I apologise Ole!

Bilbo

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Calm down lads. I didnt' want to disrespect Ole as i'm a fan and i love him on the wheel.

I just said that, in my view, he is not a tactical genius and probably never will be and i stand by that. But i also mentioned that he has proven to be good enough and better than most thought from tactial point of view.
I think a lot of fans (I'm not referring to you here BTW) often confuse tactics with preferred style of play. Guardiola is the only working manager that I would describe as an outright tactical genius. He raised the bar in a way that few others ever have.

Ole wont get credit from a lot of people because he doesn't choose to play with a high press, and this is currently fashionable amongst those who believe that its the only way to win matches (the OTT praise for Hassenhutl is a great example of this). IMO to be a strong tactician you don't have to have a team that looks like Peps do, but you do need to build a team that are proficient in implementing your preferred style of play, and Ole is currently doing that as well as anybody, even despite the fact that he probably doesn't yet have the complete squad that he would like.
 

troylocker

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Season still not over, everything is up in the air, I for one am still not 100% convinced but I am not 100% out either...I'm still 50-50 and waiting for what might happen.
Does people still think he is clueless, in over his head, a PE teacher, might still be the worst manager in the league, wouldn't get another job in a top 10 league etc.?

You are only guilty of these classics:
" No matter the results vs Everton he should be sacked, infact he should have been sacked monthas ago but lets nto get into that. It sounds bad to say this but a win vs everton will do us more harm then good, season si still long and we get a proper coach during the break we can still easily make..."
" short term pain for long term gain. After 2 years of a rollercoaster performance it is better to get it done with then keep on going like this. Just like someone said "Losing a battle tο win the war" "
" he needs to go and be replaced by a PROPER manager! "
" Amen, and we will continue to have resuls like these as, imo, he is nowhere good enough to manage a top team"

Are you sure there is nothing here you might want to apologize just a little bit for? ;)

We don't know where this Club Legends' roof as a manager is yet, but we should at least see now that there is plenty of room under his floor. The claims above is clearly not warranted and admitting to get that wrong should bring you nothing but joy. You don't have to be 100% convinced he is the second comming of SAF, there is heavy evidence he is none of the above and enough evidence to get a united fanbase behind him to see how far he can take us.

Even the rivals have stopped laughing now, all the "Whally at the wheel"-threads in rival forums have changed names and have stopped rooting for us to win to keep him in the job. Now it's back to being about us being cheaters and cnuts like in the good old days. You love to see it!
 
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SAFMUTD

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All managers, just as players, are just as good as their last results. Im supporting Ole at this moment, only a fool wouldn't with the current results, but I'll be the first one to ask for him to get sacked if things start to get ugly. There's no such thing as supporting someone no matter what.

Just as I would do with any manager or player, this "please forgive me Ole" is nonsense. Nothing is nor should be granted at a club like ours.
 

Zen86

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All managers, just as players, are just as good as their last results. Im supporting Ole at this moment, only a fool wouldn't with the current results, but I'll be the first one to ask for him to get sacked if things start to get ugly. There's no such thing as supporting someone no matter what.

Just as I would do with any manager or player, this "please forgive me Ole" is nonsense. Nothing is nor should be granted at a club like ours.
Great stuff, Manchester United needs more fans like you. Keep up the good work.
 

Zlatan 7

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Why fans underestimate tactics is beyond me.

We lost 6-1 to Spurs, lost to Arsenal so clearly it isnt just the right mentality and players.

After those results, he went with James and Mata against Newcastle, Chelsea etc... until we got the right results. Playing Pogba on the left was a tactical decision.

I dont get where people get this idea that he just puts the players on the pitch and they decide how to win the game.

Against City, we drew 0-0, they barely created, we barely created. Against Burnley he went with a tall strong side, again tactics.

Against SU away, was first time since Spurs we saw Pogba back in midfield.

Against Liverpool, we stopped their attacks, that is tactics btw.

Liverpool at home, was different tactics.
I’m convinced It’s purely because he used to play for us and only managed in Norway and a brief stint at a doomed cardiff. That’s it. Minds were made up.

the amount of different ways we’ve set up against different teams, the players chosen and where and the points we’ve got from those decisions means nothing.
 

