India politics thread

[Bury Red]

This is a highly idiotic way of thinking by this guy. You need to convert money using PAN card in most banks or through your account. So even if you try to be clever, it will throw suspicion. It's not like people stand in the banks looking for people with suitcases of money.

Even if you get someone else to do it, you need to find 1000s of people who will be willing to take your money and convert on your behalf and even then, a previously unaccounted money which nobody knew circulated now comes into the system.

It's not foolproof but this guy seems to have his thoughts confused

I'd say he has a better idea of how the black market moves than the vast majority of people on here who seem to think Modi's masterstroke is an end to the black economy. The idea that someone can amass a huge amount of untraceable assets without a network of thousands of people who could be called on to cash it in for him in the event of an action like this is naive in the extreme, the idea that the bulk of it would not have already been laundered and converted into property, gold and offshore investments is similarly naive.

The large bulk of my involvement in India was after our local MD had managed to embezzle around 150 crore from the company accounts, that our auditors in Hong Kong had missed the fraud for 8 years means the tax man likely had no chance. We went in to secure the construction sites and weed out accomplices and ended up having to remove over 70% of the staff from drivers and security up to board level, at least 400 direct employees and his network extended much further than that. The bulk of his assets were held in property across India whilst most of the cash had disappeared over the years in smoothing all the dodgy transactions.

Maybe a few criminals will have lost a few percent from their ill gotten gains but those who are suffering most and who may lose almost all they had are the indigent, the illiterate and the rural poor masses who have next to no access to the banking system. It's not surprising that the middle classes in Delhi and Mumbai can't see this though.

 

[MDFC Manager]

I also don't understand why the government acolytes are guilt tripping people who are complaining about the continued inconvenience. The comparisons being laid out - "you can queue up for hours for a movie ticket but not for this" is just bizarre to say the least.

We've now also had multiple central ministers admonish people who dare to question the government. They need to show a bit more humility, the common man didn't ask for this inconvenience, yet is calmly bearing (in the vast majority).

 

[newgiz]

Yeah, but I tried exchanging my money in Sanchi, no cash. Ditto in Delhi apparently. Using post offices is a good idea but clearly the implementation is faulty.

On top of it, in Bhopal the server is down so cards aren't working.

I do agree that implementation could have been better. As a matter of fact they should have dispensed the new 500s first instead of the 2000s. Apparently the post office staff were being trained for this. However, logistical issues still seem to be there and cash supply to post offices has not been to the expected levels. We are a huge country. Its so hard. I am hoping things settle down by the end of next week.

 

[The Man Himself]

I also don't understand why the government acolytes are guilt tripping people who are complaining about the continued inconvenience. The comparisons being laid out - "you can queue up for hours for a movie ticket but not for this" is just bizarre to say the least.

We've now also had multiple central ministers admonish people who dare to question the government. They need to show a bit more humility, the common man didn't ask for this inconvenience, yet is calmly bearing (in the vast majority).

But that's the point. Common man and majority are not complaining. Nobody is saying there is no inconvenience as well. Govt themselves are saying that it was anticipated but with the secrecy factor they couldn't make it public earlier.

It is about the opposition and their acolytes actually who are hiding behind the inconvenience to common man when everyone knows why opposition parties are actually worried.

 

[Varun]

I'd say he has a better idea of how the black market moves than the vast majority of people on here who seem to think Modi's masterstroke is an end to the black economy. The idea that someone can amass a huge amount of untraceable assets without a network of thousands of people who could be called on to cash it in for him in the event of an action like this is naive in the extreme, the idea that the bulk of it would not have already been laundered and converted into property, gold and offshore investments is similarly naive.

The large bulk of my involvement in India was after our local MD had managed to embezzle around 150 crore from the company accounts, that our auditors in Hong Kong had missed the fraud for 8 years means the tax man likely had no chance. We went in to secure the construction sites and weed out accomplices and ended up having to remove over 70% of the staff from drivers and security up to board level, at least 400 direct employees and his network extended much further than that. The bulk of his assets were held in property across India whilst most of the cash had disappeared over the years in smoothing all the dodgy transactions.

