How good was Prime Shevchenko?

Hound Dog said:
Galileo was not burned.
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This is one of those weird Streisand effect things for me because I was sure he was tortured and burned to death but apparently he was simply imprisoned indefinitely until he died. I guess the equivalent of being banned from posting anywhere except on the caf so I'm sure he went quite mad

@Dwight Corke saved me some trouble. I'd add Eto'o while I can remember, it was entertaining me for a while trying to think of these legends but I've had enough now :lol:
 
World class between 1998 (CL hat trick at Camp Nou in that excellent Kiev team) and up to about 2005 with Milan.

I'm pretty sure he got a bad injury about 12 months or so before he moved to Chelsea so whether that took the edge off his game I don't know but yes big disappointment at Chelsea, reminded me of them signing Higuain a few years back.

Ironically Meeelan had Sheva and Crespo ripping Liverpool apart for first hour in 2005 final, Chelsea signed Crespo who struggled to settle, sent him back to Milan in the deal that brough Shevcenko to England....and then he himself went back to Milan on loan in 08/09.

Being unused sub in CL final when he could've taken a penalty pretty much said it all for his time at Chelsea.
 
GazTheLegend said:
Galileo once told the Pope that the rest of the universe did not, in fact, revolve around the Earth as was accepted fact at the time. He was made to admit that his astrological findings (the Earth revolving around the sun) were wrong under oath, faced the inquisition, and was burned to death for his hereticism.

He was, as it turns out, completely and utterly correct, and it was the powers that be who simply wanted people to remain stupid and ignorant. Should one just accept being burned to death on Redcafe simply because people can't accept that there were many, many (many) better players than Andriy Shevchenko, or should he be silenced forever and reduced as a person for knowing that his superior footballing ken should go unheeded and their inferior inflated ego's should not be shattered? You decide...
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Burning Mandela affect aside, you have totally won me over with this post. I stand with Gaz the Legend
 
GifLord said:
How could you not rate Raul? He even scored a few bangers against us in the early 00s
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Maybe it has something to do with the fact that he's not the most classic #9 you could think of.
Somewhat similar to Rooney... some of the magic they performed wasn't inside of the box, 5 meters from the oppo's goal.

Edit: went to watch a compilation of his on Youtube... some of the goals he scored, my oh my.
Also makes me think the Rooney comparison isn't that accurate. Seems to have played closer to goal than I remembered.
 
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He was typical case of "top scorer = best player" hype. He was a good striker but not AC Milan's best footballer.
 
If he was sold at his peak he would have broken the world record fee. Nuff said.
 
At his peak he was the best striker in the world, and he was close to that level for at least 5 seasons. Talk of him not even being in the top 100 is crazy, I'd struggle to name 50 world class strikers and I've been watching football since 1990... Shevchenko fits even the harshest "world class" definition.
 
I liked him a lot watching Serie A, was immense up front. Sometimes it just seemed like if you managed to send the ball his way roughly he'd do the hard work and find a shot or header to score somehow.
 
He is undoubtedly one of the best strikers of the 2000s. A fast, hardworking, had amazing acceleration and could strike both feet on the ball. He was a well-rounded striker on his own for sure. His link-up play was on a fine level. He was capable of playing and linking up with his teammates. From 1998-2006, he was a consistent striker who performed well in almost every competition. However, even during his peak form, he had a disappointing league campaign with Milan in the 2002-2003 season. His versatility is a bit underrated since he could operate from the left-wing area, and often roam everywhere in the front line. He showed this ability at Dynamo in the late 1990s when he was younger.

His playing style and physical attributes fit well in this modern era. He would dominate today's game like he had done 20 years ago. He had some tremendously powerful shots too.
 
Some of you are also forgetting he managed to score goals for fun playing in that mediocre Milan team of the late 90s an early 00s (Zaccheroni & Terim era)
 
He was sensational. As someone who only started understanding football in the late 1990, the likes of Shevchenko, Thuram and Nedvěd were the ones I really wished we had signed to reinforce the treble winning team. The perfect Fergie forward, all things considered — like a modern day Denis Law; two-footed and could score a multitude of goals (in all sorts of ways), a dynamic and smart player with extraordinary movement, relentless and expended a lot of energy on the pitch, great through the middle channel and could also effectively peel outside as a wing forward (unlike a rigid conventional marksman), and so on. Proven in the finest defensive league of the era, too — against Nesta (when he was at Lazio), Thuram, Cannavaro, Zanetti, Cafú (when he was at Roma), Ferrara, Buffon, Montero, Aldair, Córdoba, Toldo, as well as as tacticians like Lippi, Capello et cetera.

