Same with Rashford. I don’t think you can argue that he’s been underwhelming and everyone wants to speculate why. But he’s got loads of ability and a lot of people will be eating crow when he does hit a rich vein of form.
I think people just need to use their eyes and watch Rasford rather than completely looking at stats. Im amazed he has got 20 goals again this season because I dont think he has played very well for long spells either through injury or any other factors we care to debate. Hes not "Danny Welbeck" though because thats two years he has scored twenty goals and Im not sure Danny has got to 20 in his career yet.
The issue I have with him is that he is a bit like Martial in that he feels like a streaky player. he will score a hat trick tomorrow and two next week then go 5 games playing poorly but the stat will show 5 goes in 7 games which is quite good.....
I also think there is no denying that his in game intelligence isnt developing much. He was running down the same blind alleys in the Europa Final that he was doing all his career and I wonder what happens to make him better at that?
I think that while there will be people who are overly harsh on our players there is the opposite too. He is 24 this year, its not unreasonable to look at a player who burst on the scene 300 games ago and be looking for or hoping for more by now but he's a local lad through the youth team so we are desperate for him to do well. Nothing wrong with that but perhaps not entirely objective. I do feel that if a new signing was putting in these performances he would be judged more harshly and I suspect that 21 year old Jason Sancho will be if he signs.
The issue I have with him is that he is a bit like Martial in that he feels like a streaky player. he will score a hat trick tomorrow and two next week then go 5 games playing poorly but the stat will show 5 goes in 7 games which is quite good.....
I also think there is no denying that his in game intelligence isnt developing much. He was running down the same blind alleys in the Europa Final that he was doing all his career and I wonder what happens to make him better at that?
I think that while there will be people who are overly harsh on our players there is the opposite too. He is 24 this year, its not unreasonable to look at a player who burst on the scene 300 games ago and be looking for or hoping for more by now but he's a local lad through the youth team so we are desperate for him to do well. Nothing wrong with that but perhaps not entirely objective. I do feel that if a new signing was putting in these performances he would be judged more harshly and I suspect that 21 year old Jason Sancho will be if he signs.
He isn't as streaky as you think. Most number of games he went without scoring or assisting this season was 3 games, it happened twice. Both times he made 2 starts and came on as a sub in the other game. So his biggest dry patch this season was 2 games where he started.
Also he has played 57 games - 46 starts and 11 times he came on as sub. He has either scored or assisted in 29 games.
In PL - His longest dry spell was 4 games (3 starts and 1 sub). After that he had dry spell of 2 games and that happened twice. For any player the 2 games is not even considered as dry spell. So in most weeks Rashford contributed with either a goal or assist.
Like many have already said, there is lot of room for improvement but when it comes to goal contributions (from open play) he is our best player. He has scored or assisted consistently.
Maybe its an age thing but I absolutely HATE goal stats being padded out with assists which can be so meaningless. Im talking about goals here. He has 20 goals this season and it feels kind of streaky although I accept that might not be the case in reality.
I think Rashfords off-the-pitch activities effect his football - but at the same time, you can't really criticize a player/person when what he is doing is more important than football.