What do you mean by that?
International football beefs: who does your nation hate, and why?
- Thread starter Fortitude
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
I'm not sure - I'm not in the Netherlands now. From the newspaper I read, it seems Dutch people were a little bemused by the situation, and didn't really understand why the Argentinians were so riled up. They also disliked the inconsistencies of the referee, and seemed to blame the Argentinians for the match's nastiness more than the Dutch (at least before the penalty shoot-out).
I'm not sure how representative that is of 'the Dutch' though. Certainly for myself, I wasn't all that bothered by it. Poor refereeing sometimes maybe, and some bad behaviour on both sides, but I don't think that influenced the actual football of the match too much.
France.
What I said.
But do you mean by "it is Germany", what makes you write that?
England, Brazil and personally Italy and Spain.
EDIT: Going deeper at it, of course there's no hatred involved here, I just don't want them to win, especially at football. With Brazil it goes beyond and applies to any competition there might be, like if one day they set the "who can pee the longest" world cup, I hope they lose that one aswell.
But I've been watching brazilian reactions to our games and it's amazing how much they really want us to lose. They get so fecking angry, start throwing things and insult as if it was their own team losing, when we get to a goal or a win. And they do all of this in portuguese, so it's for their own viewers, not like they do it on purpose to attract argentinians to watch it.
Here we don't want them to win but we don't get that mad, it's like "ahh these brazilian feckers they're good" and that's pretty much it.
EDIT: Going deeper at it, of course there's no hatred involved here, I just don't want them to win, especially at football. With Brazil it goes beyond and applies to any competition there might be, like if one day they set the "who can pee the longest" world cup, I hope they lose that one aswell.
But I've been watching brazilian reactions to our games and it's amazing how much they really want us to lose. They get so fecking angry, start throwing things and insult as if it was their own team losing, when we get to a goal or a win. And they do all of this in portuguese, so it's for their own viewers, not like they do it on purpose to attract argentinians to watch it.
Here we don't want them to win but we don't get that mad, it's like "ahh these brazilian feckers they're good" and that's pretty much it.
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I really don't think that needs to be explained.
Ireland doesn't really have any rivalries that I'm aware of. Maybe Luxembourg after our most recent few games against them.
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Why? I'm personally a bit perplexed but maybe it's only @Cheimoon and myself.
Yeah, me too. I'm wondering what's special about Germany in this regard that makes the issue in question so unsurprising.
Thread reminds me of this classic scene
I'm half English, half Welsh but when it comes to football Wales & that fecking 'Red wall' can get in the bin.
I won't spoon feed you and it'll take too long to explain it all in detail. So hows about you two do a little bit of research and draw your own conclusions.
So we went from it doesn't need explaining to it's too long to explain and do your own research?
You don't see an issue?
What are you so afraid of? It's a simple question, surely there's a fairly simple response - if only a couple of keywords/phrases that indicate what you mean. Sure, I can look things up myself, but as you will have gotten by now, I don't see why you'd say this (and yes, I am familiar with Germany politics etc.), so I wouldn't be able to find your opinion if it's me doing the searching.
Not sure Germans care about England. I thought the big rivalry for them was the Dutch, though I could be wrong.
It's probably the most one sided rivalry in international football but yeah I'm definitely rooting for anyone but Argentina in these semifinals. Weird considering the amount of Argentinian players that play and excel in Mexico, seems like every WC we have an Argentinian in the squad.The amount of insults between Mexicans and Argentinians on twitter before the match was on another level
As Mexican, our biggest rivalry is with the USA... Lesser with Central American teams like Costa Rica or Honduras (although IMO, these have been exploited by the media).
But if you want some background, it may have started after the 1993 Copa America final Mexico lost v the Argies. Afterwards, Mexico has always struggled against Argentina and the only official victory in tournaments happened in the Group Stage of the 2004 Copa America with a free kick scored by Ramón Morales and a 1-0 victory.
Afterwards:
2005 Confederation Cup Semifinals - Argentina wins in penalties.
2006 World Cup Round of 16 - Argentina wins 2-1 after extra time with that infamous Maxi Rodriguez goal.
2007 Copa America Semifinals - Argentina trashes Mexico with a beautiful goal from Messi.
2010 World Cup Round of 16 - Argentina wins 3-1 with the Gonzalo Higuain goal in clear offside.
2022 World Cup Group Stage - Argentina wins 2-0.
Also, and this is a very personal opinion, but one of the huge reasons many Mexicans hate Argentinians is due to the racism/classism existing in Mexican society. Most Argentinians are white or first generations europeans descendants and that triggers many people believing they are arrogant (which indeed, some of them are) or higher status.
