Mkhhitaryan is has speed to his game, Mata doesn't
Mkhitaryan is proven to be effective and efficient on the right, Mata has not.
Henrikh Mkhitaryan | BVB confirm transfer
- Thread starter United Pro
- Start date
- Status
Mkhitaryan is proven to be effective and efficient on the right, Mata has not.
Some peope are so erratic in their judging of players. Kante apparently is world class for 1 season of decent play. Mkhitaryan has a ridiculous season with 11 goals and 20 assists in 31 games in the Bundesliga. How is that not superstar level by comparison? He's two footed, got a cannon of a shot, can dribble, moves well, and can pass/cross well. Would instantly be our best winger even over Martial. For where the club is right now he'd be a great addition as he genuinely wants to join our club and is available for cheap. We aren't going to get the best wingers in the world as Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern, PSG, and even MCFC have more pull with players right now.
If you are averaging 1 goal or assist every 83 minutes how do you disappear from games or get labeled as inconsistent? I bet i can count with one hand how many players across the big leagues average a goal or assist every 83 mins. Even Mahrez couldn't. Don't delude yourselves, he' not a big flashy name but he performs. Inconsistency is expected out of the winger as they have to take the most risks and are under the most pressure to create. Sometimes you get tough match-ups or the opposition tactics are aimed at neutralizing a player. Averaged 10 and 10 in the last decent season Klopp had. 27 is a player entering his prime and you get 4-5 solid seasons. Dortmund doesn't want him to leave for a reason. I hope we can work something out as he'd be the injection our offense needs. Someone's got to feed Zlatan.
If you are averaging 1 goal or assist every 83 minutes how do you disappear from games or get labeled as inconsistent? I bet i can count with one hand how many players across the big leagues average a goal or assist every 83 mins. Even Mahrez couldn't. Don't delude yourselves, he' not a big flashy name but he performs. Inconsistency is expected out of the winger as they have to take the most risks and are under the most pressure to create. Sometimes you get tough match-ups or the opposition tactics are aimed at neutralizing a player. Averaged 10 and 10 in the last decent season Klopp had. 27 is a player entering his prime and you get 4-5 solid seasons. Dortmund doesn't want him to leave for a reason. I hope we can work something out as he'd be the injection our offense needs. Someone's got to feed Zlatan.
I couldn't agree more.
Not an expert at all on him but when I think of a Mourinho type wide player (I know he plays centrally but I would guess if he were to sign, he would be on the right), I think this guy ticks all the boxes. Main thing is that he is effective, he always impacts the game through chances and goals. From what I have seen, he also has a bit of an engine on him too which will be a plus under Jose. Would be surprised to see Dortmund sell though, can see them being happy to let him go for free.
More stats in relation to dribbling. Per Opta, a successful dribble means the player beats the defender while retaining possession.
Mickey's Stats as a RF or RAMC 15/16(Bundesliga only) per 90 mins
Successful dribble to unsuccessful dribble ratio= 3.2:2
Juan Mata as a RAMC or RF in 14/15 per 90 mins(Premier League only)
Successful dribble to unsuccessful dribble ratio: 1.4:.04
Gareth Bale RMF/RF in 15/16 per 90 mins in the La Liga
Successful dribble to unsuccessful dribble ratio= 2.4:1.5
Riyad Mahrez RMF/RF in 15/16 per 90 mins in Premier League(Player of the Year)
Successful dribble to unsuccessful dribble ratio 4:3.1
Lionel Messi RMF/RF in 14/15 per 90 mins La Liga( Ballon D Or winner)
Successful dribble to unsuccessful dribble ratio 4.9:3.3
Mickey's Stats as a RF or RAMC 15/16(Bundesliga only) per 90 mins
Successful dribble to unsuccessful dribble ratio= 3.2:2
Juan Mata as a RAMC or RF in 14/15 per 90 mins(Premier League only)
Successful dribble to unsuccessful dribble ratio: 1.4:.04
Gareth Bale RMF/RF in 15/16 per 90 mins in the La Liga
Successful dribble to unsuccessful dribble ratio= 2.4:1.5
Riyad Mahrez RMF/RF in 15/16 per 90 mins in Premier League(Player of the Year)
Successful dribble to unsuccessful dribble ratio 4:3.1
Lionel Messi RMF/RF in 14/15 per 90 mins La Liga( Ballon D Or winner)
Successful dribble to unsuccessful dribble ratio 4.9:3.3
Anyone who speaks German here? Latest update on Mkhi http://bild.de/sport/fussball/borus...le.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Dortmund won't let Mikhi go this transfer period. They renounce the money and rather let him go for free next year than let him leave now
I think we can look at this signing (if it happen) in two ways.
People said that his stats, consistency, and big games chokers are concerns. Those things were culminated from the first two seasons and some of the last season. However, couldn't we argue that it might be that he is improving on his consistency and stats wise in the three years he's been in Dortmund. People also said that he waisted chances to score in some of the big games but what about the way he got to get those chances. Those thing should count too. Some of the best players chock and waisted big chances in big games (not going to name names).
