Jesus christ this fecking argument again - after 1/4 of the season played. Where would you honestly put your money right now?
How far off is this squad from a title challenge?
- Thread starter jamesjimmybyrondean
- Start date
I believe more than a decade and could be longer due to the clubs vision be solely on money and not giving too shits about success. If they did they would have restructured long ago especially how far behind we see ourselves on both the football front and club front to many top clubs. Or until the Glazers by some miracle leave and an owner who has a vision, willingness to do whatever to succeed and a proper manager who has a style of football, the right players and the right leaders on the pitch. But this wont happen for a very long time, only way this will happen and the Owners leave is IF sponsorship withers which it will the less and less we perform on the pitch or compete due to the board/owners.
I’m not quite sure what is signalling the end of the Pep era? They’ve just qualified for the round of 16 in the UCL with an equalling record points tally in the group stages for any English club. They scored 13 goals and conceded just 1. Won 5 and drew 1. Lost 0 (obviously).
They have the second best defence in the PL based on goals conceded and seem to be on a current good run of form. Ok they’ve had a bit of a shaky start to the PL, but we had a fair few of those under Fergie and still went on many times to win the league. I’m not saying that means that City will, but Pep’s record speaks for itself. So it wouldn’t be unwise to assume they will finish in a good position. Could we beat them to the title though? Definitely. With an overhaul of coaching staff.
I agree with everything else you said though. I feel this season is one in which we could win the title with our current squad, but not with this current manager, as previously stated. No team looks particularly consistent at this moment, and I just can’t see Spurs continuing on this trajectory. I feel they’ll capitulate come Jan/Feb just as Arsenal did far too often under Wenger. Just before Christmas in many seasons, Arsenal would often look like they could win the league, then the wheels came off once the FA Cup and UCL started back up. Spurs don’t have the depth of squad to cope.
Unfortunately, we have a board who always act too late. Instead of changing things at a critical time when the season could be saved, they won’t pull the trigger until it’s impossible to salvage anything, i.e. top four unobtainable. An approach I will never understand. Why put yourself in a position where you have to spend a whole season unnecessarily out of the Champions League.
We are far away from a title winning squad but there have been times when not so great teams have gone on to win titles. It is all about hard work, passion and hunger. What worries me a lot is we do not have players who fit in any of the positions for the formations we play, instead we have converted other players to fit the positions. Rashford, Martial not wingers. Matic is not a player who fits well as part of a pivot nor does Fred, VDB or Pogba. Lucky for us, we have AWB, Shaw and Telles and appropriate positions and Williams to cover for AWB. We have Cavani for now but in the long run we need a proper number 9 and for me, it certainly is not Martial. Maguire and Lindelof partnership is not a strong one and lately Maguire has had a lot of problems in defense. De Gea was one of the best keepers for a long long time but his techniques have failed him a lot in the last couple of seasons. I don't for once think he's lost his place in this team because he is still really athletic and does what he's told but the evolution of keepers has had a huge raise and De Gea is not keeping up with it. The sweeper keeper analogy is not something that De Gea has as part of his arsenal. Henderson is one of the next generation keepers and I think it is time he is given the chance and De Gea has to go and do it somewhere else because I cannot watch him on the bench while somebody else gets to do what he loves. He'd be a great addition to teams in Italy or Germany. Last but not the least, we need to give Ole time because he is learning on the job but still has a long long way to go. He needs to work a lot with the players at Carrington and get a few things working well. Sadly I think we need a change in managers because Ole still needs to learn a lot before managing a club of this size.
That's exactly the case right now!
Dunno man. We don't have an elite striker. Our forwards are youngish and inconsistent. Our midfield is uncreative and we basically completely reliant on Bruno. Our defence isn't a secure unit with players almost dumped in together and not always supportive or communicating well. We got 65 odd points last year.
i don't expect to see United win the title in what time i have left, Sir Alex and before him, Sir Matt were the real winners, a couple of FA Cups would be nice though.
And we have an incompetent manager to boot.