Maybe a few criminals will have lost a few percent from their ill gotten gains but those who are suffering most and who may lose almost all they had are the indigent, the illiterate and the rural poor masses who have next to no access to the banking system. It's not surprising that the middle classes in Delhi and Mumbai can't see this though.

You're really coming across as not very clued up about the topic. Its understandable and I don't blame you but perhaps you should read up on it a bit before posting with such conviction.

 

[Moonred]

I also don't understand why the government acolytes are guilt tripping people who are complaining about the continued inconvenience. The comparisons being laid out - "you can queue up for hours for a movie ticket but not for this" is just bizarre to say the least.

We've now also had multiple central ministers admonish people who dare to question the government. They need to show a bit more humility, the common man didn't ask for this inconvenience, yet is calmly bearing (in the vast majority).

There are idiots like those everywhere. There is an inherent wish to look down on any other point of view than yours. Genuine lack of empathy everywhere and then there are these who are exaggerating the same inconvenience to make their point stronger.

 

[Varun]

People have cash at home, it's very common. You can deposit upto 2.5 Lakh without any problem from the income tax department.




Which is my point. Any black money would have long gone around in the form of investment, gold, real estate, etc.

Yeah, I know. I was talking about sums much greater than that. The boxes sofas stuffed with cash thing is very real even now.

They did in fact. See this link.

https://m.rbi.org.in/Scripts/NotificationUser.aspx?Id=10674&Mode=0

Rbi has been asking banks to dispense lower denomination notes since 5 May. Banks not following this is not their fault. Banks never thought something like this was coming. Can't blame the RBI for this!

Ah I see, I wasn't aware of that. Cheers!

 

[kps88]

I also don't understand why the government acolytes are guilt tripping people who are complaining about the continued inconvenience. The comparisons being laid out - "you can queue up for hours for a movie ticket but not for this" is just bizarre to say the least.

We've now also had multiple central ministers admonish people who dare to question the government. They need to show a bit more humility, the common man didn't ask for this inconvenience, yet is calmly bearing (in the vast majority).

It's in line with how they've dealt with any form of criticism/dissent since coming to power. Always on the attack with zero appetite for introspection or humility. Eg. - "you are with us or anti national", "go to Pakistan" etc.

Fair play, it seems to be working great from their point of view - energises their supporters and creates a chilling effect for those who oppose.

 

[Shiva87]

Ah I see, I wasn't aware of that. Cheers!

The problem is that we Indian's never think something will happen. It's a systemic problem. This step might just get some fear of government/governance back into Indians.

 

[Varun]

The problem is that we Indian's never think something will happen. It's a systemic problem. This step might just get some fear of government/governance back into Indians.

Absolutely. People will think twice before stocking up black money atleast in the form of cash from now. Hopefully, this is just the start and other steps are taken to take care of other forms as well.

 

[Varun]

Crores of rupees being found torn and discarded in garbage bins, rivers and roadsides

 

[Member 5225]

How is anyone complaining about this step?
An absolute masterstroke if there was one re: attempting to grapple black money/corruption in India.
Kudos to the conviction.

 

[DM07]

This country is a joke. A friend of mine just collected photo ids from 12 other friends. Called up the bank manager, went straight into his office without any wait, got 50000 changed into new notes.

All this while normal people were waiting outside the bank for 3 hours.

 

[Varun]

This country is a joke. A friend of mine just collected photo ids from 12 other friends. Called up the bank manager, went straight into his office without any wait, got 50000 changed into new notes.

All this while normal people were waiting outside the bank for 3 hours.

How does that make the country a joke? Do you think using personal connections or power to skip queues happens only in India? That's just a reality of life everywhere.

 

[Varun]

Actually, when it comes to banking. It's not even a case of using connections or power. Most burgundy/tier 1 priority customers of banks never visit the branch for any transactions as they have dedicated relationship managers who deliver everything to their doorstep. All these guys would need to do to get their money exchanged would be to call their guy, that's it. Perks you get when you give banks Crores of business.

