How many of our players are above mediocre?

[Canagel]

Paul is the best midfielder in the world ? Erm no he isn't

It's not an exaggeration. Infact he has a great claim for that title. As @Halal Jalal has posted which players in his position had as much influence as him? The people can say whatever they like but this team can fall to midtable without him and maybe lower. Don't underestimate his ability because he plays for a weak team. He is the missing piece we lacked from 2009-2013 in SAF midfield, I can only imagine how many more trophies we could have won if he played in that squad and not this one.

 

[Halal Jalal]

Thought we were talking about winning games not trophies, not hard to win the league with Juventus by the way.

Ps you said show some f*cking respect in the same sentence as calling united a shitty struggling team

Do you support Man Utd or Pogba?

Games or trophies, conclusion remains the same. PP had brilliant season despite having to carry our mediocre team, while the other top performers have elite support. Club of our size should be able to provide platform for world class players but we're deploying midfield dross like Matic, McT or Fred to get in PP's way instead of helping him out.
No need for snidey personal attacks, I'm a Manchester United supporter first and PP admirer second. And just like any intelligent Manchester United supporter not blinded by prejudice, I realise that getting the best ouf of Paul is our only way back to the top now.

 

[Van Piorsing]

About five of them, but it doesn't mean much. You can have 11 world class players that can fail the process of becoming a team.

Our players are not that terrible, it's just they're not working as a unit, especially in midfield area.

EDIT: Perhaps few of them are actually terrible and not willing to improve. The results doesn't lie.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Games or trophies, conclusion remains the same. PP had brilliant season despite having to carry our mediocre team, while the other top performers have elite support. Club of our size should be able to provide platform for world class players but we're deploying midfield dross like Matic, McT or Fred to get in PP's way instead of helping him out.
No need for snidey personal attacks, I'm a Manchester United supporter first and PP admirer second. And just like any intelligent Manchester United supporter not blinded by prejudice, I realise that getting the best ouf of Paul is our only way back to the top now.

Think we are going to have to agree to disagree but would appreciate you not putting undertones of racism as the reason I don’t rate pogba as highly as you. That is at least the 3rd time you have insinuated racism as why.

 

[TRUERED89]

DDG
Pogba
AWB
Maguire
Rashford
Maybe you could squeeze in another 1 or 2 at a pinch but I'm struggling tbh.
We can all talk about systems, the manager etc etc but have we got the quality?

If Rashford is above mediocre, then Martial is definitely on this list! Shaw may just squeeze in there too.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

Think we are going to have to agree to disagree but would appreciate you not putting undertones of racism as the reason I don’t rate pogba as highly as you. That is at least the 3rd time you have insinuated racism as why.

He wasn't insinuating racism in the slightest?

 

[fergiesarmy1]

He wasn't insinuating racism in the slightest?

Any intelligent Manchester United supporter not blinded by prejudice?
non football agenda?
Pretty sure he called me xenophobic a few days ago (might have been someone else but I think it was him)

So yeah not in the slightest

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

Any intelligent Manchester United supporter not blinded by prejudice?
non football agenda?
Pretty sure he called me xenophobic a few days ago (might have been someone else but I think it was him)

So yeah not in the slightest

He said you were being prejudice and said you had a non football agenda, non of that is inherently racist, I'm not sure you quite understand the word, he may have insinuated you don't like him due to his personality.

I must have missed the Xenophobia comment

 

[fergiesarmy1]

He said you were being prejudice and said you had a non football agenda, non of that is inherently racist, I'm not sure you quite understand the word, he may have insinuated you don't like him due to his personality.

I must have missed the Xenophobia comment

So what could the non football agenda mean? I understand the word Xenophobic when discussing black foreign players though when I am not in the slightest.

 

[Withnail]

Any intelligent Manchester United supporter not blinded by prejudice?
non football agenda?
Pretty sure he called me xenophobic a few days ago (might have been someone else but I think it was him)

So yeah not in the slightest

He's insinuating something but won't come out and say it. That could be because he got a warning for calling you xenophobic the other day.

 

[TRUERED89]

Think we are going to have to agree to disagree but would appreciate you not putting undertones of racism as the reason I don’t rate pogba as highly as you. That is at least the 3rd time you have insinuated racism as why.

Perhaps that quoted post isn't it, but where has he insinuated racism being the reason you don't rate Pogba as highly as him!?

 

[SadlerMUFC]

What? We won nothing last season, and Paul is still up there with two GOATs in terms of individual contribution to points won. Hardly a logical leap to say that he'd be even better with appropriate team mates around him - after all, he's proven that with Juventus and France already.

