In 1994 there was a banner at Anfield...

PTME

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...saying "come back and sing Ooohh Ahh Cantona when you've won 18".

Well...

We'll be there next season to sing it for you.

PTME
 

The Wizard

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...saying "come back and sing Ooohh Ahh Cantona when you've won 18".

Well...

We'll be there next season to sing it for you.

PTME
Arogant fecks, this sums them up in a nutshell. They have been like this for as long as I remember, which is as far back as the late 70's.

I have always maintained that any club which confuses winning trophies to actual 'history' is always leaving themselves wide open to disaster. Trophy counts and records can be equaled or overtaken, as we MAY see happen now, but history can't be.

I was always so proud that United had the much richer history on a world scale, and that we were the more famous and glamourous club.

I must admit that never in my wildest dreams could I have imagined the 'possibility' of us equalling that 18 league record.

That is down to one man. There is no argument or any doubt, Sir Alex Ferguson is the greatest manager in the history of world football. I'll be proud to tell my grandchildren I see that United teams he's managed, from the beginning.

:devil:
 

PTME

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Arogant fecks, this sums them up in a nutshell. They have been like this for as long as I remember, which is as far back as the late 70's.

I have always maintained that any club which confuses winning trophies to actual 'history' is always leaving themselves wide open to disaster. Trophy counts and records can be equaled or overtaken, as we MAY see happen now, but history can't be.

I was always so proud that United had the much richer history on a world scale, and that we were the more famous and glamourous club.

I must admit that never in my wildest dreams could I have imagined the 'possibility' of us equalling that 18 league record.

That is down to one man. There is no argument or any doubt, Sir Alex Ferguson is the greatest manager in the history of world football. I'll be proud to tell my grandchildren I see that United teams he's managed, from the beginning.

:devil:
My sentiments exactly.
 

Number7

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Just look at their song for Chelsea:

feck off Chelsea fc
You aint got no history
5 european cups 18 leagues
now that's what we call history

Ridiculous
 

PeteReDevil

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This got my heart racing through. Are we actually winning our 18th? :houllier::eek:

Over the years I'd thought that liverpool would've won at least once again before we did so
 

MG

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Only a club that's not winning much in the present talks about their history.

I'm not saying football isn't about the past, cos it is, it's great to look back at goals, games, players, teams, managers and trophies won from the past, but, ultimately, the truly successful team is the one that is focused on the team here and now and what we're winning at the moment.

I'd much rather be living through history, and creating it, than wallowing in past glories to try and claim our superiority. United were a much better team than Liverpool in 1994, and still are now, and the fact the Scousers had to bring up their history to try and get at us shows they knew this.

Well, now we're close to equalling these coveted '18 titles' that they've been going on and on about, does it mean we're finally going to knock them off their perch? I'd argue it doesn't because we knocked them off their perch a long time ago when we got so much better than them and confined them to the title wilderness (they've got better in recent years, but still not good enough).

I've been lucky enough to have only lived through United's dominance, and never through Liverpool's, and I bet a lot of the younger Liverpool fans have either never seen them win the league or don't remember it. If I was a Liverpool fan, that'd make that history seem pretty hollow for me. And if I was an older fan, that history would only make me feel a bit depressed seeing how far short we fall of it now.

Maybe when we reach 18 titles, or even 19, Liverpool fans will finally stop living in the past. We'll have done them a favour if that's the case.
 

Woodzy

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Agreed. It was only so long before their beloved history was no longer a fallback option for their near 20 years of minimal success. Well look out Scousers, because there's a very good chance you could be looking at 18 - 4 in a months time.
 

Scholesgoals

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Only a club that's not winning much in the present talks about their history.

I'm not saying football isn't about the past, cos it is, it's great to look back at goals, games, players, teams, managers and trophies won from the past, but, ultimately, the truly successful team is the one that is focused on the team here and now and what we're winning at the moment.

I'd much rather be living through history, and creating it, than wallowing in past glories to try and claim our superiority. United were a much better team than Liverpool in 1994, and still are now, and the fact the Scousers had to bring up their history to try and get at us shows they knew this.

Well, now we're close to equalling these coveted '18 titles' that they've been going on and on about, does it mean we're finally going to knock them off their perch? I'd argue it doesn't because we knocked them off their perch a long time ago when we got so much better than them and confined them to the title wilderness (they've got better in recent years, but still not good enough).

