If Pep took over us instead of City would we have won the PL ?

[Inigo Montoya]

Our unbalanced and fecked up squad is because we hire the wrong manager. If we hire klopp half of the mess wont be there in the first place.

So if he managed us he'll fare better than anyone else. Simply because he's the best there is at the moment.

There's no shame in admitting that.

He turned us down mate. Stop sucking him off

 

[Jonno]

He's proving he's the best in world football.

We'd have won just as many as he has at City, and he'd be far more appreciated than he is at the Etihad. Imagine him bringing title 21, 22 one to OT and walking off each week past the Stratford End. He'd be idolised.

Such a shame.

 

[Jonno]

Our unbalanced and fecked up squad is because we hire the wrong manager. If we hire klopp half of the mess wont be there in the first place.

So if he managed us he'll fare better than anyone else. Simply because he's the best there is at the moment.

There's no shame in admitting that.

We'd had had 3 years of running ourselves into the ground and overachieving and then capitulating being laughed at in 6th place.

 

[Sky1981]

He turned us down mate. Stop sucking him off

I'm not.

I just dont resort to some strange notion that he wont work with us.

It's like liverpool saying saf cant win anywhere else

 

[justsomebloke]

Our unbalanced and fecked up squad is because we hire the wrong manager. If we hire klopp half of the mess wont be there in the first place.

So if he managed us he'll fare better than anyone else. Simply because he's the best there is at the moment.

There's no shame in admitting that.

All of which proceeds from the faulty premiss of "Our unbalanced and fecked up squad is because we hire the wrong manager", which in my opinion is codswallop, and also has zero to do with the issue of how Pep Guardiola would have fared as United manager. No wonder you're not making meaningful replies. If that's what you actually want to argue, there are lots of other threads for that.

 

[Sky1981]

All of which proceeds from the faulty premiss of "Our unbalanced and fecked up squad is because we hire the wrong manager", which in my opinion is codswallop, and also has zero to do with the issue of how Pep Guardiola would have fared as United manager. No wonder you're not making meaningful replies. If that's what you actually want to argue, there are lots of other threads for that.

I dont know what you're talking about honestly. So best we stop here.

 

[simplyared]

Yes!

 

[roonster09]

But winning the league without KDB proves my point. He doesnt just need top players in the 11 but top players behind those as well.
Im not denying we spend money but not to the levels Pep needs at City and we needed a lot more work done on our squad than they did.
If Pep could lessen his spend and achieve the same results with lesser players then he wouldnt be spending what he has at City.
United was a challenge when he had that choice but he went to the side with one of the best attacks in Europe already there who were on for the quadruple when he agreed to join with an unlimited pot of money behind him.
I dont think Pep brings us to the elite level because I dont think Pep has that fight in him.

Otamendi, Stones, Walker, Delph/Zinchenko are not to players, they are good players who played at very good level under Pep.

City didn't rest when they were at the top, they wanted to make their squad even stronger.

City were not at the level they are when he took over. City spent money just like we did, they improved miles better as they had awesome coach, we didn't as we hired poor ones.

Also it might happen in Football manager but no manager in real life would spend less when they have chance to improve their squad with money available.

So Ruben Dias, Stones, Zinchenko were considered as top class players before this season?

 

[Inigo Montoya]

I'm not.

I just dont resort to some strange notion that he wont work with us.

It's like liverpool saying saf cant win anywhere else

Do you honestly think the guy who’s already in a pressure cooker situation will leave it due to the pressure and walk into an even greater one?
I don’t and I think he’s headed back to the continent for his next job

 

[Mickson]

Probably yes, but I think Klopp would've been an even better fit and he would've won too.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

I'm not disputing Klopp could win the title at United if he came to us instead of Liverpool. But to dismiss Pep is unbelievable I think. Pep is a fantastic coach, yes he's had extra resources, but he has also been more dominant in every trophy bar the champions league. City last season fell away a bit, but with a couple of smart signings mainly Dias, he has turned it around and IMO I think this City side might become the greatest City side. There's just a balance in that squad that is near perfect and they are dominating every game they play whether it's Klopps Liverpool, Mourinhos Spurs and I fear Oles United when we play them shortly.

