If this was 1989 what would we be saying about Fergie?

[Denis' cuff]

United had also booted out McGuinness, O'Farrell and Sexton in what seemed like double-quick time. All of those decisions were vindicated.

Sometimes the manager just needs to go.

Over a period of 10+ years not 5. None of those managers won trophies.

Tbf looking objectively we arent that bad under mourinho.

2 cups plus second position isnt some armageddon many portrays us to be

Yep - a bit different to relegation. United were the biggest/wealthiest club back then, too, finishing below halfway and then relegation. We had supporters then, not customers.

 

[Denis' cuff]

Martin Edwards was probably a bigger bellend than Woodward.

Not really but besides the point. Woodward is just the puppet. Edwards did ok out of the club but was the owner who generally had the team’s interests at heart... well, a fecking sight more than these parasites in Florida do.

 

[Joseforever]

What pains me about football these days is the lack of time managers receive, look what Joes has achieved since he's taken over the club and fans are calling for his head after two games!

Klopp has won nothing and he's lauded as some messiah type figure by the Liverpool fans, Jose finished 2nd with us last season and achieved a higher points total than some of title winning sides we had under Fergie.

Jose also won the Europa League and League cup double in his first season. The same double that Klopp bottled in his first season, also remember this statistic Mourinho's win percentage with United 61% and Klopp win percentage with Liverpool 52%.

The twisted media agenda against Mourinho and the Klopp love in by them is sickening.

 

[Cheesy]

What pains me about football these days is the lack of time managers receive, look what Joes has achieved since he's taken over the club and fans are calling for his head after two games!

Klopp has won nothing and he's lauded as some messiah type figure by the Liverpool fans, Jose finished 2nd with us last season and achieved a higher points total than some of title winning sides we had under Fergie.

Jose also won the Europa League and League cup double in his first season. The same double that Klopp bottled in his first season, also remember this statistic Mourinho's win percentage with United 61% and Klopp win percentage with Liverpool 52%.

The twisted media agenda against Mourinho and the Klopp love in by them is sickening.

Managers not getting time is ultimately just the way the game works now - a lot of them tend not to control the club to the fullest extent as was the case back in the day, and player power means that when the squad genuinely turns against the manager, there isn't really any solution except bringing in a new one, irrespective of how good that manager is.

I'd argue Jose and Klopp are being assessed differently because they're being judged by different expectations. We've spent the majority of the past few decades winning titles. We'd had three poor seasons (compared to what went before) and Mourinho was brought in to get us winning the league again, and competing in the CL. Klopp came into a Liverpool side that'd essentially been a glorified upper mid-table outfit for most of the decade thus far (aside from 2013-14) and who were going to be satisfied provided he restored regular CL football. Now he's spending more money and is being expected to compete, I suspect he'll be judged more harshly.

 

[Sky1981]

Managers not getting time is ultimately just the way the game works now - a lot of them tend not to control the club to the fullest extent as was the case back in the day, and player power means that when the squad genuinely turns against the manager, there isn't really any solution except bringing in a new one, irrespective of how good that manager is.

I'd argue Jose and Klopp are being assessed differently because they're being judged by different expectations. We've spent the majority of the past few decades winning titles. We'd had three poor seasons (compared to what went before) and Mourinho was brought in to get us winning the league again, and competing in the CL. Klopp came into a Liverpool side that'd essentially been a glorified upper mid-table outfit for most of the decade thus far (aside from 2013-14) and who were going to be satisfied provided he restored regular CL football. Now he's spending more money and is being expected to compete, I suspect he'll be judged more harshly.

Problem is if we're gonna sack everyone that finished 2nd or 3rd every time we wont get far either.

There's really no guarantee if klopp or poch armed with 500m warchest can win. Sometimes shit happens over the course of a season.

If we're going to slag managers for not playing beautiful football and winning at the same time we'd be in dire situation. What if 2 years down the road pochetinno decided he wants to move to madrid?

We have to fix our fundamental first before we can change and chop managers. Madrid chelsea city had their fundamental set, they can afford to swap managers every year. We arent there yet. If we swap manager every 2 years it'll be catastrophical.