I've been lucky enough to have only lived through United's dominance, and never through Liverpool's, and I bet a lot of the younger Liverpool fans have either never seen them win the league or don't remember it. If I was a Liverpool fan, that'd make that history seem pretty hollow for me. And if I was an older fan, that history would only make me feel a bit depressed seeing how far short we fall of it now.

Maybe when we reach 18 titles, or even 19, Liverpool fans will finally stop living in the past. We'll have done them a favour if that's the case.
good post.

good posts abound on the caf this morning. Maybe wigan has given us a moment of clarity....
 

reelworld

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Only a club that's not winning much in the present talks about their history.

I'm not saying football isn't about the past, cos it is, it's great to look back at goals, games, players, teams, managers and trophies won from the past, but, ultimately, the truly successful team is the one that is focused on the team here and now and what we're winning at the moment.

I'd much rather be living through history, and creating it, than wallowing in past glories to try and claim our superiority. United were a much better team than Liverpool in 1994, and still are now, and the fact the Scousers had to bring up their history to try and get at us shows they knew this.

Well, now we're close to equalling these coveted '18 titles' that they've been going on and on about, does it mean we're finally going to knock them off their perch? I'd argue it doesn't because we knocked them off their perch a long time ago when we got so much better than them and confined them to the title wilderness (they've got better in recent years, but still not good enough).

I've been lucky enough to have only lived through United's dominance, and never through Liverpool's, and I bet a lot of the younger Liverpool fans have either never seen them win the league or don't remember it. If I was a Liverpool fan, that'd make that history seem pretty hollow for me. And if I was an older fan, that history would only make me feel a bit depressed seeing how far short we fall of it now.

Maybe when we reach 18 titles, or even 19, Liverpool fans will finally stop living in the past. We'll have done them a favour if that's the case.
Fat chance that would happen!
 

Anderson Searl

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Anytime you base your chants or defence of your club with silverware and your success, you know you've hit an all-time low.

feck them all, except the decent ones; Most of which aren't even Scouse.
 

MG

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Exactly.

It's like going;

United fan: "We're a much better team that you, we're gonna win the double this year!"

Scouse fan: "Yeah, but we won the league a lot in the 80s!"

Irrelevant, and pretty much admitting that you are indeed an inferior team. Which is depressing.
 

Red Hand Devil

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Only a club that's not winning much in the present talks about their history.

I'm not saying football isn't about the past, cos it is, it's great to look back at goals, games, players, teams, managers and trophies won from the past, but, ultimately, the truly successful team is the one that is focused on the team here and now and what we're winning at the moment.

I'd much rather be living through history, and creating it, than wallowing in past glories to try and claim our superiority. United were a much better team than Liverpool in 1994, and still are now, and the fact the Scousers had to bring up their history to try and get at us shows they knew this.

Well, now we're close to equalling these coveted '18 titles' that they've been going on and on about, does it mean we're finally going to knock them off their perch? I'd argue it doesn't because we knocked them off their perch a long time ago when we got so much better than them and confined them to the title wilderness (they've got better in recent years, but still not good enough).

I've been lucky enough to have only lived through United's dominance, and never through Liverpool's, and I bet a lot of the younger Liverpool fans have either never seen them win the league or don't remember it. If I was a Liverpool fan, that'd make that history seem pretty hollow for me. And if I was an older fan, that history would only make me feel a bit depressed seeing how far short we fall of it now.

Maybe when we reach 18 titles, or even 19, Liverpool fans will finally stop living in the past. We'll have done them a favour if that's the case.
Brilliant post Mrs Giggs & my sentiments exactly :cool:

I was born in 75, so i remember vividly & then clearly as i got older - how fecking arrogant Liverpool were regarding success. It wasnt just the fans either - it was the club aswell. They really had no class - neither club nor the fans. I grew up in school classes with many Pool fans & they only supported the because they were winning & effectively bandwagoning!

From my first day at school i carried a United bag - I still dont know how I came to support them - I feel that United found me & adopted me like a son!

If we get atleast the point we need on Saturday - it'll be one of the proudest days of my life as matching Liverpools haul of titles seemed like an eternity away back in the day.

