If Giggs is not the next manager, do you want him to stay?

[devilish]

It's a question I don't have an answer to. Every manager in Europe needs the same coaching qualifications though. It's called a UEFA Pro License for a reason.

http://www.thefa.com/my-football/fo...olunteering/get into coaching/coachingpathway

I found this link which I think can give us an idea of how things really work. The impression is that the FA takes care of most of the course and the UEFA has a small role in the matter. I also disagree strongly with this almost British mentality of hyping a local talent at quite a young age. (Young players and young coaches/managers). I've seen the other side of the coin in Italian football (players/coaches being bashed all the way despite proving themselves world class) and while I dont agree completely with the latter mentality I do believe it works better then hyping a person beyond any limit.

 

[itso 7]

What would he need to achieve to prove it though? Being a good manager at a club like Everton has already been shown to not be sufficient. Experience in the lower reaches isn't always going to be useful in judging if somebody can mix it at the highest level.

So we just give him the job with no indication whatsoever of his abilities because proving oneself is too difficult? Whose interests are you looking out for here? You lot act like it will be a great tragedy should Giggs never get to manage us and so the club should be taking unnecessary risks to ensure this happens whereas the truth is it's incumbent upon Giggs to prove himself suitable for us. We are one of the five biggest clubs in world football, in sport actually, and thus should be managed by a top five manager or preferably the best in the world - that's the standard and anything less is not only hypocritical but also grossly irresponsible.

 

[Adisa]

He is just going to be a noose around any manager's neck.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

It's a question I don't have an answer to. Every manager in Europe needs the same coaching qualifications though. It's called a UEFA Pro License for a reason.

I'd wager it's down to the youth set up at club level and how the games are organized. There needs to be real competition at that level to develop players, coaches and managers.

 

[roseguy64]

If they get the same exact education then how come Italy/Spain/Germany/France are producing decent managers and Britain isn't? We're not talking here about 1-2 years, we've talking here about 20 years if not more. SAF is probably the last world class manager Britain had produced

Because once they get the licence the systems in each country are different. It's related to culture. Everyone's taught the same material but when they go to clubs to implement it, there'll be variations due to well people being different.

 

[JPRouve]

Because once they get the licence the systems in each country are different. It's related to culture. Everyone's taught the same material but when they go to clubs to implement it, there'll be variations due to well people being different.

What you are saying is probably true but it also means that the way they teach is probably different.

 

[The red panther]

No don't want him to stay he should go and the club and him should both move on.

 

[Amir]

Looking at Guardiola you have to wonder how his career would have gone had he not been given Barcelona as his first big job (after Barca B of course) but was forced to go to Levante or something. If he tried to implement his football there, it might have been a disaster that killed off his career there and then.

Starting your managerial career at a top club with top class players (though United of 2016 is not Barcelona of 2008) gives you a far better chance so I can see why Giggs would be clinging on to it. But is it right for us? Well, certainly not when Mourinho is out there.

 

[Raoul]

I'd rather he fecked off somewhere he can manage and show what he's made of. If he's quality then I'm sure there will be a path back to OT in the future.

 

[Von Mistelroum]

If Giggs is the next manager, I don't want him to stay.

 

[JPRouve]

Looking at Guardiola you have to wonder how his career would have gone had he not been given Barcelona as his first big job (after Barca B of course) but was forced to go to Levante or something. If he tried to implement his football there, it might have been a disaster that killed off his career there and then.

Starting your managerial career at a top club with top class players (though United of 2016 is not Barcelona of 2008) gives you a far better chance so I can see why Giggs would be clinging on to it. But is it right for us? Well, certainly not when Mourinho is out there.

They "forced" Luis Enrique to go elsewhere and he still came back.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Giggs' position is a matter for Van Gaal or whoever is manager next season if Van Gaal gets the boot, not for a bunch of people acting like pre-menstrual schoolgirls.

We on the outside have absolutely no knowledge whatsoever of Giggs' abilities or what he brings to the position he holds, so screaming for his head with some paranoid rant about the Class of 92 is just downright embarrassing.

This hatred of Giggs really is getting out of hand. What next, a scaffold outside Old Trafford?

Really insightful stuff.

Without you, everyone was under the assumption that this was to be decided by a poll on the caf.

