I will absolutely love it when they sign a centre forward and it still doesnt work out for them
Have United had a better recent history than Arsenal?
- Thread starter LawCharltonBest
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
Indeed. If quality of team is the barometer
If instead it’s success, then we have won a trophy in each of the last 2 seasons. With a shot at 3 in 3
I personally prefer the success. And long for the quality to return
Don't you place any value on each game in isolation? Going to the stadium every couple of weeks, cheering on the team, and coming away with a win is a great feeling, and Arsenal have had that feeling about 20 times more than us over the past few seasons. They've had the excitement of challenging for the title, the anticipation of going to games knowing that they are competing neck and neck with one of the greatest PL teams of all time. They've got to watch some amazing football (perhaps not so much this season) in that time and have felt like they are building towards something.
We have basiclaly had the opposite of all that - turgid football, failing to win more often than not and no sense of purpose as a club. Yes, we have won a couple of trophies that those challenging for the league and champions league see as an afterthought.
I wonder if there is a difference of opinion here between match going fans who pay their money and give up half their weekend to see (mostly) league games, and armchair supporters.
Arsenal are a bloke who gets ready for the night out, they are wearing expensive clothes, take care to comb their hair to perfection, a dap of liner under the eyes for dramatic effect. They look good. They have access to an exclusive members club with celebrities and glitz and glamour at every turn. They end up in a room full of the most beautiful women but, just as conversation seems to be going well with one, someone slightly sexier comes and takes them away. They leave the club alone but marvel at how nice it all looked and the experience they had, surely next time they will get lucky?
United are down the Stag's Head every Friday, low 'v' white tee shirt with rosary beads, half a brylcreem in the lid and a quick twenty push ups to flare the triceps. It's 3 for 1 cocktails and we're necking off left, right and centre with Bertie Bassett's.
United are down the Stag's Head every Friday, low 'v' white tee shirt with rosary beads, half a brylcreem in the lid and a quick twenty push ups to flare the triceps. It's 3 for 1 cocktails and we're necking off left, right and centre with Bertie Bassett's.
Of course. Which is why I stated I long for the quality to return.
I agree, it’s painful looking at the league fixtures and wondering where our next decent half of football might come from.
But you still can’t deny trophies. Stripped back, it’s what we play for. Otherwise what’s the point
Winning a trophy is bigger than finishing second. Knowing how to win games is important.
Liverpool winning the CL gave them belief to go on and win the Premier League in my opinion.
Arsenal I dont think have that in them
Yes, of course we have?
How dare you?
How dare you?
I wouldn't. They had what maybe 2 years where they played decent football? We've had lots of excitement in that time, I'd hate to be good but win nothing like them.
Yes, unquestionably.
Momentum itself is not success. Until they translate that into trophies then they are still firmly a banter club.
Momentum itself is not success. Until they translate that into trophies then they are still firmly a banter club.
Finishing high enough in the league though comes with being in the CL, which is a much harder trophy to win.
It's easy to say in hindsight you'd take the trophy, but before this season started you would have probably preferred to take part in the CL this season and be playing at top 5-10 clubs in the world level, competing for the best honours like (I'm guessing) you'd want for next season. And then next season if we finish second and don't win any trophies I don't think you'd wish we played in the EL instead, which is effectively in my mind what you're saying here but for this season instead.
I guess my thinking is that you "need to be in it to win it" regarding the CL and/or title races. We're not even in it this season. Arsenal were.
United are about to finish bottom half of the league
A trophy always beats not winning one.
A second/third/fourth finish is just a way of saying you won nothing
Is the correct answer.
A chance to win a trophy or to be perennial second place finishers, you're right, the answer is obvious, it's to win the trophy.
But, really, what's the point of improving "as Arsenal have done" if you win nothing?
So Arsenal would impress you more if they were nowhere near even qualifying for the CL but ended up in EL final instead?
I'm sure if we were second and they were 15th in relegation form you'd be saying how much of first losers we are compared to them becase they reached a final of a second rate competition.
It's funny to me how we have all these talks about progress every year and yet apparently it counts for nothing if we don't actually win it each time.
What is the point of improving, really? Who is more likely to win the league or CL next season, us or them?
Past 10 years....yes
Past 5 years......no
Past 5 years......no
I'd prefer to be in Arsenal's position.
Better squad and manager.
Better squad and manager.
Because bad teams rarely win the big prizes. We gotta improve to have a decent chance to win them. Just because one team hasn't done it yet doesn't mean they won't, or we won't if we improve. A team finishing second in the league and reaching the CL semis is at a level where they're more likely to win the big stuff next season.
It's similar to Leed's season. They won the Championship, that's one more trophy than Arsenal got this season, but I'm sure Leeds would sooner be a team good enough to finish second in the PL and go far in the CL. We might win the EL, but I'd rather be a team that can go far in the CL. Even if it means taking a bunch of attempts to win the thing. Bouncing between the leagues picking up the Championship trophy now and again or staying in the EL and winning that a bunch doesn't feel as good as competiting toe to toe up there with the best.
History might be kinder to those who win trophies, and it's easy in hindsight to say we've had a "better history", but that's just because we weren't good enough to be in the highest tier of European competition. I don't know how anyone can argue that only trophies make for better seasons, surely it depends on what the trophy is. I don't think Arsenal would be biting your hand off to win the EL next season (if they somehow could) and finishing where we do in the league because of the massive drop in performance levels that would take and that they would have no chance of winning anything better. If we have their season next season, we wouldn't be sad we haven't won a trophy. We'd be glad to be in the mix for the biggest ones. That says to me that a season like Arsenal's matters more in the grand scheme of things.
As a one off. Then our season, assuming we win the EL, is better. Of course as a pattern Arsenal are in a better place.
