If someone told you at the start of the season...

[Dominos]

If someone told you at the start of the campaign that at this stage of the season

1. We would be on course for 74 points total (for reference we got 66 last season)
2. We would be out of the CL at the group stage
3. We'd have won 2 league games convincingly all season (Leeds and Southampton)
4. We'd be on course to concede 49 league goals

And all this whilst overperforming our xPTS.

Would you have thought the season was going well, or satisfactory?

I'm afraid Liverpool and City letting their standards drop has fooled a lot of fans into thinking we're performing better than we are. The illusion of being a title race in January has added some excitement to the season but truthfully it doesn't look like we can win it and we'll be left hoping to get a slightly more comfortable top 4 finish than last season.

Frankly, 74 points at our current rate feels like a somewhat modest improvement from last year compared to what we were hoping for, no?

 

[Ali Dia]

I think that’s about right given the lack of investment in the team last summer. If we invest we can kick on.

 

[Bwuk]

I don’t think you can judge a season like that.

It does feel like we’ve went from 2 steps backwards 1 step forwards, to 2 step forwards 1 step backwards.

 

[RooneyLegend]

It's unacceptable

 

[Sandikan]

Last season we scraped into 4th with a superb late run of form.

This season we're 2nd so far.

It's hard to say we've not improved overall so far.

 

[Dominos]

I think that’s about right given the lack of investment in the team last summer. If we invest we can kick on.

Posssibly, I'd put this season down as no more than adequate in that case - I can't say I share the same excitement about this team that most on here do.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

We’re definitely alot better than last season.

I want more but it’s definitely much improved. Style of play is often better, we’re more fun to watch more often.
Still too many errors from management and players have cost us our CL spot and going further into a league title battle.
Shame, iron some of that out and we’ll be miles better still.

 

[TMDaines]

If someone told you at the start of the campaign that at this stage of the season

1. We would be on course for 74 points total (for reference we got 66 last season)
2. We would be out of the CL at the group stage
3. We'd have won 2 league games convincingly all season (Leeds and Southampton)
4. We'd be on course to concede 49 league goals

And all this whilst overperforming our xPTS.

Would you have thought the season was going well, or satisfactory?

I'm afraid Liverpool and City letting their standards drop has fooled a lot of fans into thinking we're performing better than we are. The illusion of being a title race in January has added some excitement to the season but truthfully it doesn't look like we can win it and we'll be left hoping to get a slightly more comfortable top 4 finish than last season.

Frankly, 74 points at our current rate feels like a somewhat modest improvement from last year compared to what we were hoping for, no?

Overperforming your expected points isn’t really a good sign for the longer term as you point out. We’re definitely lucky to be where we are this season.

I think we definitely feel better about ourselves given the circumstances of tripping into third last year and having stumbled into a title race (albeit one which we could only muster a fight for for two weeks). Objectively, us arguably being the third best team in the country says more about the competition domestically. The cups have been very revealing about us still being a good couple of steps away from the top.

 

[Bojan11]

We look better.

But no manager is winning anything with this defence or goalkeeper. They shit the bricks when under pressure constantly especially in big games that count.

 

[Dominos]

I think that’s about right given the lack of investment in the team last summer. If we invest we can kick on.

In terms of reasons we should have improved this year

- We've had Bruno all season rather than less than half a season like last year
- Pogba has been fit all season whereas he missed most of last year
- Rashford and Martial have been fit all season this season whereas they had significant injury spells last year
- We've signed Cavani, Telles and VDB

All in all, 74 points feels like we've done the bare minimum improvement. And the less said about the CL group stage the better.

 

[Zlatan 7]

We’ve had a great season and are just short of ironing out a few blips and getting someone commanding at the back.

The fact people are moaning about Ole saying we shouldn’t be considered in the title race shows how far we’ve come since last year

 

[Gazautd18]

We're Manchester United not Aston Villa.
Hate these threads.

 

[dove]

Content. Slight improvement but I would still bet for us finishing outside TOP 4. We were pushing our luck for the past few months and I think it finally ran out. We look better going forward but our inability to defend will cost us much more points this season and I am not convinced it's purely because of the lack of quality in our players. Set pieces is coaching issue which has been ongoing for years now with no signs of it improving. Anyway, we are on track of bare minimum as always...

 

[Betson]

FFS, we are not Aston Villa or West ham with due respects to them , we are the biggest club in the world who has spent 100's of millions of quid on our squad since our last title win and we are supposed to be happy with been not quite as shit as we were the last few years.

Liverpool and City will never be as injury hit and weak again and we still can't take advantage because we are still so far behind where a club of our stature should be.

 

[Dominos]

We’ve had a great season and are just short of ironing out a few blips and getting someone commanding at the back.

