How good was Romario who Had Sex On A Plane And claimed to be Better Than Pele?

devaneios

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It would be so nice if people didn't bring political sickness to every discussion, especially when they don't know shit about the country they're talking about.

"Fascist sympathizer", the kind of shit you have to read.

Also, this stupid racial obsession isn't a thing in Brazil(maybe between some artists or twitter profiles that import this shit from America, but definitely not among people).
 

Righteous Steps

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It would be so nice if people didn't bring political sickness to every discussion, especially when they don't know shit about the country they're talking about.

"Fascist sympathizer", the kind of shit you have to read.

Also, this stupid racial obsession isn't a thing in Brazil(maybe between some artists or twitter profiles that import this shit from America, but definitely not among people).
I’ve heard many Brazilians and others in Latin American countries make implications Brazil being a post racial society, laughable, racism is not an import of America and it affects people all over the world even if some are blind to it.
 

Chesterlestreet

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Depends who you compare him with.

If you compare him with 99,9% of all strikers in history, he was pretty good.

And by pretty good, I mean insanely good.
 

heraklion

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What a partnership he had at Barca with Stoichkov..

Amazing WC performance, highly favored to win that CL final against Milan the same year in 1994 as well, and just got destroyed. I remember how shocking Barca was that day, just could not find any solution to Desailly, Albertini and co. unable to create any chances.

Regardless, he was the star of the WC along with Baggio in the WC, brought the WC to Brazil after 24 years.
 

cafecillos

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He may be a bit underrated when talking about the very best ever, probably because his peak was relatively short, but he was absolutely not better than peak R9. I don't even know how that can be argued, other than under some very, very subjective stylistic/aesthetic preferences. Peak R9 was Messi/CR tier and Romario never was.
 
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It would be so nice if people didn't bring political sickness to every discussion, especially when they don't know shit about the country they're talking about.

"Fascist sympathizer", the kind of shit you have to read.

Also, this stupid racial obsession isn't a thing in Brazil(maybe between some artists or twitter profiles that import this shit from America, but definitely not among people).
Hear hear
 

Suedesi

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Incredible player, superb dribbling ability and a lower center of gravity which made him hard to shake him off the ball. Very good, instinctive finisher. Kind of guy that would turn the match, if he was bothered.
 

Jeffthered

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Awesome player. I have never seen a better forward in front of goal. Never. Calm, supremely confident, absolutely clinical, intelligent, streetwise, brave and so, so, so skillful. Scored bucket loads (took us apart with Stoichkov at the Nou Camp)

A ridiculously gifted player. Stocky and rapid over those crucial 10/15 yards. I recall him playing for PSV and mishandling Baresi before slamming the ball into the net. Awesome. He didn't respect any defender, none.

He knew he was a great forward and defenders couldn't cope with him. Wasn't a force of nature, like Ronaldo.. but what a player. Robbie Fowler had a similar game. Technically astonishing in front of goal. Brilliant. Took Brazil to 1994 WC glory.

But not better than Pele.
 

#07

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Killer in front of goal. One of those classic 90s strikers that just aren't produced in academies these days. To this day I can't think of him without thinking of Gary Walsh! :lol:
 

Andrade

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Had a long career but much of it in Europe, scored a shit to of goals too

Flat track bully or underrated?
Definitely underrated. He was a brilliant maverick genius. But not better than Pele. No player has ever been better than Pele. He could do everything that the top guys (Messi, Maradona etc ) could do and also things they couldn't do. And that goes for Romario too, great though he was.
 

Gehrman

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Like, he was great but that era just had players who while good, weren't transcendent across eras.
I thought you meant weird like if he he picked his nose excessively or walked around in public wearing robe whilst sporting a pipe and flashed himself to random strangers.
 
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Demyanenko_square_jaw

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Like, he was great but that era just had players who while good, weren't transcendent across eras.
I'm guessing we're talking about roughly 1990-1996 here?

Maybe not the sort of names casual (or not interested in any football before their time) fans in their teens/twenties are likely to know too well, but it did have plenty of players recognised as greats of their positions and countries.

I don't think it was any weaker in that respect than the late 90s to mid 00s Ronaldo/Zidane time even if some of the bigger names like Romario, Baggio and Laudrup ended up lacking that x factor (like a world cup/CL win or missing too many big tournaments through injury/other issues) that had made a player like Zidane be more enduringly famous.