There's a threefold issue with how he is perceived at times...
  • A lot of casual football watchers became familiarized with him around the 2003 Champions League final (as he famously converted the decisive penalty during shootouts); and while he was really good in the period of time that followed, you could reasonably argue that Shevchenko's swashbuckling best was already delivered in the late 1990s and at the turn of the millennium, split between Dynamo Kyiv (with whom he terrorized several European heavyweights) and the early goings at Milan.
  • In an era where national team football was a major point of reference (compared with now, where the best football is almost exclusively played at club level), him representing a relatively weak team like Ukraine diluted his public standing.
  • The meteoric rise of Ricardo Kaká was juxtaposed with the slow and then rapid decline of Andriy Shevchenko (who was upstaged as the top dog), and the move to Chelsea (followed by the ignominious loan back to Milan) proved to be the nail in his coffin as a top performer. For some, that would be the lasting memory of him as a player.
If we had to rank the definitive central-ish forwards of the last 25 years or so at the peak of their powers (excluding Fenômeno as he skews perspectives, and active players who are still quite young), he would be pretty close to the top — alongside or slightly behind Luis Suárez, Karim Benzema, Thierry Henry, Robert Lewandowski, Gabriel Batistuta, David Villa, Samuel Eto'o and a couple others.
 
GazTheLegend said:
Well the main reason they don't discuss him when they talk about the best strikers of the past 30 years is because he wasn't one, he'd struggle to break the top 100
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Absolute load of rubbish. Tell me you never watcher that Milan team without saying it. A team full of stars, and somehow Sheva was considered by many their main man
 
GazTheLegend said:
Well the main reason they don't discuss him when they talk about the best strikers of the past 30 years is because he wasn't one, he'd struggle to break the top 100
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Name 100 strikers in history better than Shevchenko.
 
mshnsh said:
He was typical case of "top scorer = best player" hype. He was a good striker but not AC Milan's best footballer.
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Really? I don’t think he was that at all. He was a complete player, would drop back into midfield, go past players, very good touch and finisher. He was Milan’s best player by a distance.
 
Invictus said:
He was sensational. As someone who only started understanding football in the late 1990, the likes of Shevchenko, Thuram and Nedvěd were the ones I really wished we had signed to reinforce the treble winning team. The perfect Fergie forward, all things considered — like a modern day Denis Law; two-footed and could score a multitude of goals (in all sorts of ways), a dynamic and smart player with extraordinary movement, relentless and expended a lot of energy on the pitch, great through the middle channel and could also effectively peel outside as a wing forward (unlike a rigid conventional marksman), and so on. Proven in the finest defensive league of the era, too — against Nesta (when he was at Lazio), Thuram, Cannavaro, Zanetti, Cafú (when he was at Roma), Ferrara, Buffon, Montero, Aldair, Córdoba, Toldo et cetera.

There's a threefold issue with how he is perceived at times...
  • A lot of casual football watchers became familiarized with him around the 2003 Champions League final (as he famously converted the decisive penalty during shootouts); and while he was really good in the period of time that followed, you could reasonably argue that Shevchenko's swashbuckling best was already delivered in the late 1990s and at the turn of the millennium, split between Dynamo Kyiv (with whom he terrorized several European heavyweights) and the early goings at Milan.
  • In an era where national team football was a major point of reference (compared with now, where the best football is almost exclusively played at club level), him representing a relatively weak team like Ukraine diluted his public standing.
  • The meteoric rise of Ricardo Kaká was juxtaposed with the slow and then rapid decline of Andriy Shevchenko (who was upstaged as the top dog), and the move to Chelsea (followed by the ignominious loan back to Milan) proved to be the nail in his coffin as a top performer. For some, that would be the lasting memory of him as a player.
If we had to rank the definitive central-ish forwards of the last 25 years or so at the peak of their powers (excluding Fenômeno as he skews perspectives, and active players who are still quite young), he would be pretty close to the top — alongside or slightly behind Luis Suárez, Karim Benzema, Thierry Henry, Robert Lewandowski, Gabriel Batistuta, David Villa, Samuel Eto'o and a couple others.
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Agree with all of this, and in that list, I’d probably put peak Suarez and possibly Henry ahead of him, with peak Shevchenko second/third. For me, he had a bit more range than the rest of the forwards in that list as he could pick the ball up anywhere on the pitch, go past players, and break clear of the defensive line (often all in the same move). I don’t think there’s a team he wouldn’t walk into right now.
 
