I know.
How good were Xavi and Iniesta pre-Guardiola?
- Thread starter VorZakone
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I remember a thread on xtratime forum (I think) back in 2007 where football fans were discussing who the best midfielder in the world is. The general consensus was Pirlo. There were some mentions of Xavi, as there were some mentions of Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard and even Fabregas. However, Pirlo was wildly recognized as the best in the world.
It was Euro 2008 and the subsequent Spanish and Barcelona domination that changed everything. Xavi went from being one of the best midfielders in the world, to one of the best of all time.
Agreed, great link. Love me a bit of Michael Cox.
It's pretty simple. Playing Xavi gives a 100% guarantee of controlling the midfield in every game, no matter the opposition. The only player I've ever seen who literally couldn't be forced into making a mistake.Cant speak highly enough about Iniesta but am I the only one who thinks Xavi isnt really all that? Boring to watch and played it far too safe for my liking. Bit like Cleverley
Maybe I have a blind spot with deep lying playmakers as I dont really rate Alonso either. Give me Carrick any day.
Can anyone help me appreciate Xavi?
I don't think any player has ever been as reliable as him at every level.
I have never seen a midfielder impact a match like prime Xavi did.
There's probably never been a midfield unit that dominated their opponents as consistently and completely as that Barca and Spain midfield, and Xavi was the kingpin of the entire system. He's also notched 29 assists in a season, so they can't all have been safe passes. I understand that his style of play mightn't be to everyone's tastes aesthetically, but he really was all that. Unfortunately in some regards, as we might be 2 CLs better off otherwiseCant speak highly enough about Iniesta but am I the only one who thinks Xavi isnt really all that? Boring to watch and played it far too safe for my liking. Bit like Cleverley
Maybe I have a blind spot with deep lying playmakers as I dont really rate Alonso either. Give me Carrick any day.
Can anyone help me appreciate Xavi?
Apart from the fact that Cleverley is miles behind Xavi when it comes to passing range, positional sense, off the ball movement, awareness of teammates's position, that ability to almost always pass to the strong foot of the teammates and overall technical perfection whether his cushion first touch or turn the defenders on wrong side or his exquisite ball control and most importantly the overall understanding when to play a risky pass, and when to prioritize ball retention.Cant speak highly enough about Iniesta but am I the only one who thinks Xavi isn't really all that? Boring to watch and played it far too safe for my liking. Bit like Cleverley
Maybe I have a blind spot with deep lying playmakers as I dont really rate Alonso either. Give me Carrick any day.
Can anyone help me appreciate Xavi?
Well anyways, if you cannot appreciate Xavi, than nobody can help you.
There is only one quote of Johan Cruyff, I have to show you:
Anyways for the OP: Xavi was always an established part of Barcelona, he was a replacement of Pep himself in Barcelona, and was always among the top player for Barcelona, although his injury in 2005/06, did hurt his standing, form and overall confidence.
Xavi went from many changes from being a deep lying playmaker to a holding midfielder to a more attacking midfielder before Pep, but his role always remained constant, he was the reset button of Barcelona.
People forget the role Xavi had in the Ronaldinho Barca, when he was placed higher up the pitch, until his injury, he was arguably their second best player. Xavi was always rated highly by purist, but it was Pep and Luis Aragonés systems, where his full potential was exploited to built one of the greatest team of all time, with him being the fulcrum of the team.
Iniesta well, he was always going to be a star, with or without Pep.
I believe Xavi pre Pep was rated below Pirlo (one or a half level). And I think Marcos Senna in Euro 2008 was given more credits than Xavi.
Xavi was so fecking press-resistant, it was unreal.
Pep took over in 2008-2009
2004-2005 Iniesta played 37 out of 38 la liga games and 46 games overall
2005-2006 Iniesta played 33 out of 38 la liga games and 49 games overall
2006-2007 Iniesta played 37 out of 38 la liga games and 56 games overall
2007-2008 Iniesta played 31 out of 38 la liga games and 49 games overall
He already had over 20 caps for spain and a European Championship win with Spain (and yes he started in the final) plus he had 2 la liga medals and a cl medal as well
He may have inproved further under Pep but its pure fiction to pretend he was not relatively established by the time pep took over
That does put things in perspective for me, I didn't know Iniesta already played that much pre-Guardiola.
Pirlo
Bloody hell, you talk more rubbish than the other trumpCant speak highly enough about Iniesta but am I the only one who thinks Xavi isnt really all that? Boring to watch and played it far too safe for my liking. Bit like Cleverley
Maybe I have a blind spot with deep lying playmakers as I dont really rate Alonso either. Give me Carrick any day.
Can anyone help me appreciate Xavi?
How many of those were starts? He was more of a talented utility player for most of that time. IIRC, he was growing into more of a first teamer in Rijkaards last season, as deco began to wane.
He is not as flashy and skilled as Iniesta, tough still has great awareness of the pitch and how to use the own body to free himself of the defenders and find better space to pass the ball. Xavi was a master of controlling the game and knew when to make the safe pass pass and the risky pass. And Xavi was truly a pass master, he made many fantastic passes, probably the greatest ground passed in football history, I consider Pirlo the best in aerial passes, tough make no mistake, Xavi was still truly great in the aerial, long passes.Cant speak highly enough about Iniesta but am I the only one who thinks Xavi isnt really all that? Boring to watch and played it far too safe for my liking. Bit like Cleverley
Maybe I have a blind spot with deep lying playmakers as I dont really rate Alonso either. Give me Carrick any day.
