Why? His mentality is probably the only thing that he has managed to showcase consistently during his stint with us. He literally never gives up.
How many fighters do we have in this squad for your money?
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Licha, Antony, Bruno, Garnacho maybe.. that's it for me. I'm surprised at the few suggesting McTominay as he spends most of his time hiding when he's on the pitch.
Not sure how Rashford isn't in the list, to be honest. Carried our attack all season and somehow he is not a fighter?
Sancho (fighting with the ball whenever it reaches his feet).
I don't know... perhaps it is about fighting spirit and who wants it more. I maintain that several things, like challenging for the second balls and winning your duels, playing with your back to goal or on the half-turn, which for some people are just prerequisites for a footballer, are, in fact, qualities that a player either possesses or he doesn't. If, for example, you expect Martial to spend 90 minutes "getting stuck in" and outmuscling two defenders breathing down his neck (like Drogba did back in the day), you'll be waiting for a long, long time. It doesn't make him a loser or a weak personality, though. That's who he is as a player.
It doesn't mean that player x, z or y is a bad player. Most of them possess standout qualities. It's just that very few of them are decent "all-around footballers". This, more often than not, produces a "moments player". A footballer who will come up with the goods as long as the whole team caters to his strengths and/or the opponent suits his style. Which, again, is something that happens in football and is also one of the tasks a manager has to deal with. Ancelotti is probably the best in the history of the sport at it. The problems start to arise when your squad is filled to the brim with such players.
Most people have realized, by now, that we need to "control" games better. The lines must be pushed higher, the passing in the centre of the park must become more intricate and, ultimately, the possession in the final third has to become better. While working towards that, some people on here, kind of see that a player like Antony, despite offering little to none end-product, actually brings something to the table, especially when it comes to keeping and recycling possession higher up the pitch. And while his end-product is a valid concern, he's being appreciated more than he should because the rest of the gang are godawful at it most of the time. Remember that this is the goal most of us agree we should be working towards. You see the contradiction here?
It's funny that you mention Real Madrid because, in a way, they are the perfect example. Under both Zidane and Ancelotti, they have always been a team with glaring weaknesses in the game. But they make up for it because they always find a way to build a team around solid constants. I'm not talking only about goals and assists. Kroos and Modric is one of them. Their intelligence and passing abilities allowed their managers to design working solutions in the midfield (Di Maria, Isco, even Valverde). But it's not just them. Benzema's world-class off the ball movement and Marcelo being basically a play-maker on the left wing (and one of the best LBs in the history of the sport) allowed Ronnie to play to his absolute best. Now, they have Vini Jr, who's probably the best in the world at carrying the ball from the middle third into the opposition box and Benz has proven that he can be relied upon when it comes to scoring. They are the "enablers" of their team, they possess the skill-set to deliver against all sorts of opponents and under various circumstances. And this is what breeds confidence to the rest of the team.
United used to have these players throughout Fergie's reign. In his later days, they kept winning trophies despite most of them being way past their best. Rio/Vidic at the back, Evra covering the whole left flank, Carrick and Scholes/Giggs in the midfield, Rooney operating between the lines. We won the league and reached the CL final with Hernandez up front and with Berbatov out of favour. People today would be screaming about how many new players we need to challenge.
My biggest fear is that the people who run the club believe that they have these players. That we just need to add a couple more and we'll be fine. I sincerely hope this is the case. Pep mentioned something interesting after we beat them at OT. He was asked if he believed that the gap between the two sides had been narrowed, and his answer wasn't a simple yes or no. He said, instead, that United are still a transition side (meaning that he has been dealing with that since 2017). Which is true and it has nothing to do with ETH's coaching abilities. He's a far better manager than Solskjaer, but the fact remains: We were a team that passes the ball to Bruno so that he can play the first-time ball in-behind to Marcus under Solskajer, and we are still a team that does the very same thing under ETH. Perhaps, just saying, this is as far as we can go by doing just that.
It doesn't mean that player x, z or y is a bad player. Most of them possess standout qualities. It's just that very few of them are decent "all-around footballers". This, more often than not, produces a "moments player". A footballer who will come up with the goods as long as the whole team caters to his strengths and/or the opponent suits his style. Which, again, is something that happens in football and is also one of the tasks a manager has to deal with. Ancelotti is probably the best in the history of the sport at it. The problems start to arise when your squad is filled to the brim with such players.
Most people have realized, by now, that we need to "control" games better. The lines must be pushed higher, the passing in the centre of the park must become more intricate and, ultimately, the possession in the final third has to become better. While working towards that, some people on here, kind of see that a player like Antony, despite offering little to none end-product, actually brings something to the table, especially when it comes to keeping and recycling possession higher up the pitch. And while his end-product is a valid concern, he's being appreciated more than he should because the rest of the gang are godawful at it most of the time. Remember that this is the goal most of us agree we should be working towards. You see the contradiction here?