GazTheLegend said:
This is one of those weird Streisand effect things for me because I was sure he was tortured and burned to death but apparently he was simply imprisoned indefinitely until he died. I guess the equivalent of being banned from posting anywhere except on the caf so I'm sure he went quite mad

@Dwight Corke saved me some trouble. I'd add Eto'o while I can remember, it was entertaining me for a while trying to think of these legends but I've had enough now :lol:
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It's the Mandela effect.
 
Rocksy said:
Really? I don’t think he was that at all. He was a complete player, would drop back into midfield, go past players, very good touch and finisher. He was Milan’s best player by a distance.
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No I'm sorry Maldini was pretty much Milan's best player from start to end of his career. Cafu also incredible but obviously many of their players came and/or went during Shevchenko's time so not too many to compare to him across the period. Seedorf for example was an amazing player but only joined in 2002.
 
On his decline: he's had trouble with his knee that eventually needed operated on before the start of the 2002-03. He then had a bad season when he came back around November, and there were worries he had lost it physically, but he made a great comeback over the next seasons. Then he re-injured it near the end of 2005/06. Possibly came back too early and aggravated things for Ukraine's first World Cup appearance, where he didn't look fit at all.

I'd say it was the physical decline that was the main problem, though it was definitely surprising that such a technically-sound forward, that read the game very well, couldn't adapt better for another 2-3 good seasons as a less complete forward.
 
In his prime, he was better than Ruud, Cantona, Raul and is around prime Henry’s level. Absolute monster of a forward
 
GazTheLegend said:
@TMDaines

Because unlike 99% of people here, I can remember back 30 years. Most of you lot seem to think football began in 2004 or something. And I can think of 100 strikers that are easily better. I'll start with 10:
Eric Cantona, Romario, Brazilian Ronaldo, Batistuta, van Basten, Henry, Rooney, Del Piero, Raul, Shearer. That's not even including the GOAT's. I'd have ANY of them ahead of Shevchenko.
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You have 90 to go
 
I loved watching him play. Pacey, good close control and clinical finishing. He reminded me of a more industrious Thierry Henry in a sense he was just as comfortable attacking from wide areas as he was from the centre of the pitch...

Dynamo Kyiv and early Milan days he was undoubtedy a world class forward. He was on my wish list after we won the Treble...but he was always destined for Serie A.

I remember watching Dynamo Kyiv games in the Champions League games (that hat-trick at the Nou Camp) and recall him forming a world class almost-telepathic strike partnership with Sergei Rebrov.
Only Yorke and Cole were better than them during that 1998/99 season.
 
ScholesyTheWise said:
Are these names better than Suarez? Lewandowski?

recency bias vs nostalgia, take 12491241230459.
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Absolutely not. These two have amazing goal tallies in every league, cup competition they played(with the exception of Suarez in the UCL) for club and country every year of their career. Both very different style of CFs and yet both very complete and Excel at numerous parts of the game. One of them is still going at it at the highest level while the other is doing well in Brazil which is an underrated league.
 
Was insanely good with Kiev in that CL run in. It's interesting that he and Rebrov flopped hard in Premier League.
 
Sky1981 said:
As if Henry and Ruud has no prime of themselves.
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Not sure about your passive aggressive but whatever. Prime Henry is about the same level as Prime Shev, Prime Ruud is a level below
 
Not good enough for 'arry, and he signed Marco Boogers so Sheva must have been awful. Shite-chenko more like...
 
Did really well in Italy but could not produce the same form in the Premier League....surprise, surprise.
 
I think some comparisons that are made with other strikers in this thread for him aren't quite appropriate. Ruud and Shev for instance were very different types of forwards. If you're going to compare him than the likes of a Henry or even a prime RvP feel more fitting to me (as some did already say). Less of a traditional center forward, more playing from the sides and constant motion. In a way he was one of the first modern false 9s to me, not an outright striker. But absolutely underrated in the pantheon of greats - in part because he is not from one of the traditional power house countries, and second probably because of his sudden departure from an active career.
 
Sky1981 said:
Simply saying that "at their prime" should be compared to other prime as well.

And it's not passive agressive. Just saying that prime Henry and prime Ruud isnt bellow Sheva.
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The original post did mention prime Henry, and fhat they are on the same level, so not sure what are you on.
To me, prime Ruud is below prime Shev and Henry but it is ok to think otherwise
 
Bondi77 said:
Did really well in Italy but could not produce the same form in the Premier League....surprise, surprise.
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Nah, he already started to decline physically by the time he left Milan. they were happy to sell if memory serves me right.
A bit like Torres and Liverpool. or Bayern with Schweinie.
 
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