He can have a groundsman job 
If Giggs is not the next manager, do you want him to stay?
- Thread starter Sky1981
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
We shouldn't care how he goes about proving himself because the onus is on him to create a track record that puts his name into the reckoning. If every manager whoever started out worried about how success at Everton/Southampton wasn't enough to earn themselves big moves surely we wouldn't see managers breaking out every couple of years. It is with this in mind that the apparent efforts to fast track Ryan into the dugout are so frustrating.
Absolutely. He needs to get out of his comfort zone and prove that he is actually a good manager.
You're judging somebody's capability on where they are from. I don't really know why it's tolerated. The FA run the UEFA Pro license. The clue is in the name. It's a European standard and is run in accordance with their criteria.
As a Man Utd fan I do care about our legends and hope they do well. Maybe I should join those with their knickers in a twist whining about something that hasn't happened and tell him to feck off for having the temerity to want a job.
I have no idea either. No one knows what he is like as a coach, but yet people giving him so much grief.
Not every man is Guardiola and neither are the two clubs' circumstances similar. Do you see a potential GOAT in our attack or do we have a couple of once in a generation CMs entering their prime here? We are facing a major rebuilding job and we aren't close to where we need to be, these aren't circumstances to throw a rookie at the deep-end.
As I've pointed out before, I'm just talking hypothetically. This isn't a 'Why we should appoint Giggs' argument, as I don't want Giggs.
Still, whatever manager you appoint, some leap of faith is required.
He needs to work with a successful manager at United, not something he has done so far.
Not necessarily in terms of trophies, but someone who can get players to perform well,
get the team playing well and has some tactical awareness with good decision making.
I dont think he has experienced that since he hung up his boots.
Not necessarily in terms of trophies, but someone who can get players to perform well,
get the team playing well and has some tactical awareness with good decision making.
I dont think he has experienced that since he hung up his boots.
Guardiola is a good manager, so he would probably be like Simeone today. We forgot that Guardiola is only 45, he is very young.
Edit: He probably would have been hired by a club like Malaga or Sevilla.
The reason behind the team not playing well or being successful is because of Ryan Giggs the cafe has decided. Not at all the managers fault. However going against the narrative, against the flavour of the month I do agree with you.
As far as I can see he isn't exactly management material. No disrespect to Giggs but if I compare him to other succefull managers he lacks charisma and authority that you see among other great leaders. Nothing wrong with that but as a front man for a club of our size you need this special personality to survive in the long run.
I can see him as a ambassador or similar in the future. Traveling around, drink and eat and bed others women. (Sorry couldn't resist....)
I can see him as a ambassador or similar in the future. Traveling around, drink and eat and bed others women. (Sorry couldn't resist....)
Exactly my thoughts.
I think we really need an experienced management team that compliment each other in the vein of Fergy/Quirez, rather than the 'master-apprentice' model we have at the moment - we can go back to that model once we start winning competitions again and get some stability. For the sake of his own development, Giggs needs time away from the club to get new experiences and learn about other footballing environments anyway, so no slight on his ability is meant.
That's true as well.
No, needs to make a name for himself in management first
What past? Those four games at the end of the season when he solicited the help of some of the coaches working with our youth set-up? Yeah, he should have sent out a requisition to get some "top" coaches to take him through those 4 games.
There are plenty of British managers and coaches working at British clubs. You need to open your eyes. Anyway, we were talking about Butt's eligibility for the job, not for a manager at United.
Or may be it is coming altogether now after the initial settling in period for Gary. Also, he employed Paco to help him; which can also means like all good managers working with language barrier he got help to communicate his ideas to the player more clearly. Nothing wrong with that.
Also, if Valencia go on to lose the next 3 games, will be be Paco's fault or Nev's?
jb already explained this part. It's your choice if you want to remain obtuse blinded by your hate or you want to understand what went on.
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I want him to go elsewhere. Whilst he's here any manager we get is reminded every day they are just keeping the seat warm for him. Plus i dont think we should have a man of such questionable morals as the face of our club.
As said a coach or a manager can only be judged by results. I've yet to see what had qualified Butt to get a promotion although tbf I believe its more of a kick upstairs rather then anything else, especially after the horrible performances at U19 level
Regarding Gary, he could have achieved that with a translator. Instead he hired an assistant manager whose got more experience in football coaching and management that both the Nevilles (and the class of 92) combined. Pako had been around since 1996, serving as assistant at clubs like Liverpool and Valencia and also as manager for the past 3 years. Which is kind of strange considering that Gaz is an interim manager and had already an assistant manager in place
Also please do make a list of all quality British managers still around. 1-2 names would suffice
First of all, before you qualify for UEFA A Licence you have to go through 3 other courses which are fully run by the FA (level 1, 2 and 3). UEFA licence A simply follows UEFA guidelines but its fully run by the FA. That explains why the mentality of British managers seems completely different to that of let say the Spanish ones.
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That shouldn't equate to waving all standards just to write a fairytale, I don't think he should feck off per se but if does have designs on the job, which he does, I fail to see how he can work under a new manager after this season. If he wants to serve as a coach, AM or any other task that the new manager offers him then who are we to deny him that though there are difficulties associated with building trust with someone who was gunning for the job you got.
No. Before you can have a UEFA A license you are required to have a UEFA B license.
http://www.thefa.com/st-georges-park/fa-learning/fa-national-courses/the-fa-uefa-a-licence
And I never said it did. But I think a person who gave us a fantastic 20 year career as a player deserves a little more respect than the shit he gets on here for things he hasn't even done yet.
