If Pep leaves City without winning the CL, would he have been a success or failure?

[AmanNits04]

Sooner he fecks off to a national job the better

Exactly, how has he stayed this long at city, I still don't get it.

 

[kthanksbye]

As prestigious as it might be, the CL is still a KO competition and is not necessarily won by the best team in Europe. City have been dominating the PL and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. The style of football, the goal scoring, possession, chances, Pep doesn't have anything to prove anymore.
Winning the CL is only a matter of when instead of if, and even without a CL, he's been an absolute success at City.

 

[spiriticon]

Exactly, how has he stayed this long at city, I still don't get it.

The emergence of Liverpool around 2019 probably gave him new motivation.

But he looks to have seen them off now, the challenge is complete.

 

[Zen86]

Exactly, how has he stayed this long at city, I still don't get it.

I can think of millions of reasons

 

[mshnsh]

Seriously? Messi went up levels when Guardiola in terms of productivity and redefined him into The False 9. It was a revolution and made Messi the focal point of the team and his output went up massively as a result. Most managers would of left Messi on the wing or maybe played him as a CAM. Except most would persist with having Ronaldinho and Deco as the focal points of the team and neglected Messi and Xavi. Guardiola deserves full credit for the role he played in the evolution of both Messi and Xavi. Because he also redifined Xavi's role in the team to develop him into the midfield meastro and assist machine

Also to say Pep's Barce were all about Messi is untrue. He was their best player but their masterly dominance of possession was at least equally part of their dominance.

Messi was just as good in 2006 to 2008 before Guardiola became manager. The reason his output went up was lack of injuries and improvement in the form of others around him. In addition, later on, Pep played him as a false 9 (around 2010/11) If you actually watched Messi before Guardiola when he was fully fit you'd understand what I'm saying.

 

[lefty_jakobz]

I can think of millions of reasons

Probably owns half of Abu Dhabi by now.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Exactly, how has he stayed this long at city, I still don't get it.

Because he's probably been paid a lot more money than has been declared most likely.

 

[FrankFoot]

I think you're massively overrating the CL over the league. The Chelsea and Liverpool (05) sides who won the CL were nowhere near the PL title, yet they could win the CL. The PL is harder than the CL. In truth Real fluked it last season and Chelsea fluked it 2 seasons ago. Flukes happen in cups but don't happen in leagues. If the CL is an actual league City win it 5 years on the trott

I think you are overrating PL way too much.

Real and Bayern are the biggest teams in the CL for a reason, they know how to play the toughest competition in the planet.
Even City players and Guardiola know that facing Real,Bayern,Barcelona,Juventus,PSG,etc in the CL are the most difficult games of the season, not average teams like Brighton, Southampton,Everton, etc which represent the quality of 95% of PL teams.

Have a look at Kevin De Bruyne disappearing in big CL games when things go wrong for City, i don't think it's a coincidence at all, as soon as something doesn't go in City's way many of their players make unusual mistakes and shit the bed.
You can't tell me "PL is way harder", when you have City players shitting the bed and ghosting in big CL games as soon as things go wrong.
Watching De Bruyne missing passes from 2 meters in the CL final against Chelsea was kinda amusing, pretty sure he would never miss those passes if that was a PL game at Etihad or Standford Bridge.


No disrespect, but i think your view on the CL is biased cause you support Arsenal, and they never won it, not even at their very prime, and iirc they even lost a UEFA cup final to Galatasaray in 2000.

I do believe that there is some luck involved in cup competitions, but i don't believe PL is way harder just because Liverpool won it in 2005 while not challenging for the league.

 

[Norman Brownbutter]

As prestigious as it might be, the CL is still a KO competition and is not necessarily won by the best team in Europe. City have been dominating the PL and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. The style of football, the goal scoring, possession, chances, Pep doesn't have anything to prove anymore.
Winning the CL is only a matter of when instead of if, and even without a CL, he's been an absolute success at City.