And let's not be naive thinking it couldnt be worse than jose. It could possibly become much worse. Remember how we all thought we're too big to fail that even Moyes doesnt ring an alarm bell? Or when we think we're too big not to win the league again in a few years? Or when we all though all it takes post fergie is a few barren years? It could be worse, just as it could be better.

I'd give mourinho time untill the table says otherwise. He should be sacked for finishing 6th in his first year, but to his credit he did won the euro cup. He finished 2nd last season. Objective wise he doesnt deserve the boot. Everything else is romantism.

 

[Red_Ramirez]

What pains me about football these days is the lack of time managers receive, look what Joes has achieved since he's taken over the club and fans are calling for his head after two games!

Klopp has won nothing and he's lauded as some messiah type figure by the Liverpool fans, Jose finished 2nd with us last season and achieved a higher points total than some of title winning sides we had under Fergie.

Jose also won the Europa League and League cup double in his first season. The same double that Klopp bottled in his first season, also remember this statistic Mourinho's win percentage with United 61% and Klopp win percentage with Liverpool 52%.

The twisted media agenda against Mourinho and the Klopp love in by them is sickening.

Mate the media are ABU cnuts

Their current love-in with Klopp and Liverpool is embarassing but not surprising

Until they win the PL title under Klopp Liverpool today coupled with the media love-in to me are just the modern day mid-90's Kevin Keegan's Newcastle United. 'The entertainers' basically.

If they just stay as the entainers and continue to bottle it and win feck all I will be pleased

 

[vidic blood & sand]

I don't remember the mood among United fans being so toxic since the days of the late 80s when all hope seemed lost - we were constantly finishing mid-table and looking like we were nowhere near challenging. The fans were up in arms about the quality of football and people were calling for Fergie to be sacked and replaced by Steve Coppell.

There's so many bullshiters in this forum that say they never doubted Fergie back in 1989. Always gives me a laugh when they say that.

 

[vidic blood & sand]

We've invested £900million in transfers since 2012/12. You're talking through your hole.

What that response lacked in charm and eloquence, it more than made up for in accuracy.

 

[RedNed77]

Not really but besides the point. Woodward is just the puppet. Edwards did ok out of the club but was the owner who generally had the team’s interests at heart... well, a fecking sight more than these parasites in Florida do.

If Martin Edwards hadn't privatised the club at the very first opportunity he got, the Glazers would probably never have happened. He fecked himself by getting out quickly and relatively cheaply and fecked the club at the same time. Like his dad before him, he had his own interests at heart first and foremost.

 

[Zahed]

I'm guessing the answer the OP wants is that 'people would have been wanting Fergie out', but it'd be stupid to stop there and not take into account the conditions then and what is obtainable now. Thus, making the comparison and point the OP is trying to make, useless.

Well said. SAF hadn't spent the equivalent of £400 million either.

 

[Class of 63]

By early 90s standards Cantona wasn't exactly cheap.

Fergie had a great eye for a bargain but he was also not adverse to spending big when he needed to.

Had social media existed in 1989 I reckon Sir Alex would have been done for. Thankfully it wasn't and he was given time to rebuild Man Utd into what it needs to be.

You what ? Cantona for £1.2m was a absolute steal, at the same time City paid £2.5m each for defenders Terry Phelan and Keith Curle from Wimbledon, and neither were considered top-bracket at the time.

 

[Zahed]

Frankly the infrastructure left behind when Ferguson was gone seems to have been lacking. Maybe we should be more patient with Mourinho. Its hard to argue he didn't put us in a drastically better position than what he started with.

The infrastructure that was put in place by SAF, that of serial winners was dismantled by Moyes. He bought in people who didn't know what a winning mentality was.....just knowing how to finish seventh.

 

[Class of 63]

If the internet had been around in 1989, 99 per cent of us would have been demanding Fergie be sacked, and there's no point pretending otherwise. It's a good question: when does enough become enough for any manager- I'm not talking Mourinho here. Nobody is clairvoyant and knows what may happen in the future; decisions can only be taken in the here and now. Thankfully, the board ignored the majority of the fans back in 1989; would that be possible in the social media age?

