If Pep leaves City without winning the CL, would he have been a success or failure?

[Crimson King]

I won't rate him until he breaks the Old Firm domination and wins a European trophy with Aberdeen!

 

[balaks]

A huge success obviously. Anybody trying to claim he has been a failure is having a laugh.

 

[JPRouve]

He is a success and it would say nothing particular about his legacy.

 

[Red the Bear]

Success, city did still manage to win the league before him(twice for that matter) but the dominant hold he's had on the league has been unparalleled(only Fergie managed this level of dominance) and just brilliant.

City have been made a dynasty and his influence will linger in the league for quite some time.

 

[Ayoba]

Agree with the general consensus on here, its a huge success. Just look at this trophy list: (from wiki)

2018 League Cup 2017–18 Premier League 2018 FA Community Shield 2019 League Cup 2018–19 Premier League 2019 FA Cup

2019 FA Community Shield 2020 League Cup 2021 League Cup 2020–21 Premier League 2021–22 Premier League

 

[Fortitude]

What was so given about it? They weren't dominant pre pep.

I don't think some of you guys realise the impact he's had on their standing in the game. Any kid who was introduced to football in the last 6 years knows Man City as a household name, who play by far the best and most entertaining football in the Premier League.

In terms of sports washing the Abu Dhabi project, he's been massively influential not in terms of their dominance but the way they play as well.

Pep. Same way he did die Bundesliga. Why would it be anything else?

I’m not re-writing history with the benefit of hindsight, I don’t think. His thread when he joined would outline expectations of - and upon - him when he came to the league, and I’m sure it would say more than being a force in domestic football.

 

[thekman]

Obviously an unbelievable success and an incredible manager but this notion that the CL is more about luck than the Premier League is pure fantasy. The most talented teams tend to win leagues but the CL tests both manager and players alike in terms of performing under pressure, adjusting and game management. In some of these instances, Pep has underachieved in Europe and lost to less talented teams. He and Ferguson would probably be me my go to win a league managers but in a CL tie I'm taking Clough or Ancelotti any day of the week.

 

[Born2Lose]

What Klopp has done at Liverpool to me is much more impressive. So I'd say partial success. He'll always have the cheque book manager tag until he does it at a club where he doesn't start with the fastest car in the race.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Obvious success. SAF was 3 minutes and one JT slip from never winning the CL.
There’s so much luck involved there (unless you are Real Madrid), Pep built a ridiculously dominant machine and won 4 PL titles in 6 seasons so far.
Sure there’s room for criticism on how he handled some of the CL matches including the final but a failure? come on now.

This doesn’t really work though because you can say Pep would have 0 CL’s if it weren’t for horrendous ref decisions. Managers have won what they’ve won.

 

[WeePat]

I'm pretty sure this thread was created when Pep left Bayern, asking the same question. My answer back then is the same as it is now, he was a success at Bayern and he's been a massive success at City. He might feel regret as not landing the CL but it's an extremely difficult thing to accomplish.

 

[simonhch]

An unequivocal success. May not have a CL to his name there but margins are fine in one off games. It’ll be a regret for him, but to view him as anything but a huge success is madness. Could do with some of his “failure” at United.

 

[FatTails]

He made every team in the premier league look like a bunch of amateurs and turned it into a Bundesliga, winning 4 of the last 5 (will easily become 5 out of the last 6 this season). For the so called hardest league in the world, he made it look piss easy.

So yes, a resounding success. Obviously European sides are a bit more difficult than the average PL team and there is more room for randomness in the CL. And it is specifically Europe, because he won a lot of cups in England (because he completely owned English teams).

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

I'm pretty sure this thread was created when Pep left Bayern, asking the same question. My answer back then is the same as it is now, he was a success at Bayern and he's been a massive success at City. He might feel regret as not landing the CL but it's an extremely difficult thing to accomplish.

Di Matteo did it with a shite Chelsea side.

 

[GhastlyHun]

Par for the course, basically.

 

[WeePat]

Di Matteo did it with a shite Chelsea side.

And he's been nowhere near even smelling the CL knockout stage ever again.

 

[thekman]

What Klopp has done at Liverpool to me is much more impressive. So I'd say partial success. He'll always have the cheque book manager tag until he does it at a club where he doesn't start with the fastest car in the race.

I agree on Klopp

Di Matteo did it with a shite Chelsea side.

True but Drogba was basically Benzema in that run. One of the clutchest seasons ever.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

He is a success and it would say nothing particular about his legacy.

The second part isn't true, especially considering he was an artisan of the downfall of his team several times.

 

[el3mel]

He has been a huge success. Any other opinion will come down as salty from what he achieved to be totally honest.

 

[SirAF]

Of course he would be a success. You can’t really budget on winning a cup tournament like the Champions League. Shit can happen: a bad ref, a bad night or a freakishly good night from your opponents.

 

[2 man midfield]

Huge success obviously. You can’t legislate for cup competitions imo. They’ve choked a couple of times in big games but in cup competitions you have other factors at play.

He’s had money to spend sure but so did all his predecessors. He totally changed how they play and raised the bar in the PL to the point that 97 points wasn’t enough to win the thing! If he leaves after this season as a champion he’ll have won 5 out of the last 6 leagues including 3 in a row. Hardly says failure to me.

