Things that we've done in the past that haven't worked out for us, thus shouldn't be attempted again:Yes, that has worked so well in the past.
Actually not a bad call. I could see that happening e.g. if Hag got sacked in March.It'll be Carrick won't it? Played 3 won 2 drawn 1 last time eh
That is redundant logic. It hasn’t worked, so it never will, so why bother? Meanwhile, let’s tank a season and reduce any slithers of morale to ash.Yes, that has worked so well in the past.
The problem is the midfield doesn’t work so sack the manager. Not following your logic.That is redundant logic. It hasn’t worked, so it never will, so why bother? Meanwhile, let’s tank a season and reduce any slithers of morale to ash.
Our midfield doesn’t work. The cure? Just stick with it, it’ll eventually sort itself out. No need to address anything.
But not being snarky for a moment, if Ralf is considered the epitome of it not working, Ole and even Carrick are examples of the opposite. The sample size is minute, so does/does not really remains to be seen, but you don’t just not try, and certainly not at the start of November.
The problem is nothing works, so sack the manager.The problem is the midfield doesn’t work so sack the manager. Not following your logic.
If that's the problem, change the midfield.
We sold Fred who was the legs and tenacity in midfield, bought Mount who doesn’t seem to fit, McTominay is playing well currently but basically not good enough, Casemiro is right out of form, Amrabat isn’t United/PL level and Bruno is streaky as hell.
Please tell me how sacking the manager fixes that?
This is the correct way. But people seem to think a shiny new manager will work. It won’t.We literally did this last time and the players knew he was an interim and couldn’t be fecked any more than they were under Solskjaer.
We need new owners and a new footballing structure before we bother getting a new manager.
The manager isn’t an issue.The problem is nothing works, so sack the manager.
You’ve answered your question: you make changes to address issues.
How long do you want ETH to be given and what do you think he will achieve?The manager isn’t an issue.
The owners are an issue. The football hierarchy are an issue. The squad balance is an issue. Individual players are an issue. Hell, even the fans are an issue but sacking this manager at this point would set us back so many years we would be in danger of rivalling Liverpools era of wilderness. That’s not what I want for our great club.
They didn't adapt to Ole or Ragnick either. I don't really blame our managers anymore. Our players are simply wasters.How do you know they refuse to adapt to his philosophy when no one even knows what his philosophy is
McKennas doing great at Ipswich and seems sensible enough to avoid us in our current state. Even if he did come in the only way it'd work I feel is if we absolutely cleared the deck of egos, as you can't imagine the guy has much authority at this stage in his career.I get why ETH is getting all the flack but what are his assistants doing? Surely they should also be hands on with the training? SM has experience, why are we not seeing more of him?
If we get rid of ETH, do we go with an upcomer like Mckenna? Give him time to lay the foundations for the next phase and blood youngsters? Carrick?
I don't really see anyone else who could lead the club forward apart from the usual names like Conte who would be here for 2 years and then we start all over again.
They played Ole ball. The issue was it wasn't a sustainable style of football, as ETH is finding out. After a season or so it gets found out and teams prevent the quick transition. Then we're out of ideas and the rest is history.They didn't adapt to Ole or Ragnick either. I don't really blame our managers anymore. Our players are simply wasters.
I don't think it gets found out. I think Ole tried to play more openly and it went terribly and snowballed from there and EtH is caught in a similar situation. I just think these players are quick to give up.They played Ole ball. The issue was it wasn't a sustainable style of football, as ETH is finding out. After a season or so it gets found out and teams prevent the quick transition. Then we're out of ideas and the rest is history.
Rangnick is a sample size of 1, doesn't mean that for eternity no one should ever appoint an interim.We literally did this last time and the players knew he was an interim and couldn’t be fecked any more than they were under Solskjaer.
We need new owners and a new footballing structure before we bother getting a new manager.
