How many fighters do we have in this squad for your money?

[Fortitude]

Age old cliché that is grounded in truth that some players simply want it more than others and that mental fortitude and bloody mindedness carries them to victories that didn't seem possible or has them overcome supposedly insurmountable odds time and time again.

Madrid are the current masters of this, and we were for many periods of Fergie's tenure, but these days, we're actually defined by how many times we show no stones and capitulate per season with no heart or ability to fight adversity or being truly up against it.

When it comes to "warriors" and fighters in our team, Martinez and Antony are perhaps the first names on the teamsheet. After them you have: Bruno, Casemiro and Varane, I guess. Is that it for our squad though? Do all five of these players fit your depiction of fighters, even?

We've got a big job to do in terms of player recruitment over the summer, but this nerve/bottle issue is also paramount; too many players are quicker to crumble in adverse conditions than they are to be counted upon.

Given that fighting spirit has been a hallmark of this club - that no matter how good/bad our collective, we had the heart to match anyone in one-off games and cup competitions - it's still surreal to see how limp-wristed we are for the majority of those big games, particularly away from home and it needs fixing, pronto.

 

[Livewire1974]

Martinez, Casemiro, Bruno, Shaw, Antony....in that order.

Nobody else.

 

[Bastian]

Martinez, Casemiro, Bruno, Shaw, Antony....in that order.

Nobody else.

Is the correct answer. Though I suspect Garnacho will likely be similar to Antony and Bruno in terms of temperament.

 

[Someone]

Honestly one of the biggest issues in this squad, and something that ETH has identified quickly and tried to counter with our summer signings, but I'm worried that we're still way off.

We have a lot of players that crumble at the first opportunity, and just don't possess the mental strength to push for a title next season.

The likes of De Gea, Maguire, Shaw, Sancho, Martial, Fred, AWB and Dalot don't have any character in them, regardless to talent. If we're to assemble a squad capable of challenging for titles, I don't see any of them rising to the occasion, regardless to talent.

A massive clear out never really materialize, but I hope that in 3 years time I'll be looking at that list and see none of them playing for the club, maybe with the exception of Shaw.

 

[AndySmith1990]

Not nearly enough

 

[Addled]

Not Shaw and his gimpy leg tonight - prick

 

[lsd]

Pretty much all our fighters are injured bar Casemiro today who was way below his best

 

[Livewire1974]

Is the correct answer. Though I suspect Garnacho will likely be similar to Antony and Bruno in terms of temperament.

I will include Garnacho if he signs a new contract, but he does have the right attitude so far

 

[chay chay okocha]

Martinez, Casemiro, Bruno, Shaw, Antony....in that order.

Nobody else.

Mostly agree (and would have Antony higher up) - but Shaw is a curious one. Seems to say all the right things (post-match), and does have a nasty streak of putting in late challenges that really come to the fore when we are losing games - but I'm not sure he plays with the intensity of a "fighter". I do rate him as a footballer and he is an exceptionally technical player, which I always have a soft spot for, but I am often bothered by the intensity with which he seems to defend 1-on-1 situations: he seems reluctant to engage in tight physical battles and often concedes a lot of space. Contrast this with the way Malacia plays - with much less quality, but seemingly much more aggression - and you can see why quite a few fans seemed to gravitate to Malacia's early performances, such was the contrast in their (perceived) intensity.

 

[Look-a-Hill]

Martinez, Casemiro and Antony and that's it. Maybe McTominay, Garnacho and Weghorst (for what that's worth). Bruno is just a whinger, and the rest are passive.

 

[FreakyJim]

Not sure anymore. Based on tonight, almost none.

 

[Ibi Dreams]

Martinez, Casemiro, Bruno, Shaw, Antony....in that order.

Nobody else.

Would swap Shaw for Rashford

Apart from that you're right. Shaw is a maybe

Maybe Dalot? But he doesn't really have the quality to do anything with it. And yeah maybe Garnacho, but very early with him

 

[Drizzle]

Mostly agree (and would have Antony higher up) - but Shaw is a curious one. Seems to say all the right things (post-match), and does have a nasty streak of putting in late challenges that really come to the fore when we are losing games - but I'm not sure he plays with the intensity of a "fighter". I do rate him as a footballer and he is an exceptionally technical player, which I always have a soft spot for, but I am often bothered by the intensity with which he seems to defend 1-on-1 situations: he seems reluctant to engage in tight physical battles and often concedes a lot of space. Contrast this with the way Malacia plays - with much less quality, but seemingly much more aggression - and you can see why quite a few fans seemed to gravitate to Malacia's early performances, such was the contrast in their (perceived) intensity.