But City were winning what they are now before he came. Hes supposed to be an upgrade. But so far, hes only continued what they were achieving anyway. Relatively speaking, thats failure.

 

[ExecutionerWasp001]

I'm not trying to negate it, I'm respecting SAF as he's the only man to have managed a CL + PL double, but he only did that twice in 23 years. That shows how incredibly difficult it is to do.

You can't just say if SAF had money he would have won loads more CLs, it doesn't work like that.

If it is so easy to do a CL + PL double, why didn't Chelsea ever manage it? Liverpool of the past few seasons?

SAF only did the CL/PL double twice as the competition in Europe was much stronger during the time he was managing. He was also hamstrung by the Glazers debt for the last 7 years of his reign. SAF would be making hay in Europe right now if he was a bit younger & had £1 Billion to spend. The standard of the competition at the moment is garbage. The Italian clubs are finished. Barcelona couldn't even make the final of the Europa League. Madrid are an ageing team who were incredibly lucky last year. Arsenal have been in the wilderness for years & Utd are joining them.

Chelsea had the same problem as Utd. There best period under Mourinho was against stronger European Clubs in the CL. Liverpool haven't done it during their recent golden period as they don't spend enough.

 

[SilentWitness]

SAF only did the CL/PL double twice as the competition in Europe was much stronger during the time he was managing. He was also hamstrung by the Glazers debt for the last 7 years of his reign. SAF would be making hay in Europe right now if he was a bit younger & had £1 Billion to spend. The standard of the competition at the moment is garbage. The Italian clubs are finished. Barcelona couldn't even make the final of the Europa League. Madrid are an ageing team who were incredibly lucky last year. Arsenal have been in the wilderness for years & Utd are joining them.

Chelsea had the same problem as Utd. There best period under Mourinho was against stronger European Clubs in the CL. Liverpool haven't done it during their recent golden period as they don't spend enough.

Just feels like to me every club is afforded an excuse but City + Pep. If it was so easy to win a league and CL double it wouldn't have only happened twice in PL history. Even Madrid in their 5 time wins recently have only done it twice during that period.

 

[ExecutionerWasp001]

Just feels like to me every club is afforded an excuse but City + Pep. If it was so easy to win a league and CL double it wouldn't have only happened twice in PL history. Even Madrid in their 5 time wins recently have only done it twice during that period.

I don't know where this PL/CL double comes into it. The title of the thread is has Pep been a success at City if he fails to win the CL. He has already won 4 titles, likely 5 at the end of the season. The league doesn't really matter anymore. He will obviously want to win it but if he had to choose he'd definately want the CL more.

A more apt title would be has Pep achieved the clubs objective if he fails to win the CL. The answer then would be no. The club has gone to great expense to replicate the Barcelona model & was built for his arrival from the bottom up. This money isn't being spent to just continually walk the PL. City fans & executives come out every season saying that the league is their bread & butter but that's only because they haven't won the CL. If they don't care about winning it why threaten to bankrupt UEFA if they were banned from taking part. It's not as if the money matters to them as it's peanuts compared to what Abu Dhabi have at their disposal.

 

[ilrm]

In truth Real fluked it last season

Why do people keep saying this as if its the truth or even a valid opinion? You can't fluke 7 knockout games against 4 favorites to the title.
Madrid played hard right up to the whistle while other teams lost concentration. Was there any wild outlandish goal or refree-ing decisions (like Barca-Chelsea) that went our way? How did we fluke the final against Pool? Pool hit the post once but Pool were also very lucky that Madrid's first goal was chalked off.

 

[Fortitude]

Just feels like to me every club is afforded an excuse but City + Pep. If it was so easy to win a league and CL double it wouldn't have only happened twice in PL history. Even Madrid in their 5 time wins recently have only done it twice during that period.

