"In midfield - we lack creativity. So crossing is the only way."

Gladiator

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Does anyone buy this? I don't for a second. I believe there was a stat last season about how we were 7th in league in terms of crossing. Feel free to correct me if that's not quite correct.

However, with relatively the same squad and taking that stat into consideration, how can we say that because of our midfield, crossing is the only way for us to attack? This isnt me saying we should even be playing more through the middle. You can overload the wide areas to create openings. Not just to cross the ball
 

Carl

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Why is it in quotes?
 

Red Stone

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If our crossing was good this could almost be a valid argument, but I hate dealing in absolutes, so saying "the only way" rubs me the wrong way. Our crossing is dogshit, so playing through the middle surely can't be any worse? In fact, I'd say percentage-wise, the success rate of attacks through the middle this season absolutely dwarfs our success from crosses.

It'd be interesting to see numbers on how many attacks we've had down the different areas of the field and how many of them have resulted in shots, shots on target and of course goals. I'd also like to see what type of pass the final ball is for our attacks and the success rates of these.

Stat junkies, get in on!
 

RoadTrip

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Had this discussion in another thread. There is some weight to it but it's not the only driver. Last season we had RVP and Rooney who would occupy defenders more as they are world class and needed marking. It's easier to defend against us when only one is there. Also Carrick was on form and instrumental in balls through the middle. He hasn't been on form or fit so far. We still have players who should do it though. 6 of one and half a dozen of the other as Andy Gray would say.
 

dev1l

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This thread is much worse than our midfield....
 

Jacob

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There's a great article on SSN slating our tactics and style of play. They draw parallels between us and the likes of WHU and Stoke, indicating with stats how similar we are to teams that rely more on luck from crosses than skill through the middle. Thought it made a lot of sense, we have the highest amount of failed crosses in the league. Also, they found strong support to the contention that we've been playing through the flanks more often after Fergie's resignation. Basically, we're shit through the middle since we lack quality there, therefore we try to play crosses, those are shit as well for that matter.
 

Ramshock

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Jacob said:
There's a great article on SSN slating our tactics and style of play. They draw parallels between us and the likes of WHU and Stoke, indicating with stats how similar we are to teams that rely more on luck from crosses than skills through the middle. Thought it made a lot of sense, we have the highest amount of failed crosses in the league.
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Would not surprise me in the slightest. However if you looked at Fergies last few years we crossed just as much
 

Jacob

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Ramshock said:
Would not surprise me in the slightest. However if you looked at Fergies last few years we crossed just as much
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Actually no, that's not the case. See my edited post for the explanation. We're playing MORE through the flanks after Fergie.
 

finneh

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Of course not. Centrally we usually play four out of Carrick, Cleverley, Rooney, Welbeck, RVP in addition to either Januzaj or Kagawa that move centrally from the left.

That is more talent through the middle of the park that the majority of the League who do it successfully.
 

Gladiator

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Ramshock said:
We still relied heavily on crosses, especially since Ronaldo left and Scholes wasnt a regular/or retired
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We also heavily relied on individual bits of quality from our matchwinners to help us win games
 

The Neviller

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So it's a quote from a Caf poster? Certainly deserving of being placed in quote marks and a thread made for discussion.

What's with the flood of shit threads?
 

KingEric7

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Nah, I don't buy it. If you look back at 06/07 when we were playing some of the best football we've probably ever played, we still didn't have this super creative central threat on paper. Rooney was a worse player than he is now, Giggs spent his last season in predominantly wide areas, Ronaldo did the same (or played as a more orthodox winger at least), Scholes and Carrick were often deep and didn't consistently split defences, etc...

It's more the fact that the players looked single minded in wanting to attack and weren't constantly shitting it/playing it safe. We didn't habitually cut back on ourselves, hesitate or overthink, and instead created our own space in central areas regardless of whether we had a truly top class creative centre mid or 10. The entire team just operated better in central areas and stretched defences so as to make it a lot easier to break through. That instead of basically showing the opponent what we're going to do every time we get the ball.
 

AngeloHenriquez

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Theon said:
No big deal.