That day is now on the horizon & if we win - I will proudly shed a tear & reflect on my life & how Manchester United got me through some difficult times but at the same time gave me strength to overcome these :devil:

:devil: Manchester United :devil: The Religion :devil: The Family :devil: Dignity, Pride & Class :devil:
 

Bread

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Was quite funny last night, my mate started saying that i'd never say Liverpool were anywhere near the quality of us and i said well they can play as well they just havent won anything. to which he replied theyve won 5 european cups and 18 leagues, if you can harp on about the 90's squad then they can count that.

what he failed to realise was that i meant the current liverpool squad has won basically nothing and all of our squad bar about 3 players have won at least 2 leagues and a champions league, plus there are several connections and links to the past succesful teams.

really annoys me how liverpool have not one connection still involved with the club who was there in thier good ol' days but everyone still goes on about them winning all these trophies when it was basically a different club who won them all, it's like chelsea using us as an example of thier succes cos there is as many links there!
 

MG

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Was quite funny last night, my mate started saying that i'd never say Liverpool were anywhere near the quality of us and i said well they can play as well they just havent won anything. to which he replied theyve won 5 european cups and 18 leagues, if you can harp on about the 90's squad then they can count that.

what he failed to realise was that i meant the current liverpool squad has won basically nothing and all of our squad bar about 3 players have won at least 2 leagues and a champions league, plus there are several connections and links to the past succesful teams.

really annoys me how liverpool have not one connection still involved with the club who was there in thier good ol' days but everyone still goes on about them winning all these trophies when it was basically a different club who won them all, it's like chelsea using us as an example of thier succes cos there is as many links there!
Exactly. :)

Some of Liverpool's players have won the CL with them, fair enough, but none of them have won the PL. Not even once. None of their players have seen anything of those precious '18 titles' Liverpool have won. It's absolutely nothing to do with the current team, or the team before them under Houllier, or the teams before them in the 90s. It goes way, way back.

Our current team are about to win the league for the 3rd time in a row, most of them have been a part of that. Some have won even more. Also, most of them have won the CL with us, and could be about to win another one. If they do, most of them have therefore been a part of the 2 out of the 4 we've won.

Ryan Giggs and Paul Scholes, still integral parts of our team, have won the league 10 and 8 times. Our current team still has a link to the teams of the 90s through them, Gary Neville and Wes Brown (when he plays! He's won it 5 times, and could have won it 7 times, assuming we win the league this year, if not for injury!)

Giggsy, one of our best players this season, is 1 point away from his 11th title. That's 11 out of 18 he's been a part of.
 

The Wizard

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Just look at their song for Chelsea:

feck off Chelsea fc
You aint got no history
5 european cups 18 leagues
now that's what we call history

Ridiculous
This is Liverpool in a nutshell, and it's why I have never envied them.

That's like reading an accountants ledger, just facts and figures, won 18 league's and 5 EC's. For me that's just cold hard facts, and it rings a little bit hollow, it’s only memorable to LFC fans really and not the world at large. It's not 'history' in the deeper sense, it's not the stuff of legend and myth, which United are entwined with it’s in our very fabric, and has made us the worlds most famous club. They certainly have no stadium rebuild after the war, Munich where the entire world mourned out loss, 1st English EC winners 10 years after, and 1st treble winners etc.

These things are things that make ‘a history’.
 

jdmufc

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to be fair, we still talk about our past glories, and during the 70´s and 80´s thats all we had to talk about!!, saying liverpool have no history is a bit idiotic, they have a massive history and can be rightly proud of their past.
They´ve also given us a good run for our money this season
 

MG

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Havent yet won the league...:nervous:
I know! That's why I keep saying 'if we win'!!! :nervous:

to be fair, we still talk about our past glories, and during the 70´s and 80´s thats all we had to talk about!!, saying liverpool have no history is a bit idiotic, they have a massive history and can be rightly proud of their past.
They´ve also given us a good run for our money this season
I know it's good to talk about past glories, it's great to remember great teams of the past - I still like to watch DVDs of our Treble side, and it's nice think about the teams of the 90s and stuff (and 50s and 60s, for the older fans;)) - all I was saying was that if you use past trophies in an argument as a comeback to 'We're a much better team than you' it looks a little pathetic; like accepting that you are indeed an inferior team. The fact that you used to be the best doesn't hold much weight now.

Be proud of your history and remember it, but don't drag it up when another team is clearly better than you because it just looks like a hollow argument.

