Have we significantly improved since we got rid of LVG?

[Di Maria's angel]

Take in to account the things he was missing, someone to take the ball out of midfield, a right winger which would have been DiMarias position, had to put Martial on the left due to the poor form of Depay and the emergence of Rashford. Yet we controlled games, seemed to understand our jobs and were only a few quality additions away from the team LVG wanted.
When people come out with stats like that it to me is so short sighted. If LVG had his same team with the additions we have Pogba, Lukaku, Sanchez, Matic, Lindelof he’d at least have this team playing football in a way that suits its personnel other than what we see now.

I also don’t agree with this notion being peddled by some that we were good first half of the season. We really weren’t even that Swansea game people like to laud we played poorly. Some people clearly just blinded by results.

The man also spent £200m+ and we regressed under him. As with our current manager, the bold part is simply excuses.

As for the control in a football game, well I don't believe in that shit. Teams sat off us and allowed us to have the ball knowing that we had no idea to create a goal scoring opportunity.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

The man also spent £200m+ and we regressed under him. As with our current manager, the bold part is simply excuses.

As for the control in a football game, well I don't believe in that shit. Teams sat off us and allowed us to have the ball knowing that we had no idea to create a goal scoring opportunity.

Yeah he had to replace pretty much half of a finished team and build a base that he could build upon.
So are you saying that even if he had Sanchez, Pogba, Lukaku and so on that team would be no different and again just pass it about between themselves for the sake of it.

Really I think people need to look at the situation as it was, he was actually in a proper rebuild, Jose is/ was not.

The a,punt of excuses that get peddled out for Jose are really grinding, do I think Jose should and could be doing better then yes. Did I see more of a future under LVG yes because it actually looked like he was working towards something. The performances now for me are worse and have shown a regression in our football understanding.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Yeah he had to replace pretty much half of a finished team and build a base that he could build upon.
So are you saying that even if he had Sanchez, Pogba, Lukaku and so on that team would be no different and again just pass it about between themselves for the sake of it.

Really I think people need to look at the situation as it was, he was actually in a proper rebuild, Jose is/ was not.

The a,punt of excuses that get peddled out for Jose are really grinding, do I think Jose should and could be doing better then yes. Did I see more of a future under LVG yes because it actually looked like he was working towards something. The performances now for me are worse and have shown a regression in our football understanding.

I was extremely happy with 14/15 and it really looked like LvG was going to take us places. But what followed the next year meant that Jose's job was no simpler than his predecessor. I think may you've forgotten just how bad we were in 15/16 - have a look at this:

Moyes 13/14 - we finished on 64 points with 64 goals scored.
LvG 15/16 - we finished on 66 points with 49 goals scored.

You honestly think that we were going somewhere when you compare it to the most disastrous year in the clubs last 30 years?

I think your dislike for Jose has really clouded your judgement as the only place we were going under LvG was into the ground.

As for your second line, I don't think any of those players would have joined to play under van Gaal. A few of our players left the club with their careers being stagnated by a manager obsessed with keeping the ball and doing nothing with it.

I don't even disagree with the last line. I appreciate the work Jose has done, however, I, too, feel that we can play better and have more work to do to start challenging for the big trophies. The difference between this season and those gone by is that we actually do look like we're heading in that direction. If, however, Jose doesn't sort out some of the underlying issues affecting the club then, I'm afraid, we'll see the back of him sooner rather than later.

 

[El Jefe]

The problem with LVG is that he seemed intent on trying to be successful with players who clearly weren't good enough. Hypothetically speaking, f he had a DOF who forced him to use the players Jose currently plays, I think we'd be a much better side but LVG was batshit crazy so that'll never happen. We may not be better off in points or position but our football, big game performances and future outlook would be a lot brighter.

I wanted LVG sacked at least 6 months before he left but he understood the importance of youth and have no doubt Martial and Rashford would be just as good as Sane and Sterling at this point under him.

