No, I was talking offensive runs. Arguing with you really turns into a fool's errand. If you think they are still the same players as back then, fine. If you think Barcelona could reclaim its position at the very top with a then to-be-34 year old player who cannot be arsed to help his teammates, also fine. We'll just have to agree on our disagreement here.Yeah they were defensively so good and pressing machine
How do Barcelona rebuild?
- Thread starter Bojan11
- Start date
Next generation will have huge pressure on them, they will always be compared with Xavi, Iniesta and how they are not as good.
Barca management will have huge problem, not many clubs can afford to pay these salaries even if Barca wants to rebuild.
I even posted a stat from 2014 when Messi ran just 1 mile more than GK.
Re bold part, don't worry, I have same feeling when I argue anything with you.
Regarding second bold part, now you are flat out lying. I didn't think they are same players, infact I even said this Messi is not same as Messi back then but he is still best player in the world.
A few days ago we had most of the forum leap to the defence of Jones who suffered ridicule from Twitter
....& now we get posters doing the same thing.
Sigh.
Who decided to pay De Jong that much money in his first really big move?
And the Griezeman salary is also out of this world!!
That's juts insane. They are lucky that Messi bailed them out all these years, they need major reset especially with wages like that.
Sanchez deal looks good compared to this. What the hell. De jong earns more then Lewandowski without winning a single trophy
They've definitely stagnated. From the looks of it, they've got too used to purchasing expensive talents to keep the squad "fresh", but don't seem to have too many exciting prospects with their youth breaking through. If they do, they're helping to nurture those players enough.
They just look like they've lost their identify and many of the things that come with it. I do expect that the team in five years time will look very different. Almost feels like Messi needs to move on before they can properly rebuild, because he appears to bail them out one too many times, or at least everything revolves around him at the club. As he gets older, they have to move away from that mentality.
They’re currently third favourites at the bookies
I think it was Zlatan who wrote in his book that these Barca players were all superstars but they were like school boys nodding for eveything that Pep said. Now I don't know how it is but their work rate is surely on the decline by huge margin.
Btw @BARCA fans, is there any chance Pep will be back to Barca if they get different president?
Madness really. Bayern are the team to beat without question.
I feel it’s a 50/50 with City. The only reason PSG have shorter odds is because they have the easier semi final I guess.
With what has happened between City and UEFA this season, I just have this horrible feeling this is their year.
That does have a horrible sense of inevitability! But at least PSG and Bayern are in there. They'll certainly have to earn it, and without Aguero too.
We need Bayern to win really, rather than any of the other three plastic clubs left in the competition.
He cost us about 30m but we had him for a year or so already which reduces his value technically.
That wage bill is an absolute recipe for a disaster; they should have seen the current situation coming from a mile off.
The club should have put their foot down with Messi's wage demands and explained to him that paying him this much would make it more difficult to attract other players that could help him continue to win things. Instead they caved, and when inflation went through the roof they decided rather than place faith in youth like they have in the past, they would panic and spend crazy amounts on players without having any sort of an idea of how they fit into the team.
Griezmann is the most obvious example. Maaaaybe you could argue he was the long-term replacement for Suarez, but in the short term there didn't seem to be any plan for how to fit him into the team, so they've shifted him out on the left where he's ineffective. To be paying him that much without having a clear place for him in the side is the worst recruitment imaginable. Ten times worse than the Sanchez situation was for us, even if Griezmann's actual performances weren't as bad.
Surely those Griezmann and De Jong wages are wrong. They are both on about double what they 'should' be getting. And is Messi really on that? I thought he was only on around 800k a week. Although he's probably signed a couple of new contracts since then since it feels like he plays the 'is he going to leave' card every season or two now.
I dont know how frequently they play a high line but I do know they have always pressed with intensity wanting to play with the ball. That has been bayern this decade.
Barcelona weren't even favorites this game. Bayern dont have to school a team they are vastly superior too. We need to face reality and know this barcelona is not the same dominant team they were years ago.