Incidentally, i don't think Zidane would have fared as well if his prime had been late 80s-mid 90s pre-Bosman. France in a transitional between generations stage with an unqualified manager like Platini holding them back from making it a quick process. Strict foreign rule that had seen many clubs be ruthless with inconsistent/lazy genius types that like to take games off, those slow to adapt to new leagues, or any foreigner that had even one mediocre/average season; Serie A being particularly cutthroat. Internationally having to compete with immediately succeeding the notably more productive Platini. Not saying he wouldn't still have a great career, but it would be a more challenging time to replicate as many successes as he had in the late 90s-early 00s.
 

ROFLUTION

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The biggest downfall for Romario from the Western POV, was Ronaldo. Romario, alongside Baggio was the absolute darling of the 90's until around 1996 or so. His performances for Barcelona and Brazil revered and his languid style earning him plaudits. Ronaldo's video game football created a paradigm shift - much like Messi and C.Ronaldo's did a decade later - in that every striker was then viewed through the lens of this comical forward who could run through teams by himself. Ronaldo-mania left every other player in its wake and what was once seen as impressive became a lot less so as the world waited with baited breath to observe Ronaldo's next cartoonish feat.

In Brazil, it's a different story. Romario never lost his standing or had it shifted because of Ronaldo there, and is actually seen as the better of the two by some there as they appreciated the fact he wasn't some superhuman a lot more, and also 'got' him more than a Western audience did. Romario was, and is, a darling of the public in Brazil, more readily, or easily embraced than Ronaldo. Perhaps because Romario spent a lot more time in Brazil in various stages of his career to create that affinity, but also for being his own man, and so cocky and outspoken, as opposed to Ronaldo's relative silence and preference to let his football speak for him. The romance of the pairing was growing on both the home and international stage in 1997, at which point the Ro-Ro show was in full swing, with both playing football that was out of this world, and more importantly, complementary to one another. Scolari robbed the world of what might have been the best strike partnership there has been, and based off how they performed in 1997, it's hard to refute that, especially so, knowing Romario was already a World Cup star, and Ronaldo went on to prove what he could do in the World Cup, in isolation, and outside of his absurd levels at Barcelona.

Romario himself is easily one of the greatest strikers to have lived. Through the modern lens, where Europe and the CL is literally everything, the statement might make less sense, but the only tangible Romario lacks in that sense, is complete and utter non-conformity to the Western ideals - put him on a pitch, and he was golden.

If you're putting together the most elite chain of strikers for the 90's, it goes: Van Basten> Romario>Ronaldo, so Romario is always part and parcel of the history of the greatest strikers of an era.
Perfectly written post, thank you.
 

youngrell

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He’s widely regarded as being in the very top tier of the greatest strikers of all time, so definitely not underrated. Perhaps get a little forgotten on times, but his peak was a long time ago now so not surprising.

Can’t think of any other player who had his level of calmness in the box, unreal composure and finishing ability.
 

jesperjaap

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He may be a bit underrated when talking about the very best ever, probably because his peak was relatively short, but he was absolutely not better than peak R9. I don't even know how that can be argued, other than under some very, very subjective stylistic/aesthetic preferences. Peak R9 was Messi/CR tier and Romario never was.
Dont think you can really compare him with Messi as a different position and Cristiano Ronaldo spent a lot of his career ot wide too. Wold agree he wasnt on the level of ROnaldo of Brazil but then again we didnt see enough of him in Europe. His partnership with Stocihkov was so short lived but one of the best I have seen.

In my lifetime thogh....I would say he is possibly and probably the best box player I have ever seen, the ability to twist and turn and jst make a yard of space and calmly finish was out of this world.
 

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I think there are some distinctions to be made about Romario that typically get glossed over or lost with the passage of time:

- I'd put him down as the most accurate finisher there has been. By that, I mean he left keepers with no chance of saving his shots more frequently than any striker I've seen. He was famed for his ability to hit the inside of the uprights and have the ball end up as far away from the keeper's clutches as it was possible to be. The finesse with his finishing - not just the fact he was scoring a lot - always separated him from the pack. He didn't just score, he put the dot on the i or the cross through the t to make it definitive.