The problem is the big names have too big of an ego to ever be interim till the end of the season.I have a weird feeling that Conte would be a brilliant interim manager for us, he's always seemed to have an affinity for Manchester United and Manchester United players by extension, I can imagine he'd have some ideas with what to do with us. That said I'd rather keep Ten Hag than endlessly roll the dice, hopefully once we've got our defenders fit again we won't look quite as shambolic. Just need some bloody goals to go in.
I think he would struggle for the same reasons ETH is currently struggling. He's a disciplinarian - most of our wallies need an arm around their shoulder 24/7 and to be told they're amazing all day. Conte isn't the guy, imo.I have a weird feeling that Conte would be a brilliant interim manager for us, he's always seemed to have an affinity for Manchester United and Manchester United players by extension, I can imagine he'd have some ideas with what to do with us. That said I'd rather keep Ten Hag than endlessly roll the dice, hopefully once we've got our defenders fit again we won't look quite as shambolic. Just need some bloody goals to go in.
Jeez, his wife and one of his best friends have just died, SAF is in no shape to be taking on a job like thisIs there any one who commands respect, is half-way competent and doesn't invariably play the most abject (hello Conte) football possible? I mean, 81 or not, SAF's still lucid, not showing signs of significant mental decline from what we can see in short interviews . Heck- plenty of big academics still publishing at that age, dirty Rupe was still heading his media empire etc, so it's not necessary an impediment . If we're not going down the Bielsa route, then,... give it Sir Alex till the end of the season might not be quite as deranged as it appears on the surface
Short term answer is January. Long term would be the entire season. Both are decent points to take stock, but it’s of his whole time in charge, in context of all the crises and off pitch drama.How long do you want ETH to be given and what do you think he will achieve?
I understand your view but there again players are human beings. They are influenced by a toxic environment, they need to be kept on their toes and they tend not to leave for a job that pay less. I feel that we're reading the same script over again.I mean, every example player there have done absolutely nothing post United and their fitness has been shocking. Martial on loan was useless, Maguire was set to be sold, so Bruno is about the only one potentially worth his salt in that list. I don't think it's entirely their fault, but the list of players not worthy of the shirt is as long as your arm in the last decade.
I think there's no real analysis done as to what certain players would add to our squad, because Antony and Hojlund are the first attacking players we've bought that are pressers. Yet supposedly, that's where we we were heading in terms of style. Or maybe they think the one or two players will do enough and we can coach the rest of them, which never seems to be the case.
I am anti- Glazer and 100% supported ETH from day 1. But if we are being honest, both owner and ETH are the issues. It’s so plain obvious and so indefensible. Having spent 400m on players of his choice, and 16 months in with all the new coaching methods implemented, we are actually getting worse and worse. How can ETH get away from any responsibility leading to that? Doesn’t make any sense.The manager isn’t an issue.
The owners are an issue. The football hierarchy are an issue. The squad balance is an issue. Individual players are an issue. Hell, even the fans are an issue but sacking this manager at this point would set us back so many years we would be in danger of rivalling Liverpools era of wilderness. That’s not what I want for our great club.
I don't blame the managers either. I blame the people who appoint them and are unable to create a good sporting structure at the club.They didn't adapt to Ole or Ragnick either. I don't really blame our managers anymore. Our players are simply wasters.
I don’t think our players are fit enough to last more than 3 games under Bielsa.Give it to Bielsa til seasons end. At least we would score a few goals.
Not only that, but Hansi hated talking to the media and anything to do with one or more weekly press conferences. One of the reasons why he wanted the national job. Less of the "PR" stuff to deal with. As much as he hated dealing with the German press I think he'd hate the English press even more.I think most of the interims I want would rather be full-time managers.
Hansi Flick would be great as interim but I doubt he'd go for a temporary job.
Fair points, especially when their career is short, I suppose if you think you've made the wrong choice you get as much as you can our of it.I understand your view but there again players are human beings. They are influenced by a toxic environment, they need to be kept on their toes and they tend not to leave for a job that pay less. I feel that we're reading the same script over again.