 

[Roboc7]

We have improved, not enough unfortunately but we have ended in same position with Mourinho as we had under LVG. The tactics are just too negative and outdated and both managers basically need/needed an individual to bail them out in attack.

Hazard did it for Mourinho at Chelsea and Robben for LVG with Holland, we don’t and haven’t had that kind of player and there just isn’t any kind there of attacking structure, especially in co parison to other teams.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

I was extremely happy with 14/15 and it really looked like LvG was going to take us places. But what followed the next year meant that Jose's job was no simpler than his predecessor. I think may you've forgotten just how bad we were in 15/16 - have a look at this:

Moyes 13/14 - we finished on 64 points with 64 goals scored.
LvG 15/16 - we finished on 66 points with 49 goals scored.

You honestly think that we were going somewhere when you compare it to the most disastrous year in the clubs last 30 years?

I think your dislike for Jose has really clouded your judgement as the only place we were going under LvG was into the ground.

As for your second line, I don't think any of those players would have joined to play under van Gaal. A few of our players left the club with their careers being stagnated by a manager obsessed with keeping the ball and doing nothing with it.

I don't even disagree with the last line. I appreciate the work Jose has done, however, I, too, feel that we can play better and have more work to do to start challenging for the big trophies. The difference between this season and those gone by is that we actually do look like we're heading in that direction. If, however, Jose doesn't sort out some of the underlying issues affecting the club then, I'm afraid, we'll see the back of him sooner rather than later.

I think this is where the way we see football is going to seperate us as for me there was more direction under LVG than Jose. I personally think LVGs 2nd year was better than his first. I look at more than just points, goals and statistics and the things we actually do on the pitch and on the whole LVG’s United was a far more educated footballing team than what we see now. It was by no means perfect but it was building towards something. Now it looks like just trying anything and throwing the sync at it to see if something sticks.

Like I said for me LVG’s team was far more educated on what it’s supposed to be doing on the field and bringing others in to it and working spaces and so on than what we have now. For me in that aspect we’ve regressed heavily.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

I think this is where the way we see football is going to seperate us as for me there was more direction under LVG than Jose. I personally think LVGs 2nd year was better than his first. I look at more than just points, goals and statistics and the things we actually do on the pitch and on the whole LVG’s United was a far more educated footballing team than what we see now. It was by no means perfect but it was building towards something. Now it looks like just trying anything and throwing the sync at it to see if something sticks.

Like I said for me LVG’s team was far more educated on what it’s supposed to be doing on the field and bringing others in to it and working spaces and so on than what we have now. For me in that aspect we’ve regressed heavily.

This boggles my mind. Sorry, I just can't agree with anything you say.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

This boggles my mind. Sorry, I just can't agree with anything you say.

There is no problem with that at all. I mean I see why you have your conclusions on LVG and your opinion on Jose but for me you are looking at it through a very narrow lense hence why I don’t agree with your opinion on what Jose is doing or your opinion that we’ve actually played well for the majority of this season. Again it just comes down to how people understand football or interpret it, we are all different.

 

[Puddser]

This boggles my mind. Sorry, I just can't agree with anything you say.

There is no problem with that at all. I mean I see why you have your conclusions on LVG and your opinion on Jose but for me you are looking at it through a very narrow lense hence why I don’t agree with your opinion on what Jose is doing or your opinion that we’ve actually played well for the majority of this season. Again it just comes down to how people understand football or interpret it, we are all different.

I posted the below on the Home record / form thread:

Happen to agree with Andrerson here, I too believe LVG had more of a plan in place than Jose has currently. Problem with many is that they can't differentiate between a manager doing his job vs doing the job they'd prefer them to do. We might not of liked what LVG was doing but he had his team, tactics and I felt towards the end of the season with Rashford up front scoring regularly we looked a lot more complete team.

I still argue to this day, LVG's biggest mistake was his blind faith in Rooney and his captain always playing, it cost him his job I feel. I mean imagine had he played Rashford up front earlier around Dec / Jan and been scoring more and playing more exciting football.