- he had signature shots that no other striker has replicated to the point it was intrinsic to their game. If you were making a video game, you can do a layer of one skin and set of moves over a host of strikers because most strikers have a similar technique that has been taught to them since childhood. Romario broke all the rules of what you're supposed to do, or what is taught out of children to hone "proper" technique, and would need his own 3D model to really be replicated in a game. His infamous toe-poke shooting as well as stab-shot were a fabric of his game. The toe poke meant he gave no "tell" to his shot because he had it as part of his shot-selection repertoire. What this actually means is that whilst in full flow, Romario took shots without even breaking stride, so no chambering of the foot (drawing back); no shaping or telegraphing of the foot (wrap around etc.), and no adjustment to his stance whatsoever. This gave keepers no time to set themselves to even make an attempt to save, so combined with the first point of him finishing as far away from the keeper as humanly possible, he also left them flat-footed and often unable to even feign an attempt to save. His stab-shot also completely ruined CB's because, similar to the keepers with the toe poke finish, Romario would stab at the ball with the leg that was already off the ground and take shots in a manner that CB's could barely process, let alone truly react to. It's in these nuances, that he has a bespoke artistry to his finishing that genuinely sets him apart from everyone else. If other strikers did these things, it might be a few in a career, not a given on any play they felt like it.

- in line with the above, once Romario had CB's and GK's conditioned to his unpredictability, he would add even more party tricks to his approach play. The problem with someone who can shoot without any tells whatsoever is you've got to be on red alert the whole time they are on the ball. There doesn't come a 'this is my moment' nor a point where you're settled and comfortable. Romario knew and thrived in the fear his shooting created and added dribbling twists and turns as well as a penchant for slowing the play, only to burst away from markers with what I think is universally agreed upon top percentile acceleration in the history of the recorded game. Over the first 5-10 yards, Romario is the barometer for fastest amongst strikers, if not football itself. He was only 5'6" tall; CB's, more often than not where north of 6'; they had no chance whatsoever of matching him step for step, and both parties knew it, which led to some very comical and humiliating goals - Romario was famous for making CB's look silly - not often by going on ridiculous full-pitch runs, ala Ronaldo, but by sleight of foot, acceleration, ridiculous close control and the aforementioned shot accuracy as well as the array of unpredictable finishes.


- Height is supposed to be problematic once a player is supposedly too short, but Romario is one of those players who weaponised how short he was. He made mannequins out of tall markers - on set pieces, he could look disinterested in a play and totally non-threatening, but in the blink of an eye, he'd have cut across his marker to the point of taking him out of the game, and connected perfectly with any kind of ball into him, be it aerially at head height, mid-height or along the floor. I mention height here, because Romario often 'stole' yards on others with his low centre of gravity, tiny stride pattern and the way he would devour ground before taller players could even get their feet set.

- Technical excellence. Romario is never talked about as one of the foremost technicians in the history of Brazil or the sport. For some strange reason, his brilliance has been erased from the timeline, yet he is pound-for-pound probably the most technically excellent striker there has been. Others beat him at specific things, but for full and complete skillset, Romario has everything. In abundance: Dribbling, pace, acceleration, heading, combination play, endless amount of finishing techniques - there is nothing he comes up short in, no need for hyperbole; his level of technical excellence is no less than a Zico, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo or anyone else. To that end, a compilation can't even do him justice, but it can give a snapshot of a huge array of skills, tricks, finishes and competences in every aspect of forward play. Romario and Baggio were the sorcerer supremes of the 90's before Ronaldo and Zidane came along. The baton didn't improve with the latter two; it just got handed over.


- Because of his technique, the speed the ball was coming at him would be recompensed toward goal - if the ball needed cushioning or a deft redirection, he was on that, if needed blasting; he was on that. Similar to Law, Van Basten and Muller, Romario had such a vast array of finishes that he can only be categorised in the elite tier of strikers to have played football. There was no type of finish that was foreign to him or that he was incapable of.


- Strength and centre of gravity. Romario was as strong as an ox (a baby one, but an ox nonetheless) and had the kind of balance typified in a Maradona or Messi i.e. he could not be knocked off the ball or dispossessed by fair means 99% of the time. From most of what has been written, a simple solution to negate most of it would be to get touch-tight and just manhandle the player, but that was suicidal against Romario, as he would roll a man with ease, and with his low centre of gravity allied to such strength, over-committal to the tackle or body check would just leave the CB looking like a fool. Unless the CB had a similar low centre of gravity, it was folly to engage in this manner. Romario's cunning also meant he'd use the body on him to blindside the keeper.