Pep is no doubt a genius, but like any genius he's flawed. As a person, he struggles with big personalities (e.g. Ibrahimovic, Sane etc) and I'm not convinced he's the best man manager. He gets his respect because of that very genius, players are in awe of his knowledge of the game and if they work with him they can improve immensely in his system.

I'll en use a strange analogy for Pep , he's the worlds best sculptor when he can use the finest marble and the best tools at his disposal, if a tool breaks he's backed in a way that it can be quickly replaced. That's exactly what its been like for him at his previous clubs and especially at City where the Chequebook has been blank. To continue the analogy, Klopp may not be able to replicate what Pep can do but give him some dirt and he'll produce something pretty spectacular with those resources.

That frankly terrible analogy is a convoluted way of saying that Pep can really only perform to his best when its all the ingredients are there and in that case he can elevate a team. Under the management and structure that we have seen at this club since Fergie left, I just don't think he would have been a roaring success. Klopp on the other hand would have certainly got more out of some of our lessor players.

 

[GMoore23]

Wouldn't any decent manager have won the league at City with the resources Pep's been given to play with.

 

[cyberman]

Wouldn't any decent manager have won the league at City with the resources Pep's been given to play with.

They were before Pep came along

 

[doomy20]

Sure and anyone who disagrees speaks out of jealousy.
Of course resources at Barca, Bayern, City but hey, nowadays resources are no guarantee at all to win trophies. And he would have got plenty of resources here too, we spend hundreds of millions.
He is a winner, a mastermind and we can cheer the day he leaves City because as long as he is there, they will win more trophies than we do.

 

[Regalia]

Of course he would have won PL title(s) with us, especially if he came back in 2012/13. Even after that, he would have fixed whatever mess there was and got the squad to play how he wanted really quick. And how he plays has been proven to win things. Money is not an excuse since we have spent almost as much as City since SAF left anyway. Anyone saying no is either delusional, jealous or just trying to mask our current manager's inability to elevate our team by blaming...well, everything else.

 

[Infra-red]

Wouldn't any decent manager have won the league at City with the resources Pep's been given to play with.

Perhaps. But I don't think a purely 'decent' manager would have achieved 100 points in a single season or won three Premier League titles in four years, as he will surely do this season. Nor would a 'decent' manager have built the sides Guardiola did at Bayern and in particular Barca, the latter of which is the best team I have ever seen.

 

[Jim Beam]

Pep's a much better coach than Klopp, why do you think Klopp would have done better here than Pep?

Personally, I see Pep as more systematic, methodic type of manager. A one who will commit himself fully to coach his philosophy into the team, but might be annoyed if things in the background are not perfect or match his ambitions, so from that side I can see a possible collision with him and our board after some time.

Klopp seems far more impulsive, energetic, even somewhat chatioc as a character. Things like fans commitment and appreciation mean a lot to him. You have a feeling he would rather go to a struggling giant and help him stand on his feet then to a club like Madrid. That's why I think he would not only bridge some misunderstanding far more easier, but manage to lift the club as a whole which is exactly what we need (and in which segment Ole is doing a very solid job btw).

The truth is they would both almost certainly win the league with us. They are two best outthere unfortunately. Eventually, we will have our guy too.

 

[Dec9003]

Of course he would, he’s the best manager in the world. Sure City spend money, but look at what we spent in the summer and what we have to show for it. At some point this season VDB and Diallo will be on the bench, which works out at what 60/70 million? Sitting on the bench, that’s not including however much we spent for Pellistri so he can play in Spain. The football Peps city team play is brilliant, as annoying as it is to admit it.

 

[Spaghetti]

City just scrapped 4th, joint on points ahead of LVG’s United when he took over @Spaghetti

That’s a good point. However, I’d say they were a quality, young team who had a bad season, rather than an old team going through terrible transition. There’s a big difference.