A- A new player is signed probably on silly salary and fee
B- His enthusiasm to succeed is swiftly killed off by a toxic environment made up of incompetent fitness people, facilities that are dated if not vintage and players who lack the talent/motivation to succeed.
C- The guy is stuck to mediocrity were he clings dearly to a salary no one else will ever give him and at a club were accountability goes missing. The only time worth to show up is that year prior to his contract expiring as doing well under such circumstances will mean having money bags thrown at him which would then secure another 5 years of freeloading.
The funny thing is that SAF started his United career under similar circumstances. His solution was to carpet bomb the entire system, suffer the repercussions of it and then rebuild everything from scratch. At that point both new players and the few that survived knew that SAF wasn't going anywhere, that they had to perform on a regular basis or else they would be shown the door. I happen to have met a senior club official (not Manutd) who shared a story with me. A top player with drinking problems was spared from SAF's onslaught with the sole condition that he stopped drinking. The guy kept his side of the bargain only to return to his ways the day after he joined his new club (ie this club). Thus what changed the guy was not cuddles and hugs but the absolute fear that if he crossed the line then he would be on the way out and I assure you that the player's name is waaaaaaay bigger then any player of our present team. Gaz himself once described the fear he had after he had a bad game. There was no guarantee that he would remain a first teamer after that or he won't be sold soon afterwards. Thus he would spend the rest of the week with his head down, stay as far away from the gaffer as possible and do his absolute best in training. These days players go out to celebrate their birthday after an humiliating derby loss.Fair points, especially when their career is short, I suppose if you think you've made the wrong choice you get as much as you can our of it.
It’s not about Erik getting away with anything. For me, it’s kinda a ‘you made this mess, you sort it out’ scenario. I believe he is still our best option, presently.I am anti- Glazer and 100% supported ETH from day 1. But if we are being honest, both owner and ETH are the issues. It’s so plain obvious and so indefensible. Having spent 400m on players of his choice, and 16 months in with all the new coaching methods implemented, we are actually getting worse and worse. How can ETH get away from any responsibility leading to that? Doesn’t make any sense.
FixedSir Alex in for a short stint to expose our hypothetical players.
This quote always gets attributed to Einstein, but its actually from 1983 by a novelist named Rita Mae Brown in a book called Sudden Death“ The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results” – Albert Einstein
This squad of players refuse to adapt to Ten Hag's philosophy, why do you think that they would be arsed under another Ralf, when we saw how they spat him out?
I agree, I'm not wedded to it being Ten Hag who leads us there, but I am certain we need some definitive leadership on what constitutes the style of play and expected training levels/attitude.The funny thing is that SAF started his United career under similar circumstances. His solution was to carpet bomb the entire system, suffer the repercussions of it and then rebuild everything from scratch. At that point both new players and the few that survived knew that SAF wasn't going anywhere, that they had to perform on a regular basis or else they would be shown the door. I happen to have met a senior club official (not Manutd) who shared a story with me. A top player with drinking problems was spared from SAF's onslaught with the sole condition that he stopped drinking. The guy kept his side of the bargain only to return to his ways the day after he joined his new club (ie this club). Thus what changed the guy was not cuddles and hugs but the absolute fear that if he crossed the line then he would be on the way out and I assure you that the player's name is waaaaaaay bigger then any player of our present team. Gaz himself once described the fear he had after he had a bad game. There was no guarantee that he would remain a first teamer after that or he won't be sold soon afterwards. Thus he would spend the rest of the week with his head down, stay as far away from the gaffer as possible and do his absolute best in training. These days players go out to celebrate their birthday after an humiliating derby loss.
United need to do break the cycle. We need to remove every single bad apple (including those who do not give their 100% in training on a daily basis) irrespective of any hit on and off the pitch. Unfortunately to do so you need deep pockets, a football structure that are best in class and a club which is fully focused on football success
