How come Ole can only get a semi? | Can he finally go all the way?

[Leftback99]

Our Semi Finals since 2013

2016 FA Cup - Everton (Final Palace)
2017 Europa - Celta Vigo (Final Ajax)
2017 League Cup - Hull (Final Southampton)
2018 FA Cup - Spurs (Final - lost to Chelsea)

2020 FA Cup - Chelsea
2020 League Cup - City (City won Cup)
2020 Europa - Sevilla (Sevilla won Cup)
2021 League Cup - City

The difference in results is hardly surprising given the opponents.

Sevilla we should have won comfortably on the balance of play.

 

[Lentwood]

Firstly, I wouldn't worry about the semi-final defeats last season. As a team, we probably did well even to get that far.

This time we came up a good team who played very well and got the luck at the right time with the deflected free kick (1st goal). Nothing to worry about here, onwards and upwards!

 

[SuperiorXI]

Just got bested by a better team tonight.

 

[Wilt]

The ‘big six’ managers all have his number now and he hasn’t figured it out or adapted. Too negative tonight and slow to make changes, went out with a whimper.

Sums it up really

 

[Greck]

Just don't end the season trophyless. We haven't made a final in 3 or so years. Really wanted this one. Have a bunch of Arsenal fans waiting to return the shite that was thrown at them under Wenger. Also to stop Jose from winning silverware before us, We would have played him in the finals. Now we have the uncomfortable situation of having to see either City or that cnut win a cup

 

[Mickson]

Even though we lost, my god are we improving.

Grealish instead of Pogba today and we win that game.

Pogba was probably our best player but okay...

 

[BorisManUtd]

Our Semi Finals since 2013

2016 FA Cup - Everton (Final Palace)
2017 Europa - Celta Vigo (Final Ajax)
2017 League Cup - Hull (Final Southampton)
2018 FA Cup - Spurs (Final - lost to Chelsea)

2020 FA Cup - Chelsea
2020 League Cup - City (City won Cup)
2020 Europa - Sevilla (Sevilla won Cup)
2021 League Cup - City

The difference in results is hardly surprising given the opponents.

Sevilla we should have won comfortably on the balance of play.

This.

 

[charlenefan]

Our Semi Finals since 2013

2016 FA Cup - Everton (Final Palace)
2017 Europa - Celta Vigo (Final Ajax)
2017 League Cup - Hull (Final Southampton)
2018 FA Cup - Spurs (Final - lost to Chelsea)

2020 FA Cup - Chelsea
2020 League Cup - City (City won Cup)
2020 Europa - Sevilla (Sevilla won Cup)
2021 League Cup - City

The difference in results is hardly surprising given the opponents.

Sevilla we should have won comfortably on the balance of play.

Yeah we draw Brentford (it was them who Spurs played yesterday wasn't it?) we're in a final now. The issue isn't a mental block when it comes to semi finals it's that we're playing teams who are better than us (something people need to accept)

Man City don't concede a sloppy set piece goal in a game of that importance and that's one of the reasons they're better than us, but we are getting there

 

[passing-wind]

Just don't end the season trophyless. We haven't made a final in 3 or so years. Really wanted this one. Have a bunch of Arsenal fans waiting to return the shite that was thrown at them under Wenger. Also to stop Jose from winning silverware before us, We would have played him in the finals. Now we have the uncomfortable situation of having to see either City or that cnut win a cup

I actually think on the basis of how poor teams are this season that if Solskjaer doesn't win anything this year of note his job should seriously be under contention. I said around November that an inconsistent team will win the league this year no matter who it is. You can throw Grealish, Sancho, Koulibaily into this squad but will we ever have the same opportunity in the future of every top 6 team being as rubbish as they have been this season ? Leicester only lost 3 games when they win the league, this COVID period seasonal campaign is perhaps the easiest period a manager can get the league on the basis of competitiveness.

 

[el3mel]

The ‘big six’ managers all have his number now and he hasn’t figured it out or adapted. Too negative tonight and slow to make changes, went out with a whimper.

It's indeed a little bit worrying that our record against big teams have been rubbish this season. Our only really good big game was against PSG away, otherwise it has been rubbish in league, CL and now the cup.