In the current league circumstances, 15/18 is run away title winner form. I think 12/18 is contender form.
But yeah, our team could easily get 15/18 just as easily as it being 9/18!
There's no reason we couldn't this season tbh. We're not far off the top at all. That being said, I think some defensive solidity is the only thing really stopping us from giving it a right go.
DDG
AWB Lindelof Maguire Shaw
McT Fred
Mata Bruno Rashford
Martial
This is our line up against Everton 3-1 victory. Ask yourself which ones needed to be replaced for us to challenge the league. Once you know which one then ask yourself again, do we have the players in our squad who are ready to replace them for title challenger? If not then there your answer is. In my opinion we are 3 players away or at least 2 top class players away.AWB Lindelof Maguire Shaw
McT Fred
Mata Bruno Rashford
Martial
Our attackers level are still not on Kane, Son, Salah, Mane and prime Aguero level. And I don’t think we will ever win the league or European or cup comp with pair of Lindelof & Maguire. They don’t compliment each other.
Actually I would say :
- 1 top manager in Pochettino or Allegri
- Another 350 M€ to spend on 4 top players to improve the starting XI drastically such as :
- Sancho
- Koulibaly
- Zakaria
- Grealish
Just need a powerful fast CB to partner Maguire. Sancho would be awesome, but we can challenge just by sorting out the defence
That said, its also worth noting that defensive partnerships take awhile to establish so maybe, considering we're only a couple of points behind, we need to keep faith with Lindelof then buy big in summer
That said, its also worth noting that defensive partnerships take awhile to establish so maybe, considering we're only a couple of points behind, we need to keep faith with Lindelof then buy big in summer
This season requires squad depth more than any other.
I don’t think you have enough forward depth. Rashford, Martial, Cavani and a still inexperienced (but good) Greenwood.
- James isn’t up to scratch and Mata no longer has the legs to play as a winger.
An injury to Martial and you rely on someone in the twilight of their career in a season where games are coming every 3 days. Is he fit enough for that?
An injury to Rashford and your stuck with James who is still a championship level player. Worst case you bring in Lingard and he is clearly not wanted.
What’s more, you have tried Bruno as a false 9 and like us with Hazard, it negates all his primary skills and attributes. It might work against bad teams but it’s not going to cut it against the best where you want the best players in their best positions.
You all think you need defensive reinforcement but you actually need better forward depth. Cavani is just a plaster over the cracks.
I don’t think you have enough forward depth. Rashford, Martial, Cavani and a still inexperienced (but good) Greenwood.
- James isn’t up to scratch and Mata no longer has the legs to play as a winger.
An injury to Martial and you rely on someone in the twilight of their career in a season where games are coming every 3 days. Is he fit enough for that?
An injury to Rashford and your stuck with James who is still a championship level player. Worst case you bring in Lingard and he is clearly not wanted.
What’s more, you have tried Bruno as a false 9 and like us with Hazard, it negates all his primary skills and attributes. It might work against bad teams but it’s not going to cut it against the best where you want the best players in their best positions.
You all think you need defensive reinforcement but you actually need better forward depth. Cavani is just a plaster over the cracks.
To be really honest, i thought that the team with the lightswitch on vs RB Lipzeig was fabulous.. But Pogba needs to play in CM, his 1 touch passing and how he made time on the ball was unbelievable.. That team with Cavani and a RW would destroy the league
2 bodies away from a title challenge imo, a much better manager and a director of football in charge of future transfers and crazy contracts that we hand out . I think we have a very good squad as it is but a DM in the summer would be good, unless Garner is good enough to take the Carrick role.
@Foxbatt
Agree with what you said... Some fans gunning for Evans and Trippier and other bizarre threads reminds me of Liverpool pre-Klopp.
@Foxbatt
Agree with what you said... Some fans gunning for Evans and Trippier and other bizarre threads reminds me of Liverpool pre-Klopp.
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Personally I feel we're short in several positions currently.