SAFMUTD

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Great stuff, Manchester United needs more fans like you. Keep up the good work.
Am I wrong? the only people you should support no matter what is family. This is a football club, results are expected. You can bang your chest and call yourself a true red or whatever but at the end of the day like I said you're only as good as your results.
 

romufc

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I’m convinced It’s purely because he used to play for us and only managed in Norway and a brief stint at a doomed cardiff. That’s it. Minds were made up.

the amount of different ways we’ve set up against different teams, the players chosen and where and the points we’ve got from those decisions means nothing.
It is 100% because of that. Also the fact that he doesn't have one way of playing really got to some fans, they wanted to see a philosophy but were not ready to give him time. We have scored some very good goals under Ole, some good plays, but the fans say if you put good players on the pitch they will score good goals...

Its not easy for a manager to be on the brink of the sack 2 times in a year. The Burnley game and Leipzig away game and on both occasions he has turned it around.

Hopefully he has learnt along the way and avoids such a slump again.
 

Zen86

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Am I wrong? the only people you should support no matter what is family. This is a football club, results are expected. You can bang your chest and call yourself a true red or whatever but at the end of the day like I said you're only as good as your results.
Call for sackings as soon as things get difficult? Yes, you are wrong. We wouldn’t be in the position we are now if we took that approach.
 

SAFMUTD

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Call for sackings as soon as things get difficult? Yes, you are wrong. We wouldn’t be in the position we are now if we took that approach.
Maybe I was misunderstood or didnt explain myself well enough. I didn't meant "as soon as things get difficult". I said if things get ugly, by that I mean poor results over a sustained period. Of course no one is going to demand sacking him if we lose a couple of games, but imagine next year we are drose and are no where near challenging nor near top 4, of course many will ask for his head. Its only natural.

Thats why these "I apologise" threads are nonsense to me, things can change around real fast in football and many posters could end up swallowing their own words by promising eternal love to a manager.
 

westmeath

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The apology is ridiculous. Ole is not the second coming nor is he as bad as I believed he was about a year ago. I’m overjoyed to be proven wrong, I’m always going to be a complete pessimist.

I have to admit to posting regularly against SAF in 06, in fact I think I signed up to the caf that year just to express that view. Yes I was completely wrong, delighted to be wrong but I would never apologise for my opinion. ( there were plenty of fans who wanted him gone then, not just me)
 

Wedge

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Am I wrong? the only people you should support no matter what is family. This is a football club, results are expected. You can bang your chest and call yourself a true red or whatever but at the end of the day like I said you're only as good as your results.
Well said old chap
 

Zen86

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Maybe I was misunderstood or didnt explain myself well enough. I didn't meant "as soon as things get difficult". I said if things get ugly, by that I mean poor results over a sustained period. Of course no one is going to demand sacking him if we lose a couple of games, but imagine next year we are drose and are no where near challenging nor near top 4, of course many will ask for his head. Its only natural.

Thats why these "I apologise" threads are nonsense to me, things can change around real fast in football and many posters could end up swallowing their own words by promising eternal love to a manager.
Oh of course, no one is untouchable and if things were to deteriorate beyond repair then he would rightly go. I misunderstood your post. Although that said, I always believe the manager should have the chance to steady the ship assuming things aren’t completely fubar’d.

I agree that this thread is probably a bit silly. It demonstrates just how all or nothing people tend to be in their views though. When we hit a rough patch, and we will, the knee jerk on here will be massive.
 

Zlatan 7

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Oh of course, no one is untouchable and if things were to deteriorate beyond repair then he would rightly go. I misunderstood your post. Although that said, I always believe the manager should have the chance to steady the ship assuming things aren’t completely fubar’d.

I agree that this thread is probably a bit silly. It demonstrates just how all or nothing people tend to be in their views though. When we hit a rough patch, and we will, the knee jerk on here will be massive.
I took the thread more as apologising or backtracking on calling him a charlatan, pe teacher, out of his depth, wishing defeat for the sack. That kind of nonsense.
People are always going to disagree and get twitchy about bad runs of form and stuff, it’s just the over the topness of the criticism we had to put up with seeing at the time.
 