The fact people are moaning about Ole saying we shouldn’t be considered in the title race shows how far we’ve come since last year

See this is what I can't understand.

How could 74 points top 4 finish and out at the CL group stage ever be a great season? Are we Everton or something?

Something along the lines of "adequate improvement" I might be able to understand, but great season?

 

[Dan_F]

If someone told you at the start of the campaign that at this stage of the season

1. We would be on course for 74 points total (for reference we got 66 last season)
2. We would be out of the CL at the group stage
3. We'd have won 2 league games convincingly all season (Leeds and Southampton)
4. We'd be on course to concede 49 league goals

And all this whilst overperforming our xPTS.

Would you have thought the season was going well, or satisfactory?

I'm afraid Liverpool and City letting their standards drop has fooled a lot of fans into thinking we're performing better than we are. The illusion of being a title race in January has added some excitement to the season but truthfully it doesn't look like we can win it and we'll be left hoping to get a slightly more comfortable top 4 finish than last season.

Frankly, 74 points at our current rate feels like a somewhat modest improvement from last year compared to what we were hoping for, no?

Do you not think that bar the VVD injury, we might be suffering from some of the same issues as those teams? The whole league is up and down this year, but you expect us to be immune to this?

We have exactly the same first team, bar VDB who doesn’t play. Any improvements we made have to be seen as positive.

 

[Dominos]

We're Manchester United not Aston Villa.
Hate these threads.

I think you may have misread the point of the thread?

 

[Wayne's World]

We are watching our biggest rivals win a tittle again. I'm sorry don't give a shit about how many points we might win. It's not acceptable

 

[el3mel]

The season has overall been pretty good (apart from the CL debacle bullshit) but it's these matches that thanks to it we'll never win the league when it was really possible and a golden chance this season imo.

 

[Leftback99]

The season is going better than expected but somehow still annoying. We could be comfortable for top 4 but it could easily slip away from us yet.

 

[Ali Dia]

We take too long to adapt or correct mistakes we make. Who gave ddg that contract and why? Ok he’s stinking the place out but he’ll still play anyway because his contract instead of being an asset is a problem. Then we go do the same thing again with Henderson? Maguire shouldn’t be captain as he still makes too many mistakes and he’s not vocal or aggressive enough. Easy fix give it to Bruno who is vocal and productive. Same with Rashford absolutely no competition for his place or anyone giving him shit for being so wasteful and selfish. we could be top of the league if he took or laid off some more of his many squandered chances. We are probably going to end up majorly doubling down on Pogba too just when it looks like we’ve finally turned a corner...

I’m happy with how we’ve done this season despite the owners being happy to leave the manager with a team with key positions empty and little to no squad competition to keep standards up. I think the manager is doing well. It’s the squad still just isn’t good enough to get to that next level.

 

[Niall]

We’re not good enough to make a title challenge yet. But...

• Are we a better team than last season?
• Are we better and more entertaining to watch than last season (heck pick any season since Fergie retired)?
• Are various players improving the longer the manager is in charge?
• Is our squad strength in depth better than previous seasons?
• Are we making astute signings to improve the team in the right areas?
• Are we addressing issues we’ve had in recent seasons (eg being able to open up and beat more defensive minded teams)?
• Are we showing more consistency in our results eg going on winning runs, unbeaten runs?
• Are we playing in a fashion that is true to the clubs heritage and fans expectations?

If the answer to all or most of those is yes (which I say it is) then we should be feeling very positive about where we’re going as a club.

Our defence has serious issues yes but the rest of the team is markedly improving and frankly we are as good as we have ever been since Fergie retired.

You can’t just click your fingers and transform the team overnight. With the mess we were in it takes years. We are finally seeing the pay-off of sticking with the right approach but we’re not finished yet.

Comparing predicted points tallies or how other teams are not performing overlooks all the excellent progress we’ve made.

Just think back to the absolute shit on a stick we were under Jose and Van Gaal. We couldn’t buy a goal at times and the football was beyond dire at times. Now we look, feel and play like a Manchester United side.

Patience and cool heads are needed. We are on the right track and everything, including the stats, year on year shows it. I think a trophy this season will really get this team humming and believing in itself to realise its full potential.

 

[pocco]

I think that’s about right given the lack of investment in the team last summer. If we invest we can kick on.

We spent £60-70m last January too.

 

[rhajdu]

I think that we are much better than a year before. I am planning my days around our matches once again what I sadly stopped a few years ago. I have been following Manchester United since I was a small kid (so that's 20+ years) so no wonder that the club somehow influences my life. I wasn't my best in the last few years, but I am feeling much better nowadays, and I started to get back my belief.

