Have United had a better recent history than Arsenal?

The question is absurd.

If we thought this further, it would mean that a team that has no real chance to win the premier league or champions league next season, should intentionally try to miss out on champions league football and try to end up 7th to be able to play in the conference League the next season as that would more likely lead to a trophy next year and that's what it's all about.
 
The question is absurd.

If we thought this further, it would mean that a team that has no real chance to win the premier league or champions league next season, should intentionally try to miss out on champions league football and try to end up 7th to be able to play in the conference League the next season as that would more likely lead to a trophy next year and that's what it's all about.
Although I agree with the overall sentiment of the question being silly. Arsenal and United both played in the fa cup and league cup over the past 5 seasons. If memory serves me correct Arsenal have not even reached a semi final

Or in other words you don’t need to drop into the Europa League to win a trophy and in the past 5 years (where Arsenal did actually play in the Europa League and again never even reached a semi) Arsenal have just not been very good in the cup competitions

This years UCL run was prob their best cup performance since they won the fa cup
 
Although I agree with the overall sentiment of the question being silly. Arsenal and United both played in the fa cup and league cup over the past 5 seasons. If memory serves me correct Arsenal have not even reached a semi final

Or in other words you don’t need to drop into the Europa League to win a trophy and in the past 5 years (where Arsenal did actually play in the Europa League and again never even reached a semi) Arsenal have just not been very good in the cup competitions

This years UCL run was prob their best cup performance since they won the fa cup
Fair enough, didn't look at it that way.
 
Zoom in - no
Zoom out - yes

Suppose Man United win the EL, think 10 years from now when you just look at the roll of honour for each club.

They will have blanks the last 3 seasons.
We'll have trophies against each.
 
Ten years from now, most people will remember this as the season United finished 17th more than anything else. It's the first thing that will come to mind before they ask Siri or Alexa for details.
 
I look at this place and not a single fan on here has been enjoying themselves while watching United play in about 10 years. I look at Arsenal forums and the like and they seem to enjoy watching their team play.
So I would say no. Arsenal clearly have been better.
 
Arsenal are a better side but they’ve won f*ck all and the purpose of competition for the big teams is to win trophies.
 
Although I agree with the overall sentiment of the question being silly. Arsenal and United both played in the fa cup and league cup over the past 5 seasons. If memory serves me correct Arsenal have not even reached a semi final

Or in other words you don’t need to drop into the Europa League to win a trophy and in the past 5 years (where Arsenal did actually play in the Europa League and again never even reached a semi) Arsenal have just not been very good in the cup competitions

This years UCL run was prob their best cup performance since they won the fa cup
Domestic cups are not really a priority for the clubs competing for the highest honours though. If we were competing for CL and PL I couldn't care less what happens in the FA cup and League cup and wouldn't mind playing weakened sides there.
 
Domestic cups are not really a priority for the clubs competing for the highest honours though. If we were competing for CL and PL I couldn't care less what happens in the FA cup and League cup and wouldn't mind playing weakened sides there.

You say that. Now please check the last 10 FA cup winners better check who played in the final of those matches. I think you will find that representation outside of the traditional top 4 is limited in both winners and even final appearances. The league and domestic cup double in done often not just in the PL but in the Bundesliga and la liga.

Maybe you as a fan wouldn’t care but its seems looking at the results the clubs care
 
I look at this place and not a single fan on here has been enjoying themselves while watching United play in about 10 years. I look at Arsenal forums and the like and they seem to enjoy watching their team play.
So I would say no. Arsenal clearly have been better.
Yep. Who really cares what might look better on paper in 10 years time? It's obvious which set of fans have had more fun going to games and watching their team in the past few seasons.
 
I look at this place and not a single fan on here has been enjoying themselves while watching United play in about 10 years. I look at Arsenal forums and the like and they seem to enjoy watching their team play.
So I would say no. Arsenal clearly have been better.
This.

Also when we were consistently challenging for the league and making deep runs in the CL (around 2006-13), the domestic cups were mostly seen as an afterthought around these parts.
 