Zen86

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I took the thread more as apologising or backtracking on calling him a charlatan, pe teacher, out of his depth, wishing defeat for the sack. That kind of nonsense.
People are always going to disagree and get twitchy about bad runs of form and stuff, it’s just the over the topness of the criticism we had to put up with seeing at the time.
That’s been my main gripe over the last year, the name calling and outright disrespect. “I apologise for being a tw*t” is probably a more apt thread name.
 

patty123

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I, personally, felt it was cringeworthy when I read United fans calling for Solskjaer's head at any time over the past two years. It was like they knew nothing about Manchester United's history. As if they didn't know for a fact that Busby took six years to win anything. Or that Fergie took six years to win anything.

If you don't have the patience to support Ole and see his whole long-term plan through to fruition then I'm afraid you have chosen the wrong club to support.

There's nothing more "cringe-worthy" than a UTD fan throwing a wobbler at people who dont share his opinions and saying "you have chosen the wrong club to support" whilst at the same time getting his facts wrong as "Fergie took six years to win anything" Really, really, as unless memory is playing games, AF joined Nov 86, won FA Cup May 90 (3 yrs 5 months) and while its a nothing cup these days thanks to us refusing to defend it back in 2000 it was then, CWC 91 (4yrs 5 months) against a barca side who be Champion league winners a year later, now I know I left school early but hey even I know that's not "6 years".

So before going off on people for not sharing your opinion, you might want to check your facts.
 

rotherham_red

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Does people still think he is clueless, in over his head, a PE teacher, might still be the worst manager in the league, wouldn't get another job in a top 10 league etc.?

You are only guilty of these classics:
" No matter the results vs Everton he should be sacked, infact he should have been sacked monthas ago but lets nto get into that. It sounds bad to say this but a win vs everton will do us more harm then good, season si still long and we get a proper coach during the break we can still easily make..."
" short term pain for long term gain. After 2 years of a rollercoaster performance it is better to get it done with then keep on going like this. Just like someone said "Losing a battle tο win the war" "
" he needs to go and be replaced by a PROPER manager! "
" Amen, and we will continue to have resuls like these as, imo, he is nowhere good enough to manage a top team"


Are you sure there is nothing here you might want to apologize just a little bit for? ;)

We don't know where this Club Legends' roof as a manager is yet, but we should at least see now that there is plenty of room under his floor. The claims above is clearly not warranted and admitting to get that wrong should bring you nothing but joy. You don't have to be 100% convinced he is the second comming of SAF, there is heavy evidence he is none of the above and enough evidence to get a united fanbase behind him to see how far he can take us.

Even the rivals have stopped laughing now, all the "Whally at the wheel"-threads in rival forums have changed names and have stopped rooting for us to win to keep him in the job. Now it's back to being about us being cheaters and cnuts like in the good old days. You love to see it!
Good Lord :lol: :houllier:
 

rotherham_red

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Am I wrong? the only people you should support no matter what is family. This is a football club, results are expected. You can bang your chest and call yourself a true red or whatever but at the end of the day like I said you're only as good as your results.
In a word, yes.
 

glazed

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Were you dropped on your head when you was a baby?
I actually was but that's another story

In other words, you're more or less prepared to be entertained while it lasts, but not to give any credit?
I don't see it as different from the long runs Ole has been on before. And this season is in any case an outlier for obvious reasons because fixture congestion hits City and Liverpool much harder. If we're still riding high in summer 2022 I'll be convinced. I just don't think the structural problems have gone away.

You acknowledge he is playing entertaining football, getting good performances out of the players (and results, which you didn't mention) then come up with a statement like the bolded.
The point is that he is the charming front man for a very ugly regime that you don't want to look at. And that is exactly why he was put in, not because he was qualified. It's an ugly truth that results don't change. That said I'm enjoying the run and long may it last.