 

[DM07]

How does that make the country a joke? Do you think using personal connections or power to skip queues happens only in India? That's just a reality of life everywhere.

The 'jugaad' system here is much worse than most places on the planet. I wish the rich would atleast have some empathy before walking into the bank and getting your things done in a few minutes when the poor are queuing outside for hours. But everyone from top to bottom is corrupt and into this system. I really really wish that the fight against black money was successful but having very closely seen Crores of money being converted into new currency using manipulations, this doesn't seem to be working at all.

 

[DM07]

Actually, when it comes to banking. It's not even a case of using connections or power. Most burgundy/tier 1 priority customers of banks never visit the branch for any transactions as they have dedicated relationship managers who deliver everything to their doorstep. All these guys would need to do to get their money exchanged would be to call their guy, that's it. Perks you get when you give banks Crores of business.

This is not a normal situation though.

 

[Varun]

The 'jugaad' system here is much worse than most places on the planet. I wish the rich would atleast have some empathy before walking into the bank and getting your things done in a few minutes when the poor are queuing outside for hours. But everyone from top to bottom is corrupt and into this system. I really really wish that the fight against black money was successful but having very closely seen Crores of money being converted into new currency using manipulations, this doesn't seem to be working at all.

Check my post above. It's not even necessarily jugaad when it comes to this. If you're a tier 1 customer, you don't need to visit the branch for anything.

 

[Varun]

This is not a normal situation though.

The bank doesn't care. If a guy who gives them huge business every month calls them to get money exchanged, they will take care of it. It's just business especially given your own product sold to then guarantees home service for every single banking activity.

 

[Varun]

The 'jugaad' system here is much worse than most places on the planet. I wish the rich would atleast have some empathy before walking into the bank and getting your things done in a few minutes when the poor are queuing outside for hours. But everyone from top to bottom is corrupt and into this system. I really really wish that the fight against black money was successful but having very closely seen Crores of money being converted into new currency using manipulations, this doesn't seem to be working at all.

Cmon man. If you could get your money exchanged from home or directly from the branch managers office, you'd stand hours out of empathy for others? It's just an unrealistic expectation given that its not a favour you're asking for, it's what the bank guarantees you because of the business you give them. It's the same in India, Kenya or US. It's ridiculous to call the country a joke because of it.

 

[DM07]

Check my post above. It's not even necessarily jugaad when it comes to this. If you're a tier 1 customer, you don't need to visit the branch for anything.

As I said this is not a normal situation though. All the work done for the big tier clients is a for profit operation.

But according to Government directives they are supposed to treat everyone equally in this situation, and not give an individual more than 4000 a day.

 

[Varun]

As I said this is not a normal situation though. All the work done for the big tier clients is a for profit operation.

But according to Government directives they are supposed to treat everyone equally in this situation, and not give an individual more than 4000 a day.

This service provided is for a profit operation too, the bank's not doing him a favour. If they don't give him the service he seeks now, he'll move his entire banking to another financier. Working in a bank, the amount of things banks do to pull customers from competition is absolutely incredible.

 

[DM07]

Also the friend who got the notes exchanged doesn't even have an account in the bank. Its the friend's friend's father who owns an account there.

 

[Witchking]

A lot people complaining in this thread about how black money will not be eradicated, how this is a step that is only causing inconvenience to the poor with their 500's and 1000's being nothing today. All bullshit. This step will not eradicate black money, it is a step among many which will help curb black money and counterfeit currency.

Till humans and technology exist, fake money and black money will exist. That doesn't mean just steps should not bee taken because the common man would be burdened, it should be taken to curb this menace and if the common man has to stand in the line to get his money so be it.

When people like Kejriwal, Mamta Banerjee, Rahul Gandhi, Kapil Sibal crib about any decision the government has taken, you an be assured that it will benefit the nation 100%.