- Positioning. Underneath all the skill, trickery and brilliance, there was a raw, fundamentally exceptional centre-forward who had, again, some of the most exceptional positioning you can expect to see in a striker. The younger iterations of such a player are so resplendent with bedazzling talent, that the raw predator can get put to the wayside, but at his core, Romario was an immaculate centre-forward in terms of finding space and being ready to pounce with the most minimal of fuss. When athleticism is so tilted, the more droll stuff can be swept up and washed away, but as he aged - and I mean hitting his late 30's - and his athletic advantages became more normalised, Romario's pure striking instincts and positioning kept the goals flowing and ensured he remained highly potent. I think Messi again becomes a good comparison in terms of how both were so languid in and towards the box, but constantly found themselves in positions to score with, what seems like, minimal effort. Romario was nearly always in the right place to score and it was very clear it wasn't just him being athletically gifted that got him to the top of the striking game. It's usually between he and Gerd Muller for best 6-yard striker, and for very good reason. Gerd is the foremost, for my money, but to even be in that discussion, on top of being such a skilful player, gives a clear framing of how brilliant a player Romario was.

- Intelligence and link-up play. Again, there's nowhere to put him but in the tier of most intelligent strikers that have played. Romario was sharp as a tack. His deceptive and casual nonchalance betrayed the supercomputer in his head that meant only all-time great CB's could actually match his guile and cunning. Romario's art of deception was Machiavellian he would get reads on opponents and situations quicker than everyone else, which meant he exploited situations before others realised they were actually in a situation. This meant he could score a tap-in that nobody else saw coming, or breakaway from play into 'dead space,' which was non-threatening just a moment or two before. By the time CB's had switched on, the ball was already either in the back of the net, or played on to whoever Romario wished to incorporate in the chain. This speed of thought and ability to be the nail or the hammer in an attack had always been there, but really got international attention when Ronaldo was paired up with him for the seleção, which is what made for what could have been the greatest strike partnership of all-time as both players were peerless strikers of this time in terms of technique and outright skill. Two supercomputer minds running quantum computations without any break in the flow of play. There had always been displays of Romario's intelligence, most famously with Stoichkov at Barcelona and Bebeto for the national team, but this was different; this wasn't Romario the finisher, this was Romario the provider, or Romario the conduit as and when needed. Romario was extremely cocky, arrogant and fully aware of his own brilliance, but he seemed to genuinely adore Ronaldo and would be selfless with him, rather than making a rival out of someone who he could have seen as the biggest threat to a longstanding claim to being the best striker on the planet.

- Ambipedal(?)/Ambidextrosity. Romario could go both ways as he saw fit. Adding yet another string to his bow was his ability to twist and turn and always be in the position to take a shot. Once again, someone so short, so quick, so technically proficient, we're taking minimal time for defenders to try and make the right call on what to do. Not only could he finish without setting himself, he'd have opponents bang to rights with his acceleration and dribbling and his ability to shoot accurately with both feet... there's no such thing as 'showing' him or shepherding him into a safer or easier position - he remained lethal at all times in and around the box on both sides of his body.

Romario is the definition of the non-conformist Brazilian striker, the same as Garrincha is for wingers. A playful Malandro with no interest in behaving how he's told to. He took the game more seriously in his 30's when he became hellbent on beating Pele's record, but during his peak years, he coasted a lot of the time. He wasn't some goal-scoring obsessive then, so much as a player who wanted to let everyone know he was the best. Making opponents look silly whilst getting the job done was more satisfying than tallying a 3rd, 4th or 5th goal. He's the antihero in many ways, which is why he is so adored as he always gave the game more edge and personality. Like an amalgamation of Ronaldo and Ronaldinho in that the former got the job done, and by proxy, made opponents look stupid, and the latter made the opponent look daft as a means to getting the job done - if those two players are on two ends of 'a humiliation with intent spectrum', then Romario is right in the middle of them as the player who sometimes played with laser-like focus and other times did as much as he could to drill home the point he was better than his opponent and a showman entertaining the audience. There really isn't anyone else like him and there'll probably never be another of his ilk and absurd level of talent again.

From the modern game angle, unlike any of Muller, Van Basten or Ronaldo, you have to wonder what position and what compromises Romario would have to make to be serviceable in the game now. Not because of a lack of excellence, but in his approach to the game and his Messi-like trait of coming alive whenever he felt like it, and not before. Plus Romario being told/made to run, and track and press and all those things associated with the modern forward, I dunno how he'd slot in, or if he'd even be arsed to.