Also, this season is much different due to the tight schedule so I don't think that Manchester City and Liverpool miraculously dropped their standards. We might be even better in a normal season (e.g. chance for a proper preseason, extra motivation - Rashford would surely get appreciation from rival fans as well and Fernandes would love to interact with the fans). So I think Ole is managing the squad well enough.

 

[AKDevil]

If someone told you at the start of the campaign that at this stage of the season

1. We would be on course for 74 points total (for reference we got 66 last season)
2. We would be out of the CL at the group stage
3. We'd have won 2 league games convincingly all season (Leeds and Southampton)
4. We'd be on course to concede 49 league goals

And all this whilst overperforming our xPTS.

Would you have thought the season was going well, or satisfactory?

I'm afraid Liverpool and City letting their standards drop has fooled a lot of fans into thinking we're performing better than we are. The illusion of being a title race in January has added some excitement to the season but truthfully it doesn't look like we can win it and we'll be left hoping to get a slightly more comfortable top 4 finish than last season.

Frankly, 74 points at our current rate feels like a somewhat modest improvement from last year compared to what we were hoping for, no?

yes but such comments have no context.If you said you’re going to lose at home to bottom of the table Sheffield United, get knocked out the CL after winning first two and arguably hardest games and draw with Everton after leading 2-0 and 3-2. Also doesn’t mention losing 3 of first 4 home games of whatever it was.

 

[Dominos]

Do you not think that bar the VVD injury, we might be suffering from some of the same issues as those teams? The whole league is up and down this year, but you expect us to be immune to this?

We have exactly the same first team, bar VDB who doesn’t play. Any improvements we made have to be seen as positive.

I'm not sure it's as weird a season as everyone thinks it is.

City are on course for 85 points so they've actually improved from last year.

Liverpool massively overperformed their xPTS last year and were never going to be able to keep that same intensity that saw them nearly hit 100 points in the last 2 years. On top of that they've finally had injury problems which they've been lucky with for the last 3 years. Whilst we have basically been injury free (credit to our fitness staff and Ole for managing us on this front).

We finished 3rd last season on 66 points. I suspect we'll finish 2nd/3rd this season on around 75 points depending on whether Liverpool get their shit together.

 

[pascell]

Given the money the team/squad is worth, I'd say it's a very poor return.

Our attack has constantly had to dig our defence out the sh*t all season. Our defence on the pitch tonight was worth £190m, yet defended like a League One level defence, as it has the majority of the season.

We desperately need a defensive minded coach to get them drilled into a proper structure and get it organised once and for all. Until this happens, we'll still concede very sloppy goals and look shame when attacked.

 

[Rozay]

At the start of the season most fans are clueless. Why is a sensible measuring point the point before the actual football has started rather than assessing matches? At the start of the season on here half the fans had thrown their toys because we didn’t sign Sancho and declared we need a ‘competent board’. If I recall, those were the exact words many used when we didn’t sign Minamino or Hwang too.

The reality is, we were a lot better than the negative fans wanted to acknowledge at the start of the season.

 

[Dominos]

The season is going better than expected but somehow still annoying. We could be comfortable for top 4 but it could easily slip away from us yet.

How low were your expectations coming into this season if this is somehow exceeding them?

On course for 74 points and out at the CL group stage is exceeding expectations, how standards have dropped.

 

[sullydnl]

"Liverpool and City letting their standards drop has fooled a lot of fans into thinking we're performing better than we are" only really makes sense to me if you think that none of the factors that have seen them drop off apply to other teams too, which I don't.

I really dislike comparing points totals from different season anyway but this year in particular it seems a folly. Circumstances are very different.

It also depends on how much you actually expected us to improve this season. I didn't think we had a good summer transfer window, so my expectations were dampened. I never thought we were really title contenders despite our good position but I would never have expected us to be this season anyway.

As it stands I'm content with the level of improvement. If we comfortably qualify for the CL then we're where I'd have reasonably hoped we'd be heading into the summer, where we'll need to do better in terms of signings.

 

[Zlatan 7]

See this is what I can't understand.

How could 74 points top 4 finish and out at the CL group stage ever be a great season? Are we Everton or something?

Something along the lines of "adequate improvement" I might be able to understand, but great season?

No we aren’t Everton but we’ve been No where near the top for the past 7 years either and people act as if we should just be expected to win the league. Atleast now we seem to be on some kind of path of improvement and the footballs more enjoyable, great May have been a stretch when you factor in getting knocked out of the champions league early but as for enjoying games and seeing some nice goals and the way the team is playing I’ve been happy with that

 

[Ali Dia]

We spent £60-70m last January too.