Every club sans PSG is afforded the excuse of being normal clubs with the aforementioned budgets, restrictions and squad management to contend with. Some of these normal clubs have stupendous players but they cannot conduct themselves in the way Pep gets to. Extraordinary conditions come with extraordinary scrutiny and consideration of what is determined to be success, and surely you see that? As I said previously, PSG are rinsed and mocked for every failure in Europe for the simple fact that they have the most esteemed, costly strike force on earth. They are never spared the ‘treatment’ and they aren’t even as stacked as City are.

Pep is considered the best manager on earth by many and yet this blind spot he is blessed with when it comes to his routine failures to actually see off clubs of standing vying for the only trophy they are all in contention for is supposed to be overlooked in favour of him running roughshod over the league because he has by far the best squad, resources and lack of restrictions by a chasm. You can’t take one without the other being diminished - if you’re so impressive in the league, why aren’t you in the running with RM in the CL? What possible reason or excuse is there supposed to be for that? You’re either <insert plaudits here> or you’re not. There’s no caveat, no nuance - it’s very binary.

With regard to the PL + CL question you asked: I don’t know what relevance it is supposed to have, and I think where we veer wildly in consideration of City and Pep is that you believe they should be framed alongside normal clubs and managers who had far more obstacles in their way than a manufactured, cheating behemoth does. Cheating because that squad cannot be assembled and maintained in any other way than with blind payments and underhanded conduct left, right and centre; they have everything in place via artificial means that remove them from the constructs you want to associate them with. I think what I post here may be seen as sour grapes when the reality is: you give any club such resources and there is zero excuse not to win the league; any time they don’, questions should be asked - how much more of an advantage do you need, really? The CL, however, is a different kettle of fish - the barometer for every single club in Europe with aspirations of winning it - the ‘but it’s a club competition and anything can happen’, or ‘but team X, Y or Z have won it therefore it is a redundancy,’ holds no water as they are the anomalies dotted around the giants of club football who are ever present at the top-end of the competition.

 

[SilentWitness]

I don't know where this PL/CL double comes into it. The title of the thread is has Pep been a success at City if he fails to win the CL. He has already won 4 titles, likely 5 at the end of the season. The league doesn't really matter anymore. He will obviously want to win it but if he had to choose he'd definately want the CL more.

A more apt title would be has Pep achieved the clubs objective if he fails to win the CL. The answer then would be no. The club has gone to great expense to replicate the Barcelona model & was built for his arrival from the bottom up. This money isn't being spent to just continually walk the PL. City fans & executives come out every season saying that the league is their bread & butter but that's only because they haven't won the CL. If they don't care about winning it why threaten to bankrupt UEFA if they were banned from taking part. It's not as if the money matters to them as it's peanuts compared to what Abu Dhabi have at their disposal.

It matters because he’s competing and winning the title more often than not and teams that win the league more often than not don’t win the CL, which means that doing a double is incredibly difficult to do. If it’s very difficult to do then it’s extremely harsh to suggest someone is a failure for not winning the CL when they’re winning the PL each year and not just winning, but obliterating it.

 

[FrankFoot]

Every club sans PSG is afforded the excuse of being normal clubs with the aforementioned budgets, restrictions and squad management to contend with. Some of these normal clubs have stupendous players but they cannot conduct themselves in the way Pep gets to. Extraordinary conditions come with extraordinary scrutiny and consideration of what is determined to be success, and surely you see that? As I said previously, PSG are rinsed and mocked for every failure in Europe for the simple fact that they have the most esteemed, costly strike force on earth. They are never spared the ‘treatment’ and they aren’t even as stacked as City are.

Pep is considered the best manager on earth by many and yet this blind spot he is blessed with when it comes to his routine failures to actually see off clubs of standing vying for the only trophy they are all in contention for is supposed to be overlooked in favour of him running roughshod over the league because he has by far the best squad, resources and lack of restrictions by a chasm. You can’t take one without the other being diminished - if you’re so impressive in the league, why aren’t you in the running with RM in the CL? What possible reason or excuse is there supposed to be for that? You’re either <insert plaudits here> or you’re not. There’s no caveat, no nuance - it’s very binary.