I haven't watched this vid, but I guess it tries to give a snapshot of the player for the generations that didn't see him play:


I don't know if Horsey was just messing around making this thread, but Romario's legend should be told because he is not one of many; he is truly a unique player who, after Pele, has as much claim as anyone as the #2 of Brazil and is easily one of the best strikers of all time in his own right.
 

Longlivekeano

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I am just shocked how PSV Eindhoven had Gullit, then Romario, then Ronaldo R9 from late 80s till mid 1990s. Their scouting must be excellent then…
 

Gio

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How much would he really have played as Bebeto and Edmundo were in that squad and were mainly backups given Ronaldo's status and ability.

From what I remember Romario being overlooked in 2002 was more questionable although it was forgotten when Brazil lifted the World cup.

Simply a great goalscorer, would effortlessly round the keeper so often when through on goal which you don't see much of nowadays on one on ones.
It would have been a partnership of Ronaldo and Romario as Brazil played a 4222 shape. It’s one of the great ‘what if?’s had that duo had the opportunity to unleash their football on a World Cup. In 1997 they tore everyone to shreds.
 

Pes6Monster

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It would be so nice if people didn't bring political sickness to every discussion, especially when they don't know shit about the country they're talking about.

"Fascist sympathizer", the kind of shit you have to read.

Also, this stupid racial obsession isn't a thing in Brazil(maybe between some artists or twitter profiles that import this shit from America, but definitely not among people).
Romario's politics has been brought into a discussion about Romario because he has become a politician.

Bolsonaro is a fascist. Romario sympathises with him, as Bolsonaro sympathised with Brazil's erstwhile military dictatorship.

It's a fair assessment.

If it makes you uneasy, well that's your problem, isn't it? You don't have to be such a snowflake.

It's not 'racism' or anything other. Would gladly discuss Brazil's history with you at any juncture. I can guarantee you it won't justify either fascism and Bolsonaro's dangerous misrule.

Hear hear
Goes for you, too.
 
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Murder on Zidane's Floor

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I'm guessing we're talking about roughly 1990-1996 here?

Maybe not the sort of names casual (or not interested in any football before their time) fans in their teens/twenties are likely to know too well, but it did have plenty of players recognised as greats of their positions and countries.

I don't think it was any weaker in that respect than the late 90s to mid 00s Ronaldo/Zidane time even if some of the bigger names like Romario, Baggio and Laudrup ended up lacking that x factor (like a world cup/CL win or missing too many big tournaments through injury/other issues) that had made a player like Zidane be more enduringly famous.

Incidentally, i don't think Zidane would have fared as well if his prime had been late 80s-mid 90s pre-Bosman. France in a transitional between generations stage with an unqualified manager like Platini holding them back from making it a quick process. Strict foreign rule that had seen many clubs be ruthless with inconsistent/lazy genius types that like to take games off, those slow to adapt to new leagues, or any foreigner that had even one mediocre/average season; Serie A being particularly cutthroat. Internationally having to compete with immediately succeeding the notably more productive Platini. Not saying he wouldn't still have a great career, but it would be a more challenging time to replicate as many successes as he had in the late 90s-early 00s.
Maybe even like 88-94 but not that these were bad players, just that we don't seem to rate these guys in the top tens.
 
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Romario's politics has been brought into a discussion about Romario because he has become a politician.

Bolsonaro is a fascist. Romario sympathises with him, as Bolsonaro sympathised with Brazil's erstwhile military dictatorship.

It's a fair assessment.

If it makes you uneasy, well that's your problem, isn't it? You don't have to be such a snowflake.

It's not 'racism' or anything other. Would gladly discuss Brazil's history with you at any juncture. I can guarantee you it won't justify either fascism and Bolsonaro's dangerous misrule.



Goes for you, too.
I wouldn't waste the effort debating you on that matter. Your misuse of the term "fascist" is all I need to know where such a debate would end up. So I'd rather stick to football.
 

FootballHQ

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It would have been a partnership of Ronaldo and Romario as Brazil played a 4222 shape. It’s one of the great ‘what if?’s had that duo had the opportunity to unleash their football on a World Cup. In 1997 they tore everyone to shreds.
Ah right, I had it in my mind Rivaldo had already established himself as the support striker to Ronaldo given he had an amazing season with La Coruna in 96/97 and then settled in o.k at Barca (well as much as you can under Van Gaal!) but he clearly played in the positions behind the two strikers and Bebeto took Romario's place in the usual line up.