Got this link on what's app where someone tried to explain the reasoning behind the 2000 note coming in to circulation.

http://indiaarising.com/chartered-a...r-kejriwal-currency-demonetization-must-read/

 

[Witchking]

Also the friend who got the notes exchanged doesn't even have an account in the bank. Its the friend's friend's father who owns an account there.

You should be ashamed of having such friends and having seen unaccounted money being converted closely and not doing anything about it and then coming to an online forum and complaining against the government shows what you are made of.

 

[prath92]

I'd say he has a better idea of how the black market moves than the vast majority of people on here who seem to think Modi's masterstroke is an end to the black economy. The idea that someone can amass a huge amount of untraceable assets without a network of thousands of people who could be called on to cash it in for him in the event of an action like this is naive in the extreme, the idea that the bulk of it would not have already been laundered and converted into property, gold and offshore investments is similarly naive.

The large bulk of my involvement in India was after our local MD had managed to embezzle around 150 crore from the company accounts, that our auditors in Hong Kong had missed the fraud for 8 years means the tax man likely had no chance. We went in to secure the construction sites and weed out accomplices and ended up having to remove over 70% of the staff from drivers and security up to board level, at least 400 direct employees and his network extended much further than that. The bulk of his assets were held in property across India whilst most of the cash had disappeared over the years in smoothing all the dodgy transactions.

Maybe a few criminals will have lost a few percent from their ill gotten gains but those who are suffering most and who may lose almost all they had are the indigent, the illiterate and the rural poor masses who have next to no access to the banking system. It's not surprising that the middle classes in Delhi and Mumbai can't see this though.

There are lots of people who have hoarded money. Politicians for instance who collect bribes. They generally fund colleges and stuff through which they legalise it (educational religious and charitable institutions have perks when it comes to taxation). It cannot happen in bulk but slowly and in instalments so as to not a

What happens now is they need to get it exchanged. They of course could get it through their employees but there are limits to that. In your example even if we assume that 400 employees converted 4000 per day for 30 days it still comes to only 5 crore rupees where many people have double or triple that amount. Plus it will draw suspicion when, say a driver, is converting 1.2 lakh when that's probably what he earns in a year but he has that much amount in cash. That will be possible because of the money entering into the system. Now there would be a trail for the money and it can be attributed to somebody.

As I said, it's not foolproof but it will be a big help in at least reducing unaccounted money in the country for a while.

 

[DM07]

You should be ashamed of having such friends and having seen unaccounted money being converted closely and not doing anything about it and then coming to an online forum and complaining against the government shows what you are made of.

I am not complaining against the Government at all.I am just telling things how they are.
And also I will be very surprised if you don't have relatives or friends who have manipulated their way around this.

What do you expect me to do? Complaint to the Government in a country where the rich buy everyone from the cops to the judiciary. This step is a good move. I have already said it. But unfortunately it isnt having much effect.

 

[Witchking]

I'd say he has a better idea of how the black market moves than the vast majority of people on here who seem to think Modi's masterstroke is an end to the black economy. The idea that someone can amass a huge amount of untraceable assets without a network of thousands of people who could be called on to cash it in for him in the event of an action like this is naive in the extreme, the idea that the bulk of it would not have already been laundered and converted into property, gold and offshore investments is similarly naive.

The large bulk of my involvement in India was after our local MD had managed to embezzle around 150 crore from the company accounts, that our auditors in Hong Kong had missed the fraud for 8 years means the tax man likely had no chance. We went in to secure the construction sites and weed out accomplices and ended up having to remove over 70% of the staff from drivers and security up to board level, at least 400 direct employees and his network extended much further than that. The bulk of his assets were held in property across India whilst most of the cash had disappeared over the years in smoothing all the dodgy transactions.

Maybe a few criminals will have lost a few percent from their ill gotten gains but those who are suffering most and who may lose almost all they had are the indigent, the illiterate and the rural poor masses who have next to no access to the banking system. It's not surprising that the middle classes in Delhi and Mumbai can't see this though.

Shows your company in bad light more than anything else.

