Yes it is true and it's bad for attendance and entertainment value
How far are you prepared to see United fall?
- Thread starter fastwalker
- Start date
If that's what it takes...
I pretty much do these days... As the fear of Liverpool winning the league is too much for my feeble mind to contemplate.
In theory I'd continue to back the manager if there is 1) a cohesive, attacking-minded playing style and 2) progress during the course of the season. I'd be willing to overlook poor results if there are mitigating factors such as injury (check) or ownership/board incompetence (check). That said, Ole doesn't have the pedigree which would buy him a long leash. He's got to start showing that he can figure things out and adapt, and that really has to be evident as soon as we start getting players healthy again.
If the results aren't there or it looks like we're spinning in place, I can't see him getting past this season. I do think he will be kept on even if we finish #6-8 so long as it looks like the team is developing. Even Woody can see that a shift to a young team means inevitably that results and performances will be inconsistent. I'd have no problem if we finished 8th if, at the end of the season, the u21 players are fully bedded in and we can point to tangible improvement in their play. For now, Ole can highlight defensive improvement and improved attacking with a full squad but the goals will have to come soon or the pressure will become immense. Fortunately he's also helped but the mediocrity of all but the top 2 as well as a dearth of manager options so the bar for staying around isn't as high as it might be otherwise.
If the results aren't there or it looks like we're spinning in place, I can't see him getting past this season. I do think he will be kept on even if we finish #6-8 so long as it looks like the team is developing. Even Woody can see that a shift to a young team means inevitably that results and performances will be inconsistent. I'd have no problem if we finished 8th if, at the end of the season, the u21 players are fully bedded in and we can point to tangible improvement in their play. For now, Ole can highlight defensive improvement and improved attacking with a full squad but the goals will have to come soon or the pressure will become immense. Fortunately he's also helped but the mediocrity of all but the top 2 as well as a dearth of manager options so the bar for staying around isn't as high as it might be otherwise.
Agreed entirely
Older fans will understand: get ready for a 73-86 era, pt II.
They've already fallen further than I was willing to accept, and I'm still here...
I might be mad but I honestly see us as relegation material
Relegation
We have many in our fan base who won’t admit coming 2nd in the league post SAF was a massive achievement.
They also believe that manager deserved the sack for complaining about being denied further reinforcement to continue the upward journey.
It seems to me that they believe it’s either win EPL/ECL or its failure. In that context, does it even matter where we end up?
They also believe that manager deserved the sack for complaining about being denied further reinforcement to continue the upward journey.
It seems to me that they believe it’s either win EPL/ECL or its failure. In that context, does it even matter where we end up?
That's why I'm annoyed when people start criticising United fans for what's happened to the club. What are we going to do? Sack Woodward? The same is true of every other club as well tbf.
How many steps back did City take?
How long did it take Juve to come back from relegation?
It's 100% down to the ownership. Therein lies our future
How long did it take Juve to come back from relegation?
It's 100% down to the ownership. Therein lies our future
That is in the hands of the board. We have an average net spend of less than 50M in the last two windows. Considering where we are and where we want to be, it's peanuts. The board gave a lesser manager a weaker squad and expect him to do what?
It's how these holier-than-thou, redder-than-redder people justify mediocrity. "knee jerk, plastics, meltdowners"
Let's do a Bury and rise from the ashes.
I hope we fall so far that I'm left as the only righteous top Red, stood at Old Trafford alone.
The Glazers are the problem but fans are doing nothing while they continue to destroy the club. Fans need to protests and boycott merchandise otherwise nothing will change. The Glazers are motivated by money and as long as the money keeps on coming there won't be any drastic changes. I know local fans get pissed off when overseas fans ask them to protests in games. Other fans can't you how to support the club but continued in-game protests are necessary to spark change. If I could afford I'd travel to Old Trafford to protest.
I know fans are pissed off but not mad enough collectively to protest or boycott merchandise sales. I can't imagine Real Madrid fans allowing this mess to go on for 6 years. Again I can't tell fans how to be fans but without proper protests & boycotts this will continue
I asked myself that this summer tbh. I realised im stuck with them regardless of how shit they become.
Fantastic post and the only way to get those wankers out of our club.
Just of curiosity, why are Man United fans so subservient and stoic? I sometimes see fans of other top teams who don't tolerate mediocrity but look at ours and wonder what really is the difference. Are we gonna forever believe that another Fergie will pop up from somewhere one day and have us be as dominant as we have been in the last 25 years or so? I live in Nigeria and I am so pissed off by the club and have refused to purchase a jersey since 2014. Imagine how furious I would have been if I invested my hard-earned money in season tickets to watch crap year in year out while the Glazers smile to the bank.