With regard to the PL + CL question you asked: I don’t know what relevance it is supposed to have, and I think where we veer wildly in consideration of City and Pep is that you believe they should be framed alongside normal clubs and managers who had far more obstacles in their way than a manufactured, cheating behemoth does. Cheating because that squad cannot be assembled and maintained in any other way than with blind payments and underhanded conduct left, right and centre; they have everything in place via artificial means that remove them from the constructs you want to associate them with. I think what I post here may be seen as sour grapes when the reality is: you give any club such resources and there is zero excuse not to win the league; any time they don’, questions should be asked - how much more of an advantage do you need, really? The CL, however, is a different kettle of fish - the barometer for every single club in Europe with aspirations of winning it - the ‘but it’s a club competition and anything can happen’, or ‘but team X, Y or Z have won it therefore it is a redundancy,’ holds no water as they are the anomalies dotted around the giants of club football who are ever present at the top-end of the competition.

A CL knockout will always be more difficult than league games, the "no mistakes allowed" makes it more difficult.

City isn't used to adversity in Premier League cause they have better players than 98% of english teams, and they know it.

Look at De Bruyne in big CL games, guy goes missing as soon as things don't go in City's favor, he got used to dominate games and almost never face adversity in PL games.

It was kinda amusing to see KDB missing close passes against Chelsea in the UCL final, pretty sure he wouldn't miss those passes if the game was in Etihad or Stanford Bridge for Premier League.

 

[ExecutionerWasp001]

It matters because he’s competing and winning the title more often than not and teams that win the league more often than not don’t win the CL, which means that doing a double is incredibly difficult to do. If it’s very difficult to do then it’s extremely harsh to suggest someone is a failure for not winning the CL when they’re winning the PL each year and not just winning, but obliterating it.

He's obliterating the league due to the club being state funded. It's exactly the same as PSG. Bayern & Juventus have also won multiple titles on the spin although not state owned. At the end of the day when teams have resources that dwarf their competitors the league becomes a procession.

PSG managers are not congratulated on winning the league they are riduculed for failing to win the CL. I don't see why it should be any different for Pep.

As the league becomes a procession the CL becomes the most wanted. The league is merely a fallback trophy. This is especially true in the case of City & PSG as they are sportwashing projects rather than spoting entities.

 

[Stocar]

Premier League is by far the toughest competition to win these days. United and Chelsea spend similar as City, Liverpool also in recent years. Cup competitions are random by default. Won by having a top squad and momentum on your side, with coaching and consistency having far less importance. Play them again and many times you would get different winners, even different finalists. Italy gets crowned champions of Europe, then fail to qualify for World Cup. Teams that underachieve in their league, but manage to scramble their way to the final. It happens all the time. No such thing in the league, especially a tough one like EPL. Every title is earned with quality and consistency. This used to be a common wisdom in club football. Anyway, it is only a matter of time when teams like City or PSG get a good run and start winning in Europe, like Chelsea did. And playing best football is not a prerequisite. Just have to be there in the mix and wait for their moment. That's all there is to it.

 

[SilentWitness]

He's obliterating the league due to the club being state funded. It's exactly the same as PSG. Bayern & Juventus have also won multiple titles on the spin although not state owned. At the end of the day when teams have resources that dwarf their competitors the league becomes a procession.

PSG managers are not congratulated on winning the league they are riduculed for failing to win the CL. I don't see why it should be any different for Pep.

As the league becomes a procession the CL becomes the most wanted. The league is merely a fallback trophy. This is especially true in the case of City & PSG as they are sportwashing projects rather than spoting entities.

No french team has won a European competition in the time that PSG have had their riches. England has had 3 EL winners and 3 CL winners in the time that City has had money. None of these English teams however have won the league in the same year as winning a European comp. The PL is a different beast compared to Ligue 1.

It is quite clearly very difficult for PL teams to compete at the highest level and win the PL and achieve the CL in the same season. ,.