I don't know what's the problem. He looked much better in getting results out of those last year. Even when we were crap we managed to do something like beating Guardiola and Mourinho in a space of a week. This season we haven't done anything in most big games.

It's a good thing though, that we got better at defeating fodders and that's why we're up in the league table. At the end of the day it's a points game in the league and defeating fodders is what makes you win the title not defeating other big games, but at the moment I will honestly not trust us at all if our lives depended on a result against a top team.

 

[Greck]

I actually think on the basis of how poor teams are this season that if Solskjaer doesn't win anything this year of note his job should seriously be under contention. I said around November that an inconsistent team will win the league this year no matter who it is. You can throw Grealish, Sancho, Koulibaily into this squad but will we ever have the same opportunity in the future of every top 6 team being as rubbish as they have been this season ? Leicester only lost 3 games when they win the league, this COVID period seasonal campaign is perhaps the easiest period a manager can get the league on the basis of competitiveness.

Honestly exhausted of discussing his prospects. Just win something. Anything, preferably before Jose. Three seasons would be a drought. I don't want to be disingenuus and say they have to win the league as that's a huge ask but would certainly settle for the FA cup

 

[croadyman]

Yeah we draw Brentford (it was them who Spurs played yesterday wasn't it?) we're in a final now. The issue isn't a mental block when it comes to semi finals it's that we're playing teams who are better than us (something people need to accept)

Man City don't concede a sloppy set piece goal in a game of that importance and that's one of the reasons they're better than us, but we are getting there

Yeah these sloppy set pieces goals are happening far too many times this season

 

[Sassy Colin]

Thread title is still very much highly suspicious.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I thought Mctominay played well today. Bruno was the problem he was totally off. Maybe should have taken him off.

You thought McTominay played well

 

[el3mel]

Are people really expecting us to play through a cup without eventually facing a big side or a team better than us ?

It's not the luck of the draw, it's just inevitable to happen either in semi final, final or prior to them. The real luck is going through an entire cup run without facing a single top side. Spurs faced Brentford in semi final, but they had to get past Chelsea in earlier rounds. City faced us and now will have to defeat Spurs in the final, and got past Arsenal earlier. City Last season had to defeat us to reach the final. Arsenal in Fa Cup last season as well had to defeat City and Chelsea to win the cup, both are much better than them. It happens. This is a cup format.

Pretty weird to blame the luck of a draw. Facing a big team is something bound to happen unless you're ridiculously lucky.

 

[sunama]

Firstly, I wouldn't worry about the semi-final defeats last season. As a team, we probably did well even to get that far.

This time we came up a good team who played very well and got the luck at the right time with the deflected free kick (1st goal). Nothing to worry about here, onwards and upwards!

So, you've literally written off 4 semi final losses in a row like they don't actually count.
Funny.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

We will see if we can reach to semi finals in the next cups. Fa cup depend a lot on the draws we got.
In Europe we already have a hard game to reach the next round.

 

[FrankWhite]

It's indeed a little bit worrying that our record against big teams have been rubbish this season. Our only really good big game was against PSG away, otherwise it has been rubbish in league, CL and now the cup.

I don't know what's the problem. He looked much better in getting results out of those last year. Even when we were crap we managed to do something like beating Guardiola and Mourinho in a space of a week. This season we haven't done anything in most big games.

It's a good thing though, that we got better at defeating fodders and that's why we're up in the league table. At the end of the day it's a points game in the league and defeating fodders is what makes you win the title not defeating other big games, but at the moment I will honestly not trust us at all if our lives depended on a result against a top team.

I think it's actually quite simple. It's an identity issue. In a lot of those games last season, those teams were better than us (both Ole and the fans knew this). so we happily accepted the underdog role, play 5 at the back, used a hard working midfield and countered with fast forwards. What's changed now, ironically, is that we have actually improved as team . Not quite to a level better than these teams but enough that we are no longer clearly an underdog.

We played pogba and bruno in this game and four at the back as we have in most big games since after the restart last season. This is also why our results against the poor teams have improved this season.
Its a sign of progress and I hope we continue to improve and eventually get there.
My main concern is that when I look at the bug teams we are trying to match, they have both great players and greats systems. I actually think we have great enough players now. We just don't have a good enough system yet. Hopefully we'll get there.