Fernandes' brilliance does not exist in a vacuum, he is allowed to thrive and create in the context of the team's tactics and strategy.
Yes he was the missing piece. All the other players are so better much better when he plays well. Cannot be denied. That doesn't alter our dependence on his presence though. When he runs out of gas, so does the team. Or at least that's been the case up to now
 

Eriku

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Yes he was the missing piece. All the other players are so better much better when he plays well. Cannot be denied. That doesn't alter our dependence on his presence though. When he runs out of gas, so does the team. Or at least that's been the case up to now
We scored two against Liverpool with him watching from the bench. We’re not that toothless without him, clearly.
 

United492

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I support the team, I support the club and I support the individual players. Clearly I'm a fan so I reserve judgment to be able criticise all of those as and when I see fit. That's because I'm a fan, and fans aren't always rational - who is?

I've supported Utd for 40 years, which is probably 30 more than most on here and less than quite a few. I've never hated a manager, hate is a very strong word. I've disagreed with appointments though. Moyes for instance. He brought in his own back room staff and literally ripped the heart out of the football side of the club. LVG - mega CV, won the FA cup in his time here, maybe given another year, we may have seen a bit more fruits of his labour, but the 'journey' was like reading War and Peace.

Mourinho was the right manager at the wrong time. He should have been appointed straight after SAF. The squad was ageing, on the decline. Mourinho had the additional gravitas that Moyes didn't in terms of attracting big players. It was clearly evident that the really big players, while possibly attracted by Utd, were unsure of Moyes and so we ended up with the players that we did. Mourinho would have got us some good players, although they would likely be 'ageing', in football terms.

Ole. Well, I was surprised when he was announced as interim manager. Caretaker. I was again surprised by his permanent appointment to be honest. But he has taken care of this team, the squad, and I for one am firmly onside with him as manager at the moment. But as I said, I'm a fan so I'm fickle, but it'll take a monster loss of form for me to change my mind now. Ole has got me enjoying watching us again. Win, lose or draw, I mostly enjoy our games. We've got nervy, backs to the wall, last minute winners, the odd win by 2+ goals. Not quite like in the halcyon days, it's rollercoastery, but it's the closest we've been. For that I thank the man.

We're due to absolutely thrash someone soon. Bring it on.
 

Eriku

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No. But I think you're generally right on that point. Liverpool's been an isolated occurrence so far. But hopefully the start of a change.
Pfft, what do you know? You’re just some bloke!

Joking aside, I do agree with that. Thankfully we’re seeing people step up at the right time.
 

Listar

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No. But I think you're generally right on that point. Liverpool's been an isolated occurrence so far. But hopefully the start of a change.
Yes Liverpool is an isolated occurrence. If we keep conceding early goals to teams surely it will come back to haunt us especially when we play against better teams like city and liverpool, obviously not going to take into account isolated occurrence like the one against liverpool. We will likely get smacked when we play against a big team (games with chelsea city and pool earlier in the season are isolated occurrence). Case in point, we lost against arsenal, tottenham, PSG, Lizpig (you have to also understand the first two games vs the latter two teams are isolated occurrence).

We will lose against Arsenal this Saturday unless it is an isolated occurrence.
 

NinjaZombie

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I’m convinced It’s purely because he used to play for us and only managed in Norway and a brief stint at a doomed cardiff. That’s it. Minds were made up.

the amount of different ways we’ve set up against different teams, the players chosen and where and the points we’ve got from those decisions means nothing.
I feel like him winning the league in Molde gets ignored a lot. Sure it's just the Norwegian league but he has experience in managing a league winning campaign all the same. He also won it with Molde, not some domestic powerhouse like Rosenberg.
 

justsomebloke

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Yes Liverpool is an isolated occurrence. If we keep conceding early goals to teams surely it will come back to haunt us especially when we play against better teams like city and liverpool, obviously not going to take into account isolated occurrence like the one against liverpool. We will likely get smacked when we play against a big team (games with chelsea city and pool earlier in the season are isolated occurrence). Case in point, we lost against arsenal, tottenham, PSG, Lizpig (you have to also understand the first two games vs the latter two teams are isolated occurrence).