Jose has performed much worse than LVG so far I feel considering the mess LVG inherited from Moyes, don't think Jose inherited as big a problem as LVG. Considering the players he's managed to sign also too his squad is undeniably better than LVG's too.


"Just for the record, LVG vs Jose Mourinho Home Premier League Records:

LVG
Season 1
P19 W14 D2 L3 GF41 GA15 GD26 PTS44

Season 2
P19 W12 D5 L2 GF27 GA9 GD18 PTS41

Total

P38 W26 D7 L5 GF68 GA24 GD44 PTS85

Jose Mourinho
Season 1
P19 W8 D10 L1 GF26 GA12 GD14 PTS34

Current Season
P13 W10 D2 L1 GF29 GA5 GD24 PTS32

Total
P32 W18 D12 L2 GF55 GA17 GD38 PTS66

So even if Jose was to manage to perform a miracle and win his remaining 6 home games this season (he won't), he'd still be a point worse off than LVG.

I also judge it on PL only as the PL is our bread and butter and its our most important competition, I always want to finish as high up in the league as possible personally.

So Jose apologists, wrap your head around those numbers and try justify them."

 

[Traub]

The league was a lot weaker when LVG was in charge. I mean Leicester won the league ffs. If you want further proof, look at English club performances in Europe.

 

[Marcky411]

NO, not at all, seeing the amount spent and the players brought in.

 

[Marcky411]

I posted the below on the Home record / form thread:

Happen to agree with Andrerson here, I too believe LVG had more of a plan in place than Jose has currently. Problem with many is that they can't differentiate between a manager doing his job vs doing the job they'd prefer them to do. We might not of liked what LVG was doing but he had his team, tactics and I felt towards the end of the season with Rashford up front scoring regularly we looked a lot more complete team.

I still argue to this day, LVG's biggest mistake was his blind faith in Rooney and his captain always playing, it cost him his job I feel. I mean imagine had he played Rashford up front earlier around Dec / Jan and been scoring more and playing more exciting football.

Jose has performed much worse than LVG so far I feel considering the mess LVG inherited from Moyes, don't think Jose inherited as big a problem as LVG. Considering the players he's managed to sign also too his squad is undeniably better than LVG's too.


"Just for the record, LVG vs Jose Mourinho Home Premier League Records:

LVG
Season 1
P19 W14 D2 L3 GF41 GA15 GD26 PTS44

Season 2
P19 W12 D5 L2 GF27 GA9 GD18 PTS41

Total

P38 W26 D7 L5 GF68 GA24 GD44 PTS85

Jose Mourinho
Season 1
P19 W8 D10 L1 GF26 GA12 GD14 PTS34

Current Season
P13 W10 D2 L1 GF29 GA5 GD24 PTS32

Total
P32 W18 D12 L2 GF55 GA17 GD38 PTS66

So even if Jose was to manage to perform a miracle and win his remaining 6 home games this season (he won't), he'd still be a point worse off than LVG.

I also judge it on PL only as the PL is our bread and butter and its our most important competition, I always want to finish as high up in the league as possible personally.

So Jose apologists, wrap your head around those numbers and try justify them."

 

[bosnian_red]

We just have better players but in terms of coaching, having a system and players knowing what they're doing? Nah.

 

[pseudo_canadian]

Starting to second-guess Mourinho more and more each following week...

 

[K2K]

This is soul destroying stuff

 

[Kag]

Van Gaal without the possession.

 

[pseudo_canadian]

Lovely stuff

 

[shaky]

I posted the below on the Home record / form thread:

Happen to agree with Andrerson here, I too believe LVG had more of a plan in place than Jose has currently. Problem with many is that they can't differentiate between a manager doing his job vs doing the job they'd prefer them to do. We might not of liked what LVG was doing but he had his team, tactics and I felt towards the end of the season with Rashford up front scoring regularly we looked a lot more complete team.