That's what they have done under Flick almost every weeks.
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Not what Ive seen or read.
You haven't really looked or read properly then or you are mixing things with Kovac who used a low block and not a lot of pressing.
It needs to start with removing Bartomeu. He basically destroyed the club at the time when they needed a strong president to see them through the transition to a new era without Messi. In some ways, Bartomeu may have done as pathetic of a job as Woodward at United, maybe. They just don't feel it as vividly yet, because they still have Messi, Suarez, and they still spend money in transfer windows + they are in less competitive league. It will get much worse, though.
Looking at the starting squad yesterday, let's mark them up with:
Subs:
Bottomline: the squad Barca had yesterday had two players that maybe can be used in the future team (one of them: goalkeeper), everybody else who started is ready to retire or very close to it. On the bench they had Griezmann who has been a mixed bag, and is knocking on 30 anyway, and Dembélé who is probably still good enough but is way short of the promise Barca had for him. Everybody else was a bunch of unproven youngsters who had only impressed in training or non-senior matches but are completely unknown quality.
This is a fecking joke. Their squad, future value-wise is actually worse than Man United was at any time during our last years of decline. They basically need to buy entire new squad. None of this is salvagable. How the hell do you do something like that?
Looking at the starting squad yesterday, let's mark them up with:
- X - indicating players who have no place in the next 2-year plan because they are done/too-old
- B - indicating players who are in their prime and will start declining in the next 5 years
- F - indicating players that are just not good enough
- ? - indicating players who are not ready or whose quality is still not clear
- A - Indicating players that can be used to form new, winning Barca
- Ter Stegen - A (even though I think he was very bad yesterday, we can't judge him with just that game)
- N. Semedo - F
- G. Piqué - X
- C. Lenglet - F
- J. Alba - X
- S. Roberto - F
- S. Busquets - X
- F. de Jong - A
- A. Vidal - X
- L. Messi - X
- L. Suárez - X
Subs:
- Ivan Rakitić - X
- Ousmane Dembélé - ?
- Neto - F
- Antoine Griezmann - B
- Junior Firpo - ?
- Iñaki Peña Sotorres - ?
- Riqui Puig - ?
- Ansu Fati - ?
- Sven Ulreich - X
- Ronald Araújo - ?
- Monchu - ?
- Óscar Mingueza García - ?
- Ludovit Reis - ?
Bottomline: the squad Barca had yesterday had two players that maybe can be used in the future team (one of them: goalkeeper), everybody else who started is ready to retire or very close to it. On the bench they had Griezmann who has been a mixed bag, and is knocking on 30 anyway, and Dembélé who is probably still good enough but is way short of the promise Barca had for him. Everybody else was a bunch of unproven youngsters who had only impressed in training or non-senior matches but are completely unknown quality.
This is a fecking joke. Their squad, future value-wise is actually worse than Man United was at any time during our last years of decline. They basically need to buy entire new squad. None of this is salvagable. How the hell do you do something like that?
yeah must be cos you say so.Yeap. I don't want to even think about fecking City winning the CL. It will make them even more unbearable. Can't have it.
It's not because I say, it's because it is. Just google "Flick high press", it's one of the most obvious things that he brought a high press, high defensive line and a lot of aggression.
https://www.statsperform.com/resource/hansi-flick-the-latest-advocate-of-the-german-high-press/
https://breakingthelines.com/tactic...ieter-flick-brought-the-magic-back-to-bayern/
High press doesn't mean high defensive line. Thats what was more unique yesterday.
They do both, it wasn't unique at all, they do the same in Bundesliga and did the same against Chelsea, they are a compact team with high press and high defensive line. Which has led to a few questions about how they would handle faster and more direct teams because while Alaba and Davies are really fast Kimmich, Pavard and Boateng aren't, Sule would be a welcome sight.
Just take this from Chelsea's own summary of the game.
Or this from their game against Dortmund in May.