Look at the City squad that finished 4th.

 

[united_99]

Assuming he came after LvG he would probably have won 1-2 league titles by now, but not in his first two seasons.
He wouldn’t have spent insane money on Lukaku and Pogba to start with. Instead he would have spent money on a goalkeeper, 2 midfielders, 2 fullbacks, 4 CBs and 2-3 forwards/wide players. You can’t do all this just in one or two seasons. You also have to sell some players first as United can’t afford to have 35-40 expensive players on our payroll.
I would say in his first two seasons he would have made top four so would still be here in his 3rd/4th season to fine tune the squad and win titles.

 

[GoldTrafford99]

Nice fan fiction.

Up there with liverpool how am i doing boss

You can choose not to believe if you don't want... I couldn't give a shit.

But that is the truth.

 

[Hansinity]

Definitely. On top of that he would have improved tons of players without any doubts. So many times I heard player mentioning Pep when asked which coach taught them most. It is quite telling when players like Lahm and Robben replied with Pep. I always doubted him for his stubborness with his system and tactics, but there is no doubt that he is an amazing mentor for every player he coaches.

 

[united_99]

Also would like to add that if he had joined us City wouldn’t have hired Moyes instead. They would still have spent insane money and their manager would most probably have won 1 league title. Klopp would still have won last season’s title and Conte his league title. That would actually leave us with just 1 title with Pep so far. We can’t ignore that City and Chelsea will keep spending regardless of the manager.

 

[Tom Cato]

Pep won three league titles in a row there. That happened only once in 30 years before he joined Bayern.

Bayern also won the Treble German version of the Treble before he took over. And has won the league every year since 2012/2013.

Since Pep left Barcelona, Jürgen Klopp has had more success as a manager outside the domestic leagues in European competitions.

To Pep's credit, the winning streak Manchester City is currently on, is a Premier League record by 3 games and counting.

 

[Botim]

It's completely fair to argue that Pep is not as much a result of his managerial ability as he is a result of having the best players of the game available to him.

This keeps being said, but really take a look at the team that is currently dominating the PL. Are these "the best players available in the game"? We have a much better front line, for starters. Their midfield isn't exceptional either (bar KDB). Sure he needs a very specific type of player, but it's clearly his system that does the trick, rather than just the individual brilliance of the players.

No reason to think it wouldn't have worked at united, if we had allowed him his own transfer targets (and not shoved lukaku down his throat)

 

[r3idy]

Of course he would, he’s the best manager in the world. Sure City spend money, but look at what we spent in the summer and what we have to show for it. At some point this season VDB and Diallo will be on the bench, which works out at what 60/70 million? Sitting on the bench, that’s not including however much we spent for Pellistri so he can play in Spain. The football Peps city team play is brilliant, as annoying as it is to admit it.

Hmm Disagree is a strong word but I am going to use it anyway. It always get's thrown around that we have spent as much as City but the reality is we have wasted probably a lot more $$$ than City have through having a really poor infrastructure and the ongoing debate of not having football people run our club. A few seasons ago, Pep wasted a kings ransom on two duff full backs, the solution, go and spend exactly the same amount of money the following summer to fix the problem. There is three maybe five clubs who can afford to make that expensive mistake and United is not one of them.

As for Pep Ball, I probably go against the grain with a lot of fans but I really do find it dull as utter dish water. U look at some of the Bayern chat boards towards the end of his reign and they could not wait to see the back of him. Death by possession football sprinkled with individual brilliance. Again only my opinion but some of his Barcelona Prime football was of a much higher standard and significantly more entertaining than what is currently being served over at the Etihad. Even his earlier City teams were more pleasing on the eye, more raw, more aggressive, more exciting.