I still argue to this day, LVG's biggest mistake was his blind faith in Rooney and his captain always playing, it cost him his job I feel. I mean imagine had he played Rashford up front earlier around Dec / Jan and been scoring more and playing more exciting football.

Jose has performed much worse than LVG so far I feel considering the mess LVG inherited from Moyes, don't think Jose inherited as big a problem as LVG. Considering the players he's managed to sign also too his squad is undeniably better than LVG's too.


"Just for the record, LVG vs Jose Mourinho Home Premier League Records:

LVG
Season 1
P19 W14 D2 L3 GF41 GA15 GD26 PTS44

Season 2
P19 W12 D5 L2 GF27 GA9 GD18 PTS41

Total

P38 W26 D7 L5 GF68 GA24 GD44 PTS85

Jose Mourinho
Season 1
P19 W8 D10 L1 GF26 GA12 GD14 PTS34

Current Season
P13 W10 D2 L1 GF29 GA5 GD24 PTS32

Total
P32 W18 D12 L2 GF55 GA17 GD38 PTS66

So even if Jose was to manage to perform a miracle and win his remaining 6 home games this season (he won't), he'd still be a point worse off than LVG.

I also judge it on PL only as the PL is our bread and butter and its our most important competition, I always want to finish as high up in the league as possible personally.

So Jose apologists, wrap your head around those numbers and try justify them."

Why do the numbers need "justified"? You're using stats from Jose's first season, which wasn't as good as his current season, and comparing them with stats from LVG's best season, which he got fair credit for at the time anyway. If it wasn't for a surprise run of home draws over a year ago, the stats would probably look very similar.

 

[Acquire Me]

Starting to second-guess Mourinho more and more each following week...

I am afraid myself. Our tactics looks really poor.

 

[Lentwood]

Personnel-wise, yes

Tactically, no

Jose’s ability to build squads combined with LvGs tactical discipline might not have us top of the PL right now but we would be a damn sight better than we are!

 

[golden_blunder]

There was more wrong with lvgs team than simply playing Rooney. There was a mentality issue, players were afraid to take chances. Football is about risk taking.

 

[Cheesy]

There was more wrong with lvgs team than simply playing Rooney. There was a mentality issue, players were afraid to take chances. Football is about risk taking.

Aye, for as much as I've been very critical of our play lately some people seem to forget how atrocious our LVG-era football got.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Close this shit thread. When we slumped under van Gaal, we never found a way out. We were under the cosh going into this game and fought our way to a win.

 

[roonster09]

In terms of Wins and goals scored, we have improved on last 2 seasons.

 

[Robbie Boy]

I posted the below on the Home record / form thread:

Happen to agree with Andrerson here, I too believe LVG had more of a plan in place than Jose has currently. Problem with many is that they can't differentiate between a manager doing his job vs doing the job they'd prefer them to do. We might not of liked what LVG was doing but he had his team, tactics and I felt towards the end of the season with Rashford up front scoring regularly we looked a lot more complete team.

I still argue to this day, LVG's biggest mistake was his blind faith in Rooney and his captain always playing, it cost him his job I feel. I mean imagine had he played Rashford up front earlier around Dec / Jan and been scoring more and playing more exciting football.

Jose has performed much worse than LVG so far I feel considering the mess LVG inherited from Moyes, don't think Jose inherited as big a problem as LVG. Considering the players he's managed to sign also too his squad is undeniably better than LVG's too.


"Just for the record, LVG vs Jose Mourinho Home Premier League Records:

LVG
Season 1
P19 W14 D2 L3 GF41 GA15 GD26 PTS44

Season 2
P19 W12 D5 L2 GF27 GA9 GD18 PTS41

Total

P38 W26 D7 L5 GF68 GA24 GD44 PTS85

Jose Mourinho
Season 1
P19 W8 D10 L1 GF26 GA12 GD14 PTS34

Current Season
P13 W10 D2 L1 GF29 GA5 GD24 PTS32

Total
P32 W18 D12 L2 GF55 GA17 GD38 PTS66

So even if Jose was to manage to perform a miracle and win his remaining 6 home games this season (he won't), he'd still be a point worse off than LVG.