 

[Rex Banner]

Success. He's won four titles and established them as the best team in the country. Not winning the Champions League would obviously be a huge disappointment for him and City but it's not enough to make his time there a failure. I doubt anyone would consider Mourinho's first spell with Chelsea a failure because he didn't win the CL.

If they're anything like Chelsea they'll end up fluking a CL a few years after he leaves.

 

[harms]

Enormous success with a footnote.

His City is the most dominant side in Premier League's history and it had to fight off Klopp's Liverpool (which proved itself to be a genuinely great side not only in PL but also in Europe) for the title. And while City was arguably the best-placed team for such domination they hadn't won the league for 2 seasons when he came in, scraping the CL qualification on goal difference.

 

[WeePat]

Success. He's won four titles and established them as the best team in the country. Not winning the Champions League would obviously be a huge disappointment for him and City but it's not enough to make his time there a failure. I doubt anyone would consider Mourinho's first spell with Chelsea a failure because he didn't win the CL.

If they're anything like Chelsea they'll end up fluking a CL a few years after he leaves.

They're a better run club than we ever were. I don't think they'll allow the club to fluctuate between poor and great the way Chelsea have been in the last 10 years. City will hire the right successor and still be up there as one of the top teams in Europe.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

He's the second best manager in the history of the league.

 

[Rex Banner]

Di Matteo did it with a shite Chelsea side.

Surely that just shows its possible to fluke a Champions League? There's no way Di Matteo could have won the PL

 

[Theonas]

This is really embarrassing. It reminds me of the past when we will see Liverpool and other rivals fans speculating if we are really successful and if Sir Alex is really all that because of X, Y and Z. The man dominated the league in every way possible setting new records left and right after he has been personally, more than anyone else, doubted. All the talk has been about how he can never implement his brand of football in the PL, only for him, to not only implement it, but utterly dominate in every area imaginable. He redefined a lot of expectations and challenged how a team can play in England. He could have won half the trophies he did and still would be considered a success. Did he have help that others didn't, of course! But the same can be said of many. Our growth coincided with the Sky money and Mourinho and Abramovic's deep pockets. There is no big success story on the scale of dominating a top league that is completely the work of one individual. They all need help but they still have to produce and that is beyond most.

 

[r1z3mu]

Pep is huge success and doesn't matter if he wins anything else or not.

 

[Rex Banner]

They're a better run club than we ever were. I don't think they'll allow the club to fluctuate between poor and great the way Chelsea have been in the last 10 years. City will hire the right successor and still be up there as one of the top teams in Europe.

I'm still hopeful they balls it up somehow!

 

[Popovic]

Funny question. His team is arguably the best PL side of all time. They could potentially go 5/6 this year after hitting 90+ points for multiple years. To say Pep hasn't been a success is mind boggling.

 

[Random Task]

Winning four league titles in 6 years amounts to a highly successful reign from any perspective, with or without a CL trophy.

It's impossible to suggest otherwise, as much as we'd like to.

 

[JPRouve]

The second part isn't true, especially considering he was an artisan of the downfall of his team several times.

Why would the second part not be true? Currently I don't consider him as a great cup manager and I didn't when he left Bayern, so if he left City tomorrow his legacy would be the same.

 

[Greyfog]

I think in some years City were tipped to be the favourite for the CL it was actually down to having Pep as manager and not necessarily the overall quality of the team compared to other big teams. Which was strange given how long ago he won it.
He has been a massive success for City but yea no CL is really poor especially with how they were knocked out in some of the games.

 

[SilentWitness]

Success. Any other answer is wrong.

 

[TheLord]

He will be regarded as one of the finest managers in the Premier League, never mind his accomplishments in Germany, and particularly in Spain.

 

[Dumbstar]

For the massive amount of money he (and the club before he arrived to set up the players like Fernandinho, Aguero, etc) has spent he is still a huge domestic success because winning 4 out of 6 leagues is legendary whichever way you look at it.

For the massive amount of money he (and the club before he arrived to set up the players like Fernandinho, Aguero, etc) has spent he is a huge failure in the CL considering his reputation and the fact he's been favourite to win it for nearly 6 seasons.

Conclusion, he's a success.

 

[sullydnl]

It would be a bizarre distortion of reality to suggest a manager who (so far) has won four league titles in six seasons is anything other than an unequivocal success.

 

[Mike Smalling]

The Champions League isn't the be all end all. He has absolutely dominated the league, and twice won it over a very impressive Liverpool side that got 90+ points. Of course, he has been a success.

 

[SilentWitness]

I wouldn’t even say he’s been a failure in the CL, it’s incredibly hard to win and they have absolutely no history in the tournament. Clubs like Liverpool, Madrid etc. have an immense history and it definitely helps to have that history behind you when you get to the semi-finals and finals of the CL. He’s managed to get them into the deep end of it and they’ll be more accustomed to it and feel less pressure in future beyond him at that deep end because of the work he’s put in with the club and team.

 

[Theonas]

I'm still hopeful they balls it up somehow!

It will come when Pep leaves. I'd be shocked if they can replace him immediately and with the competition in the league, there will be no room to win it at a lower level than Pep established and there is no way anyone will match Pep's performances domestically.

 

[Traub]

Pep going to City and spending so much time there (I think it's more than his time at Barca now) has legitimised the project more than a once-off champions league would've done. Pep has ensured the sports washing is complete, so the owners will definitely see his time as a success.