We will lose against Arsenal this Saturday unless it is an isolated occurrence.
Not sure what you're on about, but my point was that the cup game against Liverpool is the only example so far of the team performing well offensively without Bruno on the pitch, since he arrived.
 

CG1010

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Am I wrong? the only people you should support no matter what is family. This is a football club, results are expected. You can bang your chest and call yourself a true red or whatever but at the end of the day like I said you're only as good as your results.
Imagine you are a marketing head of a product and whose sales keep going up and down cyclically. Should the company fire you as soon as sales dip in a quarter, especially if you have delivered double digit sales growth before that? I would find that to be incredibly short-sighted and I apply the same principle here.
 

FatherWolff

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Wonder where this enigma87 character has gone. He only seem to pop up once we play bad and there is a smell of blood. Maybe it’s like he said. He only has the time when we are bad.. But he should be posting in this thread.
 

SAFMUTD

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Imagine you are a marketing head of a product and whose sales keep going up and down cyclically. Should the company fire you as soon as sales dip in a quarter, especially if you have delivered double digit sales growth before that? I would find that to be incredibly short-sighted and I apply the same principle here.
Its not the same in football but for the sake of it in that hypothetical example you make I would ask firstly why did the sales went down? Did the marketing head fecked up?

Do double digits means what translated in to football? Thropies?

Anyway back to reality as I explained in a post before I'm not talking about a simple dip in form I'm talking about missing top 4 kind of failure. In that scenario of course he should be sacked, now its all fun and candies because we are challenging but that can change really fast thats why I dont like threads like this who swear eternal love to a manager because a good run.
 

CG1010

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Its not the same in football but for the sake of it in that hypothetical example you make I would ask firstly why did the sales went down? Did the marketing head fecked up?

Do double digits means what translated in to football? Thropies?

Anyway back to reality as I explained in a post before I'm not talking about a simple dip in form I'm talking about missing top 4 kind of failure. In that scenario of course he should be sacked, now its all fun and candies because we are challenging but that can change really fast thats why I dont like threads like this who swear eternal love to a manager because a good run.
In the context of football, the sales going down is a period of poor form. It happens to every team, big or small. Double digits growth means clear progress and improvement (which Ole has delivered undoubtedly now).

When you say we should sack him if he misses top 4, it still misses a lot of context. What caused suddenly the team to deteriorate so much that they went outside top 4? I can see many situations where I wouldn't sack Ole even if we didn't get top 4, such as a big injury crisis, or some teams performing at an extremely high level which we clearly don't have the players to match. Of course if the team again delivers a 60-point something in the league without any mitigating factors, Ole should be sacked.

My overall point is that you cannot have knee jerk reactions to simply short-term results without considering if there is an overall improvement being made. This is why many, including me, haven't asked for Ole to be sacked, as we could see some less desirable results could be due to poor squad/injuries/no pre-season etc., and there was plenty of evidence of gradual improvements for those who wanted to see any positivity.
 

Swiss_Red89

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I think a lot of fans (I'm not referring to you here BTW) often confuse tactics with preferred style of play. Guardiola is the only working manager that I would describe as an outright tactical genius. He raised the bar in a way that few others ever have.

Ole wont get credit from a lot of people because he doesn't choose to play with a high press, and this is currently fashionable amongst those who believe that its the only way to win matches (the OTT praise for Hassenhutl is a great example of this). IMO to be a strong tactician you don't have to have a team that looks like Peps do, but you do need to build a team that are proficient in implementing your preferred style of play, and Ole is currently doing that as well as anybody, even despite the fact that he probably doesn't yet have the complete squad that he would like.
I've to agree with you. Maybe a lot of people, including me, have developed an exaggerated expection of the tactical ability of coaches because of Guardiola and his "modern" style of play. Maybe Ole is suffering from it a bit.

I think there are still doubts from a lot of people if Ole has the tactical ability of not only Guardiola, but also of the likes of Tuchel, Nagelsmann or Pocchettino. And you can be sure as soon as we will lose a few games, the critics will be out in full force again. I for one am also still not quite sure on this, but i don't think he has to because what he is doing seems to work and fits perfect with the history and the character of this club. And btw, i certainly won't turn on him if things would go worse again.
 

patty123

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I've disagreed with appointments though. Moyes for instance. He brought in his own back room staff
Can someone rationally explain why some of our fans get such a hard on over this ? As every bloody manager always brings in his own staff, whether it's here or elsewhere.
 