That's just rubbish, there were a few calling for his head, but never as many as the press would've had people believe, we were a more patient crowd back then, christ there was hardly anybody calling for Dave Sexton's head either, in fact it came as a surprise to many of us when he got sacked after winning the last seven games of the season.

 

[RedFish]

That he is being fecked by the chairman

 

[#07]

You what ? Cantona for £1.2m was a absolute steal, at the same time City paid £2.5m each for defenders Terry Phelan and Keith Curle from Wimbledon, and neither were considered top-bracket at the time.

We’re talking about a world in which we broke the British transfer record by buying Keane for like £3m. Yes, Cantona was a bargain relative to his ability, much cheaper than he should’ve been cos Leeds wanted him out. But, as I recall, fees above £1m were seen as big fees back in the early 90s.

 

[lococol]

Couldn’t disagree more, his third year here and we look more clueless now than when he first took over.

when did we look clueless? Last season when we finished second? during the tour with half the players missing or during the first 2 games of the season? I know City have raised the bar but we are actually not that bad. I really dont know what the panic is about. I don't think City will do as well this season because they are the team that everyone wants to beat now. Also, on topic, I remember back in the day that Fergies teams didn't really start playing well until after the Christmas period then he went all out. I might be remembering wrong though because its a bit of a blur. can anyone verify that?

 

[Castia]

when did we look clueless? Last season when we finished second? during the tour with half the players missing or during the first 2 games of the season? I know City have raised the bar but we are actually not that bad. I really dont know what the panic is about. I don't think City will do as well this season because they are the team that everyone wants to beat now. Also, on topic, I remember back in the day that Fergies teams didn't really start playing well until after the Christmas period then he went all out. I might be remembering wrong though because its a bit of a blur. can anyone verify that?

We came second last year playing some of the worst football I’ve seen and we finished so far off the top that second meant absolutely nothing. Losing the cup final added to a shit season, I didn’t enjoy last year at all.

Jose’ first season was better, we got 2 cups and whilst we finished 6th the football served up was better than last year.

 

[lococol]

We came second last year playing some of the worst football I’ve seen and we finished so far off the top that second meant absolutely nothing. Losing the cup final added to a shit season, I didn’t enjoy last year at all.

Jose’ first season was better, we got 2 cups and whilst we finished 6th the football served up was better than last year.

Fair enough. Not the complete team yet though are we? A work in progress still I would say. How many seasons has it took for Klopp to get them lot half decent? Pep is an exception, probably the best manager in the game at the moment. Jose is decent. He needs to stop moaning and the players need to start scoring.

 

[caid]

The infrastructure that was put in place by SAF, that of serial winners was dismantled by Moyes. He bought in people who didn't know what a winning mentality was.....just knowing how to finish seventh.

Maybe, regardless the infrastructure needed, and still needs work.

 

[JSC]

This isn't just the case of yesterday. Trying to catch City last season was ofcourse impossible. And we managed to win against all the teams in atleast once. That's quite a good achievement as well. But can anyone even honestly say that he's improved this team that much? And for the team not knowing what to do with the ball once again, it's the managers fault and only his. Yesterday was absolutely dire, some players shat the bed. But there was not even a hint of come back. And even looking back to last season, I'm sure that you can find performances like that even in the games we ended up winning.

I've always heard how he uses the media to turn all the attention on himself, thus protecting the players. And what he's done here is nothing like that. I don't think the comments from Pogba recently is not just overblown by the media. It seems genuine displeasure at how things are going at the club.

I was never a fan of Mourinho, starting from his victory with Porto at OT. But for the sake of this club I hope he improves. It makes me miserable as a United supporter, us not playing to the level we can. I hope either we improve; as in play a dominant brand of football, or he gets sacked before he loses it completely. Signs of the latter are there already.

I had a little game on Fifa today as Utd and straight away, the commentators reference the post Fergie era and how Old Trafford is 'no longer a fortress' as per all the losses we racked up in the years that followed 2013. Then I pop on Man City's new documentary and in the lead up to their match against us last season, the voice over references our record 40 game unbeaten run at home under Jose. It's things like that, coupled with our points tally as a whole, league position, points vs top teams e.t.c and cup wins that make me feel that this team has massively improved since Moyes / LVG. Hell, I even think we can win any game we play these days which I really didn't feel at all until Jose arrived. It might not be pretty, but it's nice to get that feeling back.