If you don't believe me, just read a typical insult in Facebook.
The rivalry against Argentina, IMO, has turned despicable and full of hate speech. A lot of racism, classism and xenophobia is fueled in social media, hence, I don't like reading them... These type of lashes can also be extended sometimes to other South American countries like Brazil or Uruguay.The amount of insults between Mexicans and Argentinians on twitter before the match was on another level
But if you want some background, it may have started after the 1993 Copa America final Mexico lost v the Argies. Afterwards, Mexico has always struggled against Argentina and the only official victory in tournaments happened in the Group Stage of the 2004 Copa America with a free kick scored by Ramón Morales and a 1-0 victory.
Afterwards:
2005 Confederation Cup Semifinals - Argentina wins in penalties.
2006 World Cup Round of 16 - Argentina wins 2-1 after extra time with that infamous Maxi Rodriguez goal.
2007 Copa America Semifinals - Argentina trashes Mexico with a beautiful goal from Messi.
2010 World Cup Round of 16 - Argentina wins 3-1 with the Gonzalo Higuain goal in clear offside.
2022 World Cup Group Stage - Argentina wins 2-0.
Also, and this is a very personal opinion, but one of the huge reasons many Mexicans hate Argentinians is due to the racism/classism existing in Mexican society. Most Argentinians are white or first generations europeans descendants and that triggers many people believing they are arrogant (which indeed, some of them are) or higher status.
If you don't believe me, just read a typical insult in Facebook.
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Twitter is worst, the insults are terrible from both sides.
All of them are CR or Madrid fans.To be fair my experience of twitter is every spanish speaking country has beef with argentina
i can tel you, he’s implying that German people are racist.
Must be a joke post surely?
Why would it be?
They've conceded one goal all tournament and it was an own goal. They've beaten Belgium, Spain and Portugal and drew with Croatia yet the English media and clearly some fans felt that a win v France all but guaranteed them a place in the final.
Genuinely don't see how facing a team with as formidable a record as that or in the form they're on is somehow any more of a great opportunity than had it been Portugal. It's just complete arrogance because their name is 'Morocco'.
It's more of a mixture from my experience across Scotland. Many of the most 'vocal' will fit that profile, I think the majority see themselves as both Scottish and British, while many see themselves as more Scottish than British - but tend to be less hung up on it as a badge of honour. It doesn't surprise me that Rangers fans are the biggest club contributors to members of the Tartan Army.
But that aside, I agree on the tribalism. Club rivalries have entrenched over the last generation, largely fuelled by the echo chambers on social media. And I think there are more fans who believe that the SFA/SPFL/media/random bogeymen are against their club.
I tried with him mate, don't bother.
Serbia for obvious reasons.
A weird one recently I feel like is Finland, we always get drawn in the same qualifier groups it feels like, and it's always between the 2 for the 2nd qualifying spot, and Pukki turns into the best striker in the world when he plays us. Before them for a while was probably Greece for a similar reason.
A weird one recently I feel like is Finland, we always get drawn in the same qualifier groups it feels like, and it's always between the 2 for the 2nd qualifying spot, and Pukki turns into the best striker in the world when he plays us. Before them for a while was probably Greece for a similar reason.
.
I just spent a minute pondering why Canadians would hate Serbia for 'obvious reasons'.
Then read your Username.
It's always nice to beat the Germans as 90 and 96 still hurt but this idea we are obsessed with them and desperate for their attention is laughable.
You might get a few old farts that still bang on about the war but most young people couldn't give a crap about Germany. Completely arrogant to suggest otherwise.
You might get a few old farts that still bang on about the war but most young people couldn't give a crap about Germany. Completely arrogant to suggest otherwise.
They've done well to get there, but if we did beat France and then Morocco the narrative would change again like it did in the last world cup. Southgate gets an easy draw again. How lucky is he to get Morocco in a semi final.
I'd rather united play Molde in a cl semi final than Real Madrid. It's common sense.
Everybody looks at the group stages and assesses there chances by what teams are in thier group. There's nothing arrogant about it.
Ha, yeah. The Canadian part would be USA even though it's kind of a forced/fake rivalry IMO. In terms of football, USA is much more with Mexico while Canada has been irrelevant so I feel like everyone was just kind of happy for Canada to do well recently.