I also judge it on PL only as the PL is our bread and butter and its our most important competition, I always want to finish as high up in the league as possible personally.

So Jose apologists, wrap your head around those numbers and try justify them."

Skewing stats to prove a 'point'

When are the mentalist LvG sympathisers going to do one.

 

[André Dominguez]

This thread is going a bitt off road. We might not be playing much better football, but we have a much more competitive mentality than before. We actually have ambitions. We will not win the title this season or probably the next one, but we are back to the top tier teams once again. If that is not an improvement, I don't know what it is.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Some delightful half-time kneejerking in this thread, I see. Textbook stuff.

FWIW, my patience with Mourinho reached an all-time low at about that same point in yesterday's game. But Van Gaal made me reach that exact same point, then rub my nose in it for several weeks on an ongoing basis. The tail end of his tenure and where we are with Mourinho right now aren't even remotely comparable.

 

[Puddser]

Why do the numbers need "justified"? You're using stats from Jose's first season, which wasn't as good as his current season, and comparing them with stats from LVG's best season, which he got fair credit for at the time anyway. If it wasn't for a surprise run of home draws over a year ago, the stats would probably look very similar.

Skewing stats to prove a 'point'

When are the mentalist LvG sympathisers going to do one.

Wow, some people really can't take on board what they are reading and then go off and decide he's just "skewing" stats.

How on earth is taking a like for like comparison skewing stats? I literally just put in black an white LVG's 1st and 2nd seasons home form and then his overall home form vs Jose's 1st and this current season and his overall home form.. That's like for like.

As I also pointed out, but you some too ignorant to read and take on board, Even if Jose was to win his remaining home games this term it'd still be 1 point less than LVG's overall home record, how in the blue hell is that skewing numbers?

It's cold hard facts put down in black n white and then the Jose apologists come up with such insightful replies as laughing gifs? Really? That's the best defence of Jose is it? Well its not like you can use facts like I did as it'd prove my point, wouldn't it? If your going to defend Jose by all means put some thought into it and nothing something as childish as laughing gifs, Its a discussion forum after all isn't it?

 

[World Game]

Skewing stats to prove a 'point'

When are the mentalist LvG sympathisers going to do one.

How are the stats skewed?

 

[Fener1907]

Of course they have, and you always need to consider that the current manager has to clean up the crap of the last. In Mourinho's case, it's practically been a full-time job shoveling the shit left behind by Moyes and van Gaal.

 

[Theonas]

There was more wrong with lvgs team than simply playing Rooney. There was a mentality issue, players were afraid to take chances. Football is about risk taking.

I think mentality is overrated in the sense fans expect it to lead to results. I think it is usually the opposites. When a team clicks and has a good run, it creates momentum, when that momentum lasts long enough and the squad goes through some great comebacks or wins or even tough to take defeats that they come back from, it translates itself into a strong mentality. It comes from continuity, stability and success. When we talk about Fergie and the mentality of his teams, I think it was driven by years and years of him having established himself, having an aura that affected not only his players but also his opponents in the way they were intimidated especially in English football.

This is why I don't think LvG or Mourinho should be held responsible for not instilling the right mentality. That's not to say a leader has no influence when it comes to that, it just means their influence is limited and in the case of those two, we already know they have it in them looking at their past. What they should be held responsible for however is the technical and tactical flaws that failed to create the momentum necessary to build such mentality.

 

[Theonas]

Personnel-wise, yes

Tactically, no

Jose’s ability to build squads combined with LvGs tactical discipline might not have us top of the PL right now but we would be a damn sight better than we are!

I agree with this. I don't think we did not improve tactically. It's more that we went into a tactical direction that is inherently more fragile and limited and that relies on other teams' under performing. Of course all tactics rely to an extent on the opponent but our approach is even more so which is why it is still enough for us to finish second and could even be enough to win us the league in most other seasons, but it is a league that was won by Leicester. So yes, personnel wise, most definitely, this team is even better on paper at least than some of Fergie's. Tactically, we're working within a more limited, lower ceiling spectrum than under LvG even if we might be higher on said spectrum.