 

[prath92]

@DM07 apparently spends like 5k on Internet alone. Fair to say he has a few hundred crores

 

[Varun]

Also the friend who got the notes exchanged doesn't even have an account in the bank. Its the friend's friend's father who owns an account there.

So? I can get money deposited in your account if you give me an authorisation letter along with a self attested ID proof. It's normal banking norms.

 

[DM07]

So? I can get money deposited in your account if you give me an authorisation letter along with a self attested ID proof. It's normal banking norms.

There was no deposit. There was just direct exchange of currency. All the ids used were of people who didn't have bank accounts in that particular bank.

 

[DM07]

@DM07 apparently spends like 5k on Internet alone. Fair to say he has a few hundred crores

Ha ha. Its only because of the ridiculously high internet rates in my city.

 

[Varun]

There was no deposit. There was just direct exchange of currency. All the ids used were of people who didn't have bank accounts in that particular bank.

Ah ok. An account isn't required to get money exchanged anyways so there's nothing to stop someone doing this exploiting his banking relationship with the bank. Depending on the business you give the bank, they'd be forced to say Yes to you.

 

[Witchking]

I am not complaining against the Government at all.I am just telling things how they are.
And also I will be very surprised if you don't have relatives or friends who have manipulated their way around this.

What do you expect me to do? Complaint to the Government in a country where the rich buy everyone from the cops to the judiciary. This step is a good move. I have already said it. But unfortunately it isnt having much effect.

You just called this country a joke for some bank customers getting benefits from their banks and complained about how this step is not working when your own friend is bypassing laws.

It is having effect, the majority will follow the rules and regulations and move on. This step is one of the many to CURB this menace, it cannot be ended. This step was required to wake up the hoarders and the counterfeiters.

 

[The Man Himself]

You should be ashamed of having such friends and having seen unaccounted money being converted closely and not doing anything about it and then coming to an online forum and complaining against the government shows what you are made of.

Haha calm down man. DM hasn't called it a bad move and people in our country or at other places try to get preferential treatment if they can. Reading it, it doesn't seem his friends are carrying black money, they just avoided queue taking advantage of knowing branch manager. Wrong thing to do? Yes particularly with possible low supply of cash. Asking him to be ashamed of it is stretching it.

 

[The Man Himself]

There was no deposit. There was just direct exchange of currency. All the ids used were of people who didn't have bank accounts in that particular bank.

You don't need account in a bank to get money exchanged from there. Anybody can get money up to 4k exchanged at any bank by showing valid ID.

 

[Witchking]

The 'jugaad' system here is much worse than most places on the planet. I wish the rich would atleast have some empathy before walking into the bank and getting your things done in a few minutes when the poor are queuing outside for hours. But everyone from top to bottom is corrupt and into this system. I really really wish that the fight against black money was successful but having very closely seen Crores of money being converted into new currency using manipulations, this doesn't seem to be working at all.

Haha calm down man. DM hasn't called it a bad move and people in our country or at other places try to get preferential treatment if they can. Reading it, it doesn't seem his friends are carrying black money, they just avoided queue taking advantage of knowing branch manager. Wrong thing to do? Yes particularly with possible low supply of cash. Asking him to be ashamed of it is stretching it.

The part in bold. If he did not mean what i think he meant, then i do need to calm down.

 

[DM07]

You don't need account in a bank to get money exchanged from there. Anybody can get money up to 4k exchanged at any bank by showing valid ID.

Yeah I know this. I was just pointing this out because it wasnt a case of preferential treatment to a customer. It was just an example of using your friend to get a preferential treatment.

 

[The Man Himself]

Pune Corporation has informed people that those who haven't paid property tax and water tax, can do so with old currency and also giving them waiver of 75% on the penalty amount. I forgot the number but it was decent one within 1 day of bringing out the scheme.

 

[Mani]

Pune Corporation has informed people that those who haven't paid property tax and water tax, can do so with old currency and also giving them waiver of 75% on the penalty amount. I forgot the number but it was decent one within 1 day of bringing out the scheme.

Chennai Corporation also did the same but I'm not sure about the waiver of penalty, this scheme is only till 14th Nov.