I think we're similar in that we are both Dutch Canadians. I find it pretty surprising that you didn't know about a Dutch/Argentina rivalry. It stems from the 78 world cup, which had a lot of controversial elements, due to the poltiical situation in Argentina, who was host. Lots of underhanded things in the build up, a lot of things done to throw off the Dutch, their team bus took them on a tour of the city before the game, as an example. And then when it came to the game, typical argentines, they played dirty as hell. I think that's the basis of it, but they have met each other on a somewhat regular basis over the years, but this past game was probably the highest the tension has reached in a while, if not since 78.
Someone else mentioned this isn't a big thing in the Netherlands anymore, which could be, we're talking a rivalry largely based on one world cup 45 years ago. That, and when I am in the Netherlands it seems like there is a lot of infatuation/love for Argentina, I am assuming based on the Queen.
As for your last comment, why would that apply to the Netherlands more than any other national team? We had a good(not great) team this time, with a great team spirit and winning mentality, qualified well and played effectively in the tournament. We missed 2018, but were in the semi-finals in 2014 and finals in 2010. I think we are one of the most serious teams in world football, really don't get your comment.
Thank you for the explanation. The truth is that seeing the tone of many Mexicans on twitter it would seem that they were expecting a disputed match.
The Mexicans attacked a lot with the economy (Argentinian waiters in México?) and the Argentinians with the security issue, narcos, etc. And then Canelo understood what he wanted with the t-shirt issue on the floor and the insults continued for a few days.
The banter in social media/forums comes from long before Messi-Cristiano. I'm not saying it's exclusive to Argentina because Peruvians, Bolivians or Colombians also have their share.
I still remember Marca being flooded with Argentinians making fun of every defeat of Nadal, even when he was very young, and us when it was our turn with del Potro obviously
I knew about the 1978 final (hard to miss!
), I just don't think it still plays on people's minds. If anything, people might blame it on the Argentinian regime at the time, not on Argentina as a whole, and I don't think there is a current rivalry. (Although this last game might start one. )I didn't say that it applies to the Netherlands more than to other countries. I also wasn't commenting on the way the Dutch team approaches its games, or how serious international football is taken (very, I know). I was just saying (or just meant to say, anyway) that I feel like the way people in the Netherlands experience Dutch national games comes across more as a kind of festival than as something that might lead to strong rivalries or deep-seated anger.
Canada has no rivalry because it isn't a football nation, you need passionate fans to drive that rivalry, and they don't really have a ton of fans, let alone passionate ones. And the people who cheer for Canadian football are the ones that love the Leafs when the win one game and hate them when they lose the next game, these aren't invested people.
I understand your last point now, the Dutch are almost like the Brazilians, this tournament excluded. They usually have one of larger, more vocal, more visual fan bases, so they do definitely give that impression. I can't speak for how your average Dutch person is affected by a loss, would be curious to have been there this week, and see if the loss lingers, or if everyone just immediately moves on with life.I knew about the 1978 final (hard to miss!
I didn't say that it applies to the Netherlands more than to other countries. I also wasn't commenting on the way the Dutch team approaches its games, or how serious international football is taken (very, I know). I was just saying (or just meant to say, anyway) that I feel like the way people in the Netherlands experience Dutch national games comes across more as a kind of festival than as something that might lead to strong rivalries or deep-seated anger.
I am really confused as to why you've told me I'm wrong, and then quoted Baddiel confirming that I'm right in about 5 different ways across two sentences. It's a hope against hope, dare to believe it'll all work out even though you know it won't, laughing at yourself for having the hope even while unable to stop it surging, mickey take.
England, obviously.
but for personal reasons, I hate Denmark. Pricks. They’ve slapped us around numerous times the last few years and they ruined my Euro 2020 brackets by being good and ruined my WC 2022 brackets by being shit. feck Denmark.
but for personal reasons, I hate Denmark. Pricks. They’ve slapped us around numerous times the last few years and they ruined my Euro 2020 brackets by being good and ruined my WC 2022 brackets by being shit. feck Denmark.
If that's what you take from it then cool.
Quite bizarre that England would want Skinner and Baddiel to perform it at Wembley before the biggest game in England's history since 1966 given it's essentially about how shite you are, how hopeless you are and how ultimately your heart will be broken.
Got to admire that level of shithousery from whoever (presumably at the FA) tried to get them to play it live before the Euros final.
Also personally “it’s coming home” is funny, non English people taking the piss out of “it’s coming home” is funny, and the weird English overreaction to others taking the piss out of it is really funny.
So you honestly read those two sentences, and they scream out to you - yep, Baddiel is saying that the song means England are better than everyone else?