I hate these discussions about who had better seasons recently, it's obvious that we had better seasons simply because we lifted trophies and Arsenal didn't, but for me, I'm really desperate for us to be way better in the league, 15th or 16th is absolutely unacceptable even with a Europa League title and UCL football, you can't make shit smell better no matter what and finishing closer to relegation fodder is shit no matter what trophy you pick up.
I get that Arsenal look great on paper lately—playing slick football, pushing City in the league, and reaching a UCL semi. But let's not confuse style with substance. In the last five years, Manchester United have actually won things: an FA Cup, a Carabao Cup, and now we're in a European final. That’s three opportunities turned into real, tangible success.
Meanwhile, Arsenal have had one of the most stable setups in the league. Arteta has had time, trust, and serious financial backing. And what’s he delivered? No trophies. No parade. Just near-misses.
People mock United’s chaos—and fair enough, we’ve had plenty—but even through instability, we’ve still brought home silverware. That says something. Arsenal, with their structure and long-term project, have nothing to show for it on the honours list.
At the end of the day, football is about winning. Not just looking good doing it. We’ve won. They haven’t.
Meanwhile, Arsenal have had one of the most stable setups in the league. Arteta has had time, trust, and serious financial backing. And what’s he delivered? No trophies. No parade. Just near-misses.
People mock United’s chaos—and fair enough, we’ve had plenty—but even through instability, we’ve still brought home silverware. That says something. Arsenal, with their structure and long-term project, have nothing to show for it on the honours list.
At the end of the day, football is about winning. Not just looking good doing it. We’ve won. They haven’t.
Arsenal has had a better recent history. They haven't really won anything, but we haven't either. For clubs of our statures(especially United), Premier League and UCL titles are all that really matter. Arsenal has played far better football than us the last 3 years, and in two of those seasons was close to winning the PL(losing to City both times).
I’m not sure you understood anything I said
Nah. Don't agree with this at all. Just because we were great over 10 years ago and are a 'big club', that shouldn't mean that only winning the Premier League and Champions League matter (I also see comments with a similar vibe about the quality of players we think we should be bringing in quite often).
We all want to get there again, but it's an utterly entitled view to be saying that only those trophies matter, and talking like we should only be bringing in world class players. We are so far off that level just now that these things aren't realistic and there's nothing wrong with enjoying the successes and good players we have just now at the level we are at, it all matters.
I think deep down everyone knows this but we're making these "only trophies matter" arguments just to make us feel better about ourselves. I mean at the end of the day only 2 or 3 at most teams can hope to win the league each season. Following the "second is just a first loser" logic, vast majority of the league are "losers" with their fans showing up for 38 games for no reason. Obviously there is much more to it than that.
I’d say that their average season is better as in week to week but we’ve had more “magic” moments that will live long in the memory.
Amad v Liverpool in the cup. The Lyon madness this year. Lingards run at Wembley. Garnacho and Mainoo putting city down. These are memories that are exaggerated because we won the trophy and gave me some of the best memories ever.
So week on week Arsenal. In a decade I’ll remember it more fondly though.
Amad v Liverpool in the cup. The Lyon madness this year. Lingards run at Wembley. Garnacho and Mainoo putting city down. These are memories that are exaggerated because we won the trophy and gave me some of the best memories ever.
So week on week Arsenal. In a decade I’ll remember it more fondly though.
Exactly. Which is why what matters the most is if you enjoy watching your team.
What is this? Some kind of condescending classification of the club supporters? Give your head a wobble, there are supporters of other clubs that never witness any success nor win matches and they still keep going to the stadium.
Bit weird seeing the majority of people arguing that winning trophies is more important than league position and performances when I was arguing in the ETH thread that when all is said and done he won two trophies for us and that has to mean he cannot be rated below Solskjaer as a United manager considering Solskjaer won the square root of sod all - because it was ETH bashing everyone disagreed in that context and claimed that winning those trophies meant nothing.
It’s Arsenal’s mentality since Wenger had to keep getting top 4 for CL qualification.
They don’t expect anything more as long as they get top 4.
I wonder do Arsenal know where the key for the trophy cabinet is?
We do.
We do.
To give you the chance. Only 1 team can win the league. Finally getting there eventually is the point.
Liverpool could have given up on improving before they won the title again
As for the question in this thread, put it this way this is the only place on the internet that the question would be asked. By a United fan on a United forum. Any neutral or Arsenal fan would think you are insane to ask suggest the cups we've won have the same or more value than 2nd in the league.
Neither.
We'ree utter shite right now, and no matter how much we improve, we won't improve enough in one summer to go from this to challanging.
Arsenal would lose a one horse race. They are losers. They play like losers, and they will always lose when it actually matters.
We knocked them out the FA cup, PSG did them in ther CL.
In both cases, all they had in response was playing for corners and long throws. You don't win things playing like that in the modern game. They lost both games before they set foot on the pitch, because their manager is a coward.
I resent Arsenal and their delusional fans. I enjoy when they lose, I laugh when they whine. We have won trophies, they have won nothing.
With that being said, we sit currently on 39 points after 35 games and could possibly finish the season as 17th. Recent seasons were very bad as well.
As far as recent history goes, we have the trophies, but we also have the embarrassment. They edge it, as much as I hate admitting that.
With that being said, we sit currently on 39 points after 35 games and could possibly finish the season as 17th. Recent seasons were very bad as well.
As far as recent history goes, we have the trophies, but we also have the embarrassment. They edge it, as much as I hate admitting that.
This is just silly.
We won the FA Cup, in 2 years never mind 10, we will still remember winning that cup by giving city a beating.
I'll take a bet you'd have to look up who you were playing when arsenal secured 2nd last year. Because no one, not even you, really cares.