Another thing is that his mentality is not stable and could work against him when moving to other environment. I don't watch him a lot and can confess that I'm no expert on anything physiology-related, but, I believe if any manager can make player work hard and play for him, it's Mourinho. He is great at man-management (imo of course). He will make him feel confidence and whatever else to same impact like Tuchel do.
Style wise some people think he could be our Mata if he sign. A player with one great season stats wise and will not perform to his best again like Mata. However, he looks completely different to Mata. He is quicker, stronger, can dribble, has a pass on him and imrove his shooting and scoring. (Compare his stats from the first two years).
All in all, he looks to be a very good player with reasonable price if he signed. This signing will be good for us as he's in a age where he will be playing at his peak for at least three year. We need experience and he will give us that and much more.
People said that his stats, consistency, and big games chokers are concerns. Those things were culminated from the first two seasons and some of the last season. However, couldn't we argue that it might be that he is improving on his consistency and stats wise in the three years he's been in Dortmund. People also said that he waisted chances to score in some of the big games but what about the way he got to get those chances. Those thing should count too. Some of the best players chock and waisted big chances in big games (not going to name names).
Another thing is that his mentality is not stable and could work against him when moving to other environment. I don't watch him a lot and can confess that I'm no expert on anything physiology-related, but, I believe if any manager can make player work hard and play for him, it's Mourinho. He is great at man-management (imo of course). He will make him feel confidence and whatever else to same impact like Tuchel do.
Style wise some people think he could be our Mata if he sign. A player with one great season stats wise and will not perform to his best again like Mata. However, he looks completely different to Mata. He is quicker, stronger, can dribble, has a pass on him and imrove his shooting and scoring. (Compare his stats from the first two years).
All in all, he looks to be a very good player with reasonable price if he signed. This signing will be good for us as he's in a age where he will be playing at his peak for at least three year. We need experience and he will give us that and much more.
This one's dead I think. They're not selling this window unless we pay a crazy amount it seems. We shouldn't be fleeced, just wait until next season for free.
This. I don't understand people. He is one of the best players in a team that plays at a much higher level than us, performed way better than anyone in our squad and had qualities as a player we desperately need.
Who exactly do people want us to sign?
Bale, Ronaldo, Griezmann and co aren't coming.
You want us to sign Mahrez cause of one amazing season but you don't want us to sign Mkhitaryan because he's only had one amazing season.
With every single player we are linked with, you hear a chorus of groans.
Give it a rest people.
Judging from Raiola's words we are still talking and trying to find a solution. Still a fair chance this happens.
It goes completely against how we do business with out targets. We usually get our targets to keep quiet if we are working on them not spit their mouth off about how much they would like to join us.
Raiola's always been very outspoken.
Well, I'm sure we knew what kind of agent Raiola is before approached him. It's not the first time he's done this and won't be the last. I think he's genuinely surprised Dortmund aren't letting him go easily.
I think Mkhitaryan would have to have a free role behind the striker in order to be a success here. I worry about Rooney though, whether he still has the aptitude to interchange with Martial and Mkhi, otherwise we're going to end up with a situation where Mkhi spends a lot of time out on the wings where he can't really affect the game. Like what happened with Kagawa, although he was a far more limited player compared to Mkhi.
But he plays on the wing for dortmund. As for rooney hes been fantastic in his last 3 games in midfield. A run of games long enough to convince many last season that Herrera was the man we should build the team around.
Here, here.
Has there been much of a fan backlash to their recent sales? Perhaps this is forcing them to take a hard stance to placate them.
I say we should sign a pre-contract to get him 2017 for free. The risk that Dortmund will convince him to sign a new contract during the next season is too big.
Getting a Player of such calibre for free (even if we have to wait 1 year) sounds like great Business.
Getting a Player of such calibre for free (even if we have to wait 1 year) sounds like great Business.
You can see why they don't want to sell. If they sell him, then Aubemayang will want to leave as well, and that would mean losing 4 of their best players in one summer. It's just too much, especially since you never know how well Ancelloti will fit with Bayern, they might have a decent shot of actually winning the league.
Freebie in 2017 then, or not, since we need to buy someone for RW this year...
Freebie in 2017 then, or not, since we need to buy someone for RW this year...
The fans would be more understanding, I think it'll be the players in the current squad who will be the most annoyed. If they sell Mkhi then Aubameyang will absolutely kick off too. Losing Gundogan and him plus the other 2 in 1 season would be a massive hurdle. They've signed some good young talent, but it'll take a while to get them ready.
You could be right. We'll have to see how Rooney gets on against better sides in the tournament, but admittedly he's doing quite well at the moment.
For my part, I think Mkhi is a cracking player. BVB don't want to sell, but Raiola seems like the kind of guy that's used to getting his own way, and doesn't care about who he has to piss off to get there. The Florentino Perez of agents, I guess. He owes us one for Pogba anyway.
Sadly I think we won't get our Targaryan, Dortmund seems dead set on digging their heels in.