Is that good enough? Well no, we want to be Champions. And dominant champions at that. Time and time again I say on every post, nobody disputes that the style of play is boring at the moment. Nobody disputes we have a long way to go to be what we once were. But I'm disputing this trash that Jose is outdated. Just look at the stats and you can see it's false. It doesn't need a sad git like me to point it out. We can disagree on whether two years is long enough to bring us back to that standard for a manager. We can disagree on whether Jose is the person to do it. We cannot disagree that he has improved us. The results are there for all to see. That's the only reason I waded in.

With reference to his behaviour in the press, yeah I agree. I don't like it either. I'm glad to see he's been better since the start of the season at least.

Finally, another interesting thing about the Man City documentary was Pep making such a big deal out of the Mendy signing. Stating that without the right defenders / wing backs e.t.c, they cannot attack the way they want to. And then I look at us. We're trying to be a counter attacking team it seems. People mention Fred being signed to aid the turn over from defending to attacking and speed it up. Could Jose not be looking to sign defenders for the same reason also? Watching vs Brighton, I said to my dad that as we knocked it about our 18 yard area, looking clueless, it reminded me of Liverpool as they started to try and play out from the back. It was a shit show from what I remember. Look at them now...

I'm not a tactical genius. Just a fan. So i'm sure people will point out where I'm wrong. But yeah, I only joined in to counter the ridiculous statements being thrown about. Jose is not outdated. That's absolutely ridiculous and the results are there to prove it. Over and out!

 

[Tincanalley]

I despair when the problem is so obvious and people can’t see it

The Glazer family bought a Utd team managed by one of the greatest club managers of all-time with a squad packed with some of the best players EVER to play the game

Slowly over a period of 10-15yrs that has been allowed to erode due to lack of investment. One by one the Scholes’, the Giggs’, the Keane’s, the Ronaldo’s, the Rooney’s have left the club and been replaced by a bunch of relative kids and 2nd rate players bought on the relative cheap.

I use the word “relative” twice there because there are still hundred, maybe thousands, of daft people who think its 2001 and £30m is a lot to spend on a CB, for example.

We also have daft people who will point to Pogba or Lukaku - this squad has required major investment since about 2011/12. The fact we’ve bought a couple of players for big money in that time doesn’t change the fact the squad as a whole has been woefully under-funded.

Do people honestly believe Ed Woodward wouldn’t spend the money if his bosses allowed him? His entire mandate and reason for being at the club is to make money for the Glazers and men like George Soros. Wake up people. Trophies are now the 2nd priority and have been for years

In short, we’ve pissed around buying a player here and a player there when we all know the squad has been crumbling for years. We’ve got ageing wingers at fullback. Fellaini has played 200-odd games for Manchester Utd. Juan Mata is still on the RW and most of our squad are totally the wrong age-profile to be winning major trophies

After SAF, we should have appointed a proper manager and given them a blank chequebook. Set this club up for the next ten years. If you have to buy 12 players, so be it. Ironically, had the Glazers done that, they would have actually SAVED money in the long run as they could have got the bulk of our business done before the market went crazy.

I’m saying it here and will put my neck on the line - this club will NEVER win another CL or PL until the Glazers leave my (our) club

Start a thread. Seems like you will have quite a few in agreement

 

[Tincanalley]

There's so many bullshiters in this forum that say they never doubted Fergie back in 1989. Always gives me a laugh when they say that.

Well said. I was one of those doubters.

 

[GM K]

Fire Jose, hire a new brilliant manager, invest more money into transfers but leave the current structure as it is and results will hardly change.

Fire Jose, hire a new brilliant manager, invest more money into transfers and tweak the structure I.e. recruit a DoF and allow for the football minds to control the footballing aspects of the club and United will be back on the path to the top.