 

[acnumber9]

So we just give him the job with no indication whatsoever of his abilities because proving oneself is too difficult? Whose interests are you looking out for here? You lot act like it will be a great tragedy should Giggs never get to manage us and so the club should be taking unnecessary risks to ensure this happens whereas the truth is it's incumbent upon Giggs to prove himself suitable for us. We are one of the five biggest clubs in world football, in sport actually, and thus should be managed by a top five manager or preferably the best in the world - that's the standard and anything less is not only hypocritical but also grossly irresponsible.

Wind it in a little. All I'm asking is how he goes about proving. What does 'you lot' mean? I haven't said I want Giggs as manager. If I was responsible for picking I'd probably go with Mourinho. I don't agree with labelling something a disaster before it's happened though.

 

[acnumber9]

http://www.thefa.com/my-football/football-volunteers/coachingvolunteering/get into coaching/coachingpathway

I found this link which I think can give us an idea of how things really work. The impression is that the FA takes care of most of the course and the UEFA has a small role in the matter. I also disagree strongly with this almost British mentality of hyping a local talent at quite a young age. (Young players and young coaches/managers). I've seen the other side of the coin in Italian football (players/coaches being bashed all the way despite proving themselves world class) and while I dont agree completely with the latter mentality I do believe it works better then hyping a person beyond any limit.

The local football authorities will run it but it's all by the same curriculum so the requirements and what they are taught are the same. Why can't you just admit you don't know what you're talking about? I sometimes wonder why you support a British football club.

 

[.Rossi]

Nah, he needs to go and get experience at a lower level. That documentary, he was already talking about the pressures of managing at the club and it seemed to be getting to him at times and they were 4 pretty meaningless games so....

I hope he does go out and learns his trade and comes back here and is a success. For all I do say against him being our next manager and for seemingly pushing for the job, even though he's assistant to the current manager, it must be hard to leave something that has defined your life since you were a child

 

[Pyroblazer]

No. Mourinho should get his own staff in and Giggs should prove himself elsewhere as main manager. He is also responsible for our shitty situation, if he wants to be our manager in the future he need to show if he is good enough at another club first. With him here as assistant the idea that he will be the next in line will always be in everyone heads, so it's for the better if he leave with van Gaal.

 

[Amir]

They "forced" Luis Enrique to go elsewhere and he still came back.

Aye, but they've done that after trying to bring an outside man who didn't do well, so once again they went for a Barca man. I'm not sure Guardiula would have gotten that in other circumstances.

 

[devilish]

What would he need to achieve to prove it though? Being a good manager at a club like Everton has already been shown to not be sufficient. Experience in the lower reaches isn't always going to be useful in judging if somebody can mix it at the highest level.

The best piece of advice that anyone can give to Ryan Giggs at this point is to leave and forget about ever becaming a United manager. Its pointless for him to remain as an assistant manager because new managers would see him as a hindrance and a potential threat. Also he can't carry the responsibility of being a potential United manager on his back, not at this stage. He's a young manager who will need to make mistakes to learn the ropes and he cant constantly think that this or that mistake will ruin his chance of becoming the next SAF. That's not good for him. Also there's a chance that if he's good enough he might as well outgrow Manchester United. Simeone left football dreaming of returning at Inter as manager. It turned out that he had become a better manager than Inter can afford to sign. If Giggs is able to turn lets say Spurs into the new Athletico then why on earth would he want to return home?

Winning trophies would boost Giggs chances of returning however they are not strictly neccessary. Take Pocahontas as an example. He's a potential United target despite the fact that he has won nothing in his EPL career. What he really need to do is go to a club, overachieve expectations, move somewhere else and repeat the loop until either United notices him or else another big club does.

If I was Giggs I'd use senile's links to move to Holland. Its a place were they play the right type of football, its relatively easy to win trophies (Mclaren and Senile did that) and first and foremost its away from the British media as possible. Once he won 1-2 trophies and learnt the ropes he can move to a solid EPL club lets say like Southampton. If he does well there, then the next move to a bigger club (Spurs?) will be only a matter of time.

 

[JPRouve]

Aye, but they've done that after trying to bring an outside man who didn't do well, so once again they went for a Barca man. I'm not sure Guardiula would have gotten that in other circumstances.

No, he was supposed to come back in the future, they appointed someone else because they thought that he wasn't ready yet, you have to remember that Tito Vilanova died prematurely.

Edit: And Messi likes Tata Martino.

 

[devilish]

The local football authorities will run it but it's all by the same curriculum so the requirements and what they are taught are the same. Why can't you just admit you don't know what you're talking about? I sometimes wonder why you support a British football club.