 

[FrankFoot]

Premier League is by far the toughest competition to win these days. United and Chelsea spend similar as City, Liverpool also in recent years. Cup competitions are random by default. Won by having a top squad and momentum on your side, with coaching and consistency having far less importance. Play them again and many times you would get different winners, even different finalists. Italy gets crowned champions of Europe, then fail to qualify for World Cup. Teams that underachieve in their league, but manage to scramble their way to the final. It happens all the time. No such thing in the league, especially a tough one like EPL. Every title is earned with quality and consistency. This used to be a common wisdom in club football. Anyway, it is only a matter of time when teams like City or PSG get a good run and start winning in Europe, like Chelsea did. And playing best football is not a prerequisite. Just have to be there in the mix and wait for their moment. That's all there is to it.

City isn't winning anything with KDB ghosting in big CL games, you can be sure about that.

Dude goes missing whenever things goes wrong for City, he isn't used to face adversity in the league cause City is always facing teams with less quality in the PL.

League is about consistency and depth, City has both (after Pep spent 1 billion euros from Abu Dhabi).

CL is about quality, momentum, and mentality, which is why KDB missed close passes against Chelsea in the UCL final, had the game been on Etihad or Stanford Bridge for Premier League, he magically would have had a better game, you can bet on that.

Don't understimate the difficulty of UCL just because a couple of teams won it, while not being favorites.

 

[croadyman]

A stacked squad and a competent manager will always have you in contention for the league.

When you can swap like for like and barely notice, there is no surprise in absurd point totals and squads that are full of energy during the traditionally draining periods of a season where others fall by the wayside.

In context, a ridiculous points total is expected from a stacked squad; it is an incredible achievement from a normal one.

Like or loathe it, it's Klopp who was overachieving in the league to make it competitive. In relative terms, he was extracting greater numbers from a vastly inferior squad to what Guardiola works with.

Resources are a massive component in winning these tilted leagues now.

Yeah be nice if the media acknowledged how beneficial having a ridiculously stacked squad is during the busy xmas/new year period rather than just wax lyrical over City

 

[croadyman]

Because he's probably been paid a lot more money than has been declared most likely.

Yeah they are dodgiest club in league for finances

 

[Suedesi]

Nothing Pep achieves at City matters, it's not a football club it's a sportswashing PR vehicle. feck them and Pep

 

[croadyman]

Nothing Pep achieves at City matters, it's not a football club it's a sportswashing PR vehicle. feck them and Pep

Absolutely bang on, think it's telling the little pocket of City fans on here are keeping very quiet

 

[RedRonaldo]

Look we’ve spent about similar amount of money as Pep at City. If Pep won same amount of trophies for us during all these time he had with City, would any of you consider him a failure here?

 

[berbatrick]

But City were winning what they are now before he came. Hes supposed to be an upgrade. But so far, hes only continued what they were achieving anyway. Relatively speaking, thats failure.

After the takeover, they won the league twice in 6 seasons. Two in 5 if you are generous and consider their "serious" team being formed in summer 2010 with the arrival of Yaya and Silva.

Since his arrival, they've won the league 4 times in 6 seasons. 4 in 5 if you are generous and consider that it took him a year to implement everything.

What a failure!

 

[kthanksbye]

But City were winning what they are now before he came. Hes supposed to be an upgrade. But so far, hes only continued what they were achieving anyway. Relatively speaking, thats failure.

City were winning the league occasionally, since Pep has joined, they've been favourites to win the league almost every season. That's improvement. They've broken the points record.
Also, CL cannot be the difference between success and failure. Even without the CL with City, Pep is easily one of the best managers of his generation and this City team is one of the best English teams.
Like I said, it's a KO competition after all, it requires a bit of luck here and there, the consistency his team shows in the league is enough to conclude that he's been a success there.
Obviously there's a lot more to it that that given how City's finances are setup, but that's not up to Pep, he has the resources available to him and he's making the most of it.