 

[Leftback99]

Are people really expecting us to play through a cup without eventually facing a big side or a team better than us ?

It's not the luck of the draw, it's just inevitable to happen either in semi final, final or prior to them. The real luck is going through an entire cup run without facing a single top side. Spurs faced Brentford in semi final, but they had to get past Chelsea in earlier rounds. City faced us and now will have to defeat Spurs in the final, and got past Arsenal earlier. City Last season had to defeat us to reach the final. Arsenal in Fa Cup last season as well had to defeat City and Chelsea to win the cup, both are much better than them. It happens. This is a cup format.

Pretty weird to blame the luck of a draw. Facing a big team is something bound to happen unless you're ridiculously lucky.

I don't think anyone is saying that although it is pretty much what happened in our last 3 Cup wins. I count 1 game in all 3 (City 4th round in 2016) that we wouldn't have been favourites for and we have a better side now than then.

Actually I was too generous there looking at the City team that night https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37700029

 

[el3mel]

I think it's actually quite simple. It's an identity issue. In a lot of those games last season, those teams were better than us (both Ole and the fans knew this). so we happily accepted the underdog role, play 5 at the back, used a hard working midfield and countered with fast forwards. What's changed now, ironically, is that we have actually improved as team . Not quite to a level better than these teams but enough that we are no longer clearly an underdog.

We played pogba and bruno in this game and four at the back as we have in most big games since after the restart last season. This is also why our results against the poor teams have improved this season.
Its a sign of progress and I hope we continue to improve and eventually get there.
My main concern is that when I look at the bug teams we are trying to match, they have both great players and greats systems. I actually think we have great enough players now. We just don't have a good enough system yet. Hopefully we'll get there.

This has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I'm talking about being "unlucky" to draw City. If we have drawn Brentford and made it to the final, we would have still needed to beat either City or Spurs for the cup win. It happens. People are getting it the opposite way really, it's pretty normal to at least draw one big team or one team better than you in a cup run, it's actually the opposite, that you're ridiculously lucky to go through an entire cup run avoiding all big teams with all of them getting knocked out away from you. It happened in our 2016 Fa Cup win under LVG, but you can't depend on that every run. Nothing "unlucky" about it. You want to win a cup, 9 times out of 10 you'll have to defeat at least one big team in the run.

 

[always_hoping]

The ‘big six’ managers all have his number now and he hasn’t figured it out or adapted. Too negative tonight and slow to make changes, went out with a whimper.

Who are these big six managers?

 

[Mcking]

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[FrankWhite]

This has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I'm talking about being "unlucky" to draw City. If we have drawn Brentford and made it to the final, we would have still needed to beat either City or Spurs for the cup win. It happens. People are getting it the opposite way really, it's pretty normal to at least draw one big team or one team better than you in a cup run, it's actually the opposite, that you're ridiculously lucky to go through an entire cup run avoiding all big teams with all of them getting knocked out away from you. It happened in our 2016 Fa Cup win under LVG, but you can't depend on that every run. Nothing "unlucky" about it. You want to win a cup, 9 times out of 10 you'll have to defeat at least one big team in the run.

I agree you will have to face a big team. Of course you do, the cream always rise to the top. What I've stated above are the reasons why we our fortunes against these teams have changed.

 

[TMDaines]

Yeah we draw Brentford we're in a final now.

Which we’d inevitably lose to nil, unless we got a pen.

 

[Rightnr]

We'll be losing quarter finals next year but I'm sure the same people will claim and point how much we've improved. Loser mentality.

 

[criticalanalysis]

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The Klopp comparisons are semi-uncanny.

 

[frookydinho]

Not good enough to be put simply.
Not tactically smart enough when push comes to shove, not brave enough with his decisions and plays it easy in terms of his selections. Love Ole the player, but as a manager he is simply not good enough.
We have a great team but to be honest, I've said it before, name me another prem team who would hire him

 

[MattofManchester]

Needs more happy pills.