This is just a coping mechanism. Going by this logic, Arsenal, Wolves, Fulham fans wouldn't mind switching places since none of then have won the league cup or FA cup in the last 4 years and Arsenal fans would kill to be where West Ham is since they won that UEFA Nations League Conference seminar cup two years ago
 
This is just a coping mechanism. Going by this logic, Arsenal, Wolves, Fulham fans wouldn't mind switching places since none of then have won the league cup or FA cup in the last 4 years and Arsenal fans would kill to be where West Ham is since they won that UEFA Nations League Conference seminar cup two years ago
Errr why wouldn’t wolves or Fulham fans mind switching with United?
 
You say that. Now please check the last 10 FA cup winners better check who played in the final of those matches. I think you will find that representation outside of the traditional top 4 is limited in both winners and even final appearances. The league and domestic cup double in done often not just in the PL but in the Bundesliga and la liga.

Maybe you as a fan wouldn’t care but its seems looking at the results the clubs care
The traditional top 4 or whatever are just that much stronger than the rest. Under SAF we used to play weakened sides in domestic cups often. When you factor in luck of the draw and high variance in cup competitions, I don't think it's all that suprising they only won it once in 5 seasons.
 
Ten years from now, most people will remember this as the season United finished 17th more than anything else. It's the first thing that will come to mind before they ask Siri or Alexa for details.
If we win the Europa League next week I think we will remember it, we will always remember how awful we were but got something at the end. We have been brutal post Ferguson but the game is about trophies. Granted, we aren't competing for the highest of them and the football isn't acceptable currently. If Arsenal win the league in the next two two years, you can look back at there progress and enjoy the journey to get there as a fan. If they win nothing again for three years and regress, then history will look at what trophies were won, it's that simple. Good football and being entertained is essential but winning trophies is what it's about. Not remember when we got 80 points with good football, but messed up when it mattered.

Do you remember finishing a far off second under Jose, or winning the league cup and Europa in Stockholm in another season? I know which one I remember better.
 
This sounds like an extension of the debate we had last season about whether or not 2nd in league and no trophy was better than 8th and the FA cup.

Trophies are remembered. Nobody remembers a second place outside of the club who finished there.

What are supporters going to remember more, the dire football under say LVG and Ten Hag or the domestic cups they won? I think the former will always overshadow our domestic cup wins, even for rival fans. Supporters are more fond of our football in the empty stadiums of the covid lockdown without cups.
 
If we win the Europa League next week I think we will remember it, we will always remember how awful we were but got something at the end. We have been brutal post Ferguson but the game is about trophies. Granted, we aren't competing for the highest of them and the football isn't acceptable currently. If Arsenal win the league in the next two two years, you can look back at there progress and enjoy the journey to get there as a fan. If they win nothing again for three years and regress, then history will look at what trophies were won, it's that simple. Good football and being entertained is essential but winning trophies is what it's about. Not remember when we got 80 points with good football, but messed up when it mattered.

Do you remember finishing a far off second under Jose, or winning the league cup and Europa in Stockholm in another season? I know which one I remember better.

To each his own, i guess. For me, the purpose of this club is (or should be) to play good football at the highest level. There can only be a maximum of two teams that can win the trophies that really matter (PL & CL) each season, so the best thing you can do is have a team that can compete with the best and give joy to the fans by playing attractive and dominant football.

Arsenal fans will remember these seasons because they feel (although their team may not go to all the way) that their team has become relevant again and has entered the room where the big boys play. Think of it this way: They believe that their league form, this season, has been disappointing. Allegedly, 10-15 points below that is where INEOS have set the bar for us next year. What they have done over the last 5-6 seasons - reset their club by doing away with the big and entitled names and assembling a squad that can meet the demands of the modern game - is where we hope and pray to be in a few years. That's why you hear people discussing the DoF, the new regime or wanting a new analytics team and trying hard to find positives in the performances. The goal is not to win the FA Cup.

You could argue that, especially this season, Arteta has steered away from playing nice football in favour of a sheer pragmatism that can only be justified by lifting silverware. I can agree with that and i would personally desire more in terms of performances. But that's it. What i get from our season is that we've never been further away from where we ought to be. Last season, as in 2016, i mostly remember feeling burnt out by watching LvG and ETH's sides. Sure, the cups are nice but, ultimately, they'll not amount to much, if we don't meet our real objectives (assuming we have any). I want to see a competent team playing an attractive brand of dominant football at the highest kevel. I can't even name the last 10 EL and FA Cup winners without googling it.
 