Leave Jose as manager, tweak the structure, hire a DoF, invest more money into transfers and allow for the football minds to control the footballing aspects of the club and United will be back at the top sooner than expected.

The above three points show one thing: our problem is beyond the manager. We need a number of solutions.

I prefer the third option above because it will be more consistent with our identity of not firing managers too soon and allow for a bit of stability. It will also allow for Jose to reap his rewards because I actually think he has done well for the club considering the circumstances.

 

[GM K]

Problem is if we're gonna sack everyone that finished 2nd or 3rd every time we wont get far either.

There's really no guarantee if klopp or poch armed with 500m warchest can win. Sometimes shit happens over the course of a season.

If we're going to slag managers for not playing beautiful football and winning at the same time we'd be in dire situation. What if 2 years down the road pochetinno decided he wants to move to madrid?

We have to fix our fundamental first before we can change and chop managers. Madrid chelsea city had their fundamental set, they can afford to swap managers every year. We arent there yet. If we swap manager every 2 years it'll be catastrophical.

And let's not be naive thinking it couldnt be worse than jose. It could possibly become much worse. Remember how we all thought we're too big to fail that even Moyes doesnt ring an alarm bell? Or when we think we're too big not to win the league again in a few years? Or when we all though all it takes post fergie is a few barren years? It could be worse, just as it could be better.

I'd give mourinho time untill the table says otherwise. He should be sacked for finishing 6th in his first year, but to his credit he did won the euro cup. He finished 2nd last season. Objective wise he doesnt deserve the boot. Everything else is romantism.

I agree with this.
Only thing is, in my mind, this season was supposed to be his last chance to prove himself at United if he got the players he requested for. Unfortunately, the board refused to back him during a transfer window that needed significant spendings considering how good our rivals had become. So surely, it wouldn't be fair to expect miracles from him (better quality football aside). If he makes top four while getting the team to play better, even without winning anything, I'll be the first to advocate that he keeps his job at least for another season.

 

[Kemizee]

Fergie did not take over one of the richest and biggest spending clubs in the world. We can't just keep bringing up this 30 year old comparison for every shit manager we have.

Are we? How do you call yourself the biggest spending when you have gaping holes in the squad that even the opposition fans can see, when you have a RW that is as defunct as a 1800 musuem, Two 33 year wingers playing as FBs. Can you in all honesty say that the spending this summer depicts the bolded part? Even City last season and Liverpool to an extent last season and this season rectified their persistent issues. I know we pay high wages but any team that is not willing to plug obvious holes in their squad to challenge properly for the majors cannot in my eyes be the biggest spending and we are supposedly the richest. I don't think we do enough in that area.

 

[Kemizee]

I despair when the problem is so obvious and people can’t see it

The Glazer family bought a Utd team managed by one of the greatest club managers of all-time with a squad packed with some of the best players EVER to play the game

Slowly over a period of 10-15yrs that has been allowed to erode due to lack of investment. One by one the Scholes’, the Giggs’, the Keane’s, the Ronaldo’s, the Rooney’s have left the club and been replaced by a bunch of relative kids and 2nd rate players bought on the relative cheap.

I use the word “relative” twice there because there are still hundred, maybe thousands, of daft people who think its 2001 and £30m is a lot to spend on a CB, for example.

We also have daft people who will point to Pogba or Lukaku - this squad has required major investment since about 2011/12. The fact we’ve bought a couple of players for big money in that time doesn’t change the fact the squad as a whole has been woefully under-funded.

Do people honestly believe Ed Woodward wouldn’t spend the money if his bosses allowed him? His entire mandate and reason for being at the club is to make money for the Glazers and men like George Soros. Wake up people. Trophies are now the 2nd priority and have been for years

In short, we’ve pissed around buying a player here and a player there when we all know the squad has been crumbling for years. We’ve got ageing wingers at fullback. Fellaini has played 200-odd games for Manchester Utd. Juan Mata is still on the RW and most of our squad are totally the wrong age-profile to be winning major trophies

After SAF, we should have appointed a proper manager and given them a blank chequebook. Set this club up for the next ten years. If you have to buy 12 players, so be it. Ironically, had the Glazers done that, they would have actually SAVED money in the long run as they could have got the bulk of our business done before the market went crazy.