Out of curiosity again I wanna ask; are there any rules against protesting on match day? Are protesters going to be arrested or what? Why don't fans carry placards, banners, print shirts or come together en masse to stage a boycott and make the world media pick up on our useless owners? I really need to understand how you could SPEND SO MUCH MONEY on tickets and franchise and yet do absolutely nothing but fold hands and 'hope for the best on the stands'? Do you not feel cheated? Can't matchgoing fans at least freaking do something about all of this mess?
Ole can take us as low as he pleases. Championship, league 2, administration etc. He is a ex player and a club legend so I will never say a thing against him and to do otherwise would make me a plastic glory hunter melt who doesn't understand football. How dare anyone question him, you don't get the club and only real fans know its okay for Ole to take his time because 30 years ago people wanted SAF out 
. But I am righteous. It's Ole's wheel now, he will invoke the spirit of 99 and bring back the United Way 
. But I am righteous. It's Ole's wheel now, he will invoke the spirit of 99 and bring back the United Way This. The low in this era was unfortunately relegation - hopefully we wont go that low (although those thinking its impossible need to watch the last 4 games again). We are going to be trophy-less for a few seasons I think.
Through thick and thin, sickness and in health.
We hate Liverpool, for them it's never their fault. So We can't copy that, for us it's always our fault.
Lingard made clothing brand? our fault
Rashford forgot his boots and wears slippers? our fault
Ed Woodward looks like a balding leprechaun? our fault
Phil Jones mumbling sacked in the morning? our fault
I'm not saying that it had to happen and I don't believe it will , of course the game is not the same like it was the last time we got relegated but we should stop expecting miracles over night anymore.If you put statistics aside I think there are positives in the way the club is running compare to the previous managers but we have zero squad depth so by my opinion this is the area the manager and the board should start.
Parts of that were good, especially 75-77
Good question.
I think it’s quite taxing on a personal level to follow United these days. Personally, I would be okay with a fairly ‘destructive’ rebuild to use your terminology, but only if there is a real long term plan with professional, dedicated people in charge of it. Otherwise I feel like I’m being conned by Woodward and his cronies, who are thoroughly in charge of the club right now. I think Solskjaer and the people surrounding him care, and surely a lot of the ground level people feel the same way. But how far can you realistically go in a structure this constricting? Can we attract another top manager given the last six years of false dawns and consistent mediocrity? Will a man like Pochettino accept working within the framework of a Woodwardian Disneyland? People of that calibre always have other options.
That’s my biggest problem following United, and why I sometimes seriously consider, whether it’s worth it anymore. If the decision making is completely governed by a shallow commercialism, then why am I investing myself emotionally in this? Because it used to be a real football club? Because I hope the Glazers will sell some day, and then magically all will be well? Just look at the whole technical director debacle - it’s absurd. At this rate they’ll probably pick Rio or someone similar. Someone who will play along and play to the right market segments or whatever.
I can never support another football club the way I support United. So if at some point I feel like the balance tips too far, and there is no discernible football project anymore, I will probably watch the big European games and international tournaments. And that’s it. I’m not a match going fan, so my social life isn’t built around going home and away.
Maybe that’s almost an advantage these days. Sadly enough.
I think it’s quite taxing on a personal level to follow United these days. Personally, I would be okay with a fairly ‘destructive’ rebuild to use your terminology, but only if there is a real long term plan with professional, dedicated people in charge of it. Otherwise I feel like I’m being conned by Woodward and his cronies, who are thoroughly in charge of the club right now. I think Solskjaer and the people surrounding him care, and surely a lot of the ground level people feel the same way. But how far can you realistically go in a structure this constricting? Can we attract another top manager given the last six years of false dawns and consistent mediocrity? Will a man like Pochettino accept working within the framework of a Woodwardian Disneyland? People of that calibre always have other options.
That’s my biggest problem following United, and why I sometimes seriously consider, whether it’s worth it anymore. If the decision making is completely governed by a shallow commercialism, then why am I investing myself emotionally in this? Because it used to be a real football club? Because I hope the Glazers will sell some day, and then magically all will be well? Just look at the whole technical director debacle - it’s absurd. At this rate they’ll probably pick Rio or someone similar. Someone who will play along and play to the right market segments or whatever.
I can never support another football club the way I support United. So if at some point I feel like the balance tips too far, and there is no discernible football project anymore, I will probably watch the big European games and international tournaments. And that’s it. I’m not a match going fan, so my social life isn’t built around going home and away.
Maybe that’s almost an advantage these days. Sadly enough.
Jose's Chelsea flirted with a relegation battle in 15/16 and had much better players. They finished 10th that season.