That's not the impression that site gives.

Just because I support Manchester United that doesn't mean I should rate the FA and its way of doing things. If you know a bit about our club you'll know that Manchester United and the FA had clashed swords in numerous occasions. Sir Bobby even accused that the FA has innocent United blood on its hands

 

[Sky1981]

In every high profile job, the onus is for one to prove his credibility, not for the job to prove his lack of

 

[Kaos]

Going to be an unpopular opinion but feck it - I don't like Ryan Giggs. I started to dislike him after that whole Rhodri fiasco, and for right or wrong he's now become a symbol to me of our recent managerial failures. I'd feel very bitter if we missed out on Mourinho because we went with him. So I'd like him out as ungrateful as it sounds. And no I'm not forgetting his achievements as a player which I will forever be grateful for.

Having said that, if he impresses as a manager elsewhere, I wouldn't be opposed to having him back at OT in the future.

 

[Amir]

No, he was supposed to come back in the future, they appointed someone else because they thought that he wasn't ready yet, you have to remember that Tito Vilanova died prematurely.

Edit: And Messi likes Tata Martino.

But would any of that had happened if they sent Guardiola away to prove himself in 2008 rather than give him the job?

 

[wiz4231]

Even if Mourhino comes giggs will stay. That's because regardless of being named assistant he's here to learn the trade and take over eventually. Being the assistant makes feck all difference because we have enough coaches to cover the roles needed in a managerial stand point. If the team does shite its down to the manager not his pawns. Do you ever here a manager say I failed at this or that club because my assistant or coaches were shite. No didn't think so. The onus of failure lies with the manager.

 

[red_devil83]

I think he could stay but not involved in the first team in any way whatsoever. Then Mourinho (or whoever) can observe his work with the U21s or whichever age group he ends up with and decide for himself, based on actual evidence, not sentiment, whether he deserves a role with the 1st team.

 

[JPRouve]

But would any of that had happened if they sent Guardiola away to prove himself in 2008 rather than give him the job?

Are Giggs and Guardialo equals? Are Luis Enrique and Guardiola equals? Are Luis Enrique and Giggs equals? Are United and Barcelona equivalent?

 

[ZupZup]

They "forced" Luis Enrique to go elsewhere and he still came back.

That is true... but if Giggs took over at a team like Swansea and finished mid-table or similar... do you honestly think he'd be in with a shout of the United job based on that?

Enrique went to Roma and did quite poorly. He then quit and took a season out before taking over at Celta and having a fairly decent season in finishing mid-table - nothing too special. Following that he gets given the Barca job. If that happened at United, fans would be screaming that it's like Moyes all over again. What has he proven? What has he won?

 

[Massive Spanner]

The idea that Giggs doesn't want the interim role this season is hilarious. It might not be true, but if it is, then it's shambolic and beyond arrogant on his behalf. He's managed the club for 4 games (where he was a bit shit), has absolutely no other experience at managerial level, and yet would refuse a fecking interim role as if it's some insult to him? How dare we keep appointing the Great Giggsy on an interim level, the sheer disrespect to such a great servant, clearly he's paid his dues now with those four games and should just be given the manager's job on a six year contract, obviously. I mean, it's only what's fair really.

What a load of codswallop. I hope he fecks off if we appoint a new manager and proves his worth/failure somewhere else before we let him anywhere near the manager seat.

 

[JPRouve]

That is true... but if Giggs took over at a team like Swansea and finished mid-table or similar... do you honestly think he'd be in with a shout of the United job based on that?

Enrique went to Roma and did quite poorly. He then quit and took a season out before taking over at Celta and having a fairly decent season in finishing mid-table - nothing too special. Following that he gets given the Barca job. If that happened at United, fans would be screaming that it's like Moyes all over again. What has he proven? What has he won?

If he is wank, he is wank. If he is good or promising he will have a chance, unlike many other managers he will only need to match Pochettino's work at Southampton to be on top of the list.

 

[villain]

I get the impression that Ryan's only really interested in being a Manchester United manager, rather than a manager in general.

I agree.

 

[Jcrossley94]

There's a lot of discussion surrounding guardiola and the experience he had at barca b ... But not many people discussing the process and learning period he spent before he obtained the barca job... He went away and spent time learning and gaining as much knowledge as possible on the game. Obviously he knew ultimately he wanted to manage the Barcelona team; so essentially the only style he needed to know was the barca way (sound familiar?) but he recognised that to be the best coach possible, he needed to get the knowledge of other styles, other tactics so ultimately he was in the best position to make tactical decisions on and off the pitch. It was only until he's got that knowledge and the barca b job became available that he took.
Giggs could spend his time doing something similar if the right coaching job isn't available?