 

[golden_blunder]

I think mentality is overrated in the sense fans expect it to lead to results. I think it is usually the opposites. When a team clicks and has a good run, it creates momentum, when that momentum lasts long enough and the squad goes through some great comebacks or wins or even tough to take defeats that they come back from, it translates itself into a strong mentality. It comes from continuity, stability and success. When we talk about Fergie and the mentality of his teams, I think it was driven by years and years of him having established himself, having an aura that affected not only his players but also his opponents in the way they were intimidated especially in English football.

This is why I don't think LvG or Mourinho should be held responsible for not instilling the right mentality. That's not to say a leader has no influence when it comes to that, it just means their influence is limited and in the case of those two, we already know they have it in them looking at their past. What they should be held responsible for however is the technical and tactical flaws that failed to create the momentum necessary to build such mentality.

Not sure I agree with that. Mentality is a state of thinking and we all know that Lvg went to great lengths to instill his philosophy. The players became cowardly cautious because they knew they’d be told off for things like being in the wrong part of the pitch

Yes confidence is part of that but the manager created such a regime that it bred negative play and led to changes in thinking and confidence issues.

I remember one euro match at OT where Valencia literally had loads of space to run into but only went so far then turned and passed it backwards despite having no one ahead of him in a position to challenge. It was like he suddenly realized ‘shit I’m too far forward’

 

[londonredmaniac]

As someone who really wanted Jose here, not once but twice...I have to say not especially.

We have better quality players, and seemingly no clue how to actually use them.

I know Mourinho was always said to play dull football, but I always said that was overstated. I watched plenty of Chelsea and Madrid to see that. Or at least, I thought I did.

The football is awful, the execution is diabolical...the plan seems to be lump the ball long to Lukaku...sit back and let the opposition have the ball and then...when we have it...not alot really.

I'm not enjoying any of what I'm watching. It's awful and I don't think there's been any significant improvement. It's toss to be honest and I'm gutted we are resorting to this.

 

[Lentwood]

As someone who really wanted Jose here, not once but twice...I have to say not especially.

We have better quality players, and seemingly no clue how to actually use them.

I know Mourinho was always said to play dull football, but I always said that was overstated. I watched plenty of Chelsea and Madrid to see that. Or at least, I thought I did.

The football is awful, the execution is diabolical...the plan seems to be lump the ball long to Lukaku...sit back and let the opposition have the ball and then...when we have it...not alot really.

I'm not enjoying any of what I'm watching. It's awful and I don't think there's been any significant improvement. It's toss to be honest and I'm gutted we are resorting to this.

I wouldn’t completely give up the faith just yet. Jose has openly said he focused on our attack first. OK, it’s not really clicking, but the players are now there for the first time in a long time and I believe many of our problems stem from the base of the team

If you look at the back 5 we’ve played this season, JM signings have hardly featured at all. Our full backs are very poor going forward and our CBs are not great on the ball. We’ve also had a problem with the third midfielder. McTominay has done OK, Herrera isn’t good enough, Fellaini has been injured/isn’t good enough so we’ve looked short in the engine room.

Look at the way two WBs and a fit again Gundogan have transformed City from top 4 to top spot.

This summer the priority HAS to be getting two proper attacking full backs and a world class midfield player. Add that to what we have already and a fit again Eric Bailly and I think we look the complete unit

 

[Theonas]

Not sure I agree with that. Mentality is a state of thinking and we all know that Lvg went to great lengths to instill his philosophy. The players became cowardly cautious because they knew they’d be told off for things like being in the wrong part of the pitch

Yes confidence is part of that but the manager created such a regime that it bred negative play and led to changes in thinking and confidence issues.