I know. Still need those vital positions filled for the long term though. Cavani yeah we got lucky. Giving matic a 3 year deal has looked a crap decision. Too many bad contracts to even know where to start. If that’s our plan then we are either doing a very slow build or we aren’t going in the right direction.

edit: I think we are going in the right direction under Ole. We are definitely improving. The drama is gone. The clothing lines have gone. We want to win the matches more than anything we are just still lacking that bit of quality and competition. Money money money and picking the right players to come in

 

[Dominos]

Given the money the team/squad is worth, I'd say it's a very poor return.

Our attack has constantly had to dig our defence out the sh*t all season. Our defence on the pitch tonight was worth £190m, yet defended like a League One level defence, as it has the majority of the season.

We desperately need a defensive minded coach to get them drilled into a proper structure and get it organised once and for all. Until this happens, we'll still concede very sloppy goals and look shame when attacked.

Whilst our defence has definitely been shocking, we've had 5 league games where we haven't scored a goal, and half our games we've scored 1 goal or 0 goals. So we're inconsistent in attack too, the Southampton result skews the mean average.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

We’ll never win a league again with this **** of a fanbase.

“Manchester City have a better team so let’s not bother”, feck off.

 

[pocco]

If you look at the value of the previous players retained by Ole, the amount spent to date, and the likely amount to fill the positions that people are saying we still need to fill, we're probably looking at £1b team before we're apparently ready to compete. Pretty mental really.

And that's with Rashford costing nothing, who is meant to be the most valuable player in the world and a world class talent in Greenwood.

 

[el3mel]

We’ll never win a league again with this **** of a fanbase.

“Manchester City have a better team so let’s not bother”, feck off.

Yeah, this kind of mentality really pisses me off so much. League is a points game, not one on one. Just because a team has a better squad than you it doesn't mean they'll will win the long points game no matter what. We're not facing City every game of the 38 ones. 90% of ours games are against teams much worse than us. It's all about being consistent in these kind of games and grinding wins that win you the league, not being better or not against City.

 

[pascell]

Whilst our defence has definitely been shocking, we've had 5 league games where we haven't scored a goal, and half our games we've scored 1 goal or 0 goals. So we're inconsistent in attack too, the Southampton result skews the mean average.

True, very true, we seem to still have a lot of underlying problems which we had when Ole took over.

 

[passing-wind]

Any notion of acceptance is absolutely comical, knocked out of the UCL in the group stages is an immediate reaction for a domestic cup win and a top four finish MINIMUM. What's the point of playing for a 4th position if we have no idea of progressing within Europe. It's unacceptable.

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

Being out of Europe is inexcusable and is glossed over because we were top of the league for a week.

We have our most talented squad since 2011 but with huge holes that have been inexplicably ignored for too long.

There is blame for the owners and Ole for sure.

If we don't get top 4 Ole should be out.

Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal are all underperformed immensely and frankly Everton amd Leicester have nowhere near the amount of talent we do.

 

[Dominos]

We’re not good enough to make a title challenge yet. But...

• Are we a better team than last season?
• Are we better and more entertaining to watch than last season (heck pick any season since Fergie retired)?
• Are various players improving the longer the manager is in charge?
• Is our squad strength in depth better than previous seasons?
• Are we making astute signings to improve the team in the right areas?
• Are we addressing issues we’ve had in recent seasons (eg being able to open up and beat more defensive minded teams)?
• Are we showing more consistency in our results eg going on winning runs, unbeaten runs?
• Are we playing in a fashion that is true to the clubs heritage and fans expectations?

If the answer to all or most of those is yes (which I say it is) then we should be feeling very positive about where we’re going as a club.

Our defence has serious issues yes but the rest of the team is markedly improving and frankly we are as good as we have ever been since Fergie retired.

You can’t just click your fingers and transform the team overnight. With the mess we were in it takes years. We are finally seeing the pay-off of sticking with the right approach but we’re not finished yet.

Comparing predicted points tallies or how other teams are not performing overlooks all the excellent progress we’ve made.

Just think back to the absolute shit on a stick we were under Jose and Van Gaal. We couldn’t buy a goal at times and the football was beyond dire at times. Now we look, feel and play like a Manchester United side.

Patience and cool heads are needed. We are on the right track and everything, including the stats, year on year shows it. I think a trophy this season will really get this team humming and believing in itself to realise its full potential.

Mostly yes but just wanted to address the main question and what the thread is centred around.

• Are we a better team than last season?

Yes, but the level of improvement is surely what we look at? If we finished on 67 points this season we'd be a better team than last season, but it wouldn't be good enough. Would the 74 point mark and out at the CL group stage be a great improvement, or just adequate? I would like to see us go beyond the bare minimum. And keep in mind results are actually better than our performances generally, the eye test indicates that and it's backed up by xPTS.

We are not a signifcantly better side than Mourinho's 17/18 team for example. We just don't have City getting 100 points to make us look bad this year.