Player in the last year of contract, refuse to sell at a high price to a foreign club, but bend over backwards and sell at once when Bayern come calling.
#dortmundlogixx
As a thank you I hope we sign Targaryan on a free, then proceed to tap up every desirable player they have.
Player in the last year of contract, refuse to sell at a high price to a foreign club, but bend over backwards and sell at once when Bayern come calling.
#dortmundlogixx
As a thank you I hope we sign Targaryan on a free, then proceed to tap up every desirable player they have.
Looks like that's another target gone - Willian first choice (I suspect), Micki second, who's third choice? Mane?
Pretty contracts can only be signed once 6 months are left it in the current one.
Would better for them to sell him to us for a decent fee then potentially losing him possibly to Bayern for free. I dont think this is over yet, if tey can find a good replacement during the summer and Raiola talking shit all the time, they could still decide to sell hopefully
If they dont sell to us now I would like to believe we will have an unofficial agreement with Raiola and the player for a big sign-on fee if he signs for us in January. A player like this for free will automatically mean that 4-5 big clubs will be in for him. Real and Barca are out of the equation due to their squads. But you can bet your ass that the stingy cnuts at Juve plus a host of PL clubs will be in on it.
There's his agents ready-made next threat.
Dortmund appear thick as shit to me, how they keep allowing themselves to be in situations where they strengthen their biggest rivals every summer is the worst run club imaginable. And as you say, have this stance with Mkhitaryan now and there's a very good chance Bayern will be rubbing their hands together again in Jan.
Stupid stupid football club, run by idiots. Such a shame as it's a great club that I really respect, but this Bayern thing has been beyond embarrassing for them. Just imagine the same thing happening from Liverpool to us.
This lad is the real deal and gettable (is that a word?)
We have no divine right to sign the likes of Neymar and co. We finished 5th last season playing dreadful football.
Mourinho will fire us back to the top but let's be realistic along the way. This isn't Football Manager or FIFA Career Mode, this is the real life - not fantasy.
We have no divine right to sign the likes of Neymar and co. We finished 5th last season playing dreadful football.
Mourinho will fire us back to the top but let's be realistic along the way. This isn't Football Manager or FIFA Career Mode, this is the real life - not fantasy.
Mata had good seasons at Valencia, no? And also two very good seasons for Chelsea. Not sure why some suggesting we spent a load of money on him purely based on his last season.
As said in previous posts, Mou is not the type to blow all his budget in one signing. He will go for a number of top quality but financially viable targets who will strengthen us.
Id say we should throw a couple more millions of euros to the deal and have it signed this year. There's no point in pissing Dortmund off IF it can be avoided
Mata is slow. Miki is quick. Completely different players.
He can sign precontract only in Jan but if we wait to sign him on free then there is no guarantee that he will sign for us only. Quality player on free, every top club will be in for him which means there is a good chance we might lose him.
If Jose thinks he is the player we need to improve the team then we should just pay the money and sign him.
This is not personal against you but my view in general regarding some of the comments in this thread.
Lots of knowledge about football, players, stats and so on but less about running a club/company and standard negotiating routine.
Dortmund will officially refuse to sell Mhkitaryan until they sell him. You can't handle it another way.
Talks about principles and take a hard stance works in theory but any experienced negotiater, depending on your bargaining position, in the end has to be pragmatic.
In this case there are four parties involved. The only one who talks are the players agent and Watzke.
If Dortmund had made up their mind then it would be a better option for Watzke to be quit. Let Raiola talk all he wants.
There are no guaranties but I would be very surprised if Dortmund let this end up in tears. Mino Raiola will not stop talking to the media. Mhkitaryan has expressed his desire, he will lose face and end up very disappointed if the deal collapse. Other Dortmunds players will take notice. Sell their captain to the arch enemy but refuse another the opportunity of his life because of principles. Not a good strategy.
I like Dortmund! A great club doing wonder with a restricted budget, good management and they have a fantastic stadium with a great atmosphere. There is nothing to dislike.
But in this case they are in a lose and lose situation if they don't sell. They are not the first and not the last.
6 months if the teams are in the same league, 12 months if they are in a different league.
Have a good source for that? Always knew it was just 6 months.
Dortmund should take a breather and think about how this will go if they dont sell:
1) January comes - Targaryan signs for Bayern on a free
2) Dortmund misses out on 35m euro minimum
3) Dortmund has once again strengthened their domestic rival
4) The saga of Dortmund being Bayerns feeding club continues, diminishing both their brand, club and title chances
5) Players at Dortmund takes notice
6) Rinse and repeat for the next player
I personally don't hate City for competing with money, its how they obtained said money that i dislike.
Just as bad as Utd this season though[/QUOTE
They and clubs like them, (not to mention other clubs gree)d, raised the prices
The key quote is Raiola saying "we are still talking ". If Dortmund were completely dogmatic, there won't be any talks.
Riola represents Zlatan, Mkhitaryan and Pogba. Could be a theme.
I do think that Mkhitaryn has a very similar 'play style' to Mata only quicker, which makes him an attractive prospect.
- Status