Respect yes but it's the overstating of his credentials that most are against and the labeling of those who refuse to be hoodwinked into buying another ill-fated fairytale as haters. Being of the opinion that Giggs ought to prove himself before taking the most important post in the club is neither disrespect nor hate it's just common sense.
You do realise who the youth team coach (not manager) was between '89 and '93 when Giggs, Scholes, Beckham and the Nevilles came through don't you?
No point in him staying here to be assistant to someone else.
I'd be thrilled if he went out, proved himself to be a capable manager and got the job here on merit. That isn't going to happen unless he does that.
I'd be thrilled if he went out, proved himself to be a capable manager and got the job here on merit. That isn't going to happen unless he does that.
Spot on.
If you are applying this to the United youth setup and U19's etc then you very very clearly have no understanding of what youth coaching is all about. With respect to Butt you have absolutely no idea what courses, study or training he has been operating under so how can you dismiss him so?
The results of the U19's are not and should not be a measure of how the players are developing. There are typically a wide range of factors which can and do affect results at this age group level. The primary purpose of U19 football is to develop players. There is a significant difference between developing players and developing teams. You can not do both effectively at the same time when looking at long term measurement of player development. Often at U19 level and other age group levels there are parameters and targets that have to be met which are not able to be measured by results. Its a nice cherry on the top to have youth teams winning but the real prize is producing players who can become professional players at senior level.
If you concentrate on results of youth teams as the measuring stick then you are simply developing a youth team which is significantly different to developing a youth player. Throughout the teen years there are very large changes in mental, emotional, physical and technical abilities, those changes often come in bursts which are also interspersed with periods of players being out of sorts. Growth spurts mean players can lose touch and coordination for a few weeks to a month or more, hormonal changes also have an impact on players motivation, desire, self belief and learning. Females generally finish puberty in their teens while males can finish in their early 20's. Males have a longer and slower journey through puberty and this has a significant impact on their ability to develop as a player. These are things which in top level football have been studied and are known to decent coaching setups. They are things which are factored in to a players development and understood. Applying senior team expectations to youth teams is foolish because it doesnt focus on whats important with respect to player development. The key phrase here is player development, not team development.
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Coaching and perhaps working with Butt... Yes
If our injuries keep up I'd consider him for a squad role too
If our injuries keep up I'd consider him for a squad role too
harsh. There are many decent and good managers working in leagues up and down the country. Just because top 4 clubs are scared to take chances on managers who have no 'big club' experience doesn't mean that there are not good managers/good coaches who followed the FA or UEFA coaching mandates.
Then the ire should be at those responsible. Not Ryan Giggs who hasn't said a word about it. How many people have been called haters for saying they don't think Giggs is ready? I never said holding that opinion was disrespectful but a lot of the stuff around here hasn't stopped at thinking he needs more experience and you don't have to go far to find examples of it.
We thought we were brave then but it ten months later it turned out that we were incredibly stupid, I doubt any top four club will be taking such a chance anytime soon. Fwiw I don't have a defined opinion on the subject you are discussing but I think British managers who have had the chances, Moyes and Rodgers in particular, have ruined it for others so it will take probably take ages before another club is willing to grant British managers a chance.
He can do that at United.
No i would like to see him go and manage somewhere else. Being an assistant/coach to two underperforming managers shouldn't put you in the frame to be the manager yourself. Not at United anyway.
His best bet would be to go somewhere like Celtic or somewhere else in one of the smaller leagues and get a few trophies under his belt. Then he could have a stab at the United job.
His best bet would be to go somewhere like Celtic or somewhere else in one of the smaller leagues and get a few trophies under his belt. Then he could have a stab at the United job.
For me that's still pure arrogance though. Because he's bored/frustrated he doesn't want the manager's help on a temp basis? Actually that possibly makes him sound worse, if anything, like a whiny little schoolkid who runs off because he wasn't picked for the team first.
He should leave United anyway and get some experience before taking a high pressure job - Moyes and LVG are experienced and haven't found it easy, so it would be a bit Roy of the Rovers if Giggs got it right first time. Not saying it couldn't happen, but would hope the board wouldn't take such a gamble.
I guess it's easy to think 'I could do better than that' when your bosses are struggling...especially if you don't actually test yourself.
Then he should be willing to take the bloody interim position and show that! Not act like he has a divine right to the full time job despite proving nothing.
I don't like taking too much from that ''life of Ryan'' documentary, but Giggs found managing those four meaningless end of season games highly stressful. How the hell will his stress levels take a rebuilding job at what he regards as the biggest club in the world and most important part of his life being his first job in management?
I agree with you that he should leave United, manage a club in his own right and if he succeeds over a reasonable period of time he'd have a suitable body of work to be United's manager. I though, believe, and it's nothing more than a hunch that he's not particularly keen managing a club other than United. It feels like United or bust his career in management IMO.
I agree but it doesn't change my mind that there are good coaches working at lower levels who have come through the system. Its wrong to say that the coaching system is failing just because its not got British coaches at the high end of the game.
Rodgers was unlucky a bit. ok he's a clown personality but he almost won the league by playing expansive attacking football. When he lost Suarez and the club failed to adequately replace him he lost his nerve and tried to adapt a less attacking approach and paid the price. I still think that if he stuck to his beliefs and had a proper replacement he'd still be in a job and probably challenging top 4.