The question is absurd.

If we thought this further, it would mean that a team that has no real chance to win the premier league or champions league next season, should intentionally try to miss out on champions league football and try to end up 7th to be able to play in the conference League the next season as that would more likely lead to a trophy next year and that's what it's all about.
Not really - it's an interesting question.

The point with Arsenal is they have to convert this period into some kind of tangible success, the reason this question exists is because they have not done so, all whilst United - despite a horrendous recent couple of season are on course for 3 domestic trophies in 3 season (we hope) or at least 2 in 3. So, for a fan, the only thing you get with Arsenal in this period is basically to boast they are almost the best, since Arteta's first full season I think I'm right in saying there's been no final appearances and only one deep CL run to the semis this year. There are mitigating factors, Michael Oliver effectively stopped them winning the title last year, they had bad injuries this year in attack, but no one will remember in 10 years time. Even if you take away the European fixtures, if you think a CL run is better than an EL win, ETH got us into 1/2 league cup finals and 2/2 FA cup finals.
 
To each his own, i guess. For me, the purpose of this club is (or should be) to play good football at the highest level. There can only be a maximum of two teams that can win the trophies that really matter (PL & CL) each season, so the best thing you can do is have a team that can compete with the best and give joy to the fans by playing attractive and dominant football.

Arsenal fans will remember these seasons because they feel (although their team may not go to all the way) that their team has become relevant again and has entered the room where the big boys play. Think of it this way: They believe that their league form, this season, has been disappointing. Allegedly, 10-15 points below that is where INEOS have set the bar for us next year. What they have done over the last 5-6 seasons - reset their club by doing away with the big and entitled names and assembling a squad that can meet the demands of the modern game - is where we hope and pray to be in a few years. That's why you hear people discussing the DoF, the new regime or wanting a new analytics team and trying hard to find positives in the performances. The goal is not to win the FA Cup.

You could argue that, especially this season, Arteta has steered away from playing nice football in favour of a sheer pragmatism that can only be justified by lifting silverware. I can agree with that and i would personally desire more in terms of performances. But that's it. What i get from our season is that we've never been further away from where we ought to be. Last season, as in 2016, i mostly remember feeling burnt out by watching LvG and ETH's sides. Sure, the cups are nice but, ultimately, they'll not amount to much, if we don't meet our real objectives (assuming we have any). I want to see a competent team playing an attractive brand of dominant football at the highest kevel. I can't even name the last 10 EL and FA Cup winners without googling it.
This is a top notch post. Perfectly encapsulates how I feel about this too.
 
The traditional top 4 or whatever are just that much stronger than the rest. Under SAF we used to play weakened sides in domestic cups often. When you factor in luck of the draw and high variance in cup competitions, I don't think it's all that suprising they only won it once in 5 seasons.

My posts didnt speak about winning it. Its spoke about their overall poor performance in it. Not even making a semi final. And they did not play a weakened team in the competition either. Fact is they have been poor in all cup competitions prior to their ucl semi run this season.
 
As a one off season, I'd quite easily take a 2nd place finish with good performances and optimism for the following season, over a load crap sprinkled with a random FA Cup win,

Finishing 2nd year after year without winning anything and the entertainment value diminishing though, would very quickly become pointless. I mean, we've done that with both Ole and Jose and no one liked it at all.

Also, most of our banter years have actually also been Arsenal's banter years. It's only the last 3 seasons they've been a decent side, and again, its not really amounted to anything more than what we've had a sprinkling of over the same period anyway (i.e. finishing second with no trophy and then half the fanbase wanting the manager sacked).

Of the two fanbases we really aren't the one that have missed out. Albeit I doubt Arsenal fans will be writhing in their sleep because we had a few extra second rate cup wins...well actually some of them probably will but only because they're weird.
 
It's cognitive dissonance to say Arsenal fans shouldn't be happier with their team over the last 10 years than United fans. Our only major achievement that stands above them is the Europa league. We've all been miserable over our league performances these past couple of years whereas they've at least had something to be exciting about week in week out. I'd rather be in their place moving forward at this point

Really happy we don't have Arteta as a manger though :D