"In midfield - we lack creativity. So crossing is the only way."

[Galactic]

Why I never undersand is that if the crosses never clear the first defender, why don't our strikers attack there?

 

[Gladiator]

So nobody on here, and not Moyes and you're choosing to protect their identity, but it's someone whose opinion matters so much that you've quoted them and started a thread on the back of it?

Who is it? Come on, you can tell us.

nice phraseology there but who they are most likely doesnt mean a thing to anyone on here so why put their identity up here?

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

We don't have any 'strikers'. With RvP out and Rooney/Wellbeck spending most of their time deeper, we lack any out right point man to lead the line. Even in time when Hernandez was playing he had absolutely no service so as to be narly invisible for major parts of the game. No midfielders leading to no proper strikers = wingplay.

 

[Remix]

So nobody on here, and not Moyes and you're choosing to protect their identity, but it's someone whose opinion matters so much that you've quoted them and started a thread on the back of it?

Who is it? Come on, you can tell us.

The quote is from twitter.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Gladiator]

Midfielder's use central areas primarily. Then we have wide players like Januzaj, Nani & to an extent Young who cut in to provide threat from the middle. Now we only have Januzaj. With Nani never getting a run and Young injured, we only have Januzaj and it is unrealistic to see him play every game. So unless Moyes changes the whole setup, it will be more wingplay and crosses, imho! Without creative support from players like Nani & Januzaj, I think even Kagawa alone in the middle would amount to much.

yeah and dont forget about the strikers! Good point about adnan but I'm not asking Moyes to change the whole setup. We dont need to go strictly narrow. Wingplay should remain an element of our game. I'm saying we could even use our width to create spaces elsewhere but we dont even try to do that. Using the wide areas doesn automatically your only strategy is crossing but that's what we've seemed to settle on.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

For threat from middle, we need someone who can thread a pass into a crowded area. Forget it!

 

[Gladiator]

yeah either that or someone who can pull the opposition out of position in those areas

 

[Backrow Singer]

We don't have any 'strikers'. With RvP out and Rooney/Wellbeck spending most of their time deeper, we lack any out right point man to lead the line. Even in time when Hernandez was playing he had absolutely no service so as to be narly invisible for major parts of the game. No midfielders leading to no proper strikers = wingplay.

I'd go with that. The issue is the midfield really. Cleverley shouldn't have been playing as far forward as he was, and Rooney shouldn't have needed to play as deep as he was/is. 4-3-2-1 is all about shape really, and we were desperately lacking in that area on Wednesday looking back. Problem is, as I say, with Rooney being asked to play so deep (partly due to Cleverley playing so far forward), we didn't really have anyone off Welbeck. Hence why we used the wide men so often.

 

[Gladiator]

I'd go with that. The issue is the midfield really. Cleverley shouldn't have been playing as far forward as he was, and Rooney shouldn't have needed to play as deep as he was/is. 4-3-2-1 is all about shape really, and we were desperately lacking in that area on Wednesday looking back. Problem is, as I say, with Rooney being asked to play so deep (partly due to Cleverley playing so far forward), we didn't really have anyone off Welbeck. Hence why we used the wide men so often.

The issue is also the wide men. Valencia is not producing. As awesome as Rooney has been, he's not the sort of player that can will drive the ball forward in that sort of position. He can do it just like he can play some penetrative passes through the middle but this part of his game is not as consistent and currently we arent really using it due to issues both you and Absolute Fruit Cake have stated.

I think midfield is the easy scapegoat even though there are lot of issues there. But Moyes should be instructing the likes of Cleverley to be more disciplined.

 

[The Neviller]

nice phraseology there but who they are most likely doesnt mean a thing to anyone on here so why put their identity up here?

Which is my point. Why is something some no-mark on twatter said a point of discussion?

 

[Chesterlestreet]

So, the quote stems from some bloke who can't spell Che Guevara. Why not just ask the question: Do we have to bloody cross all the time because our midfield is shite? Or is it possible to cross less even with a shite midfield? Nevermind. The question is obviously valid. The thread title is as shite as our midfield, though.

 

[Gladiator]

So, the quote stems from some bloke who can't spell Che Guevara. Why not just ask the question: Do we have to bloody cross all the time because our midfield is shite? Or is it possible to cross less even with a shite midfield? Nevermind. The question is obviously valid. The thread title is as shite as our midfield, though.

Yeah haha i know it's shite. I guess I also expected people to read the OP and not just focus on the thread title alone. But I realize why anonymously quoting someone can be offputting

Which is my point. Why is something some no-mark on twatter said a point of discussion?

Yeah I see your point. I already acknowledge the thread title was poor. At the time I felt like it was something worth to discuss (is crossing the only way to attack because of our "shite" midfield?). It wasn necessary to quote him. I recognize that.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Even when we had Paul Scholes in the team we looked to provide ammunition to our wingers before anyone else.

 

[manutddjw]

Even when we had Paul Scholes in the team we looked to provide ammunition to our wingers before anyone else.

This is a good point, but I think it shows the real issue is with the wingers we do currently have rather than the tactics themselves. Up until last season, we usually had the benefit of consistent wing play from the likes of Beckham, Ronaldo and for a periods of time with Valencia and Nani. We just don't have that anymore as it is anyones guess which winger, if any, will show up on the day. If we wish to continue with placing importance on wingers, than we need ones who are much better than what we currently have and if we don't bring better ones in, then we need to switch tactics to best utilize what we do have.