I think the problem people have with Pogba is that between his flashes of brilliance there is to much mediocricy. We all know just how good he can be. He just doesn't do it often enough. Take the Chelsea game for example. For the most part he was awful, then two moments of brilliance and two goals. Same with Palace. For James' goal he lost the ball and then fought hard, won it back and started the attack that James finished. Then a few minutes later he got brushed off the ball far too easily which launched Palace's counter attack and winning goal. The disappointment for Pogba is because our expectations are way higher than any other player on the team and more often than not, we are left wanting more. We know he's a world class player. He has the ability to be the best in the world. What we want is consistency and for him to play for the name on the front of the shirt and not the back...

 

[TRUERED89]

I think the problem people have with Pogba is that between his flashes of brilliance there is to much mediocricy. We all know just how good he can be. He just doesn't do it often enough. Take the Chelsea game for example. For the most part he was awful, then two moments of brilliance and two goals. Same with Palace. For James' goal he lost the ball and then fought hard, won it back and started the attack that James finished. Then a few minutes later he got brushed off the ball far too easily which launched Palace's counter attack and winning goal. The disappointment for Pogba is because our expectations are way higher than any other player on the team and more often than not, we are left wanting more. We know he's a world class player. He has the ability to be the best in the world. What we want is consistency and for him to play for the name on the front of the shirt and not the back...

Cant disagree there, well put!

 

[snowkarl]

It's not an exaggeration. Infact he has a great claim for that title. As @Halal Jalal has posted which players in his position had as much influence as him? The people can say whatever they like but this team can fall to midtable without him and maybe lower. Don't underestimate his ability because he plays for a weak team. He is the missing piece we lacked from 2009-2013 in SAF midfield, I can only imagine how many more trophies we could have won if he played in that squad and not this one.

90% of your posts on this very forum are about Pogba

you're not a Manchester United fan, but a Paul Pogba fan

 

[Jimmy_Bond]

Paul is the best midfielder in the world

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Any intelligent Manchester United supporter not blinded by prejudice?
non football agenda?
Pretty sure he called me xenophobic a few days ago (might have been someone else but I think it was him)

So yeah not in the slightest

So it was Halal Jalal who in reply to me said quoted “don’t you have some xenophobic twitter abuse to get back to”

Parlay that with the not blinded by prejudice and non football agenda I think you can see where I am getting the undertones of racism accusations from.

 

[Toddler]

I agree that the AWB claim might be a bit bold, but you have to agree that he's extremely impressive for his age. Especially the physical and defensive attributes. Walker and TAA are probably ahead of him right now... but who else? I don't think there are many world class fullbacks right now, especially RBs. Carvajal declined badly, S. Roberto/Semedo are sh*t, Bayern have a midfielder Kimmich playing there, Juventus just got f*cking Danilo. So even the top continental clubs are struggling with quality in that position, AWB would walk into their starting XIs.
Regarding PP... I see that the haters are out in full force once again. If you're watching the same player I do and refuse to acknowledge the generational talent and quality, there has to be some non-football agenda involved. But lets not get into that and see what the stats have to say:
https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/...es_top_5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app
Only Messi and CR7 won more points per 90 minutes in top 5 leagues than Paul previous season. That's a fact not an opnion. How many other midfielders do you see in top 10 of that list? Spoiler alert: 0. His individual contribution is only behind the two players generally considered to be the best in history... and PP is just behind them, playing as central midfielder for a sh*tty struggling team. Show some f*cking respect.

I hear you, okay. I'd say Pogba is our best player but that does not mean he is the best in the world. I'd say they are somewhere in top 10.

 

[Withnail]

I think the problem people have with Pogba is that between his flashes of brilliance there is to much mediocricy. We all know just how good he can be. He just doesn't do it often enough. Take the Chelsea game for example. For the most part he was awful, then two moments of brilliance and two goals. Same with Palace. For James' goal he lost the ball and then fought hard, won it back and started the attack that James finished. Then a few minutes later he got brushed off the ball far too easily which launched Palace's counter attack and winning goal. The disappointment for Pogba is because our expectations are way higher than any other player on the team and more often than not, we are left wanting more. We know he's a world class player. He has the ability to be the best in the world. What we want is consistency and for him to play for the name on the front of the shirt and not the back...

I'd agree with most of that as to why people have a problem with him. However, I think it has to be taken into account that he has McTominay, who isn't playing brilliantly, beside him and Lingard, who's having a mare, in front of him. If he was surrounded by more quality, there'd be less pressure on him and I believe he'd be less likely to make mistakes or hold on to the ball too long leading to him getting dispossessed.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Perhaps that quoted post isn't it, but where has he insinuated racism being the reason you don't rate Pogba as highly as him!?