Or here an article from Honigstein dedicated to their high line and the risk to keep using it against a team like PSG and City.
Bayern vs teams like PSG or City should be fun, even yesterday Barca played few passes over their defense but their attackers were not quick enough to make full use of it.
Honestly their squad is still great. I would do a Guardiola clean up of 2008 and get rid of Suarez, Pique and Messi.
MatS, Lenglet, Pjanic, Griezmann, Dembele, De Jong, Cou.. get a Aubameyang, Skriniar or something..
MatS, Lenglet, Pjanic, Griezmann, Dembele, De Jong, Cou.. get a Aubameyang, Skriniar or something..
It's very risky, too often they are almost on the half way line. But PSG and City have a problem with their backlines who often make mistakes when pressed, the likes of Mendy, Kimpembe, Kehrer or even Rodri could easily offer a goal to Bayern. Now if the ball gets to Verratti or Silva it's a different story.
Yeah, I'm not sure who plays deeper role for PSG now with all the injuries but Rodri will have touch time dealing with press and Mendy will be a liability.
Both Bartomeu and Abidal need to go asap. They are ruining the club.
Has Xavi claimed yet that Barca were the better team or does he only say this when he is playing himself?
On a more serious note, could be good for Barca if he returned as assistant coach or at least as part of the coaching team in the rebuilding process.
On a more serious note, could be good for Barca if he returned as assistant coach or at least as part of the coaching team in the rebuilding process.
I agree on almost everything, although in this market it will be impossible to get rid of all those players.
I read that Bartomeu cannot call elections because right now, according to the accounts, he would have to answer with his assets,don't know if It's truth but he will have another season with him and the new coach.
A coach that if has a certain status, and can stay more than one year(let's say Pochettino) will have to deal with another board.
I probably would not give Dembelé more chances, although on the other hand selling him now would mean losing a lot of money and another young player.
As I have read here in the medium term it would be good to look for good players in la liga, such as Isak, Oyarzabal, Koundé,Pau Torres,etc
Yeah, I'd get rid of him too. Get all them high earners off the bill. Start afresh.
The only man that can fix this mess beside Pep, is Mauricio Pochettino. We all know what has to be done, but it won’t because Messi is Barcelona. What needs to be done is sell Messi and use the funds to buy Kane, who only Pochettino can convince to come to Barcelona and over there he will finally win trophies and become maybe a greater player than Lewandowski. Moreover, give Pochettino 90% role in player recruitment and player management.
Poch Barcelona team:
———— Ter Stagen———-
Atal - Upamecano - Lenglet - Alba
——-N’Dombele - De Jong——
Dembele ——————- Coutinho/Traore
——————-Greizman ————-
——————- Kane —————
Second team:
Neto
Samedo - Pique - Umtiti - Firpo
Sergi Roberto
Aléna/Pjanic - Puig
Trincao - Fati - Pedri
Poch Barcelona team:
———— Ter Stagen———-
Atal - Upamecano - Lenglet - Alba
——-N’Dombele - De Jong——
Dembele ——————- Coutinho/Traore
——————-Greizman ————-
——————- Kane —————
Second team:
Neto
Samedo - Pique - Umtiti - Firpo
Sergi Roberto
Aléna/Pjanic - Puig
Trincao - Fati - Pedri
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No, but he should be willing to take a wage cut.
He is the best player in the world with the ball at his feet, but his laziness off the ball is one of the reasons (not the only one) why we get overrun in these games.
I don’t expect him to press like Griezmann but he should at least put in a shift.
Messi is no longer that much better than every other player on the planet, so his ridiculous wages are becoming less justified.
What we do need to sell are the players surrounding him. Suarez, Busquets, Pique, Rakitic and Vidal all need to leave.
I couldn't give a flying fluff how they rebuild...feeeeeel it Barca, feel the struggle.
Long may their fall continue...
...just long enough so we can meet them in the CL and do them.
Long may their fall continue...
...just long enough so we can meet them in the CL and do them.