And, yes, Liverpool have played well against us this season, but they're still 6 points behind, got knocked out of the FA Cup and Champions League earlier than us and we're still likely to win the League. They've gotten better, but they're still not quite as good as us.
 

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I couldn't see any team beating you to the league this season. The two things that have surprised me are: you being in the CL final again and us being your closest contenders in the league. Was expecting neither of those to be honest.

Next season you will buy the right players (by selling Ronaldo probably) and be as strong as this season. Anyone else challenging you in the league (Chelsea or us, probably not Arsenal) will still only be second best.

Anyone done our new boom bust cylce yet?
 

Dumbstar

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Long enough to be knocked off your perch. :smirk:
You'll probably be on 18-4 this summer, so won't be long before we're properly off that perch. However, Fergie will be nearing 70 then. That is reaaally old.
 

The Wizard

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I couldn't see any team beating you to the league this season. The two things that have surprised me are: you being in the CL final again and us being your closest contenders in the league. Was expecting neither of those to be honest.

Next season you will buy the right players (by selling Ronaldo probably) and be as strong as this season. Anyone else challenging you in the league (Chelsea or us, probably not Arsenal) will still only be second best.

Anyone done our new boom bust cylce yet?
You are one of the better Liverpool posters on this board. Wish there was more like you.
 

MG

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We won't suddenly stop winning the league just because Fergie's retired. We're too big for that these days.

Oh, and I'd argue Fergie knocked them off their perch a long time ago when he resigned them to the title wilderness.
 

MUFCgal

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I know! That's why I keep saying 'if we win'!!! :nervous:



I know it's good to talk about past glories, it's great to remember great teams of the past - I still like to watch DVDs of our Treble side, and it's nice think about the teams of the 90s and stuff (and 50s and 60s, for the older fans;)) - all I was saying was that if you use past trophies in an argument as a comeback to 'We're a much better team than you' it looks a little pathetic; like accepting that you are indeed an inferior team. The fact that you used to be the best doesn't hold much weight now.

Be proud of your history and remember it, but don't drag it up when another team is clearly better than you because it just looks like a hollow argument.

And, yes, Liverpool have played well against us this season, but they're still 6 points behind, got knocked out of the FA Cup and Champions League earlier than us and we're still likely to win the League. They've gotten better, but they're still not quite as good as us.
Good MrsGiggs. I was once having a conversation with a Pool fan who I was friends with and we were obviously talking about football. I was mentioning about our great love affair in the FA Cup, being the most successful with 11 cups and he inevitably said 'but you don't have 18 titles and 5 European Cups, do you?'. Yes he was having a bit of banter, but it just seems that us Man Utd fans can't say anything about our own history without some arrogant Pool fan butting and saying about their precious '18-5', it's like they're constantly putting you down. Can't wait until Saturday if we get the required result we need, I'll be celebrating like feck all day long and the Pool fans in the street will hear me loud and clear the whole day long :devil:
 

jdmufc

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We won't suddenly stop winning the league just because Fergie's retired. We're too big for that these days.

Oh, and I'd argue Fergie knocked them off their perch a long time ago when he resigned them to the title wilderness.

thats not completely true, a new manager has a massive job to continue winning the way fergie has, we may go a few years without a trophy but as long as we are still up there fighting for those trophies i´ll be happy.
 

MG

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Notice the 18-5 thing gets more and more hysterical from the Scousers as we close in on it.

Maybe if we reach it, or perhaps even suppass it, the Scousers will finally put more effort into trying to make it 19-6.
 

The Wizard

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We won't suddenly stop winning the league just because Fergie's retired. We're too big for that these days.
Hehe... Sounds like what most LFC fans said when King Kenny stormed off at the beginning of the 90's, a bit presumptuous. I wouldn't be so sure at all.

Take nothing for granted, and enjoy the moments we have now with Fergie, 'cause you never know what is around the corner, with the Glazers having us £700M in debt, world recession, and the most obvious of all; that there isn't another manager on earth even half as good as Sir Alex.