Eriku

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Can someone rationally explain why some of our fans get such a hard on over this ? As every bloody manager always brings in his own staff, whether it's here or elsewhere.
Sure. He essentially gutted the institutional memory of the best club in England. For a manager that has never won a trophy, and has never managed anything like a club of our size, it was an absolutely idiotic move. Could at least have kept them around to see how we have done things at United throughout the Fergie years.

Seems obvious to me.
 

Slik

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The apology is ridiculous. Ole is not the second coming nor is he as bad as I believed he was about a year ago. I’m overjoyed to be proven wrong, I’m always going to be a complete pessimist.

I have to admit to posting regularly against SAF in 06, in fact I think I signed up to the caf that year just to express that view. Yes I was completely wrong, delighted to be wrong but I would never apologise for my opinion. ( there were plenty of fans who wanted him gone then, not just me)
Maybe you should just assess yourself and your state of being. It’s more to do with you than the managers. As a fan , you don’t only support in good times.
 

westmeath

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Maybe you should just assess yourself and your state of being. It’s more to do with you than the managers. As a fan , you don’t only support in good times.
I’m not sure what you mean. As a supporter I feel entitled and actually obliged to criticise the manager if I believe they are not doing a good job. I may be wrong but it is not a fan’s role to live in complete denial. When you think it’s wrong you’ve got to express that view.
 

Bilbo

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I dont like threads like this who swear eternal love to a manager because a good run.
I dont think that was the intended sentiment of this thread. A lot of posters have been unnecessarily harsh on him in the past
 

Bilbo

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I've to agree with you. Maybe a lot of people, including me, have developed an exaggerated expection of the tactical ability of coaches because of Guardiola and his "modern" style of play. Maybe Ole is suffering from it a bit.

I think there are still doubts from a lot of people if Ole has the tactical ability of not only Guardiola, but also of the likes of Tuchel, Nagelsmann or Pocchettino. And you can be sure as soon as we will lose a few games, the critics will be out in full force again. I for one am also still not quite sure on this, but i don't think he has to because what he is doing seems to work and fits perfect with the history and the character of this club. And btw, i certainly won't turn on him if things would go worse again.
With regards to your first paragraph I think pretty much every manager suffers in some way from what Guardiola has achieved with his football. Anyone who raises the bar in anything is also pushing everybody else further away from it, but even Pep is not infallible and he also needs a lot of things to go for him in order to reach his potential.

I'm honestly no longer concerned about Ole as a tactician. I really wouldn't ever even think about it that much if I wasn't on here. He has a lot of peers as a tactician, and he will beat them a lot and will be beaten a lot. Same for everybody at that level.

His man management is what might set him apart from the rest and give United an edge. He has not been given near enough credit for what he has achieved behind the scenes, and I defy anyone to disagree that our team all look willing to run through walls for this team at the moment.
 

Eriku

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With regards to your first paragraph I think pretty much every manager suffers in some way from what Guardiola has achieved with his football. Anyone who raises the bar in anything is also pushing everybody else further away from it, but even Pep is not infallible and he also needs a lot of things to go for him in order to reach his potential.

I'm honestly no longer concerned about Ole as a tactician. I really wouldn't ever even think about it that much if I wasn't on here. He has a lot of peers as a tactician, and he will beat them a lot and will be beaten a lot. Same for everybody at that level.

His man management is what might set him apart from the rest and give United an edge. He has not been given near enough credit for what he has achieved behind the scenes, and I defy anyone to disagree that our team all look willing to run through walls for this team at the moment.
100% agree on the last paragraph! Him clearing the squad and not getting replacements in in the short term was an incredibly ballsy move, and Bruno seems to have sparked our whole squad upping the effort they put in. Not to mention our resilience, and the kind of comebacks we’ve had this season. Our heads won’t drop the next time we lose, I’m sure of it.