Rather lick my own arse
I'll never not support United, but I do feel that if we ever dropped down a few leagues my interest in football would diminish more over time. I wouldn't be talking to friends and work colleagues about United every day, or visiting sites like this every day if we weren't at least in the Championship or something.
Until the Glazers get out of the club. Then, the fall will stop and we can start rebuilding and challenge again after some time.
If it takes 2 relegations for them to sell the club, then so be it.
If it takes 2 relegations for them to sell the club, then so be it.
Most teams still try because people will still get fired and players will either hit free agency or ask for a trade but it's true that if you are organically bad, it's best to let it go and potentially get a great player. Bear in mind that it's due to the closed league system, cap system and the need for a certain level of parity.
SAF worked relentlessly for 27 years and made United as big as they are today. To also make sure we were never knocked off our perch. It's like Woody and the Glazers have just spat in SAF's face and said feck your legacy, we don't care about winning. It pains me, to say the least . The second he walked out everything instantly went to sh!t, its almost like a deliberate sabotage by the board..
. The second he walked out everything instantly went to sh!t, its almost like a deliberate sabotage by the board..In some ways Ogs going won't be any real disaster as we don't have a style of play, and arguably noone would do worse than a run of 2 wins in 10 league games. That's shocking and only disguised a bit as it's across two seasons.
A new manager would at least benefit from the summer signings - those are in effect our only progress in the last 6months.
How to Chelsea manage it? They won the league in 2005, 2006, 2010, 2015, 2017.
They've been through loads of managers and lots of players, but sustained relative success with the odd really bad season.
I don't know the answer, but i don't becoming relegation fodder first is the answer. I think we're on the right tracks. This summer we got rid of a lot of dross. Where we failed was to recruit replacements. We wanted Sancho but didn't get him. We should have had a plan B. We should have got our plan B and then tried for Sancho next year. What was the worst that was going to happen? Too many good players? Players wanting to leave? Better than shit players who won't leave/we can't shift.
They've been through loads of managers and lots of players, but sustained relative success with the odd really bad season.
I don't know the answer, but i don't becoming relegation fodder first is the answer. I think we're on the right tracks. This summer we got rid of a lot of dross. Where we failed was to recruit replacements. We wanted Sancho but didn't get him. We should have had a plan B. We should have got our plan B and then tried for Sancho next year. What was the worst that was going to happen? Too many good players? Players wanting to leave? Better than shit players who won't leave/we can't shift.
I'd rather get relegated and come back stronger like Juventus than languish between 4th-6th for 15 years like Arsenal.
If we hire another counter attacking manager, then yes the summer signings would suit well. If we hire a possessionbased manager then both Maguire lack of mobility and AWB less than impressive attacking abilities are elements that the manager would have issues with.
Funny thing is, if we were relegated, I don't think this group of players and coaches has it in them to return to the Premier League, both emotionally and tactically.
Its not quite as simple as that, I think most people seen a tough patch for United when Fergie left, replacing the best club manager of all time was never going to be easy. The likely hood of finding another Fergie is basically zero, a guy who was emotionally evolved with your club who could also deliver at the highest level. That accompanied by the rise of City and Liverpool and us and the continued spending of Chelsea made the PL a much different place than the majority of the Fergie years has mad your transition difficult.SAF worked relentlessly for 27 years and made United as big as they are today. To also make sure we were never knocked off our perch. It's like Woody and the Glazers have just spat in SAF's face and said feck your legacy, we don't care about winning. It pains me, to say the least
IMO you should not have sacked Moyes so quickly despite how badly he started, that immediately put the mindset in place of "we expect immediate success". The fan base needs to stop looking for the next Ferguson, it wont happen.
It wasn't deliberate but predictable, things went exactly as I expected. When Moyes was appointed my intuition was that we would be irrelevant until at least 2021(I though that Moyes would be allowed to fail for a long time). The reason I thought that way is due to how the club had become SAF, we all love the man but it's a terrible way to run a football club, you cannot be based on a single man because when he leaves you are left with nothing and have build something from scratch.SAF worked relentlessly for 27 years and made United as big as they are today. To also make sure we were never knocked off our perch. It's like Woody and the Glazers have just spat in SAF's face and said feck your legacy, we don't care about winning. It pains me, to say the least
I mentioned it at the time but the Stade Toulousain who is the equivalent of United in Rugby and Guy Noves who is the equivalent of SAF experienced the exact same thing, Noves left Toulouse in 2015 and they became instantly bad. Now the difference is that Toulouse only needed one season to realize that it wasn't going to work and completely retooled the club, the president left, they brought a director of Rugby, retooled all the staffs within the club and modified the role of head coach, because Novès was a "manager" and had all powers at the club.
At the same time United is still trying the get the next SAF. That's on the board, they need to wake up and ignore sentimentalism.