 

[footballistic orgasm]

It takes serious mental gymnastics to consider it a failure, and it's very funny to see some here do those mental gymnastics.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

He's just won 4 of he last 5 Premier Leagues and will probably have won 5 of 6 with 3 consecutive and another back-to-back by the time this season concludes in May.
He set the points record with the only 100 points season in Premier League history, and another 98 point season. His teams have broken the wins record, points record, goals record, goals difference record.
If we leave the first season aside when he was implementing his way of playing, his side average 91.25 points a game in the league.

As others have pointed out, it's fun watching the mental gymnastics by people intransigently harping on about this isn't impressive.

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

Success of failure, he's still a twat, and at the end of the day he'll have wasted 6 (or more) years at a club nobody gives a shit about.

 

[Fortitude]

He's just won 4 of he last 5 Premier Leagues and will probably have won 5 of 6 with 3 consecutive and another back-to-back by the time this season concludes in May.
He set the points record with the only 100 points season in Premier League history, and another 98 point season. His teams have broken the wins record, points record, goals record, goals difference record.
If we leave the first season aside when he was implementing his way of playing, his side average 91.25 points a game in the league.

As others have pointed out, it's fun watching the mental gymnastics by people intransigently harping on about this isn't impressive.

Or, the flipside of that coin would be the mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonance it takes to divorce Godking best manager in the world tapdancing across a league there is no excuse or obstacle not to win, as all other giants do in their respective leagues, from the Pep who constantly comes up short when faced with obstacles in the premier club competition where rivals who are considered the best in the world somehow manage to prove it time and time again.

There are more mental gymnastics in place to create that disconnect than the common sense of the best squad, by far, will have all the tools at their disposal to utterly dominate a league competition in which attrition is king.

 

[Marwood]

After the takeover, they won the league twice in 6 seasons. Two in 5 if you are generous and consider their "serious" team being formed in summer 2010 with the arrival of Yaya and Silva.

Since his arrival, they've won the league 4 times in 6 seasons. 4 in 5 if you are generous and consider that it took him a year to implement everything.

What a failure!

But they were always going to get better and better the longer the project ran for, no matter who was in charge. The money would make certain of that.

Unless they somehow became as incompetent as us.

Those waiting for Pep to leave so we can catch City are indulging in wishful thinking. City will get another good manager and will continue to outspend everyone. They'll carry on winning unless another club can put together a brilliant team.

 

[Manchester Dan]

We are probably the best team in the world at the minute, and our trophy cabinet reflects that, so for me that’s a success. If you want to put so much weight into the CL then do you really believe Zidane is better than Pep?

 

[berbatrick]

But they were always going to get better and better the longer the project ran for.

No? There's no reason that should be the case, and their trajectory under previous managers was that of a "normal" big club. There was no improving trend at all in terms of league position - 4-1-2-1-2-4. Two title wins, followed by bad title defenses, almost slipping out of the top 4...
In terms of points, 71-89-78-86-79-66. A lot of ups and downs, with 2 faltering seasons before Pep joined. Never crossed 90 points.

Since then it's been 3-1-1-2-1-1. They improved after the first season, and have had one blip since then. Apart from that it's footballing terminator. They've made the EPL into the Bundesliga or Ligue 1, or Serie A of the 2010s when Juve was insane.
In points, it's 78-100-98-81-86-93. Points and GD record and they've crossed 90 thrice - more than any other PL team ever, and they'll probably clear it again this season.

I genuinely don't know how people can argue that Pep hasn't drastically improved them. He's taken them from one of the contenders to overwhelming favourites.

 

[stefan92]

We are probably the best team in the world at the minute, and our trophy cabinet reflects that, so for me that’s a success. If you want to put so much weight into the CL then do you really believe Zidane is better than Pep?

I believe that Zidane is better at pragmatically leading a team through a string of tough games. In every other regard I think Pep is better, but that is the most important quality to win the CL.