See post above from me, it’s clear as day.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

I'd agree with most of that as to why people have a problem with him. However, I think it has to be taken into account that he has McTominay, who isn't playing brilliantly, beside him and Lingard, who's having a mare, in front of him. If he was surrounded by more quality, there'd be less pressure on him and I believe he'd be less likely to make mistakes or hold on to the ball too long leading to him getting dispossessed.

Selective passing is the worst thing a player can do. If he is getting dispossessed because he doesn't trust his teammates then that's a Pogba problem, not a team problem. Give these players the ball and if they lose it then it's on them, not Pogba...

 

[fergiesarmy1]

He's insinuating something but won't come out and say it. That could be because he got a warning for calling you xenophobic the other day.

Cheers, found it was him in the end.

 

[TRUERED89]

See post above from me, it’s clear as day.

I cant find where he said "don’t you have some xenophobic twitter abuse to get back to" but if he did then fair enough!

 

[Chaky_Best]

Paul is the best midfielder in the world, so "above average" would be an understatement.
Wan-Bissaka is top 3 RB in the world.
Martial still has the potential to become world class in my opinion, but seems to lack the right mentality.

That's it. De Gea used to be absolute world class (#1 GK for a while even) but he's finished, nowhere near Alisson or Ederson now. Maguire is good enough for top 4 fight, but not world class. Rashford lacks the technique and intelligence to be anything but a pace merchant - like Maguire, good enough for top 4 fight but doesn't have the potential to be a top striker for top team. He's barely developed since his debut.

Walker, Cancelo, TAA, Semedo, Carvajal, Kimich, Sergi Roberto.

Arguable with Meunier, Florenzi, Hysaj also. And I htink that I probably miss some

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

The last time we’ve had a world class squad was literally a decade ago.

 

[Bwuk]

The last time we’ve had a world class squad was literally a decade ago.

Don't agree. De Gea was world class for a while, and Pogba clearly is in the right team.

 

[Rob Bowman]

Top Class
De Gea
Pogba

Above Norm
AWB
Maguire
Rashford
Martial
Shaw


Mediocre/Squad
Linderlof (is he better than this... not sure?)
Mata (and honestly if you do not play him against a team like Crystal Palace what is the point of keeping him?)
Matic
Lingard
Fred
Bailly

Not mediocre but not the finished article yet so maybe call potential
McT (perfect example as I have no issues him starting, but clearly not the finished article yet)
Chong
Gomes
Greenwood
Garner
Dalot
Tuanzebe
James


Rest I can do without...

So the problem is we do not have 2 starting CMs or a RW (and maybe a CD as well) plus that is a whole lot of potential to rely on imho...

 

[Macca7]

He’s not even the best midfielder in Manchester, this love in needs to stop.

This. Do people not watch him every week? He's nowhere near the best midfielder in the world and hasn't been at any point since he joined United. He's been so underwhelming it's untrue. There's a massive difference between attributes/ability and actual effectiveness in a game of football. A lot of people don't seem to understand this.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

Don't agree. De Gea was world class for a while, and Pogba clearly is in the right team.

Two players don’t make a world class squad.

 

[mitchmouse]

All those saying Pogba and DDG - it would be nice if they'd prove it. both been very poor for months now

 

[GDaly95]

DDG
Maguire
AWB
Pogba

 

[WolfInSharp'sClothing]

Depends how you qualify mediocre? For me, anything less than top 6 for Man United is below par, so it comes down to how many of your squad would challenge to get into other top 6 sides?

Current (not potential) ability levels as they stand based on positions....

10 = Good enough to compete for the title
9 = Good enough for top 4
8 = Good enough for top 6
7 = Good enough for top 8
6 = Good enough for top 10
5 = Good enough for top 12
4 = Good enough for top 14
3 = Good enough for top 16
2 = Relegated
1 = Championship

GK: De Gea - 10
DR: Wan Bisakka - 8
DC: Lindelof - 7
DC: Maguire - 9
DL: Shaw - 6
CM: McTominay - 6
CM: Pogba - 10
RW: James - 6
AM: Lingard - 6
LW: Rashford - 8
CF: Martial - 8

So of your current starting XI, 6/11 could challenge to get into any top 6 club.

Squad:

Romero - 6
Grant - 1
Dalot - 6
Darmian - 5
Fosu-Mensah - 4
Smalling - 6
Jones - 4
Bailly - 6
Rojo - 4
Tuanzebe - 5
Young - 5
Matic - 6
Fred - 6
Mata - 6
Pereira - 5
Chong - 4
Greenwood - 5

So 6/28 of your squad would challenge to play for any top 6 side - De Gea, Wan Bisakka, Maguire, Pogba, Rashford and Martial.

 

[Shakesy]

What about Chelsea or Arsenal - or direct rivals. How many are "above average"?