Absolutely no doubt he gets more out of his players by his meticulous planning and high standards. He is clearly a student of the game and is without doubt an Elite tier coach. Let's not make any bones about it though he has been backed and also blessed. He walked into a Barcelona set up with a once in a generation team cultivated not only be La Masia training academy but also they were the core of the all conquering youth team that were further developed by probably the best youth set up globally at the time. Then you add in arguably the genius of Lionel Messi. Bayern, same story. City, the foundations were laid down for him with infrastructure, training facilities, scouting and on top of that, pretty much any player he wanted at his disposal with a few exceptions such as Messi, Neymar. No Elite level manager would fail in either of those set up's, none.

Personally would have preferred Klopp over Guardiola given the choice. His style of football is just more to my liking.

 

[AshRK]

He would have but not like what he has done with City. Here he would have said you have got one defender that you bought so you can't have more. He would have been under more pressure also if he was managing us.

 

[Thunderhead]

That’s a good point. However, I’d say they were a quality, young team who had a bad season, rather than an old team going through terrible transition. There’s a big difference.

Look at the City squad that finished 4th.

quality young team, hahaha

Bravo
Willy C
Sagna
Toure
Zabaleta
Fernandinho
Kompany
Kolarov
Navas
Silva
Clichy
Nolito

all the wrong side of 30

Not one full back under the age of 31, only players in prime aged 25-29 were KDB, Gundo, Delph, Aguero and Otamendi, we were a creaking aging team full of players far past their best who just scraped 4th the season before.

edit -

and the season before was even worse, the only players we had under the age of 25 were

Stering, Denayer, Zucuilini, Roberts and Kelichi, every other players was 25+ with 12 being over the age of 30

The squad had needed a massive overhaul before Pep came and it was only his 2nd season when he ripped it up by spending £150m on full backs.

 

[OleTheGreat]

This is wonderful philosophy to keep the players wide and making the play big. He loves keeping possession of the ball and moving the ball quickly. He loves players who are always aware of their position and always thinking about the next pass before the ball even arrives at their feet. Pep has revolutionized football and I was one of the few who hate him to the core for choosing the wrong side of Manchester. He would've gained a lot more fans and I can happily say that with us he could've even won a CL trophy which he never has since leaving Barca. I love Pep's ideologies but I hate him.

 

[Leftback99]

Only if our recruitment was a lot better, which like Klopp at Liverpool isn't all down to him. He wouldn't win the league with our squad.

 

[OleTheGreat]

Pep working closely with Woodward and judge, what could go wrong

hahaha...

 

[SirAnderson]

Can't be bothered to read all 5 pages but it seems we got a few that say no.
I'd like to think he would.

Maybe a poll would be helpful to see the difference? I'm assuming most say yes.

 

[Hal9000]

Let's face it, he would not have gotten the backing he has a City. They brought in a lot of the people that made Barca a success behind the scenes without the Barca politics before and after his arrival. Pretty sure City had been gearing up to attract him for a few years before he actually arrvied.

He's working with people he's had a previous close working relationship with, he's not held back by someone like Woodward/Glazers.

Not to mention we would not have allowed him to spend £421 million on defenders.

 

[MrMarcello]

I very highly doubt it, and I'm amazed at the unanimity of 'yes's this question has generated. It's as if people still don't get why we're shite.

City created the infrastructure for him, got sporting directors in place who shared his vision, bought players who fit his system, and shifted players on ruthlessly when they didn't. All of those things require a singularity of focus off the pitch, a belief in what the club is doing, and a coherent plan on how to achieve it.

Pep is an excellent manager, but everything about how we've been off the pitch since Ferguson retired would have set him up to fail. We've never seen anything from Pep to suggest he could be the old style British manger with complete oversight for football operations that our club requires.

That's the elephant in the room - the modern game has big clubs appointing people to make these decisions, using increased scouting networks and analytics. United upper management are only concerned about making profits for their overlords, with one man obsessed with his role as the head of it all. The days of the manager overseeing everything from top to bottom have long since passed. It's time United move from the past to the present with an eye on the future.