I’m saying it here and will put my neck on the line - this club will NEVER win another CL or PL until the Glazers leave my (our) club[/QUOTE]

Agree with pretty much all you said and the bolded part feels me with dread and pessimism. I was watching our 2001 season comeback against Spurs yesterday and was almost in tears.I saw was a squad packed with quality, belief and swagger and pride. This current team have neither. How we have fallen!!

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

Fergie was a relatively young manager full of hunger and will to succeed at a big club and reach his peak.
Mourinho is nearing the end of his career and he came here after winning everything there was to win, after managing the biggest club in the world for 3 years and after the worst season in his career.

Not to mention where the club and world football in general is compared with where it was in 1989.
Both situations are not comparable at all.

 

[ErranMorad]

Are we? How do you call yourself the biggest spending when you have gaping holes in the squad that even the opposition fans can see, when you have a RW that is as defunct as a 1800 musuem, Two 33 year wingers playing as FBs. Can you in all honesty say that the spending this summer depicts the bolded part? Even City last season and Liverpool to an extent last season and this season rectified their persistent issues. I know we pay high wages but any team that is not willing to plug obvious holes in their squad to challenge properly for the majors cannot in my eyes be the biggest spending and we are supposedly the richest. I don't think we do enough in that area.

Yes, we are one of the biggest spenders. Since Sir Alex left our gross spend on players is only next to City and Barcelona; while our net spend is only second to City.

Refer to the post below for the numbers:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/transfers-a-comparison.440664/#post-22914508

 

[fellaini's barber]

Are we? How do you call yourself the biggest spending when you have gaping holes in the squad that even the opposition fans can see, when you have a RW that is as defunct as a 1800 musuem, Two 33 year wingers playing as FBs. Can you in all honesty say that the spending this summer depicts the bolded part? Even City last season and Liverpool to an extent last season and this season rectified their persistent issues. I know we pay high wages but any team that is not willing to plug obvious holes in their squad to challenge properly for the majors cannot in my eyes be the biggest spending and we are supposedly the richest. I don't think we do enough in that area.

How many other clubs can buy one player for $80+ million, how many clubs can give Jose the salary he is on? How many clubs have spent as much as Jose in his tenure here?

 

[Sky1981]

Glazer hasn't made any significant withdrawal btw.

Just normal petty dividend.

They own the club. Every penny and every dime every inches of the club belongs to them. They dont have to leech anything. It's their's.

Do you honestly thinks plc is some form of fans owned? We were never fans owned.

You want glazer out an an arab prince taking over? Fans owned? Remind me again who the glazer bought united from?

 

[Kemizee]

How many other clubs can buy one player for $80+ million, how many clubs can give Jose the salary he is on? How many clubs have spent as much as Jose in his tenure here?

Lemme reiterate again that I am not saying that we have not spent good money over the last couple of years. The point I am making is that we have to as a club decide what our ambition and target is. Are we content with playing 2nd fiddle or finishing 3rd every season? If that is the case, then fair enough but the supposedly biggest club in the world should have a squad befitting of its status and should be in the running for the league and the Champs league every year? Can you say without a doubt that this squad has that capability?

Ed Woodward did make an asinine and outlandish comment that we can do things in the transfer market what other teams can only dream of...What is that thing exactly? Lukaku was bought for 75m, Liverpool just spent that on VVD, a defender for that matter and how long did our world record for Pogba stand?

Look at Barca for instance, they keep winning trophies but don't stand still in the market. They brought in Dembele and Coutinho for astronomical fees. You know why? Because their priority as a club is winning and not commercial boastfulness. Yes I know they were very expensive but that is what the market has become today. You either comply with the status quo or you end up becoming a transfer moral police dog while other teams rack up the trophies.

The bar has been set high domestically by City( bought Bravo,Stones, Danilo, Bernardo Silva and Gundogan and upgraded with Laporte, Ederson, Mahrez as well as Mendy and Walker.

Am I saying we can afford to do same? No Am I saying we need Arab owners? Not at all.