It's funny that you mention Real Madrid because, in a way, they are the perfect example. Under both Zidane and Ancelotti, they have always been a team with glaring weaknesses in the game. But they make up for it because they always find a way to build a team around solid constants. I'm not talking only about goals and assists. Kroos and Modric is one of them. Their intelligence and passing abilities allowed their managers to design working solutions in the midfield (Di Maria, Isco, even Valverde). But it's not just them. Benzema's world-class off the ball movement and Marcelo being basically a play-maker on the left wing (and one of the best LBs in the history of the sport) allowed Ronnie to play to his absolute best. Now, they have Vini Jr, who's probably the best in the world at carrying the ball from the middle third into the opposition box and Benz has proven that he can be relied upon when it comes to scoring. They are the "enablers" of their team, they possess the skill-set to deliver against all sorts of opponents and under various circumstances. And this is what breeds confidence to the rest of the team.
United used to have these players throughout Fergie's reign. In his later days, they kept winning trophies despite most of them being way past their best. Rio/Vidic at the back, Evra covering the whole left flank, Carrick and Scholes/Giggs in the midfield, Rooney operating between the lines. We won the league and reached the CL final with Hernandez up front and with Berbatov out of favour. People today would be screaming about how many new players we need to challenge.
My biggest fear is that the people who run the club believe that they have these players. That we just need to add a couple more and we'll be fine. I sincerely hope this is the case. Pep mentioned something interesting after we beat them at OT. He was asked if he believed that the gap between the two sides had been narrowed, and his answer wasn't a simple yes or no. He said, instead, that United are still a transition side (meaning that he has been dealing with that since 2017). Which is true and it has nothing to do with ETH's coaching abilities. He's a far better manager than Solskjaer, but the fact remains: We were a team that passes the ball to Bruno so that he can play the first-time ball in-behind to Marcus under Solskajer, and we are still a team that does the very same thing under ETH. Perhaps, just saying, this is as far as we can go by doing just that.
De Gea, AWB, Maguire, Lindelof, Shaw, Eriksen, Sancho, Martial. I trust none of them to bring any kind of fight to the team when things get dicey. Add to that Weghorst being shit, Bruno being suspended, it’s not hard to see how we ended up in that situation last night.
It think its easiest to just to list the first team players that should be kept at the club (not including the really young fringe lads), we need to be utterly ruthless here and anyone with even a slight doubt needs to be out;
Caseimiro, Martinez, Varane, Bruno, Rashy, Malacia, Anthony, Garnacho, Eriksen,. Shaw maybe for general contribution but i still have him as one of the mentally weak ones.
Caseimiro, Martinez, Varane, Bruno, Rashy, Malacia, Anthony, Garnacho, Eriksen,. Shaw maybe for general contribution but i still have him as one of the mentally weak ones.
The word you are looking for is ‘petulant’.
For me a ‘fighter’ is somebody who gets their heads down, works hard and changes the game when the going gets tough. Too many of our team lose their heads and sulk when we are up against it.
Sadly, I don’t think we are in the right moment for such ruthlessness, either financially or structurally. Too much uncertainty about the future to be radical. I think this summer will be an evolution again, rather than revolution.
I would agree with you if the scenario was that the leeches still owned the club. I am trying to stay positive and assume a new ownership scenario, i think this could allow a drastic change in direction. Of course most clubs/managers can't act like Pep and just keep changing full backs and defenders in very short time frames until they stumble on a good option.
Rashford, Varane, Martinez, Antony, Bruno, Garnacho and Cassameiro have all proven to be mentally tough....Fred and McT give their very best physically and aren't afraid to scrap, but I do think that big games cause them to freeze up a bit. Luke Shaw, I'm still kind of on the fence about, but probably lean towards him being tough enough mentally. We need more of these dudes and less players like Sancho, Maguire and Lindeloff. Playing at a place like Manchester United isn't for the weak nor timid.
I have no idea what "fighters" means anymore, to be honest.
Based on what I used to associate with the term, we have...nobody?
But that's probably irrelevant, yes?
We presumably don't need "fighters" of the sort I think about - we just need sufficiently good players to carry out the instructions of a sufficiently good manager/coach.
(And, yes - they have to give a feck, preferably give 100%, I assume that still is something proper professionals strive to do.)
Based on what I used to associate with the term, we have...nobody?
But that's probably irrelevant, yes?
We presumably don't need "fighters" of the sort I think about - we just need sufficiently good players to carry out the instructions of a sufficiently good manager/coach.
(And, yes - they have to give a feck, preferably give 100%, I assume that still is something proper professionals strive to do.)
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This is an abomination
Ten Hag is right about our squad not having a winning mentality. You can’t teach winning mentality to a bunch of losers and whiners. This squad needs a overhaul for players like Martinez who play for the badge
Martinez, Antony, Casemiro, Garnacho, and maybe one or two others. Our South American players generally seem to have more fight. The good news is that ETH is similar to Fergie in that he looks for players with big personalities and bloody mindedness.
Yeah, players that have pride in themselves as well as the team - that might lose a game, but can hold their head up knowing they've given their all.
For all the mercenary talk regarding City, they have this quality in abundance before we talk about talent/ability.
And people were wondering why Valencia didn't use his left foot that often.
He is a fighter. He is the Mourinho destroyer.Shaw