How to fix VAR “offsides”?

[RyRy11]

Option 2 is what I’ve been advocating since the start of the season. Despite people saying “the technology is there” in reality it isn’t. They need cameras all the way down the side line to be able to judge offsides without the perception skewing the view. You can’t be wrong if you are looking right down the line (which funnily enough is where the linesmen are placed most of the time). Make the defenders line 2 or 3 times thicker than the attackers and if the attackers line is past the defenders then it is offside by at least an inch or two.
It’s funny how a rule put in place to stop goal hanging is ruling out goals which are potentially level.

 

[RUCK4444]

Offside wasn’t brought in for it to be measured by millimetres and taken to the absolute extreme.

This is why technology and sport don’t mix imo.

It detracts away from the spectacle itself and shifts the attention to ‘experts’ and armchair pundits to waffle on with their opinion on every. Feckin. Decision.

There was a reason they used to ‘give the benefit of the doubt to the attacker’ for offside calls.

People need to remember this is a game and games are ultimately for entertainment purposes, anybody who enjoys VAR calls and the time it takes for a non-guaranteed correct call need to give their head a proper wobble and try to remember what attracted them to this game in the first place.

 

[Nick7]

Judge it on feet/legs.

 

[sullydnl]

Option 2 is what I’ve been advocating since the start of the season. Despite people saying “the technology is there” in reality it isn’t. They need cameras all the way down the side line to be able to judge offsides without the perception skewing the view. You can’t be wrong if you are looking right down the line (which funnily enough is where the linesmen are placed most of the time). Make the defenders line 2 or 3 times thicker than the attackers and if the attackers line is past the defenders then it is offside by at least an inch or two.
It’s funny how a rule put in place to stop goal hanging is ruling out goals which are potentially level.

How does perspective effect the 3D imaging tech they use?

The second bold would be fine but you would then get a) calls that are still just offside and b) calls that appear to be offside but are allowed because they're not quite offside enough. At which point you get yet more complaints. It's one solution, but only if people are happy to accept those downsides instead.

 

[sullydnl]

Judge it on feet/legs.

This would help ensure that there is more of an advantage involved in offside calls but you would still get marginal ones where a toe rules someone out, which is what a lot of people seem to have an issue with.

 

[arnie_ni]

Just go with feet. Furthest foot forward for the attacker, furthest foot back for the defender. Forget this armpit or head crap

 

[adexkola]

Three’s things for me:

Firstly, the technology isn’t actually there yet. They need to have much higher FPS cameras as things are happening so quickly that it’s often a missing frame which decides the call. If they can’t afford to do this then they can use AI to predict the missing frames and still have a much more accurate call.

Secondly, it needs to be clearly defined that the pass is made when the players foot first touches the ball, not when the ball is leaving the foot. This is the only scenario possible to work with properly as it allows you to bring in a second technology to report the exact moment contact is made, either acoustically or player’s boots could be enhanced with tiny fragments of a material which react to sensors on the ball.

Thirdly, linesman should no longer be involved in offside calls. They’re really just not that good at it and it becomes pointless depending on them. Play should carry on and VAR should be used to review a decision while the game continues and if a player is ruled offside then that free kick is only awarded after the attacking phase and only if the defending team does not have an advantage. That way the game will be quicker and counter attacking football encouraged.

Why should the authorities care about encouraging counter attacking football?

 

[Buster15]

Daylight rule because it actually addresses the point of having offsides in the first place. And since players are most likely running forward, you can almost always measure by the attacker’s last foot.

But in reality what is the point of the offside law in the modern game.
It is a stupid and outdated requirement.
But if it has to be kept then why not make a small charge.
You can only be offside in the penalty area or even better in the 6 yard box.
That way, we massively reduce the the scope for offsides.

 

[Pexbo]

Why should the authorities care about encouraging counter attacking football?

Well considering the entire premise of the offside rule is to encourage attacking football, along with 3 points for a win and the silver and golden goal rules I'd say it's something they have historically always done.

Football is a form of entertainment and attacking play is entertaining.