 

[Ash_G]

No one really seems to mention it but what about Rooney? It always seems that flack of us having to play through the wingers is on the cm's and undoubtedly some of it is, but what about the guy who's typically in the key creative role? Rooney has played very well and his stats speak for themselves but he plays a significant role in our wing play imo. How often does he create through the middle? We have players who could make a diagonal run inside like Januzaj, Nani, Kagawa, Welbeck when they start wide, but we rarely see that ever played. I'm sure some of it is tactical but I think some of it is because that's not Rooney's style. He doesn't often play those sorts of passes. He's got a quality switch to the flanks, but I wouldn't say he's as good in that other sort of pass and you need that for your wingers to cut in.

That's a fair bit of the problem for me. Our main creator prefers using a switch out wide and then getting in the box, and we only really have two wingers Januzaj and Nani who have the skill to be able to start wide and dribble their way inside, and Januzaj is still raw and Nani is constantly taken in and out.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Part of the problem - and it was evident under Fergie too - is that we seem to cross mechanically too often, as though we had a target man in the box (which we don't and haven't had for as long as I can remember). The amount of entirely pointless crosses is too high. Valencia is the main culprit here. He whacks it in no matter what - sometimes there is purpose to his whacking, sometimes there is no discernible reason behind it at all. He looks desperate to cross it, as though it's the only fecking way to play football. And that is - I fully agree - infuriating. Use your pace, gain some ground, seek out a player on the edge of the box - try something a bit more subtle: You're capable of it, you're not Downing, for feck's sake. Our other wingers are much less of a problem in this respect. They do vary their approach much more. Adnan - above all - is very likely to carry the ball with him, looking for an opportunity to beat a man and pass it short and low, rather than just crossing it endlessly and - sometimes - aimlessly.

 

[100]

I'm nearly sure Moyes played Rooney higher up at the beginning of the season and it's no coincidence that the results started to get better when Rooney was moved deeper to accommodate Welbeck further forward, although this stopped with the Spurs result. We play much better as a collective unit with Rooney dropping deeper, and it's a luxury Fergie had last season which was one of the reasons that ultimately led to the breakdown of their relationship. In order to keep Rooney happy, Moyes has had to sacrifice the ability to shift Rooney around quite a bit, although that seems to have changed recently.

 

[devilish]

Did Moyes say this?

Moyes is happy with the team.

 

[Ramshock]

Another is missing from action and another is not in confident form at the moment (hernandez). What I was trying to say with that response is that our insistence on crossing isnt the only thing we're "heavily reliant" (although I feel resort to this tactic more than depend on it) on.

Hernandez isnt a creator mate no harm to you. He is a finisher. Yes Kagawa could be an answer if Moyes would give him a fecking chance

 

[Gladiator]

Hernandez isnt a creator mate no harm to you. He is a finisher. Yes Kagawa could be an answer if Moyes would give him a fecking chance

Ye Rams. I cant imagine being Moyes right now. What a mess!

 

[Gladiator]

Part of the problem - and it was evident under Fergie too - is that we seem to cross mechanically too often, as though we had a target man in the box (which we don't and haven't had for as long as I can remember). The amount of entirely pointless crosses is too high. Valencia is the main culprit here. He whacks it in no matter what - sometimes there is purpose to his whacking, sometimes there is no discernible reason behind it at all. He looks desperate to cross it, as though it's the only fecking way to play football. And that is - I fully agree - infuriating. Use your pace, gain some ground, seek out a player on the edge of the box - try something a bit more subtle: You're capable of it, you're not Downing, for feck's sake. Our other wingers are much less of a problem in this respect. They do vary their approach much more. Adnan - above all - is very likely to carry the ball with him, looking for an opportunity to beat a man and pass it short and low, rather than just crossing it endlessly and - sometimes - aimlessly.

1000 thimes this. It really is infuriating. We know Tony V is a limited player but surely his football brain is more intelligent than what we're seeing.

 

[Ash_G]

1000 thimes this. It really is infuriating. We know Tony V is a limited player but surely his football brain is more intelligent than what we're seeing.

No one seems to call him up on it though. He's still seems to get in ahead of Nani, Kagawa when he imo tends to be far more wasteful. He gives width sure but he only seems able to use it against weaker teams/fullbacks.

 

[Gladiator]

No one seems to call him up on it though. He's still seems to get in ahead of Nani, Kagawa when he imo tends to be far more wasteful. He gives width sure but he only seems able to use it against weaker teams/fullbacks.

Like I said the other day, someone tweeted that if Nani had Valencia's performance against Tottenham, he would have been booed.

 

[LR7]

Even last season we were a lot more patient in our build up play. When we struggled to break down teams who defended deep we would pass the ball around outside their box until we found an opening. Crossing and set-pieces seem to be all we are about this season, and it wouldn't be so bad if our crossing was a bit more successful but it's largely ineffective. I don't think we lack the ability to play through the middle more than we do atm. Our wingers are all capable of linking up inside.

What I liked last season was our adaptability. We had a clear game plan and it differed from game to game depending on the opposition. At times we played on the counter, sometimes we played a high pressing game, sometimes we played a possession game, on occasions we controlled the game in the middle (using a diamond at times) and there were times when we hit teams (who play narrow) down the flanks (e.g. City, Chelsea away). We were adaptable, and changed the tactics on a game to game basis. I don't see much versatility in the way we are playing atm. It's cross, cross and cross some more and when that fails we simply keep crossing or hope for a set-piece.

I wouldn't mind seeing a wingerless diamond or Christmas tree formation or something that gives less focus on width and crosses. These players are capable of more.

 

[Cletus]

Aimless crap crosses of the Moyes era or today's approach?

I watched today's match thinking they're not even trying anything. At least getting into a position to cross is braver than not driving forward at all.

 

[adexkola]

Jaysus, for a second I thought Van Gaal said this.

We didn't even cross much against Sunderland. Our play broke down before we had an opportunity to cross.