What I am saying is that for the supposed biggest spending club in the world to add Fred only to their first team and conveniently ignore the defunct positions in the team tells me two things; either the owners are not interested in winning trophies or the money is not available as they boast it is.

We needed to at least bridge the gap with City and even if we did not, we should have at least done better than just Fred and Dalot but we have not at all. We are still miles away from them and winning the league. Smh

 

[fellaini's barber]

Lemme reiterate again that I am not saying that we have not spent good money over the last couple of years. The point I am making is that we have to as a club decide what our ambition and target is. Are we content with playing 2nd fiddle or finishing 3rd every season? If that is the case, then fair enough but the supposedly biggest club in the world should have a squad befitting of its status and should be in the running for the league and the Champs league every year? Can you say without a doubt that this squad has that capability?

Ed Woodward did make an asinine and outlandish comment that we can do things in the transfer market what other teams can only dream of...What is that thing exactly? Lukaku was bought for 75m, Liverpool just spent that on VVD, a defender for that matter and how long did our world record for Pogba stand?

Look at Barca for instance, they keep winning trophies but don't stand still in the market. They brought in Dembele and Coutinho for astronomical fees. You know why? Because their priority as a club is winning and not commercial boastfulness. Yes I know they were very expensive but that is what the market has become today. You either comply with the status quo or you end up becoming a transfer moral police dog while other teams rack up the trophies.

The bar has been set high domestically by City( bought Bravo,Stones, Danilo, Bernardo Silva and Gundogan and upgraded with Laporte, Ederson, Mahrez as well as Mendy and Walker.

Am I saying we can afford to do same? No Am I saying we need Arab owners? Not at all.

What I am saying is that for the supposed biggest spending club in the world to add Fred only to their first team and conveniently ignore the defunct positions in the team tells me two things; either the owners are not interested in winning trophies or the money is not available as they boast it is.

We needed to at least bridge the gap with City and even if we did not, we should have at least done better than just Fred and Dalot but we have not at all. We are still miles away from them and winning the league. Smh

Dude, Jose don't need to spend $1bn dollars to play better football than or beat teams like Brighton or Sevilla. Doesn't matter if you think we've under invested in the club or not but what are the results for what we've spent so far? Look at Liverpool, Klopp hasn't won shit as of yet, inherited a pathetic defense but even at that point, the fans saw progress and a plan in the football. Over the last two summers they've spent well and sorted their defense and keeper situation while still improving their football. I don't know what you guys see in the football Jose has served up so far for you guys to want more of it. With the money we've spent and the players we have and the time Jose has spent Jose really, really should be doing better, there's no excuse for this really.

 

[Red_Ramirez]

Fergie was a relatively young manager full of hunger and will to succeed at a big club and reach his peak.
Mourinho is nearing the end of his career and he came here after winning everything there was to win, after managing the biggest club in the world for 3 years and after the worst season in his career.

Not to mention where the club and world football in general is compared with where it was in 1989.
Both situations are not comparable at all.

Is it?

 

[MoskvaRed]

Is it?

I don’t know if Mourinho's career is nearing its end (I suspect it is at the very top level) but it’s a fair point - Fergie moving from Aberdeen to United was comparable to Mourinho going from Porto to Chelsea - a shot at the big time for soneone on an upwards trajectory. Whereas we got someone who’s been on the big stage for 12 years already and, at least in terms of big trophies, seems to have declined since 2010.

 

[Kemizee]

Dude, Jose don't need to spend $1bn dollars to play better football than or beat teams like Brighton or Sevilla. Doesn't matter if you think we've under invested in the club or not but what are the results for what we've spent so far? Look at Liverpool, Klopp hasn't won shit as of yet, inherited a pathetic defense but even at that point, the fans saw progress and a plan in the football. Over the last two summers they've spent well and sorted their defense and keeper situation while still improving their football. I don't know what you guys see in the football Jose has served up so far for you guys to want more of it. With the money we've spent and the players we have and the time Jose has spent Jose really, really should be doing better, there's no excuse for this really.