 

[SteveJ]

The idea that Giggs doesn't want the interim role this season is hilarious. It might not be true, but if it is, then it's shambolic and beyond arrogant on his behalf. He's managed the club for 4 games (where he was a bit shit), has absolutely no other experience at managerial level, and yet would refuse a fecking interim role as if it's some insult to him? How dare we keep appointing the Great Giggsy on an interim level, the sheer disrespect to such a great servant, clearly he's paid his dues now with those four games and should just be given the manager's job on a six year contract, obviously. I mean, it's only what's fair really.

What a load of codswallop. I hope he fecks off if we appoint a new manager and proves his worth/failure somewhere else before we let him anywhere near the manager seat.

I'm guessing that it's not so much arrogance as boredom and frustration. He's probably fed up of wasting months watching Moyes & LVG struggle while not being truly involved himself. If that is the case, then he might as well go to another club and take the central role, the impatient gonk.

 

[Amir]

Are Giggs and Guardialo equals? Are Luis Enrique and Guardiola equals? Are Luis Enrique and Giggs equals? Are United and Barcelona equivalent?

Not at all. This isn't a 'Barca did it with Pep so let's do with with Giggs' kind of conversation. I'm just talking hypothetically. Guardiula is a one off just like Fergie is, of course, but how would his career have looked like had he not started with the sort of team that allowed him to play his football successfully?

 

[Sky1981]

If he's not confident enough to showcase his talent as an interim manager with 15+ games left in the season... oh well... feck it

 

[DrunkenBeaver]

Giggs situation at OT became unattainable the day someone whispered in Giggs ears that he may one day inherit the job. We can't have someone in the coaching staff who see the manager's dismissal as his only chance of getting promoted. That will create mistrust and friction between the manager and Giggs

This is what I think too. There's also a chance his presence, at the behest of the board, would seek to undermine the authority of the management who wouldn't have direct authority to dismiss his assistant because said assistant would be part of some flawed board 'legacy' initiative.

 

[Honest John]

Giggs has been mentored by SAF since he was 14.
He is still mentored by him now and believes everything that the man says.
'SAF says I'm good for the job then I must be'.
But I do not detect very much self-belief coming from Giggsy.
The larger-than-life persona that you need to be a leader of the biggest club in the world is just is not there.
It wasn't there with Moyes either.
SAF knows in himself what is necessary to manage this club but he is total pants at spotting those qualities in others.
In some respects the billionaire method of choosing a manager is far more reliable.
No football experience necessary.
Just look at the records, choose the best available, pay him whatever it takes and give him shed loads to spend.
Very efficient.
LvG has been a disaster, but in some ways I can see the thought processes behind his appointment.
This wouldn't bother the billionaire. Chuck him out, get another one.

What is true though is that if we stand on traditions and make the mistake of thinking that SAF has created some sort of dynasty which can't tolerate mavericks, then it could be another 26 years before we win the title.

 

[Rednotdead]

Really insightful stuff.

Without you, everyone was under the assumption that this was to be decided by a poll on the caf.

Yes I know, sad isn't it?

 

[acnumber9]

That's not the impression that site gives.

Just because I support Manchester United that doesn't mean I should rate the FA and its way of doing things. If you know a bit about our club you'll know that Manchester United and the FA had clashed swords in numerous occasions. Sir Bobby even accused that the FA has innocent United blood on its hands

Then you might want to google what the UEFA Pro license is. You just seem to have something against British football people and the game here in general. I never mentioned the FA.

 

[acnumber9]

If he's not confident enough to showcase his talent as an interim manager with 15+ games left in the season... oh well... feck it

It's more likely a case of what has he got to gain if the decision on who the next manager is has already been made. Maybe he he's loyal to the manager. The analysis of Giggs and what he does or doesn't do based on nothing but tittle tattle is ridiculous.

 

[devilish]

Then you might want to google what the UEFA Pro license is. You just seem to have something against British football people and the game here in general. I never mentioned the FA.

I don't. I just judge the product and currently (I mean the past 20 years) the british school of coaching is not producing any decent managers. If you can proof me otherwise please do. The fa take care of such courses