We have very poor depth in forward positions. We need a specialist DM and an attacking RB. Probably require a new CB too to replace Lindelof.
I honestly don't think this squad is a million miles away from challenging for the league title.
We so need some quality additions, as some have mentioned above.
If we can find some consistency in terms of the starting 11 and formation (like we seemed to have last season post lockdown)
I think this squad could be capable enough to mount a serious title challenge.
I do not think we are able to do it this season though, unless we recruit well in the Winter Window?
Even if Liverpool & Man City don't seem to be getting the rub of the green recently.
We so need some quality additions, as some have mentioned above.
If we can find some consistency in terms of the starting 11 and formation (like we seemed to have last season post lockdown)
I think this squad could be capable enough to mount a serious title challenge.
I do not think we are able to do it this season though, unless we recruit well in the Winter Window?
Even if Liverpool & Man City don't seem to be getting the rub of the green recently.
Then one to replace Maguire soon after that.
Does anyone realise that this sounds exactly Liverpool when saf was our manager? They say exactly the same things.
I'd like to see Maguire with Henderson in goal first before writing him off.
Honestly, with a good coach I think we're close.
We should be around the level Liverpool were prior to the window they signed Alisson, Fabinho and Keita - essentially they were playing good football, were bedded into Klopp's style but needed one or two specific players to go from being good to great. Our team would kill for a Fabinho type DM signing and finding a RW, otherwise I think it's just about getting the most out of the players we have because the quality is so evident, it's just not consistently seen.
We should be around the level Liverpool were prior to the window they signed Alisson, Fabinho and Keita - essentially they were playing good football, were bedded into Klopp's style but needed one or two specific players to go from being good to great. Our team would kill for a Fabinho type DM signing and finding a RW, otherwise I think it's just about getting the most out of the players we have because the quality is so evident, it's just not consistently seen.
No shit, thats because our recruitment has been piss poor for years and thus our quality in the squad is relatively poor. We've done better recently, but it's going to take time and money to recover from two Managers that failed epicly with their transfers. When Pogba leaves either in January or the Summer, we'll have the following players remaining from Jose's transfers: Bailly, Lindelof, Fred, Matic and Dalot. Hardly an inspiring list given he spent a disgusting amount of money.
It's not even on Jose as ultimately we should have got a Director of Football years and years ago.
To win the title you need to be consistent.
You can't be consistent with inconsistent players.
How many of our players can you honestly say you trust to perform from one week to the next? Bruno. Anyone else?
We're miles off. We might only be 5 points off top now, but it'll be a huge margin come what May.
You can't be consistent with inconsistent players.
How many of our players can you honestly say you trust to perform from one week to the next? Bruno. Anyone else?
We're miles off. We might only be 5 points off top now, but it'll be a huge margin come what May.
A striker, right winger, centre back, central midfielder and both full back positions.
To be honest, could get away with AWB, Shaw ans Telles in the PL, and the right winger doesn't have to be world class.
The spine of the squad needs to be much stronger though. As decent as McTominay and Fred are in midfield, Bruno is covering their glaring lack of creativity from midfield for me.
Striker needs no explanation. Martial can't be relied upon, and Greenwood is still too raw.
To be honest, could get away with AWB, Shaw ans Telles in the PL, and the right winger doesn't have to be world class.
The spine of the squad needs to be much stronger though. As decent as McTominay and Fred are in midfield, Bruno is covering their glaring lack of creativity from midfield for me.
Striker needs no explanation. Martial can't be relied upon, and Greenwood is still too raw.
It's ready. We can challenge this year.
We're nearly there then?
We need a top class coach to get the best out of players.
The best managers win leagues. Look at the calibre of managers who have won the EPL. We haven't got one of those.
Until we bring in a manager under a board who is fully committed to ensuring success on the pitch above anything else, we won't be competing.
Until we bring in a manager under a board who is fully committed to ensuring success on the pitch above anything else, we won't be competing.
If we'd have got Sancho I'd have certainly expected a title challenge so one maybe two players.