 

[adexkola]

Well considering the entire premise of the offside rule is to encourage attacking football, along with 3 points for a win and the silver and golden goal rules I'd say it's something they have historically always done.

Football is a form of entertainment and attacking play is entertaining.

Counter attacking football specifically, was my question, although I agree with the premise being applied to attacking in general whether it's through counter attacking, tiki taka, pressing or whatever.

 

[Pexbo]

Counter attacking football specifically, was my question, although I agree with the premise being applied to attacking in general whether it's through counter attacking, tiki taka, pressing or whatever.

I'm not talking about encouraging the philosophy of counter attacking. I'm talking about the actual scenario of encouraging counter attacks (at a minimum the continuation of play) in favour of blowing the whistle for every offside decision. If the player is offside and the defender has the better of him, I'd much rather see the defender and defending team given the chance to capitalise on the opposition being out of position than what happens now with play stopped, everyone jogging back into position in their own half and play slowly creeping forward again.

 

[arthurka]

That’s fine for subjective decisions but “offside“ is not supposed to be subjective

Nothing subjective daylight rule was a similar idea, if it isn't clear it isn't offside.

 

[sullydnl]

Nothing subjective daylight rule was a similar idea, if it isn't clear it isn't offside.

There was never a daylight rule.

I believe other leagues have tried something like this though (in terms of only having VAR give an offside if it's obvious to the eye). Then an offside isn't given, the TV broadcaster uses its own lines to highlight this, fans are livid.

(Edit - This is what I was thinking of: https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/footbal...o-replay-controversy-mars-aleague-grand-final)

Which was always one of the problems with the argument that football shouldn't use any tech. Regardless of what football itself does, the TV broadcasters and fans will keep using whatever tech they have available to them to criticise the decisions.

 

[Fox_Chrys]

For me its simple do two things.

1 - Change the rule where it can be any part of the body to just the feet, so just look at the feet and ignore rest of body positioning.
2 - Have 5 seconds to make the decision, if its not clear cut enough to do it quickly, and lines need to be drawn etc. then give the decision to the striker.

Offside was created to stop goal hanging, its currently going too far.

 

[limerickcitykid]

Opt.1 - Bring back the “daylight” rule

Some of the older posters will remember this. The rule was basically that there had to be “daylight” between the attacker and the defender for the goal to be ruled out. This was eventually changed, with officials citing the fact it was impossible to judge “daylight” in real-time. With VAR, they wouldn’t have to, since the technology could do this for them.

Pro’s - we would definitely see more goals. Dan Burn and Teemu Pukki’s foals from yesterday would both have counted, for example.

Con’s - we would still have to trust the technology can measure in millimetres

Nope, it still never existed. How can you bring back a rule which never existed?

 

[sullydnl]

Nope, it still never existed. How can you bring back a rule which never existed?

Plus even if you decided to introduce it for the first time now, AFAIAA you would then need a camera to be running alongside play at the correct angle at all times to determine "daylight" correctly, as opposed to the 3D imaging currently used. Plus even with a daylight rule there would be millimetre calls, the line would just be in a different place. It's a terrible idea.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

I keep banging on about this but for me the fix to VAR is very simple. Just eliminate all freeze framing & slow motion from it entirely. Have someone watching the match on a monitor and if something is catastrophically wrong to the extent that it is noticeable at normal speed, then overturn it (e.g. the Aubameyang goal vs. you lot). People want VAR to fix the colossal feckups, not to tell whether someone's toenail is offside. Plus this way, you eliminate the margin of error and you have far less impact on the way the game is officiated.

 

[FootballHQ]

Please change it.

If most of your body is ahead of last defender you're offside e.g. "it looks offside"

If your big toe is ahead or beard you're not offside.

That is all.

Too many goals being ruled out by ridiculous petty intepretation. Refs not even going to the screen to have a look and decide for themselves is an insult aswell.

 

[Cpt Negative]

It seems they review every goal against Liverpool to find a way to disallow it

 

[Mrs Smoker]

How do the other leagues deal with VAR and offsides?

 

[Irrational.]