While I understand your argument about the aesthetic part of our football, I don't personally se it as a big deal. I am first and foremost a sucker for trophies and not style of play. Towards the end of SAF reign, we did not play scintillating football all the time and it was not an issue beacuse we kept racking up the titles.
Besides, losing to Brighton is not the end of the world, SAF lost to Burnley at Turf Moor in his 2nd league game in 2009 and we still won the league. Jose coluld lose to Brighton for all I care as long as we win the league which is still the point am making, that regardless of that, we are still not equipped enough to win the league. Stop using that one match as indicator of our actual strength or otherwise.

Klopp could play all the metal football shit he likes, the fact remains that Jose has won more than him in the last 2 years. We finished 2nd last year and it was apparent to all the areas we needed to fix to challenge City properly. We have failed to address them.

Jose needs more support from the board to win the league just like Pep needed more to do same after his first season which begs the question as to why we are content with 2nd or 3rd place instead of pushing the boat.

Or maybe you feel Jose underachieved last year finishing 2nd and your beloved Klopp would have won the league instead...

 

[antohan]

You should atleast see anything that's resembling a game plan. All we see is trying to defend as soon as we somehow scrape out a goal. And absolutely no clue whatsoever if we go behind. He sees to be out of touch with the modern game, and unable to motivate/get the best out of the players we have. And other managers around him are doing just that. Even look at game yesterday that was the difference between a well team with a system, and a group of players without anything even resembling a system.

Even when we win, we do no took any bit convincing.

This gets thrown around way too much. The guy won the league only three seasons ago and Leicester was a fluke season but hardly modern.

It's complete bollocks.

The motivation part is clearly an issue, but then, it seems to have been for a while not just with him. There's issues at all levels and changing managers is no more than finding a scapegoat while the problems are unresolved.

 

[Rood]

The situation today vs 1989 is so completely different on so many levels that the comparison is pretty pointless

But if social media was around back then we probably would have some bunch of dicks paying for a 'Fergie Out' plane by now

 

[redmanx]

Just because Ferguson was sucessful all those years ago despite having a poor start doesn't mean we should continue to support all the managers who've followed him despite the performances. Ferguson was an exception, an anomaly not the norm and giving managers who are struggling usually results in things going tits up at most clubs. Why are we rehashing all the arguments we already had when Moyes was around?

Also, Fergie took over at a time when our only success since winning the 68 European Cup had been in the FA Cup, 77, 83 & 85; the team was struggling as Liverpool dominated and we were thankful for a top 10 finish. Fergie had to radically change the clubs entire culture and didn't care who he upset, even Bryan Robson, the jewel in Uniteds crown, came under pressure to reform, others couldn't and were soon shown the door. Fergie had the backing of the board to make what ever changes he deemed necessary, and the rest is history. Mourinho inherited a much better squad than Fergie though moral was low after Moyes and LVG, and he had real money to spend, something Fergie didn't have until 2003 when the Glazers took over. Could the Mourinho of Porto and Chelsea (first time) have achieved the success of Fergie? I doubt it. Will Mourinho come good this season? To be honest, I don't think he will; Ive supported him since the day he arrived but the Mourinho of today is far from being the Mourinho who even managed to put SAF to the sword on several occasions. I think, barring a miracle, Jose will be gone by xmas, either sacked or by his own hand. Zinedan Zidane is fast becoming the #1 choice to take over from Jose and hopefully the gloom and despair surrounding Old Trafford will be quickly lifted and football will become enjoyable and magic once more.

 

[Dante]

Attacking football is old fashioned. Modern football is Italian style dogged defending.

 

[Schneckerl]

We’re talking about a world in which we broke the British transfer record by buying Keane for like £3m. Yes, Cantona was a bargain relative to his ability, much cheaper than he should’ve been cos Leeds wanted him out. But, as I recall, fees above £1m were seen as big fees back in the early 90s.

I don't know about that. Cantona was the 10th most expensive transfer that season and player with a similar fees are mostly pretty average.


https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/pre...lerposition_id=alle&altersklasse=&w_s=&zuab=0

It's probably similar to Real getting Courtois (also the 10th most expensive) this season for thirty-something million with both cases having circumstances which greatly reduced the players fee compared to his actual market value.