 

[Marwood]

No? There's no reason that should be the case, and their trajectory under previous managers was that of a "normal" big club. There was no improving trend at all in terms of league position - 4-1-2-1-2-4. Two title wins, followed by bad title defenses, almost slipping out of the top 4...
In terms of points, 71-89-78-86-79-66. A lot of ups and downs, with 2 faltering seasons before Pep joined. Never crossed 90 points.

Since then it's been 3-1-1-2-1-1. They improved after the first season, and have had one blip since then. Apart from that it's footballing terminator. They've made the EPL into the Bundesliga or Ligue 1, or Serie A of the 2010s when Juve was insane.
In points, it's 78-100-98-81-86-93. Points and GD record and they've crossed 90 thrice - more than any other PL team ever, and they'll probably clear it again this season.

I genuinely don't know how people can argue that Pep hasn't drastically improved them. He's taken them from one of the contenders to overwhelming favourites.

Because they were always going to keep pouring money into the team. The longer that goes on for the more established the club becomes, the better the team, able to attract better players etc etc.

Unless there's some bad mismanagement they were always going to become different to the usual big club because they aren't the usual big club.

Klopp has done some incredible stuff to be pretty much as good as them over the last few years but the gap in money spent is now starting to tell. As it always would.

 

[Stocar]

City isn't winning anything with KDB ghosting in big CL games, you can be sure about that.

Dude goes missing whenever things goes wrong for City, he isn't used to face adversity in the league cause City is always facing teams with less quality in the PL.

League is about consistency and depth, City has both (after Pep spent 1 billion euros from Abu Dhabi).

CL is about quality, momentum, and mentality, which is why KDB missed close passes against Chelsea in the UCL final, had the game been on Etihad or Stanford Bridge for Premier League, he magically would have had a better game, you can bet on that.

Don't understimate the difficulty of UCL just because a couple of teams won it, while not being favorites.

The goalposts shifting and mental gymnastics are incredible. That same player has decided many big games with incredible pieces of skill, goals and assists. But yeah, I guess we must conclude he simply isn't up to the task on the biggest stage. Becuase scoring or assisting in a cup final is a true measure of greatness. Real in-depth football knowledge.

 

[Jim Beam]

He is pissing left, right and centre on the toughest league in the world. Considering high pressure environment in which he constantly operates (a bit more pressure than at Stoke that is) it is miracle that the fecker doesn't slow down, but even evolves as the time goes on.

Also, I saw a kid with Man City shirt on derby day in my town. Almost crashed with the car looking at him. I fully blame Pep for this paranormal experience.

 

[Stocar]

I believe that Zidane is better at pragmatically leading a team through a string of tough games. In every other regard I think Pep is better, but that is the most important quality to win the CL.

Some of the best coaches have the flaw that they want to control the game all the time and predict everything. When two elite teams clash, plans often go out of the window. Then it is smarter to trust the players to figure things out for themselves. At the end of the day, player quality is the most important factor in football. That's why improvisation and simple reactive football probably work best in big knockout games. This sometimes gets confused for tactical mastery, which it isn't. It's just common sense.

 

[Scaring Europe to Death]

Because they were always going to keep pouring money into the team. The longer that goes on for the more established the club becomes, the better the team, able to attract better players etc etc.

Unless there's some bad mismanagement they were always going to become different to the usual big club because they aren't the usual big club.

Klopp has done some incredible stuff to be pretty much as good as them over the last few years but the gap in money spent is now starting to tell. As it always would.

Your posts would have made more sense in 2017-18, but not now, as City aren't outspending anyone. Try calculating the funds received from outgoing youth players (something United used to be very good at) such as Lavia and Bazuna, or even the profit made on Zinchenko.

Akanji was a defensive liability at Dortmund, and that's why he didn't cost much. Same with Gomes at Anderlecht after failing to make in impact elsewhere.
Somewhere along the line you have to hold your hand up and admit that it also comes down to excellent coaching, and that City might just have somebody half decent in charge.