Can anyone help me appreciate Xavi?
Despite not being as flashy as Iniesta, if you look to stats of Xavi and Iniesta in Transfermarket, Xavi actually beats Iniesta by a fair margin in the stats, both of goals and assists, specially impressive considering how Xavi usually played a little deeper than Iniesta. There is someone who said that comparing Xavi and Iniesta is like comparing Lamborghini or Ferrari, they do fantastically well the same thing, but in slightly different ways. Below, you can see all the details about their stats as you want.
https://www.transfermarkt.com/vergleich/spielervergleich/statistik/def/spieler/7607&7600
Just hijacking this thread massively but don’t think this is deserving of its own thread.
But for every three league games Pique has played for Barcelona, he has a cap for Spain. Is this absolutely insane to anyone else?
But for every three league games Pique has played for Barcelona, he has a cap for Spain. Is this absolutely insane to anyone else?
Sergio Ramos is at 161 caps and 415 league games for Madrid.
In fairness, with the sheer number of internationals being played, you'd probably be able to find more players with similar ratios.
They were 8 or 9 out of 10s pre-Pep and became 10/10 under him.
Probably his greatest strength as a manager is to polish already excellent players into the very best.
Probably his greatest strength as a manager is to polish already excellent players into the very best.
You don't need to watch a lot to get a grasp how good they were before Pep.
For Iniesta I recommend the CL 2006 final when he came on at half time as a 21 year old to dictate the whole game from deep.
For Xavi you can watch the Euro 2008 final.
Pep brought discipline to Barca at a time when Rijkaard had no control over the locker room but he didn't make these players. Plus Messi came into his own and left his injuries behind.
For Iniesta I recommend the CL 2006 final when he came on at half time as a 21 year old to dictate the whole game from deep.
For Xavi you can watch the Euro 2008 final.
Pep brought discipline to Barca at a time when Rijkaard had no control over the locker room but he didn't make these players. Plus Messi came into his own and left his injuries behind.
Hmm. Why do I get the Pogba vibe here after reading that...
Iniesta would come off the bench for Deco and have an impact and look like he should be starting. And then he didnt, it was Deco again
Easy
Xavi: youth-system darling already in the Van Gaal era (97-00), Liga 98-99 champion, major star of the 04-05 Liga, injured yet winner of La Liga 05-06 and UCL 2006, champion of the 2008 Euro as the major star-best player.
Iniesta: same as Xavi but his journey started in 2003, Edmilson-Deco kept him in the bench for most of 2006-08. I suspect Rijkaard never fully believed in him, or saw the flaws that were most evident in 2013-2018.
The merit of Guardiola was creating the "Busquets (his creation)-Xavi-Iniesta-Messi diamond attack" (with two reluctant CF playing as "false wingers", until the eclosion of Pedro, which was an actual winger, and Alexis, who failed-Pep always wanted Ribéry to begin with).
Xavi: youth-system darling already in the Van Gaal era (97-00), Liga 98-99 champion, major star of the 04-05 Liga, injured yet winner of La Liga 05-06 and UCL 2006, champion of the 2008 Euro as the major star-best player.
Iniesta: same as Xavi but his journey started in 2003, Edmilson-Deco kept him in the bench for most of 2006-08. I suspect Rijkaard never fully believed in him, or saw the flaws that were most evident in 2013-2018.
The merit of Guardiola was creating the "Busquets (his creation)-Xavi-Iniesta-Messi diamond attack" (with two reluctant CF playing as "false wingers", until the eclosion of Pedro, which was an actual winger, and Alexis, who failed-Pep always wanted Ribéry to begin with).
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Xavi did. Iniesta did not. The only difference Pep did for him was hand him a full time unchallenged starting berth in just one position.
That was the main reason for the 2006-07 and 2007-08 disappointments.
Wasn't Xavi getting a bit of stick from Barca fans for a period?
I remember he made his debut for Barca in the first Van Gaal era in 1998 and was long established player but it was felt he never really kicked on for them until Pep came to work and lifted him to another level.
Think Puyol was another like that.
I remember he made his debut for Barca in the first Van Gaal era in 1998 and was long established player but it was felt he never really kicked on for them until Pep came to work and lifted him to another level.
Think Puyol was another like that.
It's all Pep.
Xavi was seen as a poor man's Charlie Adam before he took over, while Iniesta was struggling to get games for Barcelona B.
Most impressively, Pep unearthed a little known Argentinean by the name of Lionel Messi and taught him how to dribble and score goals.
Xavi was seen as a poor man's Charlie Adam before he took over, while Iniesta was struggling to get games for Barcelona B.
Most impressively, Pep unearthed a little known Argentinean by the name of Lionel Messi and taught him how to dribble and score goals.
Just out of interest, what were those flaws?
Iniesta wasn't on the bench for most of 2006 - 08. Only Puyol, Ronaldinho and Xavi had more minutes than him in 06/07 and only Xavi had more minutes in 07/08 among outfielders.
I can't believe a Barca supporter can remember that so wrong.