I'm just thankful Moyes didn't actually say this.
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Why? Do you think it's hidden from teams that we look to build most of our play from the wings? I suppose the only negative effect it would have is feck with our CM's heads... :lol:

In seriousness though, I can't disagree with the title that much, I realise it's tongue in cheek, but would you say it's horrendously wrong?
 

Gladiator

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Theon said:
No big deal.

I'm just thankful Moyes didn't actually say this.
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OH MY GOD! I just thought of that simpsons episode where they all have pitchforks and torches..that would be our support.
 

Gladiator

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KingEric7 said:
Nah, I don't buy it. If you look back at 06/07 when we were playing some of the best football we've probably ever played, we still didn't have this super creative central threat on paper. Rooney was a worse player than he is now, Giggs spent his last season in predominantly wide areas, Ronaldo did the same, Scholes and Carrick were often deep and didn't consistently split defences, etc...

It's more the fact that the players looked single minded in wanting to attack and weren't constantly shitting it/playing it safe. We didn't habitually cut back on ourselves, hesitate or overthink, and instead created our own space in central areas regardless of whether we had a truly top class creative centre mid or 10. The entire team just operated better in central areas and stretched defences so as to make it a lot easier to break through. That instead of basically showing the opponent what we're going to do every time we get the ball.
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Definitely. We even showed this in 07/08, 08/09 but to a lesser extent obviously
 

Theon

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Jaybezia said:
Why? Do you think it's hidden from teams that we look to build most of our play from the wings? I suppose the only negative effect it would have is feck with our CM's heads... :lol:

In seriousness though, I can't disagree with the title that much, I realise it's tongue in cheek, but would you say it's horrendously wrong?
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Nah, our reliance on the flanks is definitely an issue but for Moyes to come out and say this would imply its an intentional tactic and that he doesn't intend to try and play through the middle. Its the opposite of what everyone wants to hear, its just a cop out and smacks of a lack of ideas.

"We don't have Fabregas in the middle better give it to Valencia all game"
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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I buy it. Completely. How many goals/attempts have we had from any of our midfielder's? The fact that apart from Strikers (and defenders), Young and Januzaj are major scorers says more on this! If not for Rooney dropping in deep, they would have been completely useless.

Goals tally of this season from wiki. Quite pathetic from the midfield, I should say...

Evra - 2
Jones - 2
Smalling - 2
Fabio - 1

Rooney - 11
Hernandez - 4
Wellbeck - 8
RvP - 10

Nani - 1
Young - 2
Valencia - 3
Januzaj - 3

Cleverly - 1

Own Goals - 3
 

Gladiator

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Ramshock said:
And we still dont? We only had one maybe two against Spurs, one was banged up and the other is 18 years old
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Another is missing from action and another is not in confident form at the moment (hernandez). What I was trying to say with that response is that our insistence on crossing isnt the only thing we're "heavily reliant" (although I feel resort to this tactic more than depend on it) on.
 

Gladiator

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Absolute Fruit Cake said:
I buy it. Completely. How many goals/attempts have we had from any of our midfielder's? The fact that apart from Strikers (and defenders), Young and Januzaj are major scorers says more on this! If not for Rooney dropping in deep, they would have been completely useless.

Goals tally of this season from wiki. Quite pathetic from the midfield, I should say...

Evra - 2
Jones - 2
Smalling - 2
Fabio - 1

Rooney - 11
Hernandez - 4
Wellbeck - 8
RvP - 10

Nani - 1
Young - 2
Valencia - 3
Januzaj - 3

Cleverly - 1

Own Goals - 3
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but even in past seasons our midfield return hasn been great. it didn mean we relied on crossing though. We're not making use of the central areas as good as we used to.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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Gladiator said:
but even in past seasons our midfield return hasn been great. it didn mean we relied on crossing though. We're not making use of the central areas as good as we used to.
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Midfielder's use central areas primarily. Then we have wide players like Januzaj, Nani & to an extent Young who cut in to provide threat from the middle. Now we only have Januzaj. With Nani never getting a run and Young injured, we only have Januzaj and it is unrealistic to see him play every game. So unless Moyes changes the whole setup, it will be more wingplay and crosses, imho! Without creative support from players like Nani & Januzaj, I think even Kagawa alone in the middle would amount to much.
 
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