I remember one euro match at OT where Valencia literally had loads of space to run into but only went so far then turned and passed it backwards despite having no one ahead of him in a position to challenge. It was like he suddenly realized ‘shit I’m too far forward’

That's a fair point, I think we have a bit of a chicken-egg scenario there. I think my point was that if those very same instructions yielded results, the players would follow them religiously and with absolute belief that they would translate to what we would call mentality. I think the exact same can be said about Mourinho in terms of how some of his methods can contribute to a lack of confidence. In theory at least, when you insist on being "humble" and going into every big game with the mindset of nullifying first and foremost basically being indirectly told that you are not as good as your competitors, it can mean that the players are insecure which again can translate into a weak mentality. But we do know those approaches won in the past, when his teams had momentum going for them, this did not affect them and they were some of the toughest competitors around.

I realize we are going in circles here but I do think indeed that mentality and character are very difficult characteristic to identify and to separate from confidence and momentum.

 

[SalfordRed18]

Mind boggling people can't see clear improvement. Short memories IMO.

 

[shaky]

Wow, some people really can't take on board what they are reading and then go off and decide he's just "skewing" stats.

How on earth is taking a like for like comparison skewing stats? I literally just put in black an white LVG's 1st and 2nd seasons home form and then his overall home form vs Jose's 1st and this current season and his overall home form.. That's like for like.

As I also pointed out, but you some too ignorant to read and take on board, Even if Jose was to win his remaining home games this term it'd still be 1 point less than LVG's overall home record, how in the blue hell is that skewing numbers?

It's cold hard facts put down in black n white and then the Jose apologists come up with such insightful replies as laughing gifs? Really? That's the best defence of Jose is it? Well its not like you can use facts like I did as it'd prove my point, wouldn't it? If your going to defend Jose by all means put some thought into it and nothing something as childish as laughing gifs, Its a discussion forum after all isn't it?

The stats are thus:

LVG average points per home game, season 1 : 2.3
LVG average points per home game, season 2 : 2.16

Mourinho average points per home game, season 1: 1.79
Mourinho average points per home game, season 2 so far: 2.5

Now you're trying to argue that we haven't improved from LVG, based on Mourinho's home game stats.

Firstly, I'll ignore that you're sweeping LVG's away stats under the carpet, since they're too awful for even you to mention. (13 away league wins over 2 seasons, Jose managed 10 in his first).

Next, now maybe you aren't skewing the numbers, but you are intentionally giving absolutely no weighting to the fact that Mourinho's stats in his second season are markedly improved from his first. Improved actually to the point where he has even surpassed LVG's best home average for a season. Calling people "ignorant" for not blindly accepting the message you're trying to make with your stats is pretty pathetic when you're willfully only telling half the story, and are only using stats from last season to try and obscure the fact that his stats from this season are actually excellent.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Yes confidence is part of that but the manager created such a regime that it bred negative play and led to changes in thinking and confidence issues.

In a way I agree, but the principles of what LVG wanted and what Pep does with his teams are the same. I think the media made too much out of what LVG said and it took on new life under the fans. Like the he’d rather a player take a touch then shoot. Morphed in to he doesn’t want anyone taking first time shots. Simply he was being pragmatic and pointing out if a player takes a touch sets himself he has a better chance of getting a shot on target. A thing that also gets forgotten is we had a really young and untested frontline still finding their way in the game. At times they had moments of really really good play. I think their lack of experience and the lack of any real quality in midfield led to just this doubtful front 6 that didn’t seem to trust each other hence the very static boring football.

LVG also mentioned time and time again that he wanted a faster tempo.

I remember one euro match at OT where Valencia literally had loads of space to run into but only went so far then turned and passed it backwards despite having no one ahead of him in a position to challenge. It was like he suddenly realized ‘shit I’m too far forward’

That sounds very similar to Valencia now except add in Young, Shaw, Martial to the list with him.

 

[VanGaalEra]

The whole 'at least LVG had a plan and style of playing football' is all well and good until you realise that plan wasn't working and wasn't ever going to work.