 

[MrMarcello]

Sure, if you ignore all the many reports and quotes by other manager that suggest Moyes wasn't our first choice, as well as quotes from SAF himself:

"I asked Pep to phone me before he accepted an offer from another club but he didn't and wound up joining Bayern Munich in July 2013. When we started the process of looking for my replacement, we established that several very desirable candidates were unavailable.
It became apparent that Jose Mourinho had given his word to Roman Abramovich that he would return to Chelsea and that Carlo Ancelotti would succeed him at Real Madrid. We also knew that Jurgen Klopp was happy at Borussia Dortmund and would be signing a new contract. Meantime, Louis van Gaal had undertaken to lead the Dutch attempt to win the 2014 World Cup. We chose David Moyes."

It's astonishing to list all those top tier names then suddenly have Moyes as the choice. Sounds like revisionist history or covering one's role in selecting an utter failure. Surely there had to be more than six persons vying for the job. And even if more than six, surely Moyes wasn't seen as the sixth ranked person on the list.

 

[MrMarcello]

I think he would have, but hard to know.

But he hasn't with better squads at Bayern and City, how does he pull it off with United?

 

[Jim Beam]

It's astonishing to list all those top tier names then suddenly have Moyes as the choice. Sounds like revisionist history or covering one's role in selecting an utter failure. Surely there had to be more than six persons vying for the job. And even if more than six, surely Moyes wasn't seen as the sixth ranked person on the list.

Am with you. I think all those managers have been considered, but in some crazy thought of mind which I even somehow understand Moyes was looked as the one who would go on with things in the same manner disregarding what a jump to the highest level actually means.

I don't think he was ever 6th choice, I think he was always one of the top as strange as it looks now.

 

[Blueman]

I think Pep would have taken Utd (or lfc) to new levels if he'd picked them. Seriously, Barca/RM heights with Mbappe and other top top names wanting to join the project.

I dont think Pep wants the politics though, I am convinced having seen how he enjoys it at City and didnt stop at Byern, I think he hates the press spotlight that comes with big big clubs - It interferes too much in his dreams of total football and emphasis on team rather than individuals.

It's also quite intereesting that tables have turned for him against Klopp. Klopps (Smaller club) Dortmund -v- Big big club Bayern. And now the tables have turned with Klopp having the big european club and Pep having a club with a lot less impact in the world of football

 

[Foxbatt]

I feel the question is not that is Pep going to win with the current United squad. Is he going to win the PL if he had come to United? Absolutely. He would not be buying these players bought by Moyes, LVG, Jose and Ole. People have to go back to Cruijff to see what he thought of Pep.
I remember Cruijff saying a long time ago that if the player in possession has one option to pass, it would be blocked and should be blocked. If he has two then maybe it's possible to still block. If he has three it's not possible.
Look at the way Barca played with Pep in the pivot. The way they moved the ball there are so many options available for a pass. City plays like that. That's why it's difficult. Put in quality players who can pass and control the ball well, it makes it more difficult to play against.
He does make players better certainly their positional awareness. No manager at this level is going to improve much the basic ball control of players. This is not the academy. What they would do is to make them better players in their awareness and positional play and movement that fits the tactics of the team in any given situation. The reason Cruijff picked Pep was he saw all these things in Pep.

 

[Fortitude]

I very highly doubt it, and I'm amazed at the unanimity of 'yes's this question has generated. It's as if people still don't get why we're shite.

City created the infrastructure for him, got sporting directors in place who shared his vision, bought players who fit his system, and shifted players on ruthlessly when they didn't. All of those things require a singularity of focus off the pitch, a belief in what the club is doing, and a coherent plan on how to achieve it.

Pep is an excellent manager, but everything about how we've been off the pitch since Ferguson retired would have set him up to fail. We've never seen anything from Pep to suggest he could be the old style British manger with complete oversight for football operations that our club requires.

I'll go with this.

Pep removes players in swathes when arriving at a new club. He then buys a horde to replace them. United don't run in that way and there's no evidence to suggest we would have for Pep.

He's also not particularly great in the transfer market, and when he gets it wrong, he just throws those players away and gets new ones in. He would not be given that freedom here.

He'd have to conform to managing and coping with a budget, which is not an arena Pep has ever dealt with in his managerial career.