Really good post and sums up Shaw well.

 

[Idxomer]

Only Martial.

 

[thegregster]

None. Anfield and tonight showed that. Not one single player has anything about them when the going gets hard.(I'll not judge Garnacho yet obviously).

None of our rivals will fear us going forward. This squad isnt up to it.

 

[Unam333]

Martinez, Casemiro, Antony in that order have got a little fight in them. Interesting, they are all summer signings. Maybe add Garnacho as well. He looks a proper United player.

 

[Livewire1974]

Would swap Shaw for Rashford

I'd add Rashford to my list, based on his improvement this season.

 

[VivaObertan]

From LB to RW:

Malacia, Martinez, Varane, AWB, Casemiro, McTominay, Fred, Bruno, Garnacho, Weghorst, Antony.

(I recognise some of these players aren't very good, but these are the players I'd class as fighters)

 

[croadyman]

None. Anfield and tonight showed that. Not one single player has anything about them when the going gets hard.(I'll not judge Garnacho yet obviously).

None of our rivals will fear us going forward. This squad isnt up to it.

Yeah still so weak when the going gets tough

 

[croadyman]

From LB to RW:

Malacia, Martinez, Varane, AWB, Casemiro, McTominay, Fred, Bruno, Garnacho, Weghorst, Antony.

(I recognise some of these players aren't very good, but these are the players I'd class as fighters)

Haha don't make me laugh with some of them

 

[VivaObertan]

Haha don't make me laugh with some of them

They're the players currently I'd say leave it all on the pitch 90% of games, even if it doesn't amount to much because of lack of talent.

Might even include Dalot TBH

 

[JJ12]

Not enough.

I wouldn’t be including Shaw like some of you.

Casemiro, Antony, Bruno, Varane and Lisandro - all mostly new players which says an awful lot about the pathetic players we’ve had for far too long.

Martial and Sancho are probably the worst.

 

[Vault Dweller]

There's loads that don't have the stomach for it. Certain players are out injured the now and it shows, both in terms of ability and attitude. I'm very worried about top 4 yet again.

 

[led_scholes]

Martinez, Casemiro and Antony and that's it. Maybe McTominay, Garnacho and Weghorst (for what that's worth). Bruno is just a whinger, and the rest are passive.

Bruno is a winger but he runs until his lungs explode and he always try.

 

[Cloud7]

In no particular order, Antony, Casemiro, Bruno, Lisandro, Varane, Dalot, Fred.

Says a lot that most of them are new signings

 

[Kag]

Ah, the usual I hate the mentality of our players thread.

You’ll see a thread in a couple of weeks, after a big win, saying how great and loveable they are again.

Until folk realise and accept that our squad is full of the sort of players who you’d expect to play in a team that finishes in fifth or sixth position and plays in the Europa League, then you’re going to drive yourself mad.

We have five or six really good players: Varane, Martinez, Bruno, Rashford, Casemiro and Shaw.

The rest? A mixture of decent to genuinely pretty shite. A few injuries and suspensions to those lads and we play like the team that we are: a Europa League team who will range from looking very good to, sometimes, pretty bad.

Accept it for feck sake.

 

[Resch]

Not enough, we do not have the leader, who is followed by all the players. We do not have the players, who fight for each other. We have too many bystanders...

 

[groovyalbert]

I'd say: AWB, Varane, Lindelof, Martinez, Shaw, Casemiro, Sabitzer, Eriksen, Bruno, Fred, Rashford, Garnacho.

By this, I think they have the credentials to win big trophies with the right mentality (not necessarily as first team starters). I think there's a good chance Pellestri and Amad will eventually be added to this list.

Our major issues are the weak links that are targeted and exploited regularly in our brain-fart defeats. Upgrade DDG, Maguire, Martial and Sancho from last night, for instance, and I don't think we get knocked out.