 

[Infra-red]

It's not rocket science - you generally meet stronger teams in the semis than you do in the earlier rounds.

It is a bit inconvenient for those who wanted to keep Ole over Pochettino, though, given that the criticism most often levelled against the latter was his trophy haul (or lack thereof). Haven't yet seen any sign that Ole can win when it matters, either.

 

[croadyman]

It's not rocket science - you generally meet stronger teams in the semis than you do in the earlier rounds.

It is a bit inconvenient for those who wanted to keep Ole over Pochettino, though, given that the criticism most often levelled against the latter was his trophy haul (or lack thereof). Haven't yet seen any sign that Ole can win when it matters, either.

Yeah the knives will be out in the press over his poor semi-final record

 

[rotherham_red]

While 4 semi exits are not good enough and need improving upon, I have to say having City twice, Chelsea and Sevilla in the Europa League isn't exactly the easiest of routes.

If only we had the sorts of teams LvG and Jose had in their successful cup runs give me Everton, Hull and Celta Vigo any fricking day over the ones we had!

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

PL has no semi final. We can still do it this season lads!!

 

[Freak]

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His first real test.

 

[WakeAndBeek]

It’s a shame he didn’t go in for Ruben Vi(n)agre before Wolves loaned him out, he would defo solve Ole’s semi problem

On a serious note, never nice losing to that lot but the league cup is probably our lowest priority this season, we have the chance to go top of the league for what feels like the first time in eternity. Panic button can remain untouched for now.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

Love the thread title. That’s all I can add really.

 

[Jackal]

While 4 semi exits are not good enough and need improving upon, I have to say having City twice, Chelsea and Sevilla in the Europa League isn't exactly the easiest of routes.

If only we had the sorts of teams LvG and Jose had in their successful cup runs give me Everton, Hull and Celta Vigo any fricking day over the ones we had!

Jose knocked out City on his way to win the league cup in 16/17.

The whole idea that Ole hasn't had the easiest of routes is just a flimsy excuse. If he played Bailly tonight, it would have been a different outcome.
Some of these failures are Ole's own fault of failing to see that Maguire and Lindelof simply don't work - they are slow, lethargic & ponderous.

 

[croadyman]

Jose knocked out City on his way to win the league cup in 16/17.

The whole idea that Ole hasn't had the easiest of routes is just a flimsy excuse. If he played Bailly tonight, it would have been a different outcome.
Some of these failures are Ole's own fault of failing to see that Maguire and Lindelof simply don't work - they are slow, lethargic & ponderous.

Yeah he clearly has a blind spot and sooner or later it could cost the team in the league

 

[keithsingleton]

Just got bested by a better team tonight.

I'm in agreement, no slant on Ole tonite City were simply better and proves what I've been saying for a while, we still need 3, maybe 4 players to take on City & Liverpool. We've improved, but that is all. If we could only get Grealish - Haaland and a bloody good CB Id be very very happy.

 

[ti vu]

More context needed especially for LVG FA campaign.

It was also a crazy season then where teams beat teams. West Ham was a team that defeated big teams throughout the season in the league. They were in the mix for top 4 finish that season until very late on. They're the one who killed our top 4 finish, remember? In FA Cup they beat Liverpool in earlier round. They're no pushover.

Similarly, Everton eliminated Chelsea who in turn destroyed Man City in earlier round.

Celta Vigo eliminated Real Madrid (won Double that season) in Copa Del Rey. They also beat Barcelona once in La Liga. Barcelona lost title to Real Madrid by 3 points (Barcelona won head to head, so if they're both level on point, Barcelona won the title).

These teams were no mere pushovers in those seasons, like their poorer seasons suggest.

While 4 semi exits are not good enough and need improving upon, I have to say having City twice, Chelsea and Sevilla in the Europa League isn't exactly the easiest of routes.

If only we had the sorts of teams LvG and Jose had in their successful cup runs give me Everton, Hull and Celta Vigo any fricking day over the ones we had!

 

[RedStarUnited]

He doesn't know what to do when the game isnt going his way. Sevilla apart because we actually played well that day, The Chelsea and City games are similar. Team doesn't play well on the day, Ole doesn't make any tactical or formation changes and we end up not doing enough.