People always answer these questions as if other teams will never regress. You don't need a world class squad to win the league you just need one capable of a very good season when others have average seasons.
Even under Sir Alex we had people moaning that we'd never win with X in the team, he proved it wrong repeatedly.
People always answer these questions as if other teams will never regress. You don't need a world class squad to win the league you just need one capable of a very good season when others have average seasons.
Even under Sir Alex we had people moaning that we'd never win with X in the team, he proved it wrong repeatedly.
centre back a must,
Proper midfielder, but is there any about these days,
Striker, who???
If no striker right forward defo, one or the other think we could win It.
No chance we will invest in that as we missed the big targets that window.
Proper midfielder, but is there any about these days,
Striker, who???
If no striker right forward defo, one or the other think we could win It.
No chance we will invest in that as we missed the big targets that window.
Without Ole I really believe we'd be challenging for the title this season. Having such an incompetent manager has cost us so many games already. I'm so surprised we're only 5 points off Spurs, with a game in hand not to mention. Imagine if we had a good manager, we'd be sitting 1st right now.
Every team's dropping points this season, we are more than capable of competing.
Every team's dropping points this season, we are more than capable of competing.
100% been saying this for months that the fanbase is turning into what it gave stick to Liverpool fans for for years! Clutching on to our achievments from yesteryear. Clamouring for what we once had in a time where football was vastly different.
Only reason we went on that win streak back end of last season was because of Bruno playing like Messi.
Ole has put in some good performances (2-1 win vs PSG for example) but if you can't see he's a dreadful manager then I don't know what to tell you.
Hah, maybe I'm being a bit over the top.We're nearly there then?
But honestly though, I just can't see us winning the league with a CB partnership of Lindelof and Maguire, a midfield pairing of Fred and McTominay, and Martial front, and no right wing.
I think we could get relatively close, relying on the individual brilliance of the likes of Rashford, Bruno and Cavani, but can we bridge that gap?
I look at the spine of the squad and at every level it's lacking something. Our strikers lack that ruthless streak, our central midfielders lack quality on the ball, and our centre back pairing just don't fill you with confidence do they.
Looks at Liverpool, I bet they thought they were close when they had Suarez. That player who can win you games is great to have, Suarez is comparable to Bruno for us. But in reality, it's the players like Alisson, VVD and Fabinho that took then to the next level, and gave their attack a platform to win games. Suarez, Sterling and Sturridge had Mingolet, Sakho, Toure, Moreno, Can and a host of other average players in the team.
You can't rely on individual brilliance to win you a league title. A cup here and there? Absolutely.
In order of importance:
1-. A new manager with a proper coaching staff
2-. A proper right winger
3-. A proper b2b midfielder
4-. A striker
1-. A new manager with a proper coaching staff
2-. A proper right winger
3-. A proper b2b midfielder
4-. A striker
The squad has the basis of a top 4 side.
But that means nothing if they continue to be so inconsistent, both of performance and results.
And until Ole understands the cause of the inconsistency and overcomes it, we will not challenge anything.
To my mind, the first thing that needs to be done is to make United hard to score against and difficult to beat. That means tightening up the defence. Keeping clean sheets on a consistent basis.
Success breeds success and success breeds confidence.
And if he is good enough to be the United manager, he really should know how to do that.
But that means nothing if they continue to be so inconsistent, both of performance and results.
And until Ole understands the cause of the inconsistency and overcomes it, we will not challenge anything.
To my mind, the first thing that needs to be done is to make United hard to score against and difficult to beat. That means tightening up the defence. Keeping clean sheets on a consistent basis.
Success breeds success and success breeds confidence.
And if he is good enough to be the United manager, he really should know how to do that.
If we didnt have Ole then we might not even be in a position to challenge anyway. If we are going to use words such as 'incompetent' to describe him, then surely its important that we balance that out by also giving him the credit he deserves for building this squad, no? Go back and look at the money spent, and how it was spent, before him to help you realise how that is not automatically going to happen.