Don't mind all this 'next year' jazz from opposition fans... what they are all truly waiting for is Sir Alex to retire. I think by that act alone it would be a massive physiological boost to Chelsea, LFC, Arse and obviously the opposite for us.
 

green demon

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Good MrsGiggs. I was once having a conversation with a Pool fan who I was friends with and we were obviously talking about football. I was mentioning about our great love affair in the FA Cup, being the most successful with 11 cups and he inevitably said 'but you don't have 18 titles and 5 European Cups, do you?'. Yes he was having a bit of banter, but it just seems that us Man Utd fans can't say anything about our own history without some arrogant Pool fan butting and saying about their precious '18-5', it's like they're constantly putting you down. Can't wait until Saturday if we get the required result we need, I'll be celebrating like feck all day long and the Pool fans in the street will hear me loud and clear the whole day long :devil:
And enjoy it! Oh yes, enjoy it. But remember you must have some celebration left for if we win the CL.
 

MG

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Hehe... Sounds like what most LFC fans said when King Kenny stormed off at the beginning of the 90's, a bit presumptuous. I wouldn't be so sure at all.

Take nothing for granted, and enjoy the moments we have now with Fergie, 'cause you never know what is around the corner, with the Glazers having us £700M in debt, world recession, and the most obvious of all; that there isn't another manager on earth even half as good as Sir Alex.

Don't mind all this 'next year' jazz from opposition fans... what they are all truly waiting for is Sir Alex to retire. I think by that act alone it would be a massive physiological boost to Chelsea, LFC, Arse and obviously the opposite for us.
I see your points, and to be honest the Glazer debt has me more worried than anything else. Fergie's clearly the best manager in the world, and losing him will obviously be an enormous disadvantage to us, but I just don't buy into how we're going to suddenly go rubbish as soon as he retires.

Maybe we won't be as good because we haven't got as good leadership, but we'll still ultimately have the same team, and most of the same players, at least for a little while. And that team aren't just suddenly going to play rubbishly.

Maybe Liverpool were already declining when Daglish quit? But Fergie will leave when the team is still at their top, and still winning, and so they'll be good enough to continue to do so.
 

green demon

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Hehe... Sounds like what most LFC fans said when King Kenny stormed off at the beginning of the 90's, a bit presumptuous. I wouldn't be so sure at all.

Take nothing for granted, and enjoy the moments we have now with Fergie, 'cause you never know what is around the corner, with the Glazers having us £700M in debt, world recession, and the most obvious of all; that there isn't another manager on earth even half as good as Sir Alex.

Don't mind all this 'next year' jazz from opposition fans... what they are all truly waiting for is Sir Alex to retire. I think by that act alone it would be a massive physiological boost to Chelsea, LFC, Arse and obviously the opposite for us.
It wouldn't surprise me if he went this summer. I think he realised when he planned to retire before, that the most unsettling thing is to announce it in advance. We went down the pan that season.

Especially if we beat Barcelona, I would expect a surprise press conference called early this summer, at OT, where the awful news would be announced. :eek:
 

The Wizard

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I see your points, and to be honest the Glazer debt has me more worried than anything else. Fergie's clearly the best manager in the world, and losing him will obviously be an enormous disadvantage to us, but I just don't buy into how we're going to suddenly go rubbish as soon as he retires.

Maybe we won't be as good because we haven't got as good leadership, but we'll still ultimately have the same team, and most of the same players, at least for a little while. And that team aren't just suddenly going to play rubbishly.

Maybe Liverpool were already declining when Daglish quit? But Fergie will leave when the team is still at their top, and still winning, and so they'll be good enough to continue to do so.
It's not that we'd suddenly become rubbish when Sir Alex quits. It would only take a very slight dip to weaken us, as you see there is so little in the difference of winning and coming 2nd or 3rd, that naturally has a knock-on effect.

As Shanks once said "First is first, 2nd is nowhere" ;)
 

The Wizard

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It wouldn't surprise me if he went this summer. I think he realised when he planned to retire before, that the most unsettling thing is to announce it in advance. We went down the pan that season.

Especially if we beat Barcelona, I would expect a surprise press conference called early this summer, at OT, where the awful news would be announced. :eek:
No chance at all. Everything he is doing at the moment points to him being here next season minimun and probaby the term after too. From signing youngsters, to body-language to organising next years friendlies etc.
 

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...saying "come back and sing Ooohh Ahh Cantona when you've won 18".

Well...

We'll be there next season to sing it for you.

PTME
I don't remember that!

Superb. Does anyone have any pictures or videos of it? I imagine at the time, as much as we thought it was a crap banner to have, it was slightly intimidating given they had won a lot more league titles.

15 years on... Oh dear.