Maguire the big one though - when he plays, and our opposition has the capacity to press hard, the amount of time he's on the ball is scary because he's such an obvious weak link.

 

[Leftback99]

Martinez, Antony and Casemiro. The rest are pretty pathetic when the going gets tough, we've seen it too many times.

 

[Rockets Redglare]

This is what annoys me about Maguire. If he had the limited skill set that he has but was a big nasty bastard he’d be much more difficult to play against, but he’s just a big placid lump.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

Honestly one of the biggest issues in this squad, and something that ETH has identified quickly and tried to counter with our summer signings, but I'm worried that we're still way off.

We have a lot of players that crumble at the first opportunity, and just don't possess the mental strength to push for a title next season.

The likes of De Gea, Maguire, Shaw, Sancho, Martial, Fred, AWB and Dalot don't have any character in them, regardless to talent. If we're to assemble a squad capable of challenging for titles, I don't see any of them rising to the occasion, regardless to talent.

A massive clear out never really materialize, but I hope that in 3 years time I'll be looking at that list and see none of them playing for the club, maybe with the exception of Shaw.

That is the silver lining for me. Erik has brought in the right characters with every signing (Eriksen isn't exactly a street urchin but he's fine) and plays Bruno every single minute he can as he clearly didn't fancy most of the existing squad to roll their sleeves up. If he's backed I have faith in his judgement.

 

[manichester]

All the South American contingent, plus Eriksen and Bruno. Varan when he is fit but seems to be fragile.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

We need all our new additions to both be good passers / capable of possession play and fighters too

 

[christinaa]

Licha is number one!!

 

[DickDastardly]

That is the silver lining for me. Erik has brought in the right characters with every signing (Eriksen isn't exactly a street urchin but he's fine) and plays Bruno every single minute he can as he clearly didn't fancy most of the existing squad to roll their sleeves up. If he's backed I have faith in his judgement.

Yep.

Even the piss poor footballer that is Wout Weghorst, but he still has the right mentality. Never say die run your boots off mentality.

 

[sugar_kane]

All of Ten Hag's signings seem to fit the profile whether you rate them as footballers or not.

He knows what the issue is, and he is trying to slowly resolve it through squad turnover. Unfortunately he can't do it overnight and it will take a few transfer windows.

He can work all he wants on improving the mentality of our legacy squad players and he has had success here and there (Rashford, Wan Bissaka, Dalot) but as Keano says a leopard doesn't change it's spots and many of these players are unsalvageable. For now though, Ten Hag needs to rely on them hence not throwing them under the bus like Mourinho might have.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Martinez, Casemiro, Bruno, Shaw, Antony....in that order.

Nobody else.

Shaw

 

[Judge Red]

I was surprised that Antony was the only one who looked like he wanted to win last night. I had him down as one of the quickest to give up.

 

[EireRed_GS]

Bruno , Casemiro, Varane , Licha.. thats prob the only ones i think can handle an away crowd at the min.

Antony has showed hes up for it, but prob too early to say, as at times hes not offered a whole lot away from home.

Its a serious problem we have. We just crumble with any hostility in the crowd. Id say this last couple of games theres a few of them playing for their United career and will say alot how they react (which i dont think will be too positively)

 

[harms]

Wan-Bissaka does to seem to suffer less from this issue under ten Hag (which is a credit to the latter) but he does have a tendency to switch off. Even last night he did it a couple times, allowing Sevilla to regain possession. He loves a good tackle but I assume that by a fighter @Fortitude means someone who has a never-say-die attitude, not someone who kicks people. Same goes for Shaw — a much more talented player and hardly someone to blame for last night's disaster but a player with a tendency to crumble when things go wrong. It was odd to see both mentioned a couple of times already.

Martinez, Antony, Casemiro, Varane, Fred, Bruno, Malacia, Weghorst, Rashford... probably Garnacho & Sabitzer as well. I'm not sure about McTominay — he has all the heart but he also has a tendency to hide from the ball, but maybe it's not a mental thing but simply a complete lack of spatial awareness/football intelligence. Dalot is also an odd one that I can't fully make up my mind about.

Quite a few of the above-mentioned lack quality though — and the worst thing is that our worst culprits are so bad that they drag the entire team down with them.