 

[Steve 007]

We seem to be in position in which we want all our players sold and new ones brought in.

Be careful what we wish for because some of these players will go elsewhere and show how good they can become.
Depay and Zaha are two that spring to mind as two who have been much more successful since they left.

I personally think Martial will go one to shine at the very top but I fear it won’t be here.

I think there’s other potential top players in our squad too, Wan Bassaka, Rashford, James (way too early for him yet), Maguire will come good, Lindelof (I hope). McT and I don’t think we should be writing off Shaw yet either.

I know I’ll get shot down for this one, but I can’t make my mind up on Bailly either, he’s had some shockers but I think there’s a player there too.

Let’s look back at history before we panick too much about the palace result and our defence, Evra has a shocker and was hauled off at half time in his first game, Stam looked rubbish in his first few games.

Personally I think our attack and defence are going to be good this season, our midfield worries me but against dominant possession teams we’ll have some great results, we’ll grind out a few too and I expect we’ll get top four with quite a few players showing we underestimated them.

If you look back to finishing second and finishing six in the last two seasons we scored about the same amount of goals
65/64 I think, we lost the great Ibra too and still scored the same, the reason we finished six is the goals conceded. I’m sure that’s going to be a million times better this season.

 

[Halal Jalal]

I think the problem people have with Pogba is that between his flashes of brilliance there is to much mediocricy. We all know just how good he can be. He just doesn't do it often enough. Take the Chelsea game for example. For the most part he was awful, then two moments of brilliance and two goals. Same with Palace. For James' goal he lost the ball and then fought hard, won it back and started the attack that James finished. Then a few minutes later he got brushed off the ball far too easily which launched Palace's counter attack and winning goal. The disappointment for Pogba is because our expectations are way higher than any other player on the team and more often than not, we are left wanting more. We know he's a world class player. He has the ability to be the best in the world. What we want is consistency and for him to play for the name on the front of the shirt and not the back...

Thank you for putting some effort into your comment and elaborating on the criticism, even though I categorically disagree. Preferable to half-witted replies with no coherent observations or stats to back them up ( @fergiesarmy1 )

It's not an exaggeration. Infact he has a great claim for that title. As @Halal Jalal has posted which players in his position had as much influence as him? The people can say whatever they like but this team can fall to midtable without him and maybe lower. Don't underestimate his ability because he plays for a weak team. He is the missing piece we lacked from 2009-2013 in SAF midfield, I can only imagine how many more trophies we could have won if he played in that squad and not this one.

Agreed!

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Thank you for putting some effort into your comment and elaborating on the criticism, even though I categorically disagree. Preferable to half-witted replies with no coherent observations or stats to back them up ( @fergiesarmy1 )

Agreed!

Just calling me stupid today instead of racist, progress I guess.

Grow up for gods sake.

 

[Casanova85]

Mediocre is a harsh term, associated with amateur or semi-pro football, or below the championship.

I prefer to use a SAF term, "Top Top Player". Top Top players elevate the rest of the squad and make you win the PL and UCLs.

How many consistent Top Top Players does Man Utd 19-20 have?

20 years ago, Top Top Players: Schmeichel, Stam, Keane, Scholes, Beckham, Giggs, Cole, Yorke. Might even add G. Neville to that list.

 

[Sky12]

Paul is the best midfielder in the world, so "above average" would be an understatement.
Wan-Bissaka is top 3 RB in the world.
Martial still has the potential to become world class in my opinion, but seems to lack the right mentality.

That's it. De Gea used to be absolute world class (#1 GK for a while even) but he's finished, nowhere near Alisson or Ederson now. Maguire is good enough for top 4 fight, but not world class. Rashford lacks the technique and intelligence to be anything but a pace merchant - like Maguire, good enough for top 4 fight but doesn't have the potential to be a top striker for top team. He's barely developed since his debut.

This is delusion of the highest order. Paul Pogba is no where near the best midfielder in the world. He is the greatest show off midfielder in the world. All those unnecessary skills he performs are just to make his brand bigger and hinder your team.

 

[simplyared]

Seems this thread has turned into a thread about Pogba which was not my intention. However if he must be discussed then for what its worth here's my opinion on him:
I would, without doubt, value him as one of the best mf's in the world right now and without him we're fecked. He's certainly the most gifted. How anyone can say otherwise is beyond me.

 

[Ish]

All of them! You don’t play for a PL team if you are mediocre.

OP I would assume means mediocre or average in terms of PL standards. Average would be roughly the 10th place team. So which of our players are bottom half PL players would probably be the easiest way to phrase it.

Because we know they’re all professionals. The top 0,01% in their profession most probably. Way above average in that sense.

 

[simplyared]

I'll add James to my list of above mediocre after todays game. Maybe a Bryan Robson in there.