I keep banging on about this but for me the fix to VAR is very simple. Just eliminate all freeze framing & slow motion from it entirely. Have someone watching the match on a monitor and if something is catastrophically wrong to the extent that it is noticeable at normal speed, then overturn it (e.g. the Aubameyang goal vs. you lot). People want VAR to fix the colossal feckups, not to tell whether someone's toenail is offside. Plus this way, you eliminate the margin of error and you have far less impact on the way the game is officiated.

This is the way it should be done.

Feck VAR off for offsides. Their technology looks shit and it looks like it's being analysed on a Sega Mega Drive.

 

[Hulksmash]

How do the other leagues deal with VAR and offsides?

Like they do in premier league. VAR can measure offside as close as 40cm. So they accept it. There's only 1 fact, he's offside or not, which can be measured by computers

 

[Sara125]

I remember someone on here said they should make it so that it is only offside if your whole body is offside, similar to the whole ball over the line thing, and I agree

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Simple, if any body part the striker can score with is onside, he is onside. feck this eye lash/toe nail offside decisions it's murdering the game. 4 in 2 days. They are LOOKING for reasons to disallow goals.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Did they change it a few years ago? It never seemed to be this harsh on the forward. More goals are getting disallowed than ever.

 

[Castia]

Simple, if any body part the striker can score with is onside, he is onside. feck this eye lash/toe nail offside decisions it's murdering the game. 4 in 2 days. They are LOOKING for reasons to disallow goals.

Yup Souness said the same. It should be the other way around, if a goal scoring body part is onside that should be enough.

 

[FootballHQ]

Sorry didn't see the VAR offside thread, can put this thread in that.

 

[cyberman]

Did they change it a few years ago? It never seemed to be this harsh on the forward. More goals are getting disallowed than ever.

Well forwards were getting legit goals disallowed when clearly offside etc.
If anybody notices, all those calls are gone now. Consigned to the history bin

 

[charlenefan]

Bring back the daylight rule

No idea why it ever changed from that?

 

[duffer]

I'd love to see a game played with no offside rule at all.

 

[limerickcitykid]

Bring back the daylight rule

No idea why it ever changed from that?

It never existed so it never changed.

 

[cyberman]

Yup Souness said the same. It should be the other way around, if a goal scoring body part is onside that should be enough.

So then we have the exact same thing but the other way? Its the exact same principle
Hes only a millimetre off, those lines aren't straight etc

 

[izzydiggler]

You either use the technology to apply the law or you don’t...if it’s a tiny measurement and it takes ages, it’s still being used correctly. If they started trying to apply loads more ‘leeway’ rules, it would be a disaster waiting to happen.

The problem is how much it takes away from the flow and enjoyment of a game. Seems the next logical step will be some form of NFL-esque ‘coaches challenge’ to minimise the stops.

 

[FootballHQ]

It never existed so it never changed.

Still a better intepretation than the petty one being used this season.

 

[Castia]

So then we have the exact same thing but the other way? Its the exact same principle
Hes only a millimetre off, those lines aren't straight etc

It would reduce the goals disallowed dramatically whilst adding more goals to the game.

 

[cyberman]

It would reduce the goals disallowed dramatically whilst adding more goals to the game.

It wouldnt. It would bring in the clearer disallowed goals that nobody argues about into play so youre just swapping around the problem.

 

[limerickcitykid]

It wouldnt. It would bring in the clearer disallowed goals that nobody argues about into play so youre just swapping around the problem.

It'd also change the way attackers make runs and how defenders play offside lines. Claiming it would automatically mean more goals is just moronically simplistic.

 

[(...)]

I can't believe they haven't implemented an error margin in these offside calls.
You make 50 ref draw lines, not even judging an offside, just draw lines on a set of 10 images, and you'll get your margin of error.

 

[cyberman]

It'd also change the way attackers make runs and how defenders play offside lines. Claiming it would automatically mean more goals is just moronically simplistic.

Exactly. Theyll just hang further forward and we have the exact same problem, just slightly higher up on the screen

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

1. Decide that Only feet can be offside.
2. Don’t use cameras with